Climate change and the impending apocalypse

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Modfather

By put me off I don’t mean I’m off out to buy more petrol because of this stunt. More that I’m less likely to support protestors in these instances than if they had chosen different targets. Not a great equivalence, but take terrorism. Obviously we don’t agree with their methods, but I could at least better understand bombing places of authority than hotels or stadiums to support whatever the cause is.

Cynically, I can’t help but think examples like yesterday are as much about the individuals 15 minutes of fame as it choosing the target that will have the biggest impact or best chance of producing productive results.

---

I’m not sure about that. When it come to attracting attention, that was up there. The imagery would have been exactly what they were looking for and it has likely been shown worldwide and shared a billion times on social media.
And it will fire up their other activists. A bit like PMQ’s or FMQ’s. On its own it doesn’t change many minds but it does fire up your mp’s or MSP’s if you hammer the other guy and also the other side are are depressed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Modfather

By put me off I don’t mean I’m off out to buy more petrol because of this stunt. More that I’m less likely to support protestors in these instances than if they had chosen different targets. Not a great equivalence, but take terrorism. Obviously we don’t agree with their methods, but I could at least better understand bombing places of authority than hotels or stadiums to support whatever the cause is.

---

What different targets would you suggest? This didn't hurt anyone, caused no criminal damage, delayed the game for what, 30 minutes? Snooker takes an interminable time to play anyway. But they got front page / headline coverage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grunt

What different targets would you suggest? This didn't hurt anyone, caused no criminal damage, delayed the game for what, 30 minutes? Snooker takes an interminable time to play anyway. But they got front page / headline coverage.

---

It didn’t just delay the other table for 30 minutes, the match with the orange powder wasn’t able to be played. They pulled up the divide so the fans who had payed good money could at least watch a match even if it wasn’t ideal as the table was on the other side.

In terms of better targets, parliament, offices of oil companies, block oil lorries etc etc

Snooker just seems like a weird target to me. Out of all the major sports (if it can be classed as that) it must have one of the lowest impacts on climate change.

Go target an F1 race or a football teams who fly to an away game that they could have easy bussed it to.

Or you know, an oil company……

Extinction Rebellion ‘guarding’ the London Marathon and in partnership for ‘clean air’ with the race organisers. Oddly inspiring.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-from-protests

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Extinction Rebellion ‘guarding’ the London Marathon and in partnership for ‘clean air’ with the race organisers. Oddly inspiring.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-from-protests

---

My immediate thought was "remember how the Hell's Angels provided security for the Stones at Altamont? How did that turn out?"

:cb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Extinction Rebellion ‘guarding’ the London Marathon and in partnership for ‘clean air’ with the race organisers. Oddly inspiring.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-from-protests

---

The right wing tabs are going to lose their minds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Extinction Rebellion ‘guarding’ the London Marathon and in partnership for ‘clean air’ with the race organisers. Oddly inspiring.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-from-protests

---

Is this not more about factional infighting between different environmental groups, given Extinction Rebellion's move away from direct action?

For a race that loves a bit of meaningless marketing fluff 'we run for clean air' reaches new heights/plumbs new depths.

It's an uncomfortable truth that many runners don't like to face, our sport has a significant climate impact, and as a Six Star major London has one of the biggest. It creates an unholy amount of waste and has a huge carbon footprint. Much of the latter can't really be reduced because the biggest contributor is runner and spectator travel. There is offsetting from London Marathon Events but offsetting is an imperfect solution, if it's a solution at all.

I can see why LME are keen to enter into this partnership if it protects their flagship event. I'm less clear on and just a tad cynical about the motivations of Extinction Rebellion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paul1642

Go target an F1 race

---

I think out of every single sport, F1 is the one that's done more for the sustainability of the Earth than any other, and likely by orders of magnitude. So that's a bit of an odd target. Although there was an attempt to do something at last years grand prix at Silverstone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

My immediate thought was "remember how the Hell's Angels provided security for the Stones at Altamont? How did that turn out?"

:cb

---

Four dead and many hospitalised, IIRC. Run of the mill for the London Marathon surely :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

My immediate thought was "remember how the Hell's Angels provided security for the Stones at Altamont? How did that turn out?"

:cb

---

I have no sympathy for the devil

https://twitter.com/emilyipsosscot/s...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Scottish public behind drs.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_Exile

I think out of every single sport, F1 is the one that's done more for the sustainability of the Earth than any other, and likely by orders of magnitude. So that's a bit of an odd target. Although there was an attempt to do something at last years grand prix at Silverstone.

---

There are two sides to this. 20 cars driving 200 miles at maximum speed every other week (plus qualifying and practices) , before transporting the cars and the teams (as well as some fan travel) to the next county must leave a pretty big footprint.

The flip side is that loads of innovation first designed for F1 use has filtered into the road car market making cars more efficient which is presumably what you’re referring to.

I imagine groundbreaking tech is more likely to come from Formula E these days however the sport just doesn’t have the same interest and investment as F1. I think that a switch to electric will be the future of F1 however no idea how long this will be.

