Hamas attack on Israel

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Didn’t Biden say he had seen the evidence of it?

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He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

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An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth .

It’s in the DNA in that part of the world

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

He said he had it confirmed to him a photo of a beheaded child, whatever that is meant to mean probably irresponsible for him to say.

I don't believe 40 babies were beheaded at all. What clearly occurred was one of the worst terrorist attacks in our lives and it mustn't be downplayed because they are Jews. There's multiple videos of old people being gunned down and hundreds of kids at the rave.

I don't see how isreal killing hundreds of Palestinian children will ease the pain. It's just going to keep the cycle going

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It won’t, the same way that Hamas killing Israelis doesn’t ease Palestinians pain. However, it may well be the beginning of the end for Palestine unless somebody outwith the main protagonists comes up with a solution suitable to both sides. My view is it’s highly unlikely and the Israelis will do their best to eradicate all things Palestinian.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

It won’t, the same way that Hamas killing Israelis doesn’t ease Palestinians pain. However, it may well be the beginning of the end for Palestine unless somebody outwith the main protagonists comes up with a solution suitable to both sides. My view is it’s highly unlikely and the Israelis will do their best to eradicate all things Palestinian.

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I think so too. They have been trying committing genocide for decades and now they feel they have justice on their side. Even if Hamas went something else would pop up so the mission is pointless in that sense. The west has turned a blind eye for too long to feign concern now

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I think so too. They have been trying committing genocide for decades and now they feel they have justice on their side. Even if Hamas went something else would pop up so the mission is pointless in that sense. The west has turned a blind eye for too long to feign concern now

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The west has been complicit in the erasing of the Palestinians from the consciousness of the general public. Try and find Palestine on a map, it’s the enclave in Israel which is named the West Bank. Most people leave out the Occupied part. Hamas = terrorist= Palestine. Very few seem to report on the 75 years of occupation, terrorism, murder that Israel has carried out, that’s Israel who are nothing more than a murderous apartheid state. As recognised by many independent bodies, even by some Israelis .

Pretty interesting the times of Isreal had a poll and 70% want retribution for the terrorist attacks, which is to be expected although not genocide like they are doing imo. The surprising thing for me was 80% think Netanyahu for letting it happen, he could be gone next 🤞

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Pretty interesting the times of Isreal had a poll and 70% want retribution for the terrorist attacks, which is to be expected although not genocide like they are doing imo. The surprising thing for me was 80% think Netanyahu for letting it happen, he could be gone next 🤞

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I would imagine many Palestinians would want retribution for the oppression they have suffered under the Israelis. And the cycle goes round again.

Palestinian authority condem Hamas. At the same time Saudi Arabia say Hamas was funded by Iran and Qatar and there actions were wrong and done to undermine the Isreali Saudi normalisation deal. Saudi and Isreali normalisation talks set to continue, money talks

BethRigby
NEW: President of the Palestinian Auth Mahmoud Abbas & PM jointly condemn Hamas terrorism and stressed that Hamas do not represent the Palestinian people

Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

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I wish they would let the rest of the poor sods go, but sadly that's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Some good news as two hostages to be released.
If Hamas can start slowly releasing the hostages every few days it will stall any ground invasion. Cynical but will save a lot of lives as well.

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2 Americans…the day after Bidens visit…money might have done some talking here.

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/st...zWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/st...zWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

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This was on Ch4 News this evening. Very interesting. :agree:

what a very powerful speech from Matt Carthy of Sinn Fein https://www.facebook.com/MattCarthyS...K-AN_GK0T-GK1C

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/st...zWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

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They aren't impartial unfortunately they are part of al has based in Palestine it's pretty obvious from the report saying the Isreali occupying forces and concluding " we... reaffirm our solidarity with Palestinian people under attack, including our friends & colleagues"

Doesn't mean they aren't fair and I do like a lot of their work in finding Isreali crimes. But from what I'm reading on bellingcats reddit forum they have just dismissed looking at a falling rocket( that was filmed falling above at the same time) and looked for another a possibility. They say both artillery shell in their report, which doesn't explain the massive fireball. The picture they used of a 155 crater in Kharkiv to do there comparison if a mortar shell apparently. If it was a single 155 shell like they suggest only dozens would be dead, which could be I suppose

The main finding is it came from the east not west where the failed rocket took off, but I've seen this article shared in response that videos show the failed rocket did a u turn.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/18/gaza-rocket-hospital-blast-vpx.cnn

It could be Isreali hit with something small just as the rocket was falling. I'm not sure why Isreali would shoot one random artillery shell for though

