Boy Racers 0 Road Safety 4

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;2243075]I never took the hump at all, all I was saying is tarring everybody with the same brush is rediculous. And making light of the fact 4 young boys have died like the title of this thread has is disgusting. There's alot of young people on the road will try and show off when they've just passed there test, but this article doesn't say anything about them speeding, pulling handbreak turns or any of that *****, but still the OP has jumped to the conclusion that because they're 17 and under that its "Boy Racers 0-4 Road Safety". Even if the article did say they were doing 100odd mph it's still a horrible thread title and a tragedy that 4 boys so young have lost there lives and still wouldn't have merited the pisstake title this thread was given.

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Sorry, I thought I had detected a hint of sarcasm in your original post, I'm happy to stand corrected.

From what I can make out you have two complaints about the post: firstly, jumping to conclusions as to what caused the accident;secondly, the poor taste of making light of their deaths.

I think it would be poor taste to speculate further, but if I was a betting man I know what my money would be on.

I agree it's not very nice to make light of an accident. Can you tell me why you emphasised the loss of "young lives". Does their age make it any more tragic?

This is becoming PC gone mad.

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;2243083]

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

I never took the hump at all, all I was saying is tarring everybody with the same brush is rediculous. And making light of the fact 4 young boys have died like the title of this thread has is disgusting. There's alot of young people on the road will try and show off when they've just passed there test, but this article doesn't say anything about them speeding, pulling handbreak turns or any of that *****, but still the OP has jumped to the conclusion that because they're 17 and under that its "Boy Racers 0-4 Road Safety". Even if the article did say they were doing 100odd mph it's still a horrible thread title and a tragedy that 4 boys so young have lost there lives and still wouldn't have merited the pisstake title this thread was given.

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Sorry, I thought I had detected a hint of sarcasm in your original post, I'm happy to stand corrected.

From what I can make out you have two complaints about the post: firstly, jumping to conclusions as to what caused the accident;secondly, the poor taste of making light of their deaths.

I think it would be poor taste to speculate further, but if I was a betting man I know what my money would be on.

I agree it's not very nice to make light of an accident. Can you tell me why you emphasised the loss of "young lives". Does their age make it any more tragic?

This is becoming PC gone mad.

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No sarcasm in my OP and no apology needed. I emphasised that it was the loss of 4 "young lives" as it's awful that they've lost there lives before they've even begun. But no, it doesn't make it any more tragic.

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;2243091]

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

No sarcasm in my OP and no apology needed. I emphasised that it was the loss of 4 "young lives" as it's awful that they've lost there lives before they've even begun. But no, it doesn't make it any more tragic.

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That's fair comment. From my own point of view, I'll get a lot more upset by the loss of a young life than someone who has had their shot.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

I'm guessing its about post count. Once you achieve 19,000+ posts you'll seemingly be able to get away with anything, no matter how distasteful:agree:

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rubbish - I've had plenty ticking offs and threads moved/deleted. Always said the post count is irrelevant too.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

I think there is a lot less harm talking about an accident in the Midlands,than if the boys had been local. I also think the thread might give people who have good reason to hate boy racers a chance to air their views.

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:agree:...or a chance for such types to reconsider trying to be Lewis Hamilton at 03.45AM

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;2243101]

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

I never said anywhere in my post that young drivers weren't the most likely to be involved in car crashes. However not all young drivers are boy racers, and in this article it says nowhere that they were speeding or doing anything else stupid. Which is why I think the thread title is in very poor taste and makes Toads came across as a bellend. As someone else has said, if Toads happens to have kids, and (touch wood they don't) they were to be involved in a fatal car accident then i'm sure he wouldnt want people on a message board reading a news article about it and deciding that due to them being 17 years old that they must have been a boy racer. 4 boys have lost there life far too young and the thread title is pretty much taking the piss out of this fact.