There's now an East West divide in Europe on the carbon to get their electricity. Germany are closing nuclear power plants and the shortfall will mostly come from coal and gas. It'll be great when we're fully renewable but on days with no wind and rain we need power from elsewhere, nuclear is better than fossil fuels being burnt. Eventually storage will solve the problem.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulMainw...43682858012674

Paul Mainwood
@PaulMainwood
The West vs East contrast in Europe on carbon intensity of electricity is pretty clear now, driven almost entirely by use of coal. Germany’s recent decisions have driven it further into the “East” category. Noon today. Green shades <100gCO2e/kWh, brown shades >300

Some of the implications of profit first private water utilities in England that we are only now just discovering are just astonishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ter-manchester

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Some of the implications of profit first private water utilities in England that we are only now just discovering are just astonishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ter-manchester

---

Our Great British **** filled rivers should be a source of pride in Great Britain.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I found the new Space X launch and subsequent failure all a bit tragic for the environment yesterday.

We are imposing LEZ's in Glasgow and Edinburgh so that poorer people with older cars will have to pay to drive in to the centres of cities and people who are better off with newer cars don't have to pay, but a rich man can build a rocket, launch it, have it explode, shower the launch site with particulate and call it all a success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jones28

I found the new Space X launch and subsequent failure all a bit tragic for the environment yesterday.

We are imposing LEZ's in Glasgow and Edinburgh so that poorer people with older cars will have to pay to drive in to the centres of cities and people who are better off with newer cars don't have to pay, but a rich man can build a rocket, launch it, have it explode, shower the launch site with particulate and call it all a success.

---

Couldn’t agree with this more. As individuals we could probably all do more but in the grand scheme of things it would be a drop in the water conspired to the damage caused but mega rich corporations.

I try as often as possible to cycle to work to save taking the car for a 12 miles or so round trip but it really is futile when that one complete pointless rocket launch (does it count as a launch when it fails spectacularly?) has caused more damage than I ever could in 1000 lifetimes.

We can’t give up and say “what’s the point” but it really is depressing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paul1642

Couldn’t agree with this more. As individuals we could probably all do more but in the grand scheme of things it would be a drop in the water conspired to the damage caused but mega rich corporations.

I try as often as possible to cycle to work to save taking the car for a 12 miles or so round trip but it really is futile when that one complete pointless rocket launch (does it count as a launch when it fails spectacularly?) has caused more damage than I ever could in 1000 lifetimes.

We can’t give up and say “what’s the point” but it really is depressing.

---

I've put solar panels on the house recently, and according to the systems analysis the panels have saved us 443 kg's of CO2 since installation. I wonder how much CO2 went up in smoke yesterday?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Some of the implications of profit first private water utilities in England that we are only now just discovering are just astonishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ter-manchester

---

We had 10,763 reported sewage spills into Scottish rivers and seas last year. Staggeringly this also appears to be the case: "Scottish Water monitors only nine per cent of overflows, and is required to monitor just three per cent - while in England and Wales, 80 per cent are monitored, with plans to ramp up to 100 per cent by the end of next year."

As a fairly keen angler I've got nothing but contempt for both the privatised water companies and the seemingly indolent state-owned Scottish Water. As a tax payer it is just enraging.

Paying private sector rates for anything in circumstances where it could be provided as - or more - efficiently by either the public sector or a mutualised model is one thing, but paying private sector rates for a literally 5hite service is just grotesque.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jones28

I've put solar panels on the house recently, and according to the systems analysis the panels have saved us 443 kg's of CO2 since installation. I wonder how much CO2 went up in smoke yesterday?

---

You are enraged on another thread about something - politics I think? I almost posted a reply suggesting you get in line.

The UK is responsible for about 1% of global annual CO2 emissions. That means Scotland is responsible for about 10% of 1% of total global emissions. For that we are imposing quite a lot of cost on some of the most vulnerable people in our country and gouging huge chunks out of our public and private expenditure to tackle global warming.

Meanwhile unless China, India, Brazil, Russia and the United States make massive cuts to their CO2 emissions everything we do will not matter in the slightest bit. And even if they do take huge steps forward our contribution will essentially be so marginal as to be meaningless.

Musk is a twat. A loathesome one. We need to get off this planet though (and we need to stay on it at the same time too).

I wouldn't worry too much, the AI hyperintelligent machines are likely coming for us soon... and I for one DON'T welcome our new overlords.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One Day Soon

You are enraged on another thread about something - politics I think? I almost posted a reply suggesting you get in line.

The UK is responsible for about 1% of global annual CO2 emissions. That means Scotland is responsible for about 10% of 1% of total global emissions. For that we are imposing quite a lot of cost on some of the most vulnerable people in our country and gouging huge chunks out of our public and private expenditure to tackle global warming.

Meanwhile unless China, India, Brazil, Russia and the United States make massive cuts to their CO2 emissions everything we do will not matter in the slightest bit. And even if they do take huge steps forward our contribution will essentially be so marginal as to be meaningless.

Musk is a twat. A loathesome one. We need to get off this planet though (and we need to stay on it at the same time too).