France military intelligence has just come out and said the opposite to forensic architecture and that it was from 5kg of explosive, rules out Isreali artillery which is more than 10kg. They say most likely the failed rocket

https://www.barrons.com/news/french-military-intel-says-no-indication-gaza-hospital-blast-was-israeli-strike-946e673e


In undeniable facts isreal missed there target today, a military office. They narrowly missed an 800 year old church but destroyed a church outbuilding and killed 20 people hiding inside including 8 children
https://twitter.com/ChiefTrumpster/status/1715460482252095690

European military show more analysis on why they think it was the rocket misfire
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-e...ilitary-source

AFP this morning going with misfired rocket from data analysis
https://apnews.com/article/israel-pa...source=Twitter

Osints and military in the comments pointing out what I said, the image forensic architecture used to compare the crater wasn't from a 155 shell it was a Russian small rocket.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...62790805479663


Dozens saying rocket only al jazera and forensic architecture saying not rocket. The debate could have been ended hours after the hit though. Hamas by witness accounts took away the wreckage in the hours after. They just show what it is and that's it over, most of it will be there.

In an hour after the Ukrainian strike on the airfield that destroyed 20 helicopters this week, Russian showed the wreckage to prove America had infact sent ATACMS. Ukraine has done the same dozens of times they've shown destroyed Iranian drones and north Korean 155 shells.

Hamas can end the debate and just show the remains

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

what a very powerful speech from Matt Carthy of Sinn Fein https://www.facebook.com/MattCarthyS...K-AN_GK0T-GK1C

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If you were to listen to the commentators on the western media you could be forgiven for thinking that the Israeli- Palestinian conflict only began when Hamas attacked Israel on the 7th of October.
Fair play to Matt Carthy for his speech

Meanwhile, Israel does what Israel does in the West Bank and everyone looks the other way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67173344

‘The most successful land-grab strategy since 1967’ as settlers push Bedouins off West Bank territory

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory


"The tiny settlement overlooking the Bedouin village of Ein Rashash is named “Angels of Peace”, but, says Sliman al-Zawahri, its residents have visited only violence, fear and despair on his family.

This week the Bedouin community packed up most of their belongings and drove all the women, children and elderly people from the West Bank ridge they had called home for nearly four decades, perched above a spring and beside an archaeological site.

“They didn’t leave us air to breathe,” said Zawahri, 52, describing a months-long campaign of violence and intimidation that intensified in the last two weeks. First villagers were barred from grazing lands, and the spring, then violence reached their homes.

“They came into the village and destroyed houses and sheep pens, beat an 85-year-old man, scared our children. Slowly our lives became unlivable.”
...
This was not an individual tragedy. Men from Angels of Peace are part of a broad, violent and very successful political project to expand Israeli control of the West Bank that has accelerated, say activists, since the 7 October attacks by Hamas launched a war with Israel."

20 aid trucks get through the Egyptian border. Not sure why it's getting so much press surely it's a plaster on a gunshot wound

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

20 aid trucks get through the Egyptian border. Not sure why it's getting so much press surely it's a plaster on a gunshot wound

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The politicians held a press conference in front of the border gate.

I think it's just one of those pointless 'look at me' moments.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/st...zWvKx6DKw&s=19

Interesting new analysis of the hospital explosion.

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Just read this and in no way is this interesting. I’ve never heard of them but from the first few words you know which side they are supporting.

I’ve no interest in who hit the hospital as it was an accident either way. Best to focus on how to stop people firing missiles altogether.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’ve no interest in who hit the hospital as it was an accident either way. Best to focus on how to stop people firing missiles altogether.


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Funnily enough I was never bothered about Putin’s threats of WWW3 and all the escalation stuff but this crisis does.

Putin is stoking it all with Iran. Helps Russia and Putin in Ukraine and gives all the ‘hate the west’ extremists a chance to rise up.

Sooner there is a ceasefire the better for everyone

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

Funnily enough I was never bothered about Putin’s threats of WWW3 and all the escalation stuff but this crisis does.

Putin is stoking it all with Iran. Helps Russia and Putin in Ukraine and gives all the ‘hate the west’ extremists a chance to rise up.

Sooner there is a ceasefire the better for everyone

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I don’t think a third country will get involved here. Nobody has the military capable.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I don’t think a third country will get involved here. Nobody has the military capable.


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I can see hezbollah getting involved from the north and Putin pushing Iran to arm its supporters like the Houthi rebels etc.

The biggest escalation would be a direct confrontation between Iran and Israel.

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

I can see hezbollah getting involved from the north and Putin pushing Iran to arm its supporters like the Houthi rebels etc.

