SNP are lying b******s as well !

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Poor Ian my a***.

I have the misfortune to know the cretin through the Hibs 50 club as we were both members.

The 50 club used to have an annual dinner dance at some posh hotel, usually the Caley.

We we were expecting Blackford and his partner to be at our table but he didn’t show on the night and a friend and fellow member at the table told me Blackford had phoned him and asked him to get him two tickets for the night so he’d be after him for the ticket costs of about £140.

Next time I saw my friend he told me Blackford had refused to pay saying he wasn’t there and anyway my friend couldn’t prove he had asked him to get him tickets. My friend is a long standing Scot Nat who was in the party long before Blackford joined.

That’s the measure of the man, bump his fellow club members.

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I knew the prick when he lived in Muirhouse…to good to go to Craigroyston …his parents pulled strings to get him to the Royal High School.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

I knew the prick when he lived in Muirhouse…to good to go to Craigroyston …his parents pulled strings to get him to the Royal High School.

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Absolutely despicable. I don’t know how he sleeps at night.


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:tee hee:

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

:top marksExcellent post. I don't see myself as a unionist either but everyone's got to have a label these days apparently.

I really wish more SNP supporters could be more tolerant of those of us with different views. The ones that think they are somehow 'more Scottish', whatever that means, are the worst!!

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I’ve always just thought a Unionist was someone who wants to stay part of the Union, and never knew it was offensive in any way whatsoever.. other than to those who don’t actually like the Union. If you don’t like the term, I’m more than happy not to use it towards you or anyone else 👍

As for the last paragraph about people thinking they are ‘more Scottish’ I genuinely don’t know anyone like that. I don’t think there are any on here that I’m aware of either. It’s another one of those that I hear people from the other side talk about, like referencing braveheart or hating England, but doesn’t actually ring true amongst any Indy supporters in my experience. Maybe you know some personally in which case, I agree, they’re not helpful.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

I knew the prick when he lived in Muirhouse…to good to go to Craigroyston …his parents pulled strings to get him to the Royal High School.

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A child being sent to private school isn’t really their fault or issue though is it? And, while I’m no advocate of private education against state schools; maybe, just maybe, his folks had the money and believed this would give him the best chance for him to get to where he is today in his career.

I don’t know the guy personally, but I have learned during life not to be prejudice towards someone just because they went to a ‘posh schuil’ 😁

As for greenginger’s tale on him.. I hope posters will forgive me for being hesitant in believing every detail.

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

A child being sent to private school isn’t really their fault or issue though is it? And, while I’m no advocate of private education against state schools; maybe, just maybe, his folks had the money and believed this would give him the best chance for him to get to where he is today in his career.

I don’t know the guy personally, but I have learned during life not to be prejudice towards someone just because they went to a ‘posh schuil’ 😁

As for greenginger’s tale on him.. I hope posters will forgive me for being hesitant in believing every detail.

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Royal High school was not a private school…just considered a better state school but due to some parental clout he did not have to attend the local school for his catchment area.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Royal High school was not a private school…just considered a better state school but due to some parental clout he did not have to attend the local school for his catchment area.

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Ah sorry, my mistake. I assumed royal high was private.

Maintain my point though.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Royal High school was not a private school…just considered a better state school but due to some parental clout he did not have to attend the local school for his catchment area.

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I coach youth footy and I have loads of kids from Craigroyston catchment and none of them actually go there. Downright evil.

I know of a polish family in West Pilton who sent the kids to the Gaelic school at Broughton because the catchment if you went there is Boroughmuir.


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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Ah sorry, my mistake. I assumed royal high was private.

Maintain my point though.

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Had this been DRoss or some of his lot you would be screaming it is a scandal …

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Ah sorry, my mistake. I assumed royal high was private.

Maintain my point though.

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It was a long time ago, bit before Blackford though, early 70s I think.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

It was a long time ago, bit before Blackford though, early 70s I think.

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It's never been private, unless you count the years when it was run by monks 😄 It's always been State.


It was "selective" at one time, just as Trinity and Gillespie's were.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Royal High school was not a private school…just considered a better state school but due to some parental clout he did not have to attend the local school for his catchment area.

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Royal High, Trinity Academy and James Gillespie's were all council run schools but you had to pass an entrance exam to get in until they became fully comprehensive in the early Seventies. Until about 1970 they were also fee paying schools although the fees were latterly about £5 per term.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Had this been DRoss or some of his lot you would be screaming it is a scandal …

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What school did D Ross go to? Looking forward to a good scream.

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Originally Posted by Sharon

Royal High, Trinity Academy and James Gillespie's were all council run schools but you had to pass an entrance exam to get in until they became fully comprehensive in the early Seventies. Until about 1970 they were also fee paying schools although the fees were latterly about £5 per term.

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Did you need to sit an entrance exam to get into Holy Cross Academy?

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Are threads criticising our SNP government forbidden on Hibs.net :confused:

If not I’ll continue even if it upsets your own perspective.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

W


Oh dear, I seem to have negated myself from anything good I have ever done because I have lost perspective and have criticised SNP’s Great Leader :greengrin

This is place is getting like North Korea.

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Come ootae there, please! Have never voted SNP if ye must know. Anythin remotely tory & therefore nowadays union & therefore the utter lyin tripe that is brexit kinda gets my notice, kinda like you just did.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Had this been DRoss or some of his lot you would be screaming it is a scandal …

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I would? What makes you say that?

I can assure you I wouldn’t. There’s plenty to have a go at Douglas Ross for without picking at something pathetic.

Like I touched upon, I gave up giving a f*** what school someone attended at about erm…school age.

And whatever it is or isn’t.. it’s hardly a “scandal” 😂

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Originally Posted by majorhibs

Come ootae there, please! Have never voted SNP if ye must know. Anythin remotely tory & therefore nowadays union & therefore the utter lyin tripe that is brexit kinda gets my notice, kinda like you just did.

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Well if it calms your body I voted remain in the 2016 referendum.

But the majority voted leave, so , in a democracy that’s what happens and the ones on the loosing side should accept it.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's never been private, unless you count the years when it was run by monks 😄 It's always been State.


It was "selective" at one time, just as Trinity and Gillespie's were.