I wouldn't worry too much, the AI hyperintelligent machines are likely coming for us soon... and I for one DON'T welcome our new overlords.

---

Get off this planet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One Day Soon

You are enraged on another thread about something - politics I think? I almost posted a reply suggesting you get in line.

The UK is responsible for about 1% of global annual CO2 emissions. That means Scotland is responsible for about 10% of 1% of total global emissions. For that we are imposing quite a lot of cost on some of the most vulnerable people in our country and gouging huge chunks out of our public and private expenditure to tackle global warming.

Meanwhile unless China, India, Brazil, Russia and the United States make massive cuts to their CO2 emissions everything we do will not matter in the slightest bit. And even if they do take huge steps forward our contribution will essentially be so marginal as to be meaningless.

Musk is a twat. A loathesome one. We need to get off this planet though (and we need to stay on it at the same time too).

I wouldn't worry too much, the AI hyperintelligent machines are likely coming for us soon... and I for one DON'T welcome our new overlords.

---

I'm not enraged about anything, thank you very much.

So it looks like you are in the camp of "theres **** all we can do so whats the point?" and you actually want off this planet and to live in a bubble world of Mars then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Get off this planet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Yes. Go to Mars, explore the possibilty of achieving rare mineral abundance from passing asteroids, a moon base, interplanetary exploration etc. There's a lot of technological advance and abundance to be had out there and it could help resolve a lot of our problems down here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One Day Soon

Yes. Go to Mars, explore the possibilty of achieving rare mineral abundance from passing asteroids, a moon base, interplanetary exploration etc. There's a lot of technological advance and abundance to be had out there and it could help resolve a lot of our problems down here.

---

You do realise that these colonies will be reserved for the super rich and the prostitutes they take with them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jones28

I'm not enraged about anything, thank you very much.

So it looks like you are in the camp of "theres **** all we can do so whats the point?" and you actually want off this planet and to live in a bubble world of Mars then?

---

"Bringing it back to the SNP, they have "must do better, C- "on their report card from me at the moment. I've drifted massively from politics in recent years because of the way Westminster politics has been, I just found myself getting angry."


You in your post #5820 of the SNP thread. Not enraged, just angry.

I didn't say there's nothing we can do, I'm just pointing out the numerical reality of what contribution we make to the problem and where the real opportunity to address it lies. The opportunity cost of doing this stuff is massive in a country currently struggling to deliver basic services so whatever we choose to do better be effective, high value for money and genuinely needed.

As for getting off the planet, see my post above. Clearly I don't mean that everyone should leave, its a figure of speech. The benefits of exploration and expansion into space will be enormous. If the machines let us that is...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One Day Soon

"Bringing it back to the SNP, they have "must do better, C- "on their report card from me at the moment. I've drifted massively from politics in recent years because of the way Westminster politics has been, I just found myself getting angry."


You in your post #5820 of the SNP thread. Not enraged, just angry.

I didn't say there's nothing we can do, I'm just pointing out the numerical reality of what contribution we make to the problem and where the real opportunity to address it lies. The opportunity cost of doing this stuff is massive in a country currently struggling to deliver basic services so whatever we choose to do better be effective, high value for money and genuinely needed.

As for getting off the planet, see my post above. Clearly I don't mean that everyone should leave, its a figure of speech. The benefits of exploration and expansion into space will be enormous. If the machines let us that is...

---

If you read the post that you just quoted back to me you'd understand that I USED TO get angry about politics so I have distance myself from it.

I think we all know that the individual contributions are a drop in the ocean but I don't feel we can afford to have that attitude any more, everyone needs to do all they can to reduce their impact on the climate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One Day Soon

Really? That's your go to?

---

Deleted the post, it was poor. Apologies.

Think people would be surprised how much co2 the uk has cut. Its down almost half from 2005 it's at its lowest point since 1850. It's lower than most in Europe too. If the tories and clegg hadn't pushed back from nuclear it would be even lower, I'm confident we'll get net zero in a few decades

Attachment 26676

There is no way of sustaining life on any planet we can reach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One Day Soon

We had 10,763 reported sewage spills into Scottish rivers and seas last year. Staggeringly this also appears to be the case: "Scottish Water monitors only nine per cent of overflows, and is required to monitor just three per cent - while in England and Wales, 80 per cent are monitored, with plans to ramp up to 100 per cent by the end of next year."

As a fairly keen angler I've got nothing but contempt for both the privatised water companies and the seemingly indolent state-owned Scottish Water. As a tax payer it is just enraging.

Paying private sector rates for anything in circumstances where it could be provided as - or more - efficiently by either the public sector or a mutualised model is one thing, but paying private sector rates for a literally 5hite service is just grotesque.

---

It wasn’t really a point about England v Scotland comparisons, I was aware that Scottish water monitors far less than England, but anecdotally the problem does appear to be worse south of the border in that more stories are emerging of individual spills that are a threat to life, as opposed to just ‘releases’ of sewage (which is permitted and in fact necessary after heavy rains-I am guessing that’s the 10,000+ figure you’re quoting). And I don’t think that’s because of any inherent superiority we have up here, it’s systemic because of the nature of profit motive when there’s no effective governance. The private sector shouldn’t be anywhere near water policy, it’s too important.