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

I never took the hump at all, all I was saying is tarring everybody with the same brush is rediculous. And making light of the fact 4 young boys have died like the title of this thread has is disgusting. There's alot of young people on the road will try and show off when they've just passed there test, but this article doesn't say anything about them speeding, pulling handbreak turns or any of that *****, but still the OP has jumped to the conclusion that because they're 17 and under that its "Boy Racers 0-4 Road Safety". Even if the article did say they were doing 100odd mph it's still a horrible thread title and a tragedy that 4 boys so young have lost there lives and still wouldn't have merited the pisstake title this thread was given.

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

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Old git with over 35 years driving experience here (and I watch too many police reality TV programmes).

While the articles don’t state if speed was or wasn’t a factor IMO its unrealistic to think that a car being driven at 30mph would have had a accident, where no other cars were involved (i.e. no head on) that would cause a big enough impact, against what looked a fairly standard garden wall, to kill all its occupants.

Poor driving conditions may have contributed to the accident but excess speed was undoubtedly the major factor here. There is the possibility that a stuck accelerator was the culprit but I think we all know the likelihood of that.

Danny_Hibee, I don’t really think what you’ve said gives a reasonable argument as to why restrictions shouldn’t be put in place. If that was the law then your family would need to buy a smaller car if they wanted you to drive, or like 1,000s of other kids you bide your time until the cost of insurance / the money you have available means you can afford to drive.

I started driving at 17, my 17 year old son passed his test a few months ago and he has bought a car. I can only assume my parents went through what I go through at the thought of him driving.

I cant think of anyone I know who hasn’t been touched by at least knowing someone who knows someone killed in a road traffic accident when they were a teenager. Some young drivers learn from that others unfortunately don’t. That will always be the case until young drivers aren’t allowed to drive.

For those who don’t know the difference in insurance. My son drives the crappiest wee car you have ever come across and for the minimum insurance he needs the cost is £1,200+ a year. I on the other hand have a high performance BMW with the absolute maximum [reasonableish] insurance for what I need and it costs me £214 a year.

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Originally Posted by Toaods

respect where due Mr Radge but you are quoting a broad ranging statistic, which I would surmise is taken from all reported accidents accross the board........this was not an ordinary accident.

This is also a football punters website where many things are cross-referenced to football and this board in particular is for non-Hibs related points of discussion, controversial or not. I'm not aware of any rules being breached.

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JC, see my response above to Mr Radge's post .

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Have to be honest Dave and say I'm not sure you've answered my point when addressing the ones made by Radge :confused:

I caused a pretty bad crash not long after passing my test though, thankfully and through sheer luck, there were no serious injuries.

Wish there had been now- might have earned my first thread on here. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by flash

I caused a pretty bad crash not long after passing my test though, thankfully and through sheer luck, there were no serious injuries.

Wish there had been now- might have earned my first thread on here. :rolleyes:

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Serious question here: how badly injured would a hun have to be after being savaged by a wolflike creature for it to be unacceptable to use that image as an avatar? :dunno:

I'm thinking that on the whole board there would be a very wide range of views, varying all the way from 'Even if he'd died it would be acceptable' to 'I'm morally outraged that anyone would want to make light of a dug biting a dumb animal whether or not there was any damage done'.

What saddens me on this board quite a lot is how often people are taken aback when they find out someone has a different opinion from theirs. It seems like they live in a world where there is an accepted order and anything that goes against what they believe is wrong. Therein lies madness (IMO).

Re. boy racers. I've always wondered why they are always scrawny, hatchet faced, insignificant looking young men, and what attraction driving too fast holds for them. Surely they don't see it as a way of redressing their physical inadequacies?

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Serious question here: how badly injured would a hun have to be after being savaged by a wolflike creature for it to be unacceptable to use that image as an avatar? :dunno:

I'm thinking that on the whole board there would be a very wide range of views, varying all the way from 'Even if he'd died it would be acceptable' to 'I'm morally outraged that anyone would want to make light of a dug biting a dumb animal whether or not there was any damage done'.

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My only concern was the subsequent health of the dug.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

What saddens me on this board quite a lot is how often people are taken aback when they find out someone has a different opinion from theirs. It seems like they live in a world where there is an accepted order and anything that goes against what they believe is wrong. Therein lies madness (IMO).