The biggest escalation would be a direct confrontation between Iran and Israel.

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I don’t think they will. They might exchange a bit of fire over the border but nothing that can’t easily be dealt with.
And I think the last thing Iran wants is to take on Isreal. The domestic situation there is delicate as it is. And they are too far away to do anything meaningful.


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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

Just read this and in no way is this interesting. I’ve never heard of them but from the first few words you know which side they are supporting.

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so you are only interested if they support the “ right” side?

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

so you are only interested if they support the “ right” side?

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I read it as preferring independent sources.

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

I read it as preferring independent sources.

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Me too.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I don’t think they will. They might exchange a bit of fire over the border but nothing that can’t easily be dealt with.
And I think the last thing Iran wants is to take on Isreal. The domestic situation there is delicate as it is. And they are too far away to do anything meaningful.


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Yup. If anyone wanted to join the fighting in a serious capacity they have had ample chances to do so.

Countries in the middle East are talk a great game when it comes to Palestine but have done next to nothing in practice to change the status quo.

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

I read it as preferring independent sources.

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Thanks, that’s what I meant.

A section of Gaza flattened yesterday if you think this is fair retribution for Hamas horrors then your an idiot, so many innocents gone

https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/stat...34574528250090

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

A section of Gaza flattened yesterday if you think this is fair retribution for Hamas horrors then your an idiot, so many innocents gone

https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/stat...34574528250090

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Unfortunately the actions of Hamas gave Israel the excuse it was looking for to eradicate the Palestinian presence in the Gaza Strip. That is their goal, and no one seems prepared to do anything about it. The world should be ashamed of itself.

Pretty sad that antisemits can't separate Jews from the evil Isreali government.

After a synagogue in Berlin was firebombed the holocaust memorial in Berlin is getting barriers put up to protect it from today's protest
https://twitter.com/MKuefner/status/1714970496171737333

Jewish synagogue leader murdered in Detroit, a historic synagogue in Tunisia was burnt to the ground, "killing Jews is a duty” spray painted outside a Jewish center in Carssonne in France, synagogue in Vienna was vandalised

In Barcelona a Jewish owned hotel was targeted at the Palestinian march. They ripped down the flag polls with different flags and put up Palestinian flags banners and blocked the entrance
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1715994170265907521

80 years after Jews were told to display stars on their clothes German integration commissioner Güner Balci recommend jews not displaying their faith for their protection.

How did we get back here
https://archive.ph/LtRbC
The Times
The Star of David has been spray-painted on several buildings housing Jewish people in Berlin amid a wave of antisemitic and anti-Israel incidents across Germany.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Pretty sad that antisemits can't separate Jews from the evil Isreali government.

After a synagogue in Berlin was firebombed the holocaust memorial in Berlin is getting barriers put up to protect it from today's protest
https://twitter.com/MKuefner/status/1714970496171737333

Jewish synagogue leader murdered in Detroit, a historic synagogue in Tunisia was burnt to the ground, "killing Jews is a duty” spray painted outside a Jewish center in Carssonne in France, synagogue in Vienna was vandalised

In Barcelona a Jewish owned hotel was targeted at the Palestinian march. They ripped down the flag polls with different flags and put up Palestinian flags banners and blocked the entrance
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1715994170265907521

80 years after Jews were told to display stars on their clothes German integration commissioner Güner Balci recommend jews not displaying their faith for their protection.

How did we get back here
https://archive.ph/LtRbC
The Times
The Star of David has been spray-painted on several buildings housing Jewish people in Berlin amid a wave of antisemitic and anti-Israel incidents across Germany.

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I’ve never understood that part of peoples brains. They complain about collective punishment of Palestinians (correctly) then practise the same thing on Jewish people.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’ve never understood that part of peoples brains. They complain about collective punishment of Palestinians (correctly) then practise the same thing on Jewish people.


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I think the one thing that binds us (from tribes in the amazon killing each other to here in the UK adults who were spitting and shouting at catholic kids going to school) is being horrible to people who are just like ourselves.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

so you are only interested if they support the “ right” side?

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Balanced opinions with evidence from OSINT

https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1716113399728218618

Who knew that terrorists are liars. Hamas says the Isreali rocket that hit the hospital car park devolved like salt in water. Munitions experts are today saying that is nonsense and the wreckage was removed. CNN and wall street journal come out and say their analysts confirm a misfired Hamas rocket.

This is on the media, BBC should be infront of OFCOM and leaders that reported it without proof should apologise.