Edit- I suppose I mean water delivery, not water policy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jones28

Deleted the post, it was poor. Apologies.

---

And I deleted my reply to you quoting it because I didn't think it was fair to you for it to stay up after you'd deleted it. No need to apologise, all part of the rough and tumble.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-65263650

Two just stop oil protests jailed for 3 years and 2 year 7 months respectively for closing the Dartford crossing.

I am normally all for harsh sentences when deserved and don’t agree with their methods at all however the sentences seem pretty harsh when compared to other crimes.

Serious assaults and house breaking struggle to get you jail time these days but cause financial harm to the rich and you’ve had it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Think people would be surprised how much co2 the uk has cut. Its down almost half from 2005 it's at its lowest point since 1850. It's lower than most in Europe too. If the tories and clegg hadn't pushed back from nuclear it would be even lower, I'm confident we'll get net zero in a few decades

Attachment 26676

---

Will help further. Work started on a solar farm that will power 100k homes and be the biggest in the uk, although it should be beaten by one that will power 350k. Uk is planned to go from around 4% of power to come from solar to almost a quarter, some huge windfarms coming to. If battery technology keeps advancing then Scotland in particular is in a great position to eventually be a net exporter of renewable power

https://archive.ph/YEkjr

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Will help further. Work started on a solar farm that will power 100k homes and be the biggest in the uk, although it should be beaten by one that will power 350k. Uk is planned to go from around 4% of power to come from solar to almost a quarter, some huge windfarms coming to. If battery technology keeps advancing then Scotland in particular is in a great position to eventually be a net exporter of renewable power

https://archive.ph/YEkjr

---

Would be good if they went back to supporting individual households to install. That would leverage lots of private investment. Not as much benefit to the energy companies though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by One Day Soon

Yes. Go to Mars, explore the possibilty of achieving rare mineral abundance from passing asteroids, a moon base, interplanetary exploration etc. There's a lot of technological advance and abundance to be had out there and it could help resolve a lot of our problems down here.

---

This would make more sense if it was other way round. As it is, looking at Mars, there's not really much appeal to it!

Whereas, if we lived on Mars just now, and saw the lush green and blue of the Earth in the distance, it would be somewhere lovely to aspire to get to!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Would be good if they went back to supporting individual households to install. That would leverage lots of private investment. Not as much benefit to the energy companies though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Defo it's really a no brained you'd think.

Another major problem I see is people's heating. People can't buy food never mind an electric heating system. Government support is needed but the two at Westminster will kick it to each other.

Interested article in the national about the nations pushing hydrogen as a green gas ie China and Qatar

https://archive.ph/72JUP

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...box=1682439398

This will do more than most govt legislation to move things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Interested article in the national about the nations pushing hydrogen as a green gas ie China and Qatar

https://archive.ph/72JUP

---

Hydrogen is not the answer. The vast amounts of electricity required to split hydrogen from oxygen means it has never been a goer, although unsurprisingly, fossil fuel companies love the idea of producing the electricity required for it.

If anyone remembers the year or so we had concept hydrogen cars on Top Gear etc around 15 years ago, this was all funded by a certain petrochemical organisation rather than the car makers themselves. Not hard to work out who would be making the eye watering amounts of cash generating by splitting hydrogen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_Exile

Hydrogen is not the answer. The vast amounts of electricity required to split hydrogen from oxygen means it has never been a goer, although unsurprisingly, fossil fuel companies love the idea of producing the electricity required for it.

If anyone remembers the year or so we had concept hydrogen cars on Top Gear etc around 15 years ago, this was all funded by a certain petrochemical organisation rather than the car makers themselves. Not hard to work out who would be making the eye watering amounts of cash generating by splitting hydrogen.

---

Doesn't hydrogen provide a storage medium for green electricity? Also, doesn't it provide options for green transport where battery size is an issue (at least until battery technology develops)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by archie

Doesn't hydrogen provide a storage medium for green electricity? Also, doesn't it provide options for green transport where battery size is an issue (at least until battery technology develops)?

---

It could possibly provide a solution for boats, trains and planes but I doubt we could produce enough for cars and I can’t see us developing the infrastructure for it as well as for battery cars. I think the battery will win just by being first. And your right that it can be used as storage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It could possibly provide a solution for boats, trains and planes but I doubt we could produce enough for cars and I can’t see us developing the infrastructure for it as well as for battery cars. I think the battery will win just by being first. And your right that it can be used as storage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

On transport I was thinking of boats and trains. I don't think it it's viable for planes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by archie

On transport I was thinking of boats and trains. I don't think it it's viable for planes.

---

Your probably right, science not my strong point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Was talking to a friend last night over a few beers and we we're discussing the relentless climate protests in Berlin and the effect they've had on local politics.

Both of us agreed that at least in the short term, these protests have achieved the exact opposite to that what they say they hope to achieve.

Not only has Berlin just voted in its first centre right government in over 20 years as a consequence, but also the far right are profiting from what is now generally considered to be a left wing extremist attack on society.

