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a big NO for judas collins from me

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

I don't think we got O'Brien for nothing? I might be wrong but I'm sure we payed upwards of £300k for him? Makalamby i cant remember, but think we also paid for him too????

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£300k approx.

It cost £900k to bring in Zouma, Maka and Al O'Brien. This is in Hibs accounts for year ending 2008

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Originally Posted by c31

Hibs most successful manager in the last 19 years, can he be persuaded to return.

What would it take?

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Based on winning a Cup that Rangers and Celtic were already out of? Look at his WHOLE record. Winning a Cup does not make him better than Mowbray or McLeish.

I'd like us to appoint a manager who can get the best out of our (decent) squad rather tham moan and walk out cause he can't buy £2M players like Barry Robson.

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Originally Posted by 1875 NO 1

£300k approx.

It cost £900k to bring in Zouma, Maka and Al O'Brien. This is in Hibs accounts for year ending 2008

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So at least 500k for Maka and Sproule on a moped, Zouma was signed by Mowbray. Not too shabby an amount i think for the 6 pack to waste.:boo hoo:

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

So at least 500k for Maka and Sproule on a moped, Zouma was signed by Mowbray. Not too shabby an amount i think for the 6 pack to waste.:boo hoo:

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Very simplistic as ever.

No doubt that O'Brien was a disaster but 500k to replace how many millions worth of talent that we lost when he (JC) was there?

When we were offered 3 million for Thomson and Brown it was Collins who stood firm and said they were worth far more. We ended up with 6.5 million for them, which was partly down to JC and you reckon 0.5 million was a huge amount?

Our wages to turnover ratio seems to have increased recently and we're currently watching the most dire under-achieving Hibs team for many a year. That's what you call a waste.

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Originally Posted by RichH

Very simplistic as ever.

No doubt that O'Brien was a disaster but 500k to replace how many millions worth of talent that we lost when he (JC) was there?

When we were offered 3 million for Thomson and Brown it was Collins who stood firm and said they were worth far more. We ended up with 6.5 million for them, which was partly down to JC and you reckon 0.5 million was a huge amount?

Our wages to turnover ratio seems to have increased recently and we're currently watching the most dire under-achieving Hibs team for many a year. That's what you call a waste.

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It is a simple answer to a simple question? Hughes has had little to spend compared to Collins imho. £500k plus wages is an awful lot for Hibs to spend. I'd imagine if they were successful it would be ok, but god forbid if they were useless. Oh sorry i forgot they were.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

It is a simple answer to a simple question? Hughes has had little to spend compared to Collins imho. £500k plus wages is an awful lot for Hibs to spend. I'd imagine if they were successful it would be ok, but god forbid if they were useless. Oh sorry i forgot they were.

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You honestly think that bearing in mind the amount of players that were sold in JC's reign, with the transfer fee's they brought in and wages they saved, that JC was given great backing?

I agree that the guys he spent money on were poor as were most of his signings, but the vast majority of them were out of the bargain bucket. I can't understand why that was the case at the time when we're currently able to get guys like Miller and Stokes and as many 1st choice goalies as the manager likes.

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Originally Posted by RichH

You honestly think that bearing in mind the amount of players that were sold in JC's reign, with the transfer fee's they brought in and wages they saved, that JC was given great backing?

I agree that the guys he spent money on were poor as were most of his signings, but the vast majority of them were out of the bargain bucket. I can't understand why that was the case at the time when we're currently able to get guys like Miller and Stokes and as many 1st choice goalies as the manager likes.

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I think Collins was backed as well as he could have been, just as i think Hughes has been too.

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Originally Posted by RichH

You honestly think that bearing in mind the amount of players that were sold in JC's reign, with the transfer fee's they brought in and wages they saved, that JC was given great backing?

I agree that the guys he spent money on were poor as were most of his signings, but the vast majority of them were out of the bargain bucket. I can't understand why that was the case at the time when we're currently able to get guys like Miller and Stokes and as many 1st choice goalies as the manager likes.