Re. boy racers. I've always wondered why they are always scrawny, hatchet faced, insignificant looking young men, and what attraction driving too fast holds for them. Surely they don't see it as a way of redressing their physical inadequacies?

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Re your last paragraph. It's probably similar to social lepers who spend all their time trying to stir it on forums such as this.

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Originally Posted by flash

My only concern was the subsequent health of the dug.

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Re your last paragraph. It's probably similar to social lepers who spend all their time trying to stir it on forums such as this.

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In what way?

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

What saddens me on this board quite a lot is how often people are taken aback when they find out someone has a different opinion from theirs. It seems like they live in a world where there is an accepted order and anything that goes against what they believe is wrong. Therein lies madness (IMO).

Re. boy racers. I've always wondered why they are always scrawny, hatchet faced, insignificant looking young men, and what attraction driving too fast holds for them. Surely they don't see it as a way of redressing their physical inadequacies?

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What saddens me is how a thread can be started mocking victims of an accident and people are defending it under so many different guises. FFS the outrage expressed by so many on this board covering everything from songs to posts on Keekback is worthless when we have a thread title mocking the death of four people.

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Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee

What saddens me is how a thread can be started mocking victims of an accident and people are defending it under so many different guises. FFS the outrage expressed by so many on this board covering everything from songs to posts on Keekback is worthless when we have a thread title mocking the death of four people.

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What is the point in newspapers publishing stories if we aren't allowed to discuss them? You are entitled to your opinion though.

For me, this makes a pleasant change from all those hollow RIP threads that appear in memory of people that nobody ever met. It seems to me that one form of poor taste - excessive, or meaningless sentimentality is OK, but another form isnt.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

In what way?

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Well it seems to me that this branch of the forum in particular seems to be inundated with posts purely calculated to cause offence and presumably try to make the poster look clever.

Surely the actions of a social inadequate no?

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Agree that there is that difference, but Darwin Awards are nevertheless making light of sudden accidental death, and no doubt the relatives of Darwin Award winners grieve just as painfully as other bereaved people do. It seems slightly contradictory to me to be comfortable with the one and not the other.

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The Darwin Awards look, and laugh, at the circumstances of the death which in most cases are utterly unbelievable and often funny.

There is nothing remotely funny or sadly, unbelievable, at a young driver killing himself, his brother and 2 pals in an early Saturday morning road accident.

I haven't ever seen the Darwin Awards describe the death of a group of people as 4 - 0, as if it's something which should be celebrated, a kind of triumph.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

What is the point in newspapers publishing stories if we aren't allowed to discuss them? You are entitled to your opinion though.

For me, this makes a pleasant change from all those hollow RIP threads that appear in memory of people that nobody ever met. It seems to me that one form of poor taste - excessive, or meaningless sentimentality is OK, but another form isnt.

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But no-one has responded to this story with excessive sentimentality, mawkishness or insincere R.I.P.s.

Just alot of people who are slightly baffled, surprised or mildly disturbed that someone would hear of an event in which four teenage boys have died and immediately respond with a gloating thread title such as 'Boy Racers 0 - 4 Road Safety'. It borders on nihilism.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

What is the point in newspapers publishing stories if we aren't allowed to discuss them? You are entitled to your opinion though.

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I'm not sure there has been much discussion about the newspaper story, apart from speculation as to whether or not the deceased driver was speeding.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

It seems to me that one form of poor taste - excessive, or meaningless sentimentality is OK, but another form isnt.

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Yes, that is indeed the case. And so it should be.

Posting RIP and "My thoughts are with the family" when some celebrity dies is harmless. It might irritate a few intolerant individuals, but it doesn't hurt or offend anyone.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

For me, this makes a pleasant change from all those hollow RIP threads that appear in memory of people that nobody ever met. It seems to me that one form of poor taste - excessive, or meaningless sentimentality is OK, but another form isnt.

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:confused:Theres nothing hypocritical in finding one thing in bad taste and another thing not in bad taste, as you seem to be implying.