I personally completely agree with what they say they are trying to achieve, however I find it extremely counterproductive the way they are going about achieving those aims.

Just recently there have been jail sentences of 4 months without probation, it will be interesting to see how committed to their cause they now are. That said a judge during sentencing recently expressed sympathy for their cause before passing sentence, it will be interesting to watch developments the next few months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Was talking to a friend last night over a few beers and we we're discussing the relentless climate protests in Berlin and the effect they've had on local politics.

Both of us agreed that at least in the short term, these protests have achieved the exact opposite to that what they say they hope to achieve.

Not only has Berlin just voted in its first centre right government in over 20 years as a consequence, but also the far right are profiting from what is now generally considered to be a left wing extremist attack on society.

I personally completely agree with what they say they are trying to achieve, however I find it extremely counterproductive the way they are going about achieving those aims.

Just recently there have been jail sentences of 4 months without probation, it will be interesting to see how committed to their cause they now are. That said a judge during sentencing recently expressed sympathy for their cause before passing sentence, it will be interesting to watch developments the next few months.

---

Like any political campaign, you have to take the public with you or it’s doomed to fail.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Was talking to a friend last night over a few beers and we we're discussing the relentless climate protests in Berlin and the effect they've had on local politics.

Both of us agreed that at least in the short term, these protests have achieved the exact opposite to that what they say they hope to achieve.

Not only has Berlin just voted in its first centre right government in over 20 years as a consequence, but also the far right are profiting from what is now generally considered to be a left wing extremist attack on society.

I personally completely agree with what they say they are trying to achieve, however I find it extremely counterproductive the way they are going about achieving those aims.

Just recently there have been jail sentences of 4 months without probation, it will be interesting to see how committed to their cause they now are. That said a judge during sentencing recently expressed sympathy for their cause before passing sentence, it will be interesting to watch developments the next few months.

---

I couldn't agree more that the focus needs to be on engaging people on this. We have also seen electoral gains in other European countries for parties that don't support the green agenda. Here Extinction Rebellion have very publically changed tactics. Some other groups haven't. I think the shock tactics get attention, but they are very alienating. When Extinction Rebellion activists glued themselves to the DLR in London, it was very confusing. Why make it harder for people to use public transport to get to work? I think that incident forced their rethink.

A bit late to the party, but I see Barry Hearn is/has taken the Snooker protestor to small claims court and written to the fans on that table asking them to join him. He’s looking to get compensation for their ticket price, travel, accommodation etc. He’s only looking for a civil charge and not a criminal charge. He’s also covering the legal costs. Good on him and fair play IMO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Modfather

A bit late to the party, but I see Barry Hearn is/has taken the Snooker protestor to small claims court and written to the fans on that table asking them to join him. He’s looking to get compensation for their ticket price, travel, accommodation etc. He’s only looking for a civil charge and not a criminal charge. He’s also covering the legal costs. Good on him and fair play IMO

---

nae need IMO. the entire point of protest is to cause relatively harmless inconvenience and spectacle in some way.

i'm not for a moment arguing that this was an effective protest, but there really isn't much else that hasn't been tried. this sets a dangerous precedent IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

nae need IMO. the entire point of protest is to cause relatively harmless inconvenience and spectacle in some way.

i'm not for a moment arguing that this was an effective protest, but there really isn't much else that hasn't been tried. this sets a dangerous precedent IMO.

---

I see what you’re saying but there’s also a danger of this protest setting a precedent as well. How long before we see the Grand National, Ryder Cup, football etc having to be stopped/cancelled in a similar stunt? Protest and cause a delay by all means, but when you’re causing events to be unable to be re-started I’m with Barry Hearn on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Modfather

I see what you’re saying but there’s also a danger of this protest setting a precedent as well. How long before we see the Grand National, Ryder Cup, football etc having to be stopped/cancelled in a similar stunt? Protest and cause a delay by all means, but when you’re causing events to be unable to be re-started I’m with Barry Hearn on this.

---

I struggle with this one.

I'm very sympathetic to their cause but I don't think targeting random events like the snooker, London underground, roads holding up ambulances etc is the right approach and I can understand why someone like Hearn would take action.

I fear that in the cases above protesters are doing their cause more harm than good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Modfather

I see what you’re saying but there’s also a danger of this protest setting a precedent as well. How long before we see the Grand National, Ryder Cup, football etc having to be stopped/cancelled in a similar stunt? Protest and cause a delay by all means, but when you’re causing events to be unable to be re-started I’m with Barry Hearn on this.

---

look at the relative consequences though - one is an inconvenience, perhaps a serious one, but the other is a de-facto censorship. Protest is never going to be perfect, nor is it always going to be effective, but if you effectively ban it in certain cases based on inconvenience, you're opening the door for that to be applied to all sorts of situations, businesses suing for lost profits etc, which could have colossal consequences.