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Money from the players who were sold largely went into dealing with historic debt. When you look at players from the bargain bucket, remember that Mowbray brought in Murphy, Shiels and Sproule for next to nothing. They did good work for us then were sold on at a profit. Collins's just wasn't good in the transfer market.

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Originally Posted by ballengeich

Money from the players who were sold largely went into dealing with historic debt. When you look at players from the bargain bucket, remember that Mowbray brought in Murphy, Shiels and Sproule for next to nothing. They did good work for us then were sold on at a profit. Collins's just wasn't good in the transfer market.

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:top marks In a nutshell.

Had Collins had a better knowledge of the markets in which Hibs could pick from, he'd have gotten a much higher standard of player than he ultimately did.

How exactly can people slate JC, he won us a cup. Yes thats not what its all about.

But he was a relatively new manager & Tommy Craig was supposed to mentor him and show him the ropes, I presume? Granted his signings weren't great but as far as I remember we weren't in that bad a position when JC was having us play this 'horrible football' etc. although if anyone has the stats I'd lvoe to hear them. JC gets far too much stick on here for what he done IMO.

Collins had some good idea, but it appears that he was a bit of a nutter, if you believe what you hear...and that press conference basically confirmed he wasn't the full shilling. Tommy Craig is simply an erse.

Collins also sold Sproule and although he tried to replace him with 'Ivan Sproule on a motorbike'...it's hard to forgive that unnecessary sale.

So, eh, no thanks to a Collins return.

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Originally Posted by Steve-O

Collins had some good idea, but it appears that he was a bit of a nutter, if you believe what you hear...and that press conference basically confirmed he wasn't the full shilling. Tommy Craig is simply an erse.

Collins also sold Sproule and although he tried to replace him with 'Ivan Sproule on a motorbike'...it's hard to forgive that unnecessary sale.

So, eh, no thanks to a Collins return.

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Well at least our current manager comes across as totally sane and sensible at press conferences, eh?:rolleyes:

Not only is the above patently untrue, it's extremely disrespectful to someone who, whatever you think of his managerial skills, only wanted the best for Hibs.

As has been said before, some of the comments on hear about John Collins are disgraceful. And some of them are coming from the same people who get all holier-than-thou if anything rude is said about the current incumbent.

I'd gladly pay Collins' fare here, after paying Yogi's taxi money.

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Originally Posted by khib70

Well at least our current manager comes across as totally sane and sensible at press conferences, eh?:rolleyes:

Not only is the above patently untrue, it's extremely disrespectful to someone who, whatever you think of his managerial skills, only wanted the best for Hibs.

As has been said before, some of the comments on hear about John Collins are disgraceful. And some of them are coming from the same people who get all holier-than-thou if anything rude is said about the current incumbent.

I'd gladly pay Collins' fare here, after paying Yogi's taxi money.

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Maybe you could pay for a mini-bus to bring him, Tommy Craig and all his duff signings back, excellent player, poor manager.:grr:

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Originally Posted by matty_fairnie

Has everyone forgotten exactly how pish we were playing by the time Collins left?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Hakim Sar

For me John Collins was a poor manager who made too many duff signings like morais obrien gattheusi donaldson joneleit makalambay etc

There were plenty occasions when he got his shape all wrong and you could literally see him standing looking at tommy craig saying 'what do I do here?'

Tommy Craig then went away to st mirren (courier scored with back heel in 2-1 loss iirc) and DIDN'T play with a right midfielder - one of the most shocking decisions I have ever seen someone in charge make.

both of them should stay far away from ER. hibs need an older leader, someone a bit more cynical and detached from 'the boys'

I'm probs thinking Bruce rioch Craig brown or probs someone like Lexi miller

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Originally Posted by Brooster

His signings were atrocious and we were murder by the time he left, I wouldnt take him back.

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Originally Posted by churchy

Surely this must be a major wind-up, JC was absolutely useless as were his signings, i don`t see any other clubs clamouring after him as a manager, as for Alex Miller if you want to drive even more fans away from over priced football then he is your man, why don`t we just go all the way and have Jim Duffy in charge of future transfers.