It's a not needed deflection opportunity for Isreal. The focus should be on the hundreds of Isreali bombs that are causing the deaths of thousands in Gaza



Ny times
https://archive.ph/FUUtq

“The missile has dissolved like salt in the water,” said Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas official, in a phone interview. “It’s vaporized. Nothing is left.”
Salama Maroof, the head of the Hamas-run government media office, said in a text message: “Who says we’re obligated to present the remnants of every rocket that kills our people? In general, you can come and research and confirm for yourself from the evidence we possess.”

Twitter-what a scary place.

There seems to be a trend in the USA around putting up notices in public places, then seemingly waiting for people to remove them, film them doing so, post said film on twatter then accuse them of being Nazis and the like. Then they are being named, place of work identified and contacted, jobs being lost etc.

What do notices about kidnapped Israelis in urban United States achieve to begin with?

The cynic in me says it's almost like this is entrapment, being done to fuel the propaganda war that sits alongside the actual conflict.

I guess we should all be careful what we post on social media, thinking about the absolute flood of pro-Israel pish that is filtering into my FB account and the like

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Twitter-what a scary place.

There seems to be a trend in the USA around putting up notices in public places, then seemingly waiting for people to remove them, film them doing so, post said film on twatter then accuse them of being Nazis and the like. Then they are being named, place of work identified and contacted, jobs being lost etc.

What do notices about kidnapped Israelis in urban United States achieve to begin with?

The cynic in me says it's almost like this is entrapment, being done to fuel the propaganda war that sits alongside the actual conflict.

I guess we should all be careful what we post on social media, thinking about the absolute flood of pro-Israel pish that is filtering into my FB account and the like

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There is no doubt Isreal control the online space although when you actually speak to real people the sympathy mostly lies with the Palestinians, or is at least split.


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...edfd19e744.jpg


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There is no doubt Isreal control the online space although when you actually speak to real people the sympathy mostly lies with the Palestinians, or is at least split.


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Probably split

Which side in the Israeli‑Palestinian conflict do you sympathize with more?
Conducted 16 October 2023

YouGov surveyed 2574 GB adults
The Israeli side
21%
The Palestinian side
17%
Both sides equally
29%
Don't know
33%


I just don't know what Hamas were thinking. It's been a one way slaughter for decades. The murder 1400 Isrealis and a hundred hostages and a lot of people will feel whilst not agreeing with the carpet bombing, that Isreal has the right to wipe out Hamas.

It's the civilians of Gaza that will pay the price. Maybe Iran or Qatari influence, safe in there own borders.

Ridiculous that Isreal can try and take the moral high ground now

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Probably split

Which side in the Israeli‑Palestinian conflict do you sympathize with more?
Conducted 16 October 2023

YouGov surveyed 2574 GB adults
The Israeli side
21%
The Palestinian side
17%
Both sides equally
29%
Don't know
33%


I just don't know what Hamas were thinking. It's been a one way slaughter for decades. The murder 1400 Isrealis and a hundred hostages and a lot of people will feel whilst not agreeing with the carpet bombing, that Isreal has the right to wipe out Hamas.

It's the civilians of Gaza that will pay the price. Maybe Iran or Qatari influence, safe in there own borders.

Ridiculous that Isreal can try and take the moral high ground now

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From Hamas point of view they are probably thinking that they are slowly dying in Gaza anyway? They have no future under the present arrangements anyway?
At least now the world is now paying attention to them. And it’s not like going down the route of co-operation like the PA in the West Bank has shown to be the better option?
From Hamas point of view, this may turn out to be a successful operation.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Probably split

Which side in the Israeli‑Palestinian conflict do you sympathize with more?
Conducted 16 October 2023

YouGov surveyed 2574 GB adults
The Israeli side
21%
The Palestinian side
17%
Both sides equally
29%
Don't know
33%


I just don't know what Hamas were thinking. It's been a one way slaughter for decades. The murder 1400 Isrealis and a hundred hostages and a lot of people will feel whilst not agreeing with the carpet bombing, that Isreal has the right to wipe out Hamas.

It's the civilians of Gaza that will pay the price. Maybe Iran or Qatari influence, safe in there own borders.

Ridiculous that Isreal can try and take the moral high ground now

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It’s easy to do when the whole of the western world is on your side and Palestinians are “terrorists”.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

It’s easy to do when the whole of the western world is on your side and Palestinians are “terrorists”.