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Originally Posted by Toaods

:agree:...or a chance for suchj types to reconsider trying to be Lewis Hamilton at 03.45AM

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There are several of us on this thread who have had fairly serious crashes within a year of passing our test. All boy racer related? Here's a hint: nope.

The driver may have driven through a pool of water and lost control, swerved to avoid an animal or plenty of other scenarios. A lack of experience doesn't just manifest itself in driving too fast.

If I was you though, I'd phone the Midlands police as they're still looking for witnesses.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

The Darwin Awards look, and laugh, at the circumstances of the death which in most cases are utterly unbelievable and often funny.

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This is what I don't get though. Death can be "funny" in the Darwin Awards, and it's ok to laugh at that kind of death. But deaths which are not "funny" have to be treated with the utmost seriousness, even though in both cases the same amount of suffering for the deceased and their loved ones is involved, and no-one here knows any of the people involved.

Mibbe it's just moi.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

This is what I don't get though. Death can be "funny" in the Darwin Awards, and it's ok to laugh at that kind of death. But deaths which are not "funny" have to be treated with the utmost seriousness, even though in both cases the same amount of suffering for the deceased and their loved ones is involved, and no-one here knows any of the people involved.

Mibbe it's just moi.

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I disagree with that.

I think it's natural to make jokes about death.

But no-one made a joke.

The OP posted what looked like a triumphal thread.

That's what isn't right in my book.

How would Soham Paeds 2 Cambridgeshire Police 0 have been received as a thread title in 2001?

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Originally Posted by Beefster

If I was you though, I'd phone the Midlands police as they're still looking for witnesses.

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doubt there'll be any(as usual), however on that street, I'm sure the CCTV along the way will give a few pointers.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I disagree with that.

I think it's natural to make jokes about death.

But no-one made a joke.

The OP posted what looked like a triumphal thread.

That's what isn't right in my book.

How would Soham Paeds 2 Cambridgeshire Police 0 have been received as a thread title in 2001?

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what utter codswallop, since when did the Soham Paeds become classified as being on the right side of the law? That ridiculous portrayal is simply an attempt to justify your viewpoint and vilify mine.

No doubt those leading the so-called 'PC' charge on this one have never / will never particpate in any reference to the death of Wallace Mercer as one example.

As a few on here have suggested, double standards glaring through when it suits........at least I'm consistent. :bye:

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Originally Posted by flash

Well it seems to me that this branch of the forum in particular seems to be inundated with posts purely calculated to cause offence and presumably try to make the poster look clever.

Surely the actions of a social inadequate no?

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I couldn't possibly say. I think that sometimes shock is a legitimate tactic to make people think about things and open up debate.

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Originally Posted by LiverpoolHibs

But no-one has responded to this story with excessive sentimentality, mawkishness or insincere R.I.P.s.

Just alot of people who are slightly baffled, surprised or mildly disturbed that someone would hear of an event in which four teenage boys have died and immediately respond with a gloating thread title such as 'Boy Racers 0 - 4 Road Safety'. It borders on nihilism.

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I was talking in general terms, basically saying one person's idea of good manners might be something that others find offensive. I can't speak for the OP, I just want to defend people's right to challenge orthodoxy.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

:confused:Theres nothing hypocritical in finding one thing in bad taste and another thing not in bad taste, as you seem to be implying.

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Not really where I was going with my post. There is no "good taste" or "bad taste", just "personal taste". In the same way there are no good colours or bad colours. Therefore I think that all we can really do is state why we don't like a thing.

Let me stress, I find no pleasure in these youngsters' death. I can understand why someone could though.

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

I couldn't possibly say. I think that sometimes shock is a legitimate tactic to make people think about things and open up debate.
I was talking in general terms, basically saying one person's idea of good manners might be something that others find offensive. I can't speak for the OP, I just want to defend people's right to challenge orthodoxy.
Not really where I was going with my post. There is no "good taste" or "bad taste", just "personal taste". In the same way there are no good colours or bad colours. Therefore I think that all we can really do is state why we don't like a thing.

Let me stress, I find no pleasure in these youngsters' death. I can understand why someone could though.

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What?