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Originally Posted by 1875 NO 1

correct

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:top marks

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Originally Posted by c31

Hibs most successful manager in the last 19 years, can he be persuaded to return.

What would it take?

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it would take a miracle. .....quite apart from the fact that returns are never, ever, successful, I doubt he and the tache would be bosom buddies.

Remember the player revolt? ..... and the tache's role in that? :agree:

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Originally Posted by matty_fairnie

:top marks In a nutshell.

Had Collins had a better knowledge of the markets in which Hibs could pick from, he'd have gotten a much higher standard of player than he ultimately did.

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In a nutshell? In the context of discussing whether JC blew a fortune of Hibs cash?

I think it's accepted that in terms of signing's made JC did a poor job but on the other hand surely nobody could argue that his stubbornness over what Hibs should accept for players being sold pretty much balanced that out certainly in terms of the balance sheet?

It's all very well saying the incoming transfer fee's were used to pay historic debts but, with respect, that simply enforces what a difficult job he had.

Tony Mowbray is always used as an example of a guy who was a master of the bargain bucket deals but I think it was pretty much literally hit and miss with him (unless Konde, Konte, Rudge, Morrow, Simon Brown, Hogg, Zibi, Dalglish etc. were signed by someone else) and who knows how much luck played a part? His transfer dealings at Parkhead do not suggest he was actually a wizard wheeler and dealer. He also had the luxury of bringing new players into an environment where a young talented but maturing squad was already in place.

Does anybody know the value of Zibi Malkowski's lucrative 4 year contract extension (given days after THAT semi?) was? I do hope the transfer fee's of Shiels, Sproule etc covered it!!

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Originally Posted by khib70

Well at least our current manager comes across as totally sane and sensible at press conferences, eh?:rolleyes:

Not only is the above patently untrue, it's extremely disrespectful to someone who, whatever you think of his managerial skills, only wanted the best for Hibs.

As has been said before, some of the comments on hear about John Collins are disgraceful. And some of them are coming from the same people who get all holier-than-thou if anything rude is said about the current incumbent.

I'd gladly pay Collins' fare here, after paying Yogi's taxi money.

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So you think that showing your six-pack to the players on day 1, and then conducting a press conference getting answers from a man eating an apple whilst passing off the answers as your own is normal?

Don't get me wrong, I liked Collins in some ways, but some of his apparent behaviour was rather 'eccentric'.

And I certainly did not get holier-than-thou about anything said regarding Hughes. I thought he was a bit of an eejit before he took the Hibs job and it loosk like that's been confirmed now.

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Originally Posted by RichH

You honestly think that bearing in mind the amount of players that were sold in JC's reign, with the transfer fee's they brought in and wages they saved, that JC was given great backing?

I agree that the guys he spent money on were poor as were most of his signings, but the vast majority of them were out of the bargain bucket. I can't understand why that was the case at the time when we're currently able to get guys like Miller and Stokes and as many 1st choice goalies as the manager likes.

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Totally agree with you, it was surprising how many fans think Collins was backed by Board - would take him back but doubt he would work with Petrie again.

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Originally Posted by Joe Baker II

Totally agree with you, it was surprising how many fans think Collins was backed by Board - would take him back but doubt he would work with Petrie again.

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He was backed as much as any other manager we have had recently. He wasted most of what he got, and wanted more than we could afford, so walked. All imho of course.

good manager, but spoke to some of hi ex players and said he just couldnt control the team.. rather someone non hibs related

IF for some mental reason we bring back another ex-player (and ex-manager anaw!) and IF forced to pick, I'd say Collins philosophy and thinking was the way forward. His implementation of that didn't work...however, he publicly got stabbed in the back by his "team" and still managed to win a cup IN SPITE of all that *****.

And lets no hear pish about how easy that cup win was...lets also remember he had the blessed yamoverload Stewart playing well (Whether you like or dislke the wee sneaky yamishbampot, Stewart played out his skin most of Collins earlier tenure, particularly against Aberdeen in the cup IIRC).