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What is the whole of the western world, people or govs. Hundreds of thousands in every major city in Europe came out to say they were in support of Palestinians this weekend. I think the vast majority don't think Palestinians are terrorists although most rightly will think Hamas are now. Oz is probably right in that more will now now what Isreal are, but the cost will be insane

As for governments they only act at the very last minute and if they have to, see Rwanda, Bosnia, Crimea. I'm sure if Putin took Kyiv in a week and put in a puppet the west will have dealt with them. It's pathetic but true, they have turned a blind eye on Palestinian genocide for decades

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

What is the whole of the western world, people or govs. Hundreds of thousands in every major city in Europe came out to say they were in support of Palestinians this weekend. I think the vast majority don't think Palestinians are terrorists although most rightly will think Hamas are now. Oz is probably right in that more will now now what Isreal are, but the cost will be insane

As for governments they only act at the very last minute and if they have to, see Rwanda, Bosnia, Crimea. I'm sure if Putin took Kyiv in a week and put in a puppet the west will have dealt with them. It's pathetic but true, they have turned a blind eye on Palestinian genocide for decades

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Isreal still seems to believe in a military solution to this and the only military solution that can work is genocide. Every thing short of that leaves them in the same situation.
Of course if they were to look for a diplomatic solution then lots of other possibilities open up. I don’t think that’s on the table now. Not when you have politicians round the world ready to get behind your genocide.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Isreal still seems to believe in a military solution to this and the only military solution that can work is genocide. Every thing short of that leaves them in the same situation.
Of course if they were to look for a diplomatic solution then lots of other possibilities open up. I don’t think that’s on the table now. Not when you have politicians round the world ready to get behind your genocide.


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Their population isn't accepting them not crushing Hamas fully now surely though, if they did without retribution as they see it, they would be worried it happens again.

The hostages being released would defuse the situation more than any other but I can't see it happening. I don't think Netanyahu is bothered about the hostages he wants a ground offensive that surely puts the hostages at most risk. I think it's inevitable and it'll be brutal on both sides.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Their population isn't accepting them not crushing Hamas fully now surely though, if they did without retribution as they see it, they would be worried it happens again.

The hostages being released would defuse the situation more than any other but I can't see it happening. I don't think Netanyahu is bothered about the hostages he wants a ground offensive that surely puts the hostages at most risk. I think it's inevitable and it'll be brutal on both sides.

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I pretty much agree with all that and when it’s done Hamas will still be there.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I pretty much agree with all that and when it’s done Hamas will still be there.


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Definitely unfortunately. Hopefully Netanyahu gets chucked and someone with more respect on life can come after

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Originally Posted by the Stairway 2 7

What is the whole of the western world, people or govs. Hundreds of thousands in every major city in Europe came out to say they were in support of Palestinians this weekend. I think the vast majority don't think Palestinians are terrorists although most rightly will think Hamas are now. Oz is probably right in that more will now now what Isreal are, but the cost will be insane

As for governments they only act at the very last minute and if they have to, see Rwanda, Bosnia, Crimea. I'm sure if Putin took Kyiv in a week and put in a puppet the west will have dealt with them. It's pathetic but true, they have turned a blind eye on Palestinian genocide for decades

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Basically it’s the agencies that have the ability to influence thinking on the issue, or can provide support, look at how much the U.S.A. gives in arms to Isreal. They say that those who control the media control the mind. I understand the feelings towards Hamas after their attacks but anyone who supports what the Israeli are doing now, and have been doing for 75 years, lack humanity. Isreal is an apartheid, murderous regime, it was before the Hamas attacks and is even more so now. Isreal does not care about international condemnation and is free to do as it wishes, when it wishes, because every time the UN attempt to censure them the U.S.A. vetoes any such motion.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I pretty much agree with all that and when it’s done Hamas will still be there.


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Im not so sure, I don’t think they will stop until Hamas is eradicated and that will also apply to any Hamas in the Occupied West Bank

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Im not so sure, I don’t think they will stop until Hamas is eradicated and that will also apply to any Hamas in the Occupied West Bank

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I don't think you can eradicate them, the more deaths the more martyrs the more people join up. Look at the full might of the US plus 150k UK and German soldiers in Afghanistan, taliban are still currently in charge.

Afghanistan was similar in that it was instigated following a terrorist attack, dead soldiers and locals kept coming after the chest pumping beginning until everyone was exhausted

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Im not so sure, I don’t think they will stop until Hamas is eradicated and that will also apply to any Hamas in the Occupied West Bank

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I don’t think you can kill the Palestinians desire for freedom with a gun.


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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I don't think you can eradicate them, the more deaths the more martyrs the more people join up. Look at the full might of the US plus 150k UK and German soldiers in Afghanistan, taliban are still currently in charge.