I promised myself that there was no way I would get involved in this thread or even visit the Holy Ground forum again but that is absolutely ludicrous!

You can understand why someone would find pleasure in these young boys deaths? Get a grip FFS.

I'm saying no more so dont bother trying to reel me in to another ridiculous spat.

This is beyond decency IMO. Soon we'll have Abu Hamza getting freedom of speech on here.

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Originally Posted by Hiberni-mum

What?

I promised myself that there was no way I would get involved in this thread or even visit the Holy Ground forum again but that is absolutely ludicrous!

You can understand why someone would find pleasure in these young boys deaths? Get a grip FFS.

I'm saying no more so dont bother trying to reel me in to another ridiculous spat.

This is beyond decency IMO. Soon we'll have Abu Hamza getting freedom of speech on here.

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It's one thing to understand someone, it's another to agree with them.

Anyway I've said my bit on free speech and thought. I'll leave it to Toaods to explain what he is thinking.

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Originally Posted by Toaods

what utter codswallop, since when did the Soham Paeds become classified as being on the right side of the law? That ridiculous portrayal is simply an attempt to justify your viewpoint and vilify mine.

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I see.

Your post was taking the moral high ground on the right side of the law by suggesting that "Road Safety" had somehow scored 4.

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Originally Posted by Toaods

No doubt those leading the so-called 'PC' charge on this one have never / will never particpate in any reference to the detah of Wallace Mercer as one example.

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So called, by whom?

Personally, I haven't ever sung the Mercer song, but your comparison is flawed.

Mercer tried to kill Hibs.

The 4 teenagers that died, had no connection to Hibs at all.

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Originally Posted by Toaods

As a few on here have suggested, double standards glaring through when it suits........

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You should point these glaring double standards out. :agree:

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Originally Posted by Toaods

at least I'm consistent. :bye:

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Very true.

However, in your case, consistency is not

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

Let me stress, I find no pleasure in these youngsters' death. I can understand why someone could though.

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let me just say too, that I don't derive any pleasure from their deaths, I merely posted a link and a title with what I would surrmise the resultant enquiry will reveal.

Those who seem to be foaming at the mouth infer I am out of order with my wrong conclusions as they could have been an outside influence, ie wet road, dodgy brake, etc.

Will be interesting to see which way the mood swings if they are wacked out of their heads on drugs or were drinking driving after spending the night in some Brummie night club, god forbid it might even have been the two together. Has it been ascertained they weren't at fault racing some other mob who have made themselves well scarce? Maybe they were doing something similar to the whatever it is to South Queensferry cashline run, timed by a bank balance enquiry slip.

Time will tell...

(eneter list of reasons why it's probably not the driver's fault)

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

I think that sometimes shock is a legitimate tactic to make people think about things and open up debate.

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I agree, but where is the debate?

What debate could there possibly have been?

"Boy Racers are good for society."

"Naw theyre no."

I don't believe for a nano second that there was any legitimate tactic behind the OP.

Otherwise we'd know what is was by now.

Instead we get the usual dismissive PC brigade defence.

That's as bad as playing the race card, imo.

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Originally Posted by Toaods

let me just say too, that I don't derive any pleasure from their deaths, I merely posted a link and a title with what I would surrmise the resultant enquiry will reveal.

Those who seem to be foaming at the mouth infer I am out of order with my wrong conclusions as they could have been an outside influence, ie wet road, dodgy brake, etc.

Will be interesting to see which way the mood swings if they are wacked out of their heads on drugs or were drinking driving after spending the night in some Brummie night club, god forbid it might even have been the two together. Has it been ascertained they weren't at fault racing some other mob who have made themselves well scarce? Maybe they were doing something similar to the whatever it is to South Queensferry cashline run, timed by a bank balance enquiry slip.

Time will tell...

(eneter list of reasons why it's probably not the driver's fault)

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It was young guys, some still children.

I will be utterly surprised if they aren't found to have been speeding or drunk or on drugs.

But I don't find it a cause for celebration.

4 - 0 for Road Safety, my erse.

You should come to my work and voice that thought. Seriously.