Shell shareholders meeting this morning

https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/s...781599744?s=20

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good move by the french.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good move by the french.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

It is, but of course they have a much better high-speed rail service than we do. I can't think of anywhere in the UK with rail links less than 2.5 hours that also have air links.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It is, but of course they have a much better high-speed rail service than we do. I can't think of anywhere in the UK with rail links less than 2.5 hours that also have air links.

---

Yes but interesting to contrast with the UK where in the last budget the Tory Government cut APD tax on short haul flights.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...mestic-flights

The Government are going to advertise to stop people wishcycling. Putting things like take away boxes and juice cartons in the recycling when they aren't recyclable

https://archive.ph/xui1p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The Government are going to advertise to stop people wishcycling. Putting things like take away boxes and juice cartons in the recycling when they aren't recyclable

https://archive.ph/xui1p

---

I’m big on recycling myself and am fully aware of what shouldn’t go in the recycling bins but appreciate that a lot of folk aren’t. Think this is a pretty good initiative personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The Government are going to advertise to stop people wishcycling. Putting things like take away boxes and juice cartons in the recycling when they aren't recyclable

https://archive.ph/xui1p

---

That's a strange one for me to hear as over here both these articles get recycled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

That's a strange one for me to hear as over here both these articles get recycled.

---

Its possible to recycle that stuff but requires cleaning and decontaminating. I’d imagine over there things are done properly and not on the cheap so a bigger variety of items can be recycled.

https://youtu.be/sCSkNiyYv8g

Interesting video on why cities are moving away from cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anyone else think there has been a severe lack of rain this winter and it looks like we're in for an extremely dry June. Considering last year it was a dry summer, it's not looking good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

Anyone else think there has been a severe lack of rain this winter and it looks like we're in for an extremely dry June. Considering last year it was a dry summer, it's not looking good.

---

Was it not one of the wettest Springs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

Anyone else think there has been a severe lack of rain this winter and it looks like we're in for an extremely dry June. Considering last year it was a dry summer, it's not looking good.

---

Looks like we’re due some rain next weekend, just in time for the proclaimers in kelso!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

That's a strange one for me to hear as over here both these articles get recycled.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamig

Its possible to recycle that stuff but requires cleaning and decontaminating. I’d imagine over there things are done properly and not on the cheap so a bigger variety of items can be recycled.

---

I think part of the problem is that it varies across the country depending on which recycling company particular councils use. I regularly see examples where the recycling information on supermarket packaging directly contradicts my local council's information – I assume the supermarket labelling for a given item is correct for the majority of the country, but will sometimes be wrong locally in certain places. It's not surprising that people get confused.

https://twitter.com/glennbbc/status/...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

No recycling for Scotland. Shame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://twitter.com/glennbbc/status/...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

No recycling for Scotland. Shame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

What's particularly annoying is that all 4 nations agreed to include glass... even including a working party in NI...

When Scotland voted the legislation through, including glass, the Conservatives were in favour of it.

The only.outlier is England seems to have changed their mind so that seems to trump everything

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Just Alf

What's particularly annoying is that all 4 nations agreed to include glass... even including a working party in NI...

When Scotland voted the legislation through, including glass, the Conservatives were in favour of it.

The only.outlier is England seems to have changed their mind so that seems to trump everything

---

I would have loved it had lorna slater and Humza Yousaf made a joint statement saying Scotland was going ahead with the dsr as agreed by the Scottish Parliament and see what happens.

Caroline Lucus standing down at next election, she's been a very good politician Caroline Lucas says she is leaving parliament to devote more time to fighting ‘accelerating’ threats to planet – UK politics live (msn.com)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I would have loved it had lorna slater and Humza Yousaf made a joint statement saying Scotland was going ahead with the dsr as agreed by the Scottish Parliament and see what happens.

---

We can’t break the law. And the law states that Westminster has veto on anything the Scottish Parliament passes. We are not there yet but we are heading to a point where the parliament becomes pointless and all power is taken back to Westminster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The Government are going to advertise to stop people wishcycling. Putting things like take away boxes and juice cartons in the recycling when they aren't recyclable

https://archive.ph/xui1p

---

Good, I can point my wife towards that, though I’m not sure what good it will do her. I’m fed up of finding stuff in the recycling that she’s put there that shouldn’t be there. Even though I remind her, I find the same things again and again. Same with stuff in the compost bin. No cooked foods or labels etc and then I see she’s put them in there. “It’s too difficult to remember and then separate stuff” is her retort.

The messaging will be difficult though as I think different councils have different policies on what can and can’t be recycled in their area.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-..._type=web_link

Didn’t see this coming. I’ve always thought I would love an artificial lawn but my wife is dead against. So we still have grass.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Yet another Starmer u-turn. Going green gets a downgrade. By the time the manifesto comes out, will we be able to tell difference from Johnson’s 2019 manifesto?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-..._type=web_link

Didn’t see this coming. I’ve always thought I would love an artificial lawn but my wife is dead against. So we still have grass.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

This crops up on my twitter often, usually people moaning about how bad they look (they don't look bad, but it suits their narrative to say so).

I find it hard to believe that relatively small areas have that big an impact, and they're not exactly massively popular either. I have proper grass and have no immediate desire to change that but my parents have artifical as they weren't able to keep up with the maintenance of lawn whilst seeking to keep a tidy and useable area (not the wild flower, uncut meadow that's often cited as the best use of the space).