Afghanistan was similar in that it was instigated following a terrorist attack, dead soldiers and locals kept coming after the chest pumping beginning until everyone was exhausted

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Pretty much agree, there was a post earlier re the situation in the West Bank.

Where you have Palestinian families being murdered and rail roaded out of villages they've lived for generations by settlers, armed by the government for "self defence" (whilst security forces look on). Then even if Hamas IS wiped out, there will be a new round of survivors ready to take up the cause.

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

The only political party in the UK not supporting war crimes.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

The only political party in the UK not supporting war crimes.


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Sunak showing his usual lack of awareness and intelligence in any given situation, except lining his or his wife’s nest

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I don’t think you can kill the Palestinians desire for freedom with a gun.


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You can’t, but you can kill male Palestinians who would be likely to take up a gun. Or kill the children to prevent them growing up.Or kill the women who would give birth to possible future fighters.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

You can’t, but you can kill male Palestinians who would be likely to take up a gun. Or kill the children to prevent them growing up.Or kill the women who would give birth to possible future fighters.

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Which is why I said genocide is the only military strategy that would work here.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Which is why I said genocide is the only military strategy that would work here.


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I did mention earlier that I thought that would be the Israeli end game.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

I did mention earlier that I thought that would be the Israeli end game.

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I’m hopeful that while that might be the end game of the current leadership the Israeli people will be a significant break on that plan and at that point they have to look at more sensible solutions.


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Two more hostages being released. Hamas stalling the invasion.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’m hopeful that while that might be the end game of the current leadership the Israeli people will be a significant break on that plan and at that point they have to look at more sensible solutions.


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I think that is probably the main hope for peace, that the Israeli people get rid of Netanyahu and elect someone more conciliatory.

https://x.com/stone_skynews/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

This is good news. Biden continues to have a good presidency.


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The footage of the 85 year old Israeli hostage being released and shaking hands with one of the Hamas gunmen and saying shalom to him really got to me for some reason, it just seemed a moment of proper humanity in a totally mental situation.

Also interesting listening to her press conference where it sounded like, in terms relative to being captured at gun point, the hostages were treated fairly well. Food and medical care provided and a promise they wouldn't be killed.

In the grand scheme of things it's nothing but I suppose you have to take what hope you can in these situations.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

The footage of the 85 year old Israeli hostage being released and shaking hands with one of the Hamas gunmen and saying shalom to him really got to me for some reason, it just seemed a moment of proper humanity in a totally mental situation.

Also interesting listening to her press conference where it sounded like, in terms relative to being captured at gun point, the hostages were treated fairly well. Food and medical care provided and a promise they wouldn't be killed.

In the grand scheme of things it's nothing but I suppose you have to take what hope you can in these situations.

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Sounds braw getting hit with sticks at 85
CNN
Yocheved Lif****z, who was released by Hamas on Monday, told reporters on Tuesday that she "went through hell" in Gaza

"I was kidnapped on a motorbike on my side while they were driving toward Gaza," Lifschitz said. Her daughter explained how her head lay on one side of the motorbike while her feet dangled from the other.
"It was a painful act. They brought us into a gate. I was lying on the side on the motorbike. I got bruises because of the drive,"

After being slung over the back of a motorbike and hit with sticks, Lifschitz told reporters in Tel Aviv on Tuesday that she was taken underground.
"It was very, very difficult and unpleasant," a visibly upset Lif****z added

"I went through hell. They hit me in the ribs. It made no difference to them if they kidnapped elderly people or young people. They stole jewelry and a watch from me"

Her husband is still held by Hamas

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Sounds braw getting hit with sticks at 85
CNN
Yocheved Lif****z, who was released by Hamas on Monday, told reporters on Tuesday that she "went through hell" in Gaza

"I was kidnapped on a motorbike on my side while they were driving toward Gaza," Lifschitz said. Her daughter explained how her head lay on one side of the motorbike while her feet dangled from the other.
"It was a painful act. They brought us into a gate. I was lying on the side on the motorbike. I got bruises because of the drive,"

After being slung over the back of a motorbike and hit with sticks, Lifschitz told reporters in Tel Aviv on Tuesday that she was taken underground.
"It was very, very difficult and unpleasant," a visibly upset Lif****z added

Her husband is still held by Hamas

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I did clarify clearly that I was talking in very relative terms.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

The footage of the 85 year old Israeli hostage being released and shaking hands with one of the Hamas gunmen and saying shalom to him really got to me for some reason, it just seemed a moment of proper humanity in a totally mental situation.

Also interesting listening to her press conference where it sounded like, in terms relative to being captured at gun point, the hostages were treated fairly well. Food and medical care provided and a promise they wouldn't be killed.