All that said...clean break time. Get a decent, proven manager. Spend some money on a key position as I Say. The manager, followed by keeper, decent midfielder and a solid scoring forward are all positions you must fill properly or regret it forever more.....

Dot know who the right man IS for the job but lets no hear sheite aboot the blessed Tony "Im off and **** you very much for the chance..good luck against hearts in 3 days" Mowbray....if anyone can call Collins a Judas, they can fire the same pelters at St Tony of Mowbray who did NOT win a cup.

MON THE HIBS

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Originally Posted by Earl of Currie

It would be good to see both of them brought back.

JC as Manager with Alex Miller as mentor/Director of Football.

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If we are talking a mentor, Sauzee with Billy McNeil as mentor would be the best way forward

Saw JC in the gym again this morning. He was sporting a very recent haircut and doing some of those stomach crunch things. If that's not conclusive proof that he's got an interview for the Hibs job coming up and is already preparing for his introductory meeting with the players, I don't know what is!

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Originally Posted by Bad Martini

IF for some mental reason we bring back another ex-player (and ex-manager anaw!) and IF forced to pick, I'd say Collins philosophy and thinking was the way forward. His implementation of that didn't work...however, he publicly got stabbed in the back by his "team" and still managed to win a cup IN SPITE of all that *****.

And lets no hear pish about how easy that cup win was...lets also remember he had the blessed yamoverload Stewart playing well (Whether you like or dislke the wee sneaky yamishbampot, Stewart played out his skin most of Collins earlier tenure, particularly against Aberdeen in the cup IIRC).

All that said...clean break time. Get a decent, proven manager. Spend some money on a key position as I Say. The manager, followed by keeper, decent midfielder and a solid scoring forward are all positions you must fill properly or regret it forever more.....

Dot know who the right man IS for the job but lets no hear sheite aboot the blessed Tony "Im off and **** you very much for the chance..good luck against hearts in 3 days" Mowbray....if anyone can call Collins a Judas, they can fire the same pelters at St Tony of Mowbray who did NOT win a cup.

MON THE HIBS

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Nail ,Hammer ,Head as usual BM :top marks

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

It is a simple answer to a simple question? Hughes has had little to spend compared to Collins imho. £500k plus wages is an awful lot for Hibs to spend. I'd imagine if they were successful it would be ok, but god forbid if they were useless. Oh sorry i forgot they were.

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Wage budget undeniably higher now than it was then.

Collins was great for us but his choice of Tommy Craig as assistant was disastruous and his resignation bitterly disappointing.

Not sure he would come back tbh

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Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Wage budget undeniably higher now than it was then.

Collins was great for us but his choice of Tommy Craig as assistant was disastruous and his resignation bitterly disappointing.

Not sure he would come back tbh

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Who did Hughes waste £500k on? Did any of Collins signings make us any money?

Mogga was blessed with an excellent squad and at times had them playing great football .... But no plan B when required, which was proved at West Brom.

Collins:

This is the guy who played Kevin McCann at CH against Aberdeen at Pittodrie against a centre forward who always gave Rob Jones problems in the air.

This is the guy who took the same team who won the league cup to Hampden a few weeks later and couldnt get them to score one goal against Dunfermline, thus losing us the chance to go up against the most rank celtic team in years as was shown in the final.

This is the guy who was so up himself that he couldnt see that the way to prove yourself as a manager is to get a load of average players to over achieve and not to ask the reputedly meanest board in football for squillions to spend and then walk in a huff when they said no.

John Collins ? ..... I would rather have Joan Collins.

Nae offence JC.

:bitchy:

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

Who did Hughes waste £500k on? Did any of Collins signings make us any money?

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Er... what I said is that the player budget Hughes had to work with was higher than the one Collins had - which obviously makes it easier to attract better players.

There are a few Hughes signings I'm unsure about, and in time we'll see how much the club wasted in paying decent wages for no good reason.

if your going by cups yes, if u go by win percentage and deilivering in the league then no.

collins could have been !! but failed to defeat dunfermline even thou he had to cracks at it. his signing were for the most part horrible and for me the game was far to patient with no direction nor bite.