I don't think banning it is a proportional response to the issue.

you can check here if your car is ok for any LEZ areas in Scotland https://www.lowemissionzones.scot/ve...ration-checker

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Yet another Starmer u-turn. Going green gets a downgrade. By the time the manifesto comes out, will we be able to tell difference from Johnson’s 2019 manifesto?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Might be a couple of extra Union Jacks on the cover.

What is the point in UK democracy when all that happens is you get a chance to vote for the Labour Party under the guise of the previous Tory administration or vote for an even further right Tory party. The direction of travel is further to the right regardless it is just how many pauses there are before we get to full Nazi. Mind you we are approaching the point there is nothing left to steal or privatise so they will be wanting a left leaning government with massive investment plans to take control so their mates companies can benefit even more.

https://twitter.com/greenpeaceuk/sta...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

7 inches of rain in 3 hours in West Point, NY yesterday. Search Twitter for the photos. Crazy.


Sent from my SM-A426U1 using Tapatalk

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

UK investment in clean energy falling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/sta...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

This is incredible. Ukraine put up more windmills than the UK in the last year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-66225205

I'm sure this was mentioned earlier on this thread.

Looks like the early results are promising.

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/foo...from-edinburgh

More good news. I think.[emoji51][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66229065

The last line is alarming - our aims are now to have a planet that's 'liveable' for 'many'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66229065

The last line is alarming - our aims are now to have a planet that's 'liveable' for 'many'

---

https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/statu...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

I wouldn’t count on Labour taking the tough decisions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66229065

The last line is alarming - our aims are now to have a planet that's 'liveable' for 'many'

---

People should be forced to learn chess at an early age. It seems like a high proportion of mankind in incapable of thinking four steps ahead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/statu...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

I wouldn’t count on Labour taking the tough decisions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Don't count on any significant political operator anywhere in the world taking tough decisions. All are committed to growing GDP and the Uxbridge bye-election shows that people put their short-term financial interests above longer-term environmental considerations.

The mainstream view is that if we simply replace carbon based energy by something else then we can go back to having an ever-growing population each using more resources every year. We're not doing the replacement anywhere fast enough and even if we were it seems to me to ignore all the other effects homo sapiens is having on the world.

Should have went nuclear 20 years ago when lib dems blew it. The greens opposing nuclear so we will burn gas to make up the shortfall. Its not just us Germany decommissioning it's nuclear plants and increasing burning gas and coal to cover it. Look at the fuel prices explosion in Germany and uk then look at France with its nuclear power

There's 30 deaths per terawatt of coal burnt due to accidents and pollution, zero from nuclear. Then obviously tiny emissions. In France's new plants 98% of the nuclear waste will be low lever and safe in a few decades, only 2% of the waste will need stored.

We should be in the position we don't need nuclear waste in 50 years when battery storage improves. In the meantime we'll keep burning fossil fuels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Should have went nuclear 20 years ago when lib dems blew it. The greens opposing nuclear so we will burn gas to make up the shortfall. Its not just us Germany decommissioning it's nuclear plants and increasing burning gas and coal to cover it. Look at the fuel prices explosion in Germany and uk then look at France with its nuclear power

There's 30 deaths per terawatt of coal burnt due to accidents and pollution, zero from nuclear. Then obviously tiny emissions. In France's new plants 98% of the nuclear waste will be low lever and safe in a few decades, only 2% of the waste will need stored.

We should be in the position we don't need nuclear waste in 50 years when battery storage improves. In the meantime we'll keep burning fossil fuels.

---

Nuclear is a no brainer on every metric except cost. The SG should end its opposition to nuclear power and judge each case on its merits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Should have went nuclear 20 years ago when lib dems blew it. The greens opposing nuclear so we will burn gas to make up the shortfall. Its not just us Germany decommissioning it's nuclear plants and increasing burning gas and coal to cover it. Look at the fuel prices explosion in Germany and uk then look at France with its nuclear power

There's 30 deaths per terawatt of coal burnt due to accidents and pollution, zero from nuclear. Then obviously tiny emissions. In France's new plants 98% of the nuclear waste will be low lever and safe in a few decades, only 2% of the waste will need stored.

We should be in the position we don't need nuclear waste in 50 years when battery storage improves. In the meantime we'll keep burning fossil fuels.

---

Factcheck: deaths due to nuclear accidents. Just chernobyl caused 30 direct deaths and potentially thousands more.

The worst nuclear accident to date is the Chernobyl disaster which occurred in 1986 in Ukraine. The accident killed approximately 30 people directly[23] and damaged approximately $7 billion of property.[citation needed] A study published in 2005 by the World Health Organization estimates that there may eventually be up to 4,000 additional cancer deaths related to the accident among those exposed to significant radiation levels.[24] Radioactive fallout from the accident was concentrated in areas of Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. Other studies have estimated as many as over a million eventual cancer deaths from Chernobyl.[25][26] Estimates of eventual deaths from cancer are highly contested.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Factcheck: deaths due to nuclear accidents. Just chernobyl caused 30 direct deaths and potentially thousands more.