In the grand scheme of things it's nothing but I suppose you have to take what hope you can in these situations.

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Sounds more like a good PR team excelling at turd polishing.

https://x.com/potus/status/171681052...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

A bit of me is thinking Isreal never mounts this ground campaign.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/potus/status/171681052...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

A bit of me is thinking Isreal never mounts this ground campaign.


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A “security expert” was interviewed on Al Jazeera news yesterday and he was of the opinion the Isreal would find it very difficult to beat Hamas in a guerilla warfare campaign on the ground. This is due, he reckons, to the labyrinth of underground tunnels and shelters which have been built over the last 17 years. He said they are so deep and fortified that they are virtually bomb proof against air attacks.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

A “security expert” was interviewed on Al Jazeera news yesterday and he was of the opinion the Isreal would find it very difficult to beat Hamas in a guerilla warfare campaign on the ground. This is due, he reckons, to the labyrinth of underground tunnels and shelters which have been built over the last 17 years. He said they are so deep and fortified that they are virtually bomb proof against air attacks.

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I think this is the best article I've read on the matter a number of opinions. It'll be possible as a siege but it'll cost thousands of lives on each side. Urban attacks are about as brutal as possible to complete for the attacker.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-eas...mobilewebshare

Taking Gaza Would Be Possible, Sieges From Mosul to Mariupol Show—but at a Steep Cost

Israel’s planned land campaign against Hamas promises to be destructive and bloody as urban warfare favors defenders

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It'll be possible as a siege but it'll cost thousands of lives on each side. Urban attacks are about as brutal as possible to complete for the attacker.

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Or as the armywallahs phrase things, 'very heavy on resources'.

The Israeli govt responses to the UN are jaw dropping. Any sympathy I had following the Hamas attacks is quickly draining. They are blinded by hatred. It's horrific.

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Originally Posted by DaveF

The Israeli govt responses to the UN are jaw dropping. Any sympathy I had following the Hamas attacks is quickly draining. They are blinded by hatred. It's horrific.

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There's also been a good few Israeli army/government spokespeeps that have launched into angry rants on radio/tv because interviewers have failed to be as gung-ho as they are themselves about strikes on Gaza. Hard to tell sometimes whether they've hated the interviewers or Hamas more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...ign_type=owned

More than two weeks later Sarwar gets round to commenting. Hope he realises that FM is a full time gig if he gets it.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...ign_type=owned

More than two weeks later Sarwar gets round to commenting. Hope he realises that FM is a full time gig if he gets it.


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I've seen him talk about it a few times. He was another one that believed the Hamas line on the hospital bombing

Interesting thread from the NY Times

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status...vwqPFCjqA&s=19

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

There's also been a good few Israeli army/government spokespeeps that have launched into angry rants on radio/tv because interviewers have failed to be as gung-ho as they are themselves about strikes on Gaza. Hard to tell sometimes whether they've hated the interviewers or Hamas more.

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It does seem like for some this is an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reclaim the whole of the Holy land as part of a religious mission.

Maybe because Netenyahu leaned on these kinds of extremists for support for so many years now.

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

Interesting thread from the NY Times

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status...vwqPFCjqA&s=19

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The first reply is best. An investigation that doesn't look at the blast site isn't an investigation. US, Canada, Germany, France and UK military intelligence could be wrong but they say the small crater was created by a small rocket around 5kg. Videos and audio are speculation satellite imagery is undisputed.

To be fair the thread does say it doesn't know what hit it but they should look at the crater. Hamas could just show the wreckage and end this in but they say it's the first ever missle to completely disintegrate. Just show what hit it Hamas?

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Originally Posted by 500miles

It does seem like for some this is an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reclaim the whole of the Holy land as part of a religious mission.

Maybe because Netenyahu leaned on these kinds of extremists for support for so many years now.

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I've seen a few articles from Isrealis saying Netanyahu propped up Hamas due to him wanting to degrade PA and Abbas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1717...637121084?s=20

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Originally Posted by ITV Political Correspondent

Blimey - multiple Labour MPs telling me that a couple of shadow cabinet members are considering resigning over Keir Starmer’s handling of the Gaza situation

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I've seen a few articles from Isrealis saying Netanyahu propped up Hamas due to him wanting to degrade PA and Abbas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tim...our-faces/amp/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

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Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Isolated politically and starved of any military support would be just fine, although unlikely.

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Originally Posted by grunt

https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1717...637121084?s=20

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Quite a few councillors have already resigned. Starmer has made a pigs ear of remaining loyal to Isreal and the zionists among them

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Support for isreal has slowly dropped over the last 15 years but I saw a poll last week that had support back up to 90s levels due to the attacks. This could be a temporary bounce though

Attachment 27333

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Isolated politically and starved of any military support would be just fine, although unlikely.

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A defenceless Israel would lead to the next holocaust, the hatred is such that there are elements amongst their neighbours that would happily see every Israeli man, woman and child have their throats slit.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

A defenceless Israel would lead to the next holocaust, the hatred is such that there are elements amongst their neighbours that would happily see every Israeli man, woman and child have their throats slit.

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There are elements among the Israeli’s who would happily see every Palestinian man woman and child have their throats slit. I would hope that the west would give the Israelis the support and help they need to avoid that scenario. Help they denied the Palestinians.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

There are elements among the Israeli’s who would happily see every Palestinian man woman and child have their throats slit. I would hope that the west would give the Israelis the support and help they need to avoid that scenario. Help they denied the Palestinians.

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I thought you just said it would be fine to starve them of any military and political support. My mistake.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I thought you just said it would be fine to starve them of any military and political support. My mistake.

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I did. However, that would be to neuter them as a force in the middle east. If another holocaust was on the horizon then that would require other considerations.

https://x.com/treyyingst/status/1717...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

2000 dead Palestinian children so far.


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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

I did. However, that would be to neuter them as a force in the middle east. If another holocaust was on the horizon then that would require other considerations.

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Another holocaust is on the horizon, it's only Israeli military force and external support that's stopping it.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/treyyingst/status/1717...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

2000 dead Palestinian children so far.


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70% of the dead in Gaza are women or children. That is some targeting of Hamas by the Israelis.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Another holocaust is on the horizon, its only Israeli military force and external support that's stopping it.

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I’m seeing a genocide on the horizon supported by Israeli military force and external support.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

70% of the dead in Gaza are women or children. That is some targeting of Hamas by the Israelis.

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I know it's Hamas figures including the 500 from the hospital, but how are women and children so high. I'd thought if you randomly chucked bombs it would be less and I've seen dozens of satellite videos of destroyed Hamas infantry vehicles and a 2 what are clearly military barracks.

The destruction in Gaza will undoubtedly have cost hundreds of children's lives though. Camps with facilities need built in the south if Isreal are going to indiscriminately flatten the North

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I know it's Hamas figures including the 500 from the hospital, but how are women and children so high. I'd thought if you randomly chucked bombs it would be less and I've seen dozens of satellite videos of destroyed Hamas infantry vehicles and a 2 what are clearly military barracks.

The destruction in Gaza will undoubtedly have cost hundreds of children's lives though. Camps with facilities need built in the south if Isreal are going to indiscriminately flatten the North

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Children make up more than half the population of Gaza.


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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

I’m seeing a genocide on the horizon supported by Israeli military force and external support.

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Me too and therein lies the problem. We have 2 opposing sides sharing territory who are mortal enemies. The only solution other than genocide is a political one but both sides are so entrenched in the belief that the land is rightfully theirs, that 70 years of mediation has failed. If Israel want peace they will have to compromise and if the Palestinians want peace they will have to accept the state of Israel. None of that will happen anytime soon. Even if both sides came to agreement, outside influences would ensure it all kicks off again.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Children make up more than half the population of Gaza.


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I had read that but I just read 26% are adult males. That's ridiculously poor targeting with mostly guided weapons, shocking. They need to be justifying their strikes more

Was going to answer on the Labour thread but better here.

I agree that they shouldn't be carpet bombing like they are but are people saying it should be a permanent and complete ceasefire. Surely that means Hamas regroup and get away with killing over 1000 Isrealis and what's to deter them doing it again.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Was going to answer on the Labour thread but better here.

I agree that they shouldn't be carpet bombing like they are but are people saying it should be a permanent and complete ceasefire. Surely that means Hamas regroup and get away with killing over 1000 Isrealis and what's to deter them doing it again.

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I doubt the 4000+ killed and the 16000+ injured think Hamas ” got away” with anything. Indeed, many might see it as retribution for the murder, oppression and brutality Isreal have visited upon the Palestinians over 75 years.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Me too and therein lies the problem. We have 2 opposing sides sharing territory who are mortal enemies. The only solution other than genocide is a political one but both sides are so entrenched in the belief that the land is rightfully theirs, that 70 years of mediation has failed. If Israel want peace they will have to compromise and if the Palestinians want peace they will have to accept the state of Israel. None of that will happen anytime soon. Even if both sides came to agreement, outside influences would ensure it all kicks off again.

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A never ending circle of violence and oppression seems to be the resultant scenario