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Oops, my mistake. My mum taught there in the 80s as well.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Well if it calms your body I voted remain in the 2016 referendum.

But the majority voted leave, so , in a democracy that’s what happens and the ones on the loosing side should accept it.

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Slavers like yersel can keep tae yersel, mate, we aw ken how that went but you & mogg & bo & yer zillionaires just keep smug.

If you're looking for schooling scandals... I went to a 'Grammar School' that wasn't actually a real Grammar School


I'm ashamed of it to this day.

:embarrass

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

I don't doubt you're totally sincere in that but you just need to look at the undisguised glee at the reporting of GERS "deficits" etc.

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Are the GERS numbers not produced by the Scottish government or is it the Scottish part of the Westminster government? I get they are an extrapolation from other numbers and not totally accurate but they are a best estimation. I recall McKay was going to produce alternative GERS numbers but don’t think they were ever delivered.

I was trying to think of Tory policies that specifically were bad for scotlands economy and the only example I could think of was the carbon capture site. However I don’t think that was specifically targeting Scotland but instead chose other sites.

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Originally Posted by Skol

Are the GERS numbers not produced by the Scottish government or is it the Scottish part of the Westminster government? I get they are an extrapolation from other numbers and not totally accurate but they are a best estimation. I recall McKay was going to produce alternative GERS numbers but don’t think they were ever delivered.

I was trying to think of Tory policies that specifically were bad for scotlands economy and the only example I could think of was the carbon capture site. However I don’t think that was specifically targeting Scotland but instead chose other sites.

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https://www.gov.scot/publications/go...tland-2020-21/

Its our Scottish Government that produces the GERS stats.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Well if it calms your body I voted remain in the 2016 referendum.

But the majority voted leave, so , in a democracy that’s what happens and the ones on the loosing side should accept it.

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I think everyone has accepted it. Why still whine on about that.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

https://www.gov.scot/publications/go...tland-2020-21/

Its our Scottish Government that produces the GERS stats.

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Where do they get the figures from?

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Originally Posted by degenerated

Where do they get the figures from?

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The Gers?

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

The Gers?

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As I understand it, they calculate the expenditure relating to devolved spend and the revenue figures along with reserved spend are provided by the treasury.

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Originally Posted by Kato

I think everyone has accepted it. Why still whine on about that.

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Who’s whining, apart from yourself.

I was responding to post 215 which , I think , accused me of being a brexiteer and spouting lying tripe :confused:

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Originally Posted by Skol

Are the GERS numbers not produced by the Scottish government or is it the Scottish part of the Westminster government? I get they are an extrapolation from other numbers and not totally accurate but they are a best estimation. I recall McKay was going to produce alternative GERS numbers but don’t think they were ever delivered.

I was trying to think of Tory policies that specifically were bad for scotlands economy and the only example I could think of was the carbon capture site. However I don’t think that was specifically targeting Scotland but instead chose other sites.

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Gets are Produced by the SG I think, I think that's a red herring though, the numbers are the numbers whoever produces them. There's also the ONS figures (I think?)

It feels like those on either side seem to latch onto something and stretch it to.meet their argument.

UK gov. is trying to.do the best for everyone (its in their own best interests), its just that indy supporters think a Scot gov could maybe do better.

In terms of the figures and folks jumping on them, unionists "gleefully" point out the deficit (directly or indirectly hinting at the 'too wee to poor' claim). Whilst the indy side points out that it includes many things an iScotland wouldn't be paying for or skews the figures .. Trident, HS2, Westminster refurb, the oil fields to the east of Dundee being attributed to England etc....

As usual the truth will be somewhere in between:greengrin

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Originally Posted by Kato

I think everyone has accepted it.

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I haven't accepted it. The issue should never have been put to a referendum in the first place, and the "win" was obtained by illegal means, and as seems to be clearer each day, with interference in the vote from Russia in order to destabilise the EU. Some things are just stupid. Having lots of people voting for something stupid doesn't make it any less stupid.

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Produced by the SG I think, I think that's a red herring though, the numbers are the numbers whoever produces them.

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I can tell you're not an accountant, are you? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by grunt

Some things are just stupid. Having lots of people voting for something stupid doesn't make it any less stupid.

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In the last GE, Dorries got almost 60% of the vote in her constituency.

The GERS figures every year are a great reminder of how badly Scotland does as part of the union. And every year unionists rejoice in how poor we are getting. It’s always a weird week.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The GERS figures every year are a great reminder of how badly Scotland does as part of the union. And every year unionists rejoice in how poor we are getting. It’s always a weird week.


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But when GERs showed a surplus they were what? A great advert of how well Scotland was doing?

Nicola Sturgeon said they made the case for Scottish Independence.

Politicians being politicians will say whatever to make their points.

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Originally Posted by grunt

I haven't accepted it. The issue should never have been put to a referendum in the first place, and the "win" was obtained by illegal means, and as seems to be clearer each day, with interference in the vote from Russia in order to destabilise the EU. Some things are just stupid. Having lots of people voting for something stupid doesn't make it any less stupid.

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You've accepted is as in you aren't rioting or doing anything undemocratic.

Discussing the effects and the actual process is democratic but lots of people seem to think that that is "not accepting" the result, which is just rubbish.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Who’s whining, apart from yourself.

I was responding to post 215 which , I think , accused me of being a brexiteer and spouting lying tripe :confused:

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1 out 2 isn't bad.

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Originally Posted by James310

But when GERs showed a surplus they were what? A great advert of how well Scotland was doing?

Nicola Sturgeon said they made the case for Scottish Independence.

Politicians being politicians will say whatever to make their points.

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You can’t get away from the fact that Scotland is poorer than our neighbours. Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway are all much richer than we are. What is the unionist plan to fix this? The answer is that there isn’t one. It’s all about centralising power and wealth in London.


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Originally Posted by Skol

Are the GERS numbers not produced by the Scottish government or is it the Scottish part of the Westminster government? I get they are an extrapolation from other numbers and not totally accurate but they are a best estimation. I recall McKay was going to produce alternative GERS numbers but don’t think they were ever delivered.

I was trying to think of Tory policies that specifically were bad for scotlands economy and the only example I could think of was the carbon capture site. However I don’t think that was specifically targeting Scotland but instead chose other sites.

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Your last paragraph. Only £596 million mitigation in the last financial year. Small change to the Westminster elites, but making a difference in many areas of Scotland. The seven new social security payments alone are making a difference to families and the economy, and that's before the only one you can remember.

This thread is showing a clear line in the sand from people who get irate at paying an extra penny on income tax to help those less fortunate.

It makes me more determined than ever to continue talking up our country, rather than hiding behind more tory lies.

If you can't see the difference in policies, you're not looking hard enough.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

You can’t get away from the fact that Scotland is poorer than our neighbours. Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway are all much richer than we are. What is the unionist plan to fix this? The answer is that there isn’t one. It’s all about centralising power and wealth in London.


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A bigger begging bowl?

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Your last paragraph. Only £596 million mitigation in the last financial year. Small change to the Westminster elites, but making a difference in many areas of Scotland. The seven new social security payments alone are making a difference to families and the economy, and that's before the only one you can remember.

This thread is showing a clear line in the sand from people who get irate at paying an extra penny on income tax to help those less fortunate.

It makes me more determined than ever to continue talking up our country, rather than hiding behind more tory lies.

If you can't see the difference in policies, you're not looking hard enough.

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I can see difference in policies between Westminster and holyrood, but the point made was that Tory policies specifically are bad for Scotland and to make us poorer. I don’t think that they are just bad for Scotland, but are bad for many parts of the UK.

Odd that you have brought in the taxation point as I don’t think that’s been discussed on this thread. When we voted for devolution I was against it, but I did vote in favour of the tax raising powers as I was pretty certain we would vote in favour of devolution and I felt in that case the tax raising powers were important.

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Originally Posted by Skol

I can see difference in policies between Westminster and holyrood, but the point made was that Tory policies specifically are bad for Scotland and to make us poorer. I don’t think that they are just bad for Scotland, but are bad for many parts of the UK.

Odd that you have brought in the taxation point as I don’t think that’s been discussed on this thread. When we voted for devolution I was against it, but I did vote in favour of the tax raising powers as I was pretty certain we would vote in favour of devolution and I felt in that case the tax raising powers were important.

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The party you support is in government in Wales. What have you done do mitigate policies there?

On the tax question, according to latest figures 55% of Scots pay less tax.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skol

Are the GERS numbers not produced by the Scottish government or is it the Scottish part of the Westminster government? I get they are an extrapolation from other numbers and not totally accurate but they are a best estimation. I recall McKay was going to produce alternative GERS numbers but don’t think they were ever delivered.

I was trying to think of Tory policies that specifically were bad for scotlands economy and the only example I could think of was the carbon capture site. However I don’t think that was specifically targeting Scotland but instead chose other sites.

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Yes, you can quibble over bits of the GERS numbers, but they are most likely a reasonable ball park and are produced by Scotgov.

It's pointless to use them as an indicator for a post-Indy world though. Almost half the spend is things "for the benefit of Scotland" spent by UK gov. The amount Scotgov spends is almost entirely decided at Westminster (although can be varied a bit by local taxes). The amount of money raised through taxation is very largely decided at Westminster.

One of the key lessons from the pandemic is there's not much point of having charge of eg. health policy, if you don't control the spending necessary to support it. For example, you get furlough if/when England needs it, and if they don't, you don't.

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Originally Posted by Skol

I can see difference in policies between Westminster and holyrood, but the point made was that Tory policies specifically are bad for Scotland and to make us poorer. I don’t think that they are just bad for Scotland, but are bad for many parts of the UK.

Odd that you have brought in the taxation point as I don’t think that’s been discussed on this thread. When we voted for devolution I was against it, but I did vote in favour of the tax raising powers as I was pretty certain we would vote in favour of devolution and I felt in that case the tax raising powers were important.

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Yes, absolutely agree with that. Regional inequality is just as big a problem for other bits of the UK. IN fact it's even worse if you live in the poorer parts of England. Since you're not threatening independence and aren't a nuclear sub parking zone, you don't get any Barnett uplift either. They get well and truly shafted.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

The party you support is in government in Wales. What have you done do mitigate policies there?

On the tax question, according to latest figures 55% of Scots pay less tax.

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I am a bit confused by your question given I don’t have a vote in wales or any kind of influence.

On tax, I think the difference in tax is minimal. As a coincidence I received a letter from hector this morning telling me I had overpaid by £70 and inviting me to request a refund. Not sure how that can happen when I am PAYE and had no change in employer or extra income. The letter does lay out how much tax I paid at each of the Scottish tax points so I will be able to work out my own position.

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Originally Posted by grunt

I can tell you're not an accountant, are you? :greengrin

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Ha ha true! :greengrin

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Originally Posted by grunt

Are you suggesting their might not be one?

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Oooh got me on a typo!

Yeah I am suggesting that. There will be no referendum, just like there wasn’t one all the other years she has claimed there would be.

She has been saying it for about 6 years now.


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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Yes, you can quibble over bits of the GERS numbers, but they are most likely a reasonable ball park and are produced by Scotgov.

It's pointless to use them as an indicator for a post-Indy world though. Almost half the spend is things "for the benefit of Scotland" spent by UK gov. The amount Scotgov spends is almost entirely decided at Westminster (although can be varied a bit by local taxes). The amount of money raised through taxation is very largely decided at Westminster.

One of the key lessons from the pandemic is there's not much point of having charge of eg. health policy, if you don't control the spending necessary to support it. For example, you get furlough if/when England needs it, and if they don't, you don't.

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I agree with that and that’s why I think it’s important we see proposals on this from the SNP to better inform the debate. The absence of this makes it very difficult.

I suspect this will lead to someone stating the union need to make their case in reply. They don’t really as we know what we get and how it works. However I do agree that the UK government could and should do more. Sadly the current incumbents are not going to and we are stuck with in my view poor governments in both Westminster and holyrood. The missed opportunity with boris at the helm is massive.

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Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998

Oooh got me on a typo!

Yeah I am suggesting that. There will be no referendum, just like there wasn’t one all the other years she has claimed there would be.

She has been saying it for about 6 years now.


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Hang on... are you saying she shouldn't have waited on the pandemic nearing an end?

There's no glass ceiling for the Conservatives in England and Wales, or if there is it is set at a very high level. In that context it's quite a tough gig for Starmer to catch and defeat them. But he seems to have kept Labour ahead for most of the last four months and that's presumably due to a mix of Johnson's crash and Starmer's relatively good performance.

Bit of a challenge then for Elsie that in the same context her nationalists cannot emulate Starmer's Labour with a poll bounce majority for independence. The Conservatives here absolutely do have a glass ceiling and they also offer virtually everything you could want to drive Scottish voters towards the idea of independence ranging from a crap Tory leader to a malign/incompetent government and a rag-tag Cabinet of fellow traveller idiots and bad faith actors.

My suspicion is that the Salmond and Sturgeon record in government of the last 14 years is slowly catching up with them and this is leading to a stalling in confidence about their statements on both another referendum and independence itself. The only thing protecting their poll numbers at the moment is the Conservative glass ceiling and Scottish Labour being stuck in third place and struggling to get visible and to carve out electoral ground of their own.

So perhaps the Scottish electorate does increasingly realise that the 'SNP are lying *******s as well!' but currently those electors feel they have nowhere else credible to go...

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Hang on... are you saying she shouldn't have waited on the pandemic nearing an end?

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Emm nope. Never said that and not sure where on earth you got that from?

Here she is 4 years ago - https://youtu.be/NrfSilGDfeI

Whatever happened to that referendum? Did she know about Covid ahead of time?

Btw I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a referendum, I hope there is, the separatists will lose again, probably by a larger margin. The point I’m making is sturgeon continues to dangle the carrot of a referendum (one she knows she won’t win) to remain in power - her fanatical supporters demand it. Quite amusing really.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998

Emm nope. Never said that and not sure where on earth you got that from?

Here she is 4 years ago - https://youtu.be/NrfSilGDfeI

Whatever happened to that referendum? Did she know about Covid ahead of time?

Btw I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a referendum, I hope there is, the separatists will lose again, probably by a larger margin. The point I’m making is sturgeon continues to dangle the carrot of a referendum (one she knows she won’t win) to remain in power - her fanatical supporters demand it. Quite amusing really.


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I’d imagine he got it from the fact you finished your post with a dig about how many years she’s been talking about another referendum.

Would you expect her to stand and say “aye barry, we’ll get dragged out of the EU after all the lies of the referendum and brexit vote” at that time? As for what happened to it, you surely weren’t expecting to be filling out your no vote the very next day? Whenever her ideally planned date for this was; she didn’t know about covid ahead of time, but it did happen, as did a number of other blockers. It will happen, so you will get your wish.

Your posts make you seem more ‘on edge’ than “amused” about all this.

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Originally Posted by Skol

I am a bit confused by your question given I don’t have a vote in wales or any kind of influence.

On tax, I think the difference in tax is minimal. As a coincidence I received a letter from hector this morning telling me I had overpaid by £70 and inviting me to request a refund. Not sure how that can happen when I am PAYE and had no change in employer or extra income. The letter does lay out how much tax I paid at each of the Scottish tax points so I will be able to work out my own position.

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You're advocating that we stay in the UK, to be ruled by a party which England chooses (see 80 seat majority). My question re Wales was really about how they're dealing with devolution, and is it also affecting the people there. If 'Welsh' labour are not effective, I can see a surge of plaid cymru in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skol

I am a bit confused by your question given I don’t have a vote in wales or any kind of influence.

On tax, I think the difference in tax is minimal. As a coincidence I received a letter from hector this morning telling me I had overpaid by £70 and inviting me to request a refund. Not sure how that can happen when I am PAYE and had no change in employer or extra income. The letter does lay out how much tax I paid at each of the Scottish tax points so I will be able to work out my own position.

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Sounds like a scam. Any tax refund I’ve had comes by cheque.

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

I’d imagine he got it from the fact you finished your post with a dig about how many years she’s been talking about another referendum.

Would you expect her to stand and say “aye barry, we’ll get dragged out of the EU after all the lies of the referendum and brexit vote” at that time? As for what happened to it, you surely weren’t expecting to be filling out your no vote the very next day? Whenever her ideally planned date for this was; she didn’t know about covid ahead of time, but it did happen, as did a number of other blockers. It will happen, so you will get your wish.

Your posts make you seem more ‘on edge’ than “amused” about all this.

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Did you watch the video? Or just start typing? It was from 2017, she said she would call it for autumn 2018/spring 2019….. that never happened. What was the blocker? Covid? Lol.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skol

I agree with that and that’s why I think it’s important we see proposals on this from the SNP to better inform the debate. The absence of this makes it very difficult.

I suspect this will lead to someone stating the union need to make their case in reply. They don’t really as we know what we get and how it works. However I do agree that the UK government could and should do more. Sadly the current incumbents are not going to and we are stuck with in my view poor governments in both Westminster and holyrood. The missed opportunity with boris at the helm is massive.

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I've seen you post this line before, so will oblige. :wink:

We've no idea what the UK will become in the future. So many lies in the past doesn't fill me with confidence though.

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Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998

Did you watch the video? Or just start typing? It was from 2017, she said she would call it for autumn 2018/spring 2019….. that never happened. What was the blocker? Covid? Lol.


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Forgive me, I'm not as up on politics as you and many others, and my memory clearly isn't that sharp for going back 4 or 5 years.

Can you tell me if Boris and co told Nicola just to fire-on and let the people of Scotland decide their fate, and she just stalled (or kept dangling the carrot) for some reason?

I imagine at some point, Covid had an effect. But again, happy to stand corrected by those who know better.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Sounds like a scam. Any tax refund I’ve had comes by cheque.

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I got the same (although in my case it was after doing my SA). You can request it through your hmrc online account which will reassure you it's not a scam.

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Forgive me, I'm not as up on politics as you and many others, and my memory clearly isn't that sharp for going back 4 or 5 years.

Can you tell me if Boris and co told Nicola just to fire-on and let the people of Scotland decide their fate, and she just stalled (or kept dangling the carrot) for some reason?

I imagine at some point, Covid had an effect. But again, happy to stand corrected by those who know better.

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She never called it mate. She came up with some excuse about uncertainty around Brexit and then waiting for the general election where Boris got elected. Covid eventually became the issue but the dithering started long before then.

Now the excuse from Blackford is Ukraine, despite Holyrood and the SNP having no involvement in UK foreign policy.

The SNP will keep kicking the can down the road until such time as they think they can win a referendum - could be waiting a while. I just wonder how long the nationalist supporters will fall for it.


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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

There's no glass ceiling for the Conservatives in England and Wales, or if there is it is set at a very high level. In that context it's quite a tough gig for Starmer to catch and defeat them. But he seems to have kept Labour ahead for most of the last four months and that's presumably due to a mix of Johnson's crash and Starmer's relatively good performance.

Bit of a challenge then for Elsie that in the same context her nationalists cannot emulate Starmer's Labour with a poll bounce majority for independence. The Conservatives here absolutely do have a glass ceiling and they also offer virtually everything you could want to drive Scottish voters towards the idea of independence ranging from a crap Tory leader to a malign/incompetent government and a rag-tag Cabinet of fellow traveller idiots and bad faith actors.

My suspicion is that the Salmond and Sturgeon record in government of the last 14 years is slowly catching up with them and this is leading to a stalling in confidence about their statements on both another referendum and independence itself. The only thing protecting their poll numbers at the moment is the Conservative glass ceiling and Scottish Labour being stuck in third place and struggling to get visible and to carve out electoral ground of their own.

So perhaps the Scottish electorate does increasingly realise that the 'SNP are lying *******s as well!' but currently those electors feel they have nowhere else credible to go...

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SNP got 47/41% last year. Or 45% in 2019 GE. Higher than Tories in UK btw.

I would suggest there is a Tory UK ceiling at about 45% - Johnson got 43 even with his new anti-immigration coalition and Thatcher only managed a high of 44. Thanks to Westminster's super duper system, that's all you need though. How unifying.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

You can also support indy without being a proud Scot. I don't think it's anything in particular to be proud of, tbh. It would just be another small European country if it functioned normally.

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Indeed. I wasn't actually meaning to imply I'm an especially proud Scot either. There's plenty not to be proud of (with the vast anachronism known as the Old Firm near the top of the list). However, my point was that for those who appear to deem true 'Scottishness' to be dependent on supporting independence there are as many who just don't see why we're so different from folk living in all parts of the UK. The old adage that we have more that unites us than divides us holds strong for me and I personally think that warts and all the UK as a whole is a pretty great place.

What I also feel is overlooked by the nationalists is that for many their preference to remain British is irrespective of politics. Governments come and go.

Oh and the fact that the SNP personify the worst traits of the stereotypical Scot (dour, humourless and with an incessant chip on their shoulder) does nothing to endear them to those content to remain British and Scottish.

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Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998

She never called it mate. She came up with some excuse about uncertainty around Brexit and then waiting for the general election where Boris got elected. Covid eventually became the issue but the dithering started long before then.

Now the excuse from Blackford is Ukraine, despite Holyrood and the SNP having no involvement in UK foreign policy.

The SNP will keep kicking the can down the road until such time as they think they can win a referendum - could be waiting a while. I just wonder how long the nationalist supporters will fall for it.

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I remember some of the period you refer to and it was filled with senior English politicians claiming it would be illegal and/or immoral to hold another referendum. Javid when running for Tory leader memorably said he "wouldn't allow it". Wasn't Nandy at that time implying that Sturgeon, if she went ahead, should be dealt with like Catalonian rebels (ie prosecuted and jailed)? Not sure whether 'dithering' accurately describes the nature of the discourse at the time.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Indeed. I wasn't actually meaning to imply I'm an especially proud Scot either. There's plenty not to be proud of (with the vast anachronism known as the Old Firm near the top of the list). However, my point was that for those who appear to deem true 'Scottishness' to be dependent on supporting independence there are as many who just don't see why we're so different from folk living in all parts of the UK. The old adage that we have more that unites us than divides us holds strong for me and I personally think that warts and all the UK as a whole is a pretty great place.

What I also feel is overlooked by the nationalists is that for many their preference to remain British is irrespective of politics. Governments come and go.

Oh and the fact that the SNP personify the worst traits of the stereotypical Scot (dour, humourless and with an incessant chip on their shoulder) does nothing to endear them to those content to remain British and Scottish.

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It’s a heavy price we pay for that Britishness when you look at the prosperity of our neighbours. For some, that’s a price worth paying. More and more people are taking a different view.


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Originally Posted by Mcbizz1998

She never called it mate. She came up with some excuse about uncertainty around Brexit and then waiting for the general election where Boris got elected. Covid eventually became the issue but the dithering started long before then.

Now the excuse from Blackford is Ukraine, despite Holyrood and the SNP having no involvement in UK foreign policy.

The SNP will keep kicking the can down the road until such time as they think they can win a referendum - could be waiting a while. I just wonder how long the nationalist supporters will fall for it.


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I can only speak personally, but I for one, as a long-time independence supporter (far more pro-independence than pro SNP/Nicola Sturgeon etc) would undoubtedly prefer to see some sort of stability/hope/resolution regarding Ukraine before any campaigning or talk of referendums are ramped-up again. Some things simply are more important right now regardless of who is involved politically.

Do you think you and others would be understanding and welcoming if Ian Blackford stood-up and WAS calling for a referendum right now amongst all the debate and crisis-talk over Ukraine?

When you say 'fall for it'.. do you not think Indy supporters would prefer to have the referendum at a time they think they can win too? Don't get me wrong, I think we're already in a position that we THINK we can win.. but if your theory is that we can't win just now, why would we object to waiting a little longer?

I could easily be missing something but I find it quite unique that your main argument against the SNP is they are not calling a referendum quick enough, when all I've heard over the past few years from Douglas Ross, Boris Johnson and the other Tory/Unionist advocates are that it's not the time and Scottish people don't want another divisive referendum etc. Why are you so concerned about the timing of a referendum, if you don't mind me asking?

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

SNP got 47/41% last year. Or 45% in 2019 GE. Higher than Tories in UK btw.

I would suggest there is a Tory UK ceiling at about 45% - Johnson got 43 even with his new anti-immigration coalition and Thatcher only managed a high of 44. Thanks to Westminster's super duper system, that's all you need though. How unifying.

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I don't think any of that contradicts or addresses what I posted. If they can't pull ahead amid all this as evidenced by the polls on independence and after 14 years of uninterrupted power on the Salmond/Sturgeon ticket then supporters will be starting to ask some hard questions, as indeed seems to be the case judging by social media.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Indeed. I wasn't actually meaning to imply I'm an especially proud Scot either. There's plenty not to be proud of (with the vast anachronism known as the Old Firm near the top of the list). However, my point was that for those who appear to deem true 'Scottishness' to be dependent on supporting independence there are as many who just don't see why we're so different from folk living in all parts of the UK. The old adage that we have more that unites us than divides us holds strong for me and I personally think that warts and all the UK as a whole is a pretty great place.

What I also feel is overlooked by the nationalists is that for many their preference to remain British is irrespective of politics. Governments come and go.

Oh and the fact that the SNP personify the worst traits of the stereotypical Scot (dour, humourless and with an incessant chip on their shoulder) does nothing to endear them to those content to remain British and Scottish.

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I can't help thinking you must have stronger arguments than the above for being so anti-independence surely, HH?

"those who appear to deem true 'Scottishness' to be dependent on supporting independence" Who are these people? I've still never encountered them.

"many who just don't see why we're so different from folk living in all parts of the UK" I guess it depends on what you mean by different. We don't, as a country vote tory, and we didn't vote for Brexit for example?

"What I also feel is overlooked by the nationalists is that for many their preference to remain British is irrespective of politics" Okay, but a decision on independence is very much a political one. And if our argument was that we just want to be 'Scottish' and not 'British' regardless of politics, we'd be scorned at with quotes of 'Braveheart' and 'anti English'

"Governments come and go." They do, but they are most often Tory, and never the one Scotland votes for.

"the SNP personify the worst traits of the stereotypical Scot (dour, humourless and with an incessant chip on their shoulder)" I won't entertain this with a retort about the traits of people like Boris and Jacob RM:greengrin

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Indeed. I wasn't actually meaning to imply I'm an especially proud Scot either. There's plenty not to be proud of (with the vast anachronism known as the Old Firm near the top of the list). However, my point was that for those who appear to deem true 'Scottishness' to be dependent on supporting independence there are as many who just don't see why we're so different from folk living in all parts of the UK. The old adage that we have more that unites us than divides us holds strong for me and I personally think that warts and all the UK as a whole is a pretty great place.

What I also feel is overlooked by the nationalists is that for many their preference to remain British is irrespective of politics. Governments come and go.

Oh and the fact that the SNP personify the worst traits of the stereotypical Scot (dour, humourless and with an incessant chip on their shoulder) does nothing to endear them to those content to remain British and Scottish.

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I don't think I actually know anybody like that (although I accept from twitter zoomerati evidence that they exist).

For me, indy is about the chance to live in a smaller, reformed state, which I believe will improve the lives of those around me. And recently, add to get back into Europe to that. Most people in Britain don't want these things. A significant number of Scots like yourself don't either. But there is some hope that a majority might appear here in my lifetime to get it done. Hope so.

As to the "not so different" thing. Yes, that's true to an extent but it's also true about Ireland and I don't feel an iota different about my Irish friends and family than I do about my English friends and family.

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

I don't think any of that contradicts or addresses what I posted. If they can't pull ahead amid all this as evidenced by the polls on independence and after 14 years of uninterrupted power on the Salmond/Sturgeon ticket then supporters will be starting to ask some hard questions, as indeed seems to be the case judging by social media.

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When the Tories came to power independence was polling at about 27%. It’s now at 50%. And you interpret that as the SNP not making progress against a Tory govt in Westminster?[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

I don't think any of that contradicts or addresses what I posted. If they can't pull ahead amid all this as evidenced by the polls on independence and after 14 years of uninterrupted power on the Salmond/Sturgeon ticket then supporters will be starting to ask some hard questions, as indeed seems to be the case judging by social media.

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1. A rise in Lab support is a short term drag on Indy support.
2. Even with a determined push for a ref, it won't be agreed with UK in the short term. Managing that is going to be tricky. I wouldn't personally put money on a ref happening until after the next UK GE.
3. I don't think you should judge real life by social media. Yes there is an excitable nat wing on twitter but most of it left for Alba.
4. Other than that we've gone from 45/55 to 50/50 over NS' tenure. From 30ish to 50 over the 14 years.
5. We'll get there in the end.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

When the Tories came to power independence was polling at about 27%. It’s now at 50%. And you interpret that as the SNP not making progress against a Tory govt in Westminster?[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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Did you just not read my posts or did you choose to deliberately try to gaslight by completely misrepresenting my points?

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

I don't think any of that contradicts or addresses what I posted. If they can't pull ahead amid all this as evidenced by the polls on independence and after 14 years of uninterrupted power on the Salmond/Sturgeon ticket then supporters will be starting to ask some hard questions, as indeed seems to be the case judging by social media.

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I'm not saying your overall point is incorrect, but I gave up judging anything by social media a while back. In fact I pretty much gave up on social media altogether :greengrin (he says while typing on an online forum)

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

1. A rise in Lab support is a short term drag on Indy support.
2. Even with a determined push for a ref, it won't be agreed with UK in the short term. Managing that is going to be tricky. I wouldn't personally put money on a ref happening until after the next UK GE.
3. I don't think you should judge real life by social media. Yes there is an excitable nat wing on twitter but most of it left for Alba.
4. Other than that we've gone from 45/55 to 50/50 over NS' tenure. From 30ish to 50 over the 14 years.
5. We'll get there in the end.

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Again, my core point remains. Circumstances as propitious as they can be for raising support for independence and yet No remains stubbornly ahead. All the while the same negatives result in a Labour lead in the UK over a four month period. Why isn't Sturgeon getting Yes over the line in this context?

It's not the rise in Labour support being a short term drag on support for independence because No has been ahead in 21 of the last 30 polls on the subject going back to April '21 and its been tied in another 6. Yes has led in just 3. Yes was becalmed long before Johnson and Partygate kicked off in November '21.

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

I'm not saying your overall point is incorrect, but I gave up judging anything by social media a while back. In fact I pretty much gave up on social media altogether :greengrin (he says while typing on an online forum)

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Yes, there's definitely a lot to be said for avoiding social media and doomscrolling. And to be fair, taking social media as strong evidence for or against anything is far from definitive so I'm going to go right ahead and agree with you on that and concede the point there.

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

Again, my core point remains. Circumstances as propitious as they can be for raising support for independence and yet No remains stubbornly ahead. All the while the same negatives result in a Labour lead in the UK over a four month period. Why isn't Sturgeon getting Yes over the line in this context?

It's not the rise in Labour support being a short term drag on support for independence because No has been ahead in 21 of the last 30 polls on the subject going back to April '21 and its been tied in another 6. Yes has led in just 3. Yes was becalmed long before Johnson and Partygate kicked off in November '21.

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I don't accept this core point. Yes, Johnson is an utter ********. But a pandemic is probably about as propitious as it could get for Unionists. "Don't take risks, come and be safe in our big state in uncertain times". Yet even with that Yes support is stubbornly high and over the long term inexorably increasing.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

I don't accept this core point. Yes, Johnson is an utter ********. But a pandemic is probably about as propitious as it could get for Unionists. "Don't take risks, come and be safe in our big state in uncertain times". Yet even with that Yes support is stubbornly high and over the long term inexorably increasing.

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What's the long term? Yes support is currently pretty much where was 8 years ago in the referendum.

A pandemic is as good for sitting governments as it is for the constitutional status quo. Yet Starmer's Labour is ahead of the government on a sustained basis, while Yes can't develop a lead. I'm not complaining BTW :greengrin.

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

What's the long term? Yes support is currently pretty much where was 8 years ago in the referendum.

A pandemic is as good for sitting governments as it is for the constitutional status quo. Yet Starmer's Labour is ahead of the government on a sustained basis, while Yes can't develop a lead. I'm not complaining BTW :greengrin.

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I'm not sure I'd be getting that excited, "sustained" for about 3 months and looks like it's tightening again already:

https://i.ibb.co/0GqRWgP/Screenshot-...t-15-17-46.png

The Tories will ditch Johnson if they actually think they're going to lose. Personally I'm desperate to see the back of him, regardless of how "propitious" or not he is. Makes my skin crawl.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Sounds like a scam. Any tax refund I’ve had comes by cheque.

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It’s definitely not a scam. Two others in my family have had these in recent years. If you do nothing you eventually get a cheque if you log in you get it paid to your bank within five days.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

I've seen you post this line before, so will oblige. :wink:

We've no idea what the UK will become in the future. So many lies in the past doesn't fill me with confidence though.

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Yeah but any referendum is about independence or the status quo. What it becomes is not part of the equation unless the government of the day are proposing changes as part of that deal. So the onus is on the SNP to be clear on the proposition they have. If it’s a strong case then the onus is on the uk government to put a better offer forward.

On a positive note the debate on here in the last few days has been better and much less whataboutery which I think helps.

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Originally Posted by Skol

Yeah but any referendum is about independence or the status quo. What it becomes is not part of the equation unless the government of the day are proposing changes as part of that deal. So the onus is on the SNP to be clear on the proposition they have. If it’s a strong case then the onus is on the uk government to put a better offer forward.

On a positive note the debate on here in the last few days has been better and much less whataboutery which I think helps.

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Is that true of referendums though? Taking the Brexit referendum as an example, many people voted for Brexit based on where they felt the status quo of the UK within the EU was heading (increaded immigration, EU army, joining the Euro etc) rather than for any supposed benefits of Brexit.

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Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

Is that true of referendums though? Taking the Brexit referendum as an example, many people voted for Brexit based on where they felt the status quo of the UK within the EU was heading (increaded immigration, EU army, joining the Euro etc) rather than for any supposed benefits of Brexit.

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I guess everyone will have their own reasons for any vote they make and there will be many reasons

Just done some quick calcs on the tax letter I have and am surprised by how little extra tax I have paid over and above had I been a uk tax payer. I had thought it would be more.

Thinking about the tax refund I reckon it might be connected to me claiming the wfh tax allowance which is did very close to the tax year end.. which remind me I need to claim it when I log in to get my refund paid to my bank. Just need to locate my government gateway details so I can login though

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Originally Posted by Skol

I guess everyone will have their own reasons for any vote they make and there will be many reasons

Just done some quick calcs on the tax letter I have and am surprised by how little extra tax I have paid over and above had I been a uk tax payer. I had thought it would be more.

Thinking about the tax refund I reckon it might be connected to me claiming the wfh tax allowance which is did very close to the tax year end.. which remind me I need to claim it when I log in to get my refund paid to my bank. Just need to locate my government gateway details so I can login though

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I got the same letter for a refund around £70 too and also claim the WFH allowance so you could be right.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Indeed. I wasn't actually meaning to imply I'm an especially proud Scot either. There's plenty not to be proud of (with the vast anachronism known as the Old Firm near the top of the list). However, my point was that for those who appear to deem true 'Scottishness' to be dependent on supporting independence there are as many who just don't see why we're so different from folk living in all parts of the UK. The old adage that we have more that unites us than divides us holds strong for me and I personally think that warts and all the UK as a whole is a pretty great place.

What I also feel is overlooked by the nationalists is that for many their preference to remain British is irrespective of politics. Governments come and go.

Oh and the fact that the SNP personify the worst traits of the stereotypical Scot (dour, humourless and with an incessant chip on their shoulder) does nothing to endear them to those content to remain British and Scottish.

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I genuinely do think think there is more that unites than divides us with most of the UK, but I still feel that independence is the best route for Scotland. I have Scottish relatives that have lived in England, are English and I have too - my wife is half English.

In spite of that I would vote for independence tomorrow. The English establishment has lost its mind, and as such a significant proportion of the English electorate have too. You only have to look at the very recent stuff with the Ukrainian refugees if you want evidence of just how ****ed up the UK’s perception or foreigners is.

I find it repulsive.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

I genuinely do think think there is more that unites than divides us with most of the UK, but I still feel that independence is the best route for Scotland. I have Scottish relatives that have lived in England, are English and I have too - my wife is half English.

In spite of that I would vote for independence tomorrow. The English establishment has lost its mind, and as such a significant proportion of the English electorate have too. You only have to look at the very recent stuff with the Ukrainian refugees if you want evidence of just how ****ed up the UK’s perception or foreigners is.

I find it repulsive.

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Good post - a lot of that applies to myself. I’m just not married 😂

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Originally Posted by Skol

Yeah but any referendum is about independence or the status quo. What it becomes is not part of the equation unless the government of the day are proposing changes as part of that deal. So the onus is on the SNP to be clear on the proposition they have. If it’s a strong case then the onus is on the uk government to put a better offer forward.

On a positive note the debate on here in the last few days has been better and much less whataboutery which I think helps.

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Independence in Europe or staying with Little Britain. That'll do for me. Now we just need to get a bus and a painter. :aok:

The case for the Union...https://twitter.com/RobDunsmore/stat...95684166438915 :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Skol

It’s definitely not a scam. Two others in my family have had these in recent years. If you do nothing you eventually get a cheque if you log in you get it paid to your bank within five days.

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Yeah. Most refunds are paid directly these days.

Be wary with your GG log-in though. There's a few scams around relating to them.

https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1502293996122607618 :aok:

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1502293996122607618 :aok:

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Of course energy bills and food bills would never have risen in an independent Scotland .

The SNP would have found a magic money tree to fund the vaccination program , the covid recover funds and all the other expenses over the last two years.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Of course energy bills and food bills would never have risen in an independent Scotland .

The SNP would have found a magic money tree to fund the vaccination program , the covid recover funds and all the other expenses over the last two years.

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Glad you're onboard. 👍

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Glad you're onboard. 👍

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Yep, your post has found its rightful place under this thread’s title. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Yep, your post has found its rightful place under this thread’s title. :greengrin

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Better than the first post anyway. 👍😂

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Of course energy bills and food bills would never have risen in an independent Scotland .

The SNP would have found a magic money tree to fund the vaccination program , the covid recover funds and all the other expenses over the last two years.

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People in Ireland, Denmark, Norway etc appear to be weathering the storm better than Scotland. Why is that?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Of course energy bills and food bills would never have risen in an independent Scotland .

The SNP would have found a magic money tree to fund the vaccination program , the covid recover funds and all the other expenses over the last two years.

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So just like every other government of similar size then? Like Ireland for example? Or Denmark?

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Originally Posted by greenginger

The SNP would have found a magic money tree to fund the vaccination program , the covid recover funds and all the other expenses over the last two years.

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I wonder if you're going to wake up this morning and realise what a silly late night post this was.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

So just like every other government of similar size then? Like Ireland for example? Or Denmark?

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Don't be ridiculous

Comparing Scotland to other independent nations of similar size to prove your point that we could easily not just survive but thrive as an independant nation doenst make any sense

Only the broad shoulders of Westminster encompassing this family of nations can save us

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

Don't be ridiculous

Comparing Scotland to other independent nations of similar size to prove your point that we could easily not just survive but thrive as an independant nation doenst make any sense

Only the broad shoulders of Westminster encompassing this family of nations can save us

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

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Oh yeah. Never mind, praise the union.

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

Don't be ridiculous

Comparing Scotland to other independent nations of similar size to prove your point that we could easily not just survive but thrive as an independant nation doenst make any sense

Only the broad shoulders of Westminster encompassing this family of nations can save us

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

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If making comparisons with other independent nations, it might be more helpful and persuasive to provide some stats to gain more insight. For example can you list the income tax rates in Denmark, Norway and Ireland, the amount of workers in their population who pay income tax, the percentage of workers who are public sector workers and the percentage of the population reliant on welfare payments. I'd find that information interesting and informative. TIA.

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

If making comparisons with other independent nations, it might be more helpful and persuasive to provide some stats to gain more insight. For example can you list the income tax rates in Denmark, Norway and Ireland, the amount of workers in their population who pay income tax, the percentage of workers who are public sector workers and the percentage of the population reliant on welfare payments. I'd find that information interesting and informative. TIA.

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https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ies-to-live-in

Article on that sort of stuff here. UK comes in at an impressive 13th although Scotland would likely be a bit below that if it was there. Most of our near neighbours are top 10 though.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

If making comparisons with other independent nations, it might be more helpful and persuasive to provide some stats to gain more insight. For example can you list the income tax rates in Denmark, Norway and Ireland, the amount of workers in their population who pay income tax, the percentage of workers who are public sector workers and the percentage of the population reliant on welfare payments. I'd find that information interesting and informative. TIA.

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I'm sure you can dig that info out - I'm not Sir David Gray [emoji23]

Can you provide me an example of another country that is bound by the same political set up we have in the UK?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

If making comparisons with other independent nations, it might be more helpful and persuasive to provide some stats to gain more insight. For example can you list the income tax rates in Denmark, Norway and Ireland, the amount of workers in their population who pay income tax, the percentage of workers who are public sector workers and the percentage of the population reliant on welfare payments. I'd find that information interesting and informative. TIA.

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It's a fair point, all this we can be Denmark or Ireland risks turning into a meaningless slogan unless it's actually backed up with a plan that says here is where Scotland is today, here is where we want to get to and we will get to this place by doing X, Y and Z. I don't think I am wrong in saying everyone would like to see this?

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Originally Posted by James310

It's a fair point, all this we can be Denmark or Ireland risks turning into a meaningless slogan unless it's actually backed up with a plan that says here is where Scotland is today, here is where we want to get to and we will get to this place by doing X, Y and Z. I don't think I am wrong in saying everyone would like to see this?

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I’d like to see even an intention from the UK govt for us to get there, never mind an actual plan? Right now, all we are being told is ‘it’s impossible’.

It’s good to see an acknowledgement of the fact we are lagging behind though in our current set up.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

I'm sure you can dig that info out - I'm not Sir David Gray [emoji23]

Can you provide me an example of another country that is bound by the same political set up we have in the UK?

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No probs, just think if you and other posters are going to make continual comparisons with other similarly sized nations, you might make a more persuasive case by providing some stats to back it up.

Re: your 2nd question, why would I, what purpose does it serve? We've voted already and the majority were happy to retain the current political set up.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ies-to-live-in

Article on that sort of stuff here. UK comes in at an impressive 13th although Scotland would likely be a bit below that if it was there. Most of our near neighbours are top 10 though.


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Ta.