The worst nuclear accident to date is the Chernobyl disaster which occurred in 1986 in Ukraine. The accident killed approximately 30 people directly[23] and damaged approximately $7 billion of property.[citation needed] A study published in 2005 by the World Health Organization estimates that there may eventually be up to 4,000 additional cancer deaths related to the accident among those exposed to significant radiation levels.[24] Radioactive fallout from the accident was concentrated in areas of Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. Other studies have estimated as many as over a million eventual cancer deaths from Chernobyl.[25][26] Estimates of eventual deaths from cancer are highly contested.

---

Yep. Nuclear energy is "safe" until it isn't. And when it isn't, the effects are catastrophic. Scotland neither requires nuclear or coal to meet it's energy requirements. The only reason we still use coal is because the lion share of the energy generated through renewable's is sent to other parts of the UK on the shared grid. If we simply had our own grid, we'd meet our energy requirements multiple times over from renewable's alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Factcheck: deaths due to nuclear accidents. Just chernobyl caused 30 direct deaths and potentially thousands more.

The worst nuclear accident to date is the Chernobyl disaster which occurred in 1986 in Ukraine. The accident killed approximately 30 people directly[23] and damaged approximately $7 billion of property.[citation needed] A study published in 2005 by the World Health Organization estimates that there may eventually be up to 4,000 additional cancer deaths related to the accident among those exposed to significant radiation levels.[24] Radioactive fallout from the accident was concentrated in areas of Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. Other studies have estimated as many as over a million eventual cancer deaths from Chernobyl.[25][26] Estimates of eventual deaths from cancer are highly contested.

---

Year I was born but my figures are from the world health organisation today. Per year 30 deaths from accidents and pollution per terawatt hour of coal. 44,000 twh lasts year from coal so 1,300,000 deaths attributed to it in one year. Nuclear isn't actually 0 it 0.02.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

Yep. Nuclear energy is "safe" until it isn't. And when it isn't, the effects are catastrophic. Scotland neither requires nuclear or coal to meet it's energy requirements. The only reason we still use coal is because the lion share of the energy generated through renewable's is sent to other parts of the UK on the shared grid. If we simply had our own grid, we'd meet our energy requirements multiple times over from renewable's alone.

---

Big pile of made up facts here 😆.

Scotland produces about 50% of its energy consumption from renewables. Some days when the wind is low and its cloudy it can be as low as 5% of the energy through renewables.

Once we master storage we will be OK. Well except for heating our homes and all petrol vehicles, that might take 50 years to change on its own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Nuclear is a no brainer on every metric except cost. The SG should end its opposition to nuclear power and judge each case on its merits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

I think the new rolls Royce factories look great. We would only need 1 and could decommission as soon as we possibly could.

It's isn't that nuclear is perfect its that we are literally burning the planet instead

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

Yep. Nuclear energy is "safe" until it isn't. And when it isn't, the effects are catastrophic. Scotland neither requires nuclear or coal to meet it's energy requirements. The only reason we still use coal is because the lion share of the energy generated through renewable's is sent to other parts of the UK on the shared grid. If we simply had our own grid, we'd meet our energy requirements multiple times over from renewable's alone.

---

That’s not correct. We don’t have storage for all the energy we produce and there are times when we don’t produce enough and import. None of that is a bad thing although more storage would be good. Being part of larger grids is not a bad thing, even after independence.

Nuclear energy is very very safe. I’m not saying Scotland needs it because it’s very expensive and we have so many other cheaper alternatives but for lots of countries it should be part of the long term solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Year I was born but my figures are from the world health organisation today. Per year 30 deaths from accidents and pollution per terawatt hour of coal. 44,000 twh lasts year from coal so 1,300,000 deaths attributed to it in one year. Nuclear isn't actually 0 it 0.02.

---

I assume these are deaths directly attributed to the pollution but the longer term effects of radiation mean the actual number of deaths due to radiation is difficult to enumerate.

And that's not taking into account the environmental damage. Soil and water courses polluted for decades if not centuries.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I assume these are deaths directly attributed to the pollution but the longer term effects of radiation mean the actual number of deaths due to radiation is difficult to enumerate.

And that's not taking into account the environmental damage. Soil and water courses polluted for decades if not centuries.

---

Uranium mining isn't exactly risk free either.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kato

Uranium mining isn't exactly risk free either.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

---

No mining is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

We should be in the position we don't need nuclear waste in 50 years

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Nuclear energy is very very safe.

---

How safe is the waste? :dunno:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I assume these are deaths directly attributed to the pollution but the longer term effects of radiation mean the actual number of deaths due to radiation is difficult to enumerate.

And that's not taking into account the environmental damage. Soil and water courses polluted for decades if not centuries.

---

There is a whole wiki page on the death toll from Chernobyl.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deat...duced%20cancer.

Given the size of the disaster and the fact that it would be very difficult (almost impossible) for it to happen again, even the upper estimates bring it in a lot safer than other fuels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk