Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

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Originally Posted by wookie70

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

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I think Nicola Sturgeon is trying to prevent thousands of deaths which could be avoided. What do you think her motives are?

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Originally Posted by wookie70

You may go into a hospital triage situation and lose your spot to someone who is ill because of their own actions. You may also sit next to someone at ER with Flu at any time in the last hundred years and that kills you. My argument is about risk, choice and exclusion. You could of course sit next to someone who is double vaccinated who passes Covid on to you too.

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You may go into a hospital triage situation and lose your spot to someone who is ill because of their own actions.

That's very true, that could be through smoking, drinking, skiing, crashing their car, falling off a ladder while painting the ceiling, gang violence, drug abuse, accidental overdose, attempted suicide, where do you draw the line? :dunno: Bearing in mind in certain situations you'd have to draw that line pretty ****ing quickly!

You may also sit next to someone at ER with Flu at any time in the last hundred years and that kills you.

Again, completely true. Covid seems to be transmissible throughout the year, whereas flu tends to be most prevalent in winter, and you can get a flu jab which lessens the likelihood of catching it, but I don't know anything about asymptomatic transmission once vaccinated.

You could of course sit next to someone who is double vaccinated who passes Covid on to you too.

Yet again, you're not wrong! But the evidence points to a majority of the double vaccinated not catching Covid and being less likely to pass it on if they do.
As for risk and choice, I would choose to be seated beside double vaccinated people to reduce the risk to myself, my family and those around me.

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Originally Posted by wookie70

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

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If you’re 17 and want to go to the pub, the government says no, you have to be 18.

If you’re 15 and want to buy cigarettes, the government says no.

If you want to drive 100 miles across the country in an hour…the government says no.

The government putting rules in place, for the good of society as a whole, isn’t a new thing.

There are already countries in the world you can’t visit without being vaccinated, for things other than covid.

"Mr Anti-Vax" dies

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.w...19-battle/amp/

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Originally Posted by Mr Fezziwig

No. I am just correct.

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Aye ok. Right you are then.

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Originally Posted by 007

I think Nicola Sturgeon is trying to prevent thousands of deaths which could be avoided. What do you think her motives are?

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*awaits the first one to slaver "powwwwwer" it's all about powerrrr honest

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Originally Posted by 007

Mr Anti-Vax" dies

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.w...19-battle/amp/

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coincidence, i just put a link up on the covid thread

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Wonder if your season ticket could be invalid until you can show your vaccine passport?

Would seem unnecessary to show it every week.

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How do you show your vaccine status ? you can’t get it other than by post ( or photocopy someone else’s) cause we insist on being different from rUK rather that use the “oven ready” deal

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Originally Posted by easty

If you’re 17 and want to go to the pub, the government says no, you have to be 18.

If you’re 15 and want to buy cigarettes, the government says no.

If you want to drive 100 miles across the country in an hour…the government says no.

The government putting rules in place, for the good of society as a whole, isn’t a new thing.

There are already countries in the world you can’t visit without being vaccinated, for things other than covid.

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Does anyone actually follow these rules and if not what’s the consequences?

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Originally Posted by 007

I think Nicola Sturgeon is trying to prevent thousands of deaths which could be avoided. What do you think her motives are?

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Control

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Originally Posted by uwxm07

Does anyone actually follow these rules and if not what’s the consequences?

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Everyone knows the answers to these questions. Surely you don't need someone to state the obvious to you.

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Originally Posted by 007

Mr Anti-Vax" dies

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.w...19-battle/amp/

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There is a massive difference in these folk that are "anti-vax" and spout antecdotal nonsense with social media substance, to the other folks that are uncomfortable with a rushed out emergency "vaccine" (i accept in the US the Pfizer is now an official vaccine) who have various vaccines inside them that are tried and tested properly with decades of data, but yes Mr Anti vax is dead, as are another 2 on the radio from Florida, i can look that up and believe the BBC also along with the very prominent stories of all the other anti vax people that wished they had go tthe vaccine.

On the matter of getting into Easter Road, if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death

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Originally Posted by pedroorange1875

There is a massive difference in these folk that are "anti-vax" and spout antecdotal nonsense with social media substance, to the other folks that are uncomfortable with a rushed out emergency "vaccine" (i accept in the US the Pfizer is now an official vaccine) who have various vaccines inside them that are tried and tested properly with decades of data, but yes Mr Anti vax is dead, as are another 2 on the radio from Florida, i can look that up and believe the BBC also along with the very prominent stories of all the other anti vax people that wished they had go tthe vaccine.

On the matter of getting into Easter Road, if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death

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:brickwall The most severe thing that can happen is DEATH. Either to yourself or someone you pass the virus onto.

Double vaccinated people are less likely to catch the virus, less likely to spread it and less likely to be hospitalised, but if they catch it there is a possibility they will DIE.

Unvaccinated people are more likely to catch the virus, more likely to spread it, have a higher likelihood of hospitalisation and of DYING.

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Originally Posted by pedroorange1875

There is a massive difference in these folk that are "anti-vax" and spout antecdotal nonsense with social media substance, to the other folks that are uncomfortable with a rushed out emergency "vaccine" (i accept in the US the Pfizer is now an official vaccine) who have various vaccines inside them that are tried and tested properly with decades of data, but yes Mr Anti vax is dead, as are another 2 on the radio from Florida, i can look that up and believe the BBC also along with the very prominent stories of all the other anti vax people that wished they had go tthe vaccine.

On the matter of getting into Easter Road, if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death

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A lot of those people are probably uncomfortable because they believe stuff they've read on Facebook which has likely been spread by Russian disinformation farms or something similar. There is plenty of information available explaining how scientists were able to develop vaccines for COVID-19 at a much faster pace.

For some bizarre reason a lot of people readily believe what they read on Facebook from an unknown source don't believe some of the most qualified people on virology on the planet when they appear on national TV.

You said "if all the folks have the vaccine and all the figures are as accurate as the BBC says then why is there a restriction, as the most that will happen is a "mild symptom" period that will not lead to hospital or death"

That doesn't make sense. You are asking if all the folks have the vaccine then why the restriction?

I'm not sure why this is controversial at all. We have a left leaning Govt in Scotland, right wing in the UK, and centrist in France all adopting similar measures. And that's just off the top of my head. That tells me there is a broad, well understood scientific basis for this given its attracted action from politicians across the political spectrum.

Ultimately its the same any discourse about freedoms - your freedom ends at the point it starts to infringe on mine. You can't shout fire in a crowded theatre as it it could lead to a panic, stampede etc and hurt others. This is no different. Why should you be able to enjoy life as normal when you are at greater risk of causing serous hurt or death to others.

The other thing that strikes me is how many people not taking the vaccine say "but I've had covid and been fine etc". That sums it up for me. Great for you, not so great for others.

All the slippery slope stuff falls under the slippery slope fallacy. There is no credible evidence Govts are doing this for any other reason. Just saying "ah but what if" isn't a cohesive argument, and can be used against any change.

I would extend the vaccine passport to any non essential indoor venue including pubs, restaurants and cafes but this is probably a reasonable start. I think more will be needed though as we go into winter.

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

I thought the poster was England based.

J

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Apologies :aok:

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Originally Posted by wookie70

There is coercion though. You may be excluded from events for not taking it. Someone carrying both a vaccination card and covid will be allowed in but someone with neither a card or the virus won't.

Has the government, for citizens within the UK, ever restricted liberty within our countries on the back of someone making a personal and imo private medical decision.

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I’d never been in a National lockdown until last March.

The rule book is out the window now. These are changed times.

J

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

I cant speak for anyone else but there are a few reasons I chose not to have it. Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one. I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case. Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity. These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it.

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Getting Covid doesn’t make you immune. The jab is no different to the flu jab. It’s to protect you but it’s not 100%. Just like the flu. I know people that have been positive for Covid 3 times now. You have no medical reason for not getting the jab so why not get it. Also did your parents not bother with MMR jabs for you. Or if you have kids did you not bother with that either?

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/...4ZhqSfEHR_aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

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I don't doubt your figures but, to add perspective, there were no deaths in England in July as a result of being vaccinated. (Source: ONS)
If we didn't have access to jabs am sure the death toll would have been pretty gruesome and we would probably still be heavily restricted.
I assume most people who get seriously ill or even die after taking the vaccine have underlying issues which might not even have been flagged up beforehand.
Having said all that I don't agree with compulsory vaccination but do accept that if you choose not to get it then there may be consequences.

So when do we expect an announcement? English based hibee here looking to come up at the end of the month for the St Johnstone game but not booking it if I can't get in. Can't justify the price not to see the hibees.

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Originally Posted by Tambo

So when do we expect an announcement? English based hibee here looking to come up at the end of the month for the St Johnstone game but not booking it if I can't get in. Can't justify the price not to see the hibees.

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It's to be debated in parliament next week and will come into effect later this month.

I'd think it should be in place by the St Johnstone game, barring any unforeseen circumstances.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

https://changingtimes.media/2021/02/...4ZhqSfEHR_aSBY

The WHO’s VigiBase, VAERS, EudraVigilance, and other databases list hundreds of thousands of reported adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, including thousands of deaths.

As politicians, health authorities, and a mostly enthusiastic public express joy and relief at what they view as the beginning of the end of the pandemic, sceptics point to the growing number of adverse reactions after Covid vaccination, the risks of long-term adverse effects, and the lack of conclusive evidence that vaccination is preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection and virus spread.

The World Health Organisation’s pharmacovigilance database, VigiBase, lists more than 1.7 million reports of adverse reactions following Covid vaccination, including more than 9,500 deaths.

The global death toll from Covid-19 is now put at more than 4.2 million.

Differences in viewpoints about Covid vaccination, and particularly about the implementation of Covid vaccine certificates and the prospect of generalised mandatory vaccination, are causing relationship breakdowns, including traumatic splits in families.

Those who have chosen not to receive a Covid vaccination are shamed and the hesitant are pressured. Financial and other incentives to encourage people to get a Covid vaccination are becoming increasingly widespread.

Most mainstream journalists dismiss or condemn all vaccine hesitancy as wrong and, on social media, serious abuse is levelled at those who argue that they have the right to refuse Covid vaccination. Employers are increasingly making Covid vaccination a requirement for their staff.

There is particular disquiet about DNA and RNA vaccines, which have never previously been approved for human use.

There are concerns that there will, with spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, be pathogenic priming, also known as disease enhancement.

During studies of spike protein vaccines against SARS-CoV-1, the exposure of vaccinated animals to the virus led to increased morbidity and mortality.

There is also worry about mix-and-match experiments and potential problems when people are given one dose of one vaccine and a booster of a different one.


This isn't the lunatic fringe speaking. People need to start asking questions and mainstream media don't really offer much a platform for a dissenting view.

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You really need to change the media you read because that is bat **** crazy. Changing dna 😆 rna has been studied for 30 years and it's great it works so well, there is now a hiv vaccine that uses rna that has a lot of hope.

Of the million plus side affects that can include headache fatigue and tiredness. There has never been a more closely studied vaccine in history. They took their time but now has full approval in the US for example, its anything but experimental. Its estimated the roll out has already saved more than 100,000 lives in the UK alone so far.

Get vaccinated tell your friends to get vaccinated, if they don't you can tell them how the hibs game went whilst they were at IKEA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5a6bc8d2-62cd-4470-8a42-5ebb054c6ae3

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Originally Posted by Tambo

So when do we expect an announcement? English based hibee here looking to come up at the end of the month for the St Johnstone game but not booking it if I can't get in. Can't justify the price not to see the hibees.

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English app will work to get you in, just like it does in the eu

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

I cant speak for anyone else but there are a few reasons I chose not to have it. Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one. I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case. Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity. These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it.

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Jesus christ man

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

Joe Bloggs by not getting vaccinated could be incubating a super strain of Covid (call it Theta).

Theta is resistant to vaccines and is hyper transmittable. You would be Donald ducked.

The less hosts Covid has, the smaller the opportunity it has to mutate.

Having Vaccine passports is a step to “incentivise” people to get the jags and prevent mutations.

J

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Evidence suggests the virus mutates more amongst vaccinated populations as it has to, being blocked by the vaccinated host. So the unvaccinated are possibly in greater danger from the vaccinated rather than the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

Evidence suggests the virus mutates more amongst vaccinated populations as it has to, being blocked by the vaccinated host. So the unvaccinated are possibly in greater danger from the vaccinated rather than the other way around.

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What evidence are you referring to? Everything I have read suggests that the more virus in circulation, the higher chances of mutation. And although vaccines don't entirely stop transmission, they greatly reduce it.

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Originally Posted by mcohibs

Jesus christ man

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The recent mass Israeli study which received global publicity (outside of the UK) suggested that antibodies from having had Covid were thirteen times more likely to give protection from it than any vaccine. So his approach is a sensible one, provided he has regular antibody tests every few months to ensure they are still in his system. If they are he should stay as he is. If not, he should get vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by Brightside

Getting Covid doesn’t make you immune. The jab is no different to the flu jab. It’s to protect you but it’s not 100%. Just like the flu. I know people that have been positive for Covid 3 times now. You have no medical reason for not getting the jab so why not get it. Also did your parents not bother with MMR jabs for you. Or if you have kids did you not bother with that either?

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I think the difference for him is, you’re not forced to get the flu jab to go to the football even though you can pass that on also... you also mentioned players haven’t got fully vaccinated. Is there a lot to you’re knowledge that haven’t?

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Originally Posted by Brightside

Getting Covid doesn’t make you immune. The jab is no different to the flu jab. It’s to protect you but it’s not 100%. Just like the flu. I know people that have been positive for Covid 3 times now. You have no medical reason for not getting the jab so why not get it. Also did your parents not bother with MMR jabs for you. Or if you have kids did you not bother with that either?

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Without wanting to sound like a dick, you have no clue what you are talking about. The jag is used to create an immune response in your body so having the jag and getting covid both give you the same protection.


How long were mmr vaccines tested prior to being rolled out?

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Originally Posted by mcohibs

Jesus christ man

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What exactly is so outrageous about any of they reasons?

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Originally Posted by Brummie_Hibs

What is it that medically except folk have, that means they can attend these events without being vaccinated, that normal people don't have?

Do they have superpowers, are they X-Men?, can't they catch or spread covid?

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The difference is that there are far fewer of them.

This post, along with the earlier one where you said…

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Originally Posted by Brummie_Hibs

Vaccinated people apparently don't get ill as much. So if you are fully vaccinated and the person next to you isn't, then it shouldn't matter one iota to you.

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…both suggest you're looking at this from an all-or-nothing point of view – either the vaccine 100% prevents infection or it has zero effect on infection, either everyone in the ground needs to be vaccinated or no one does. But that's not how any of this works, no measure is going to be 100% successful, it's all about percentages and reduction of risk.

The vaccine reduces (without completely preventing) your risk of infection, so you're more likely to be infected by an unvaccinated person sitting next to you. If you are infected by the person next to you, the vaccine means it's unlikely that you'll get seriously ill or die, but it doesn't make it impossible.

A higher rate of infection in the population increases the chance of a dangerous mutation emerging – more people being vaccinated (and therefore having a lower chance of catching and passing on covid) contributes to reducing infection rate.

Medically exempt people are presumably a very small percentage, so their contribution to increasing the risk of spreading infection is small. Of course if the government wanted to reduce the risk of large-scale events as far as possible, they wouldn't allow medical exemptions, but that (rightly) would be deemed socially unacceptable. Likewise, if the government truly wanted to reduce the risk as far as possible, we would hardly have left the house at all since March last year.

All of these measures are a balancing act between reducing risk and allowing normal life to continue. You may think that the wrong balance has been struck, but looking at every measure in binary, all-or-nothing terms doesn't reflect reality.

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

What exactly is so outrageous about any of they reasons?

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Probably the experimental bit for one. It's been well documented how the vaccine was created, and how they achieved it in the time they did.

Also, the reliance on having had covid to give you immunity. Evidence suggests short-term immunity. I've had covid too, I realise I will have had short-term immunity. But I'm getting my second jab today.

Your other option is to lose your immunity, get covid again, then be immune for a while, then repeat until you run out of luck.

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Without wanting to sound like a dick, you have no clue what you are talking about. The jag is used to create an immune response in your body so having the jag and getting covid both give you the same protection.


How long were mmr vaccines tested prior to being rolled out?

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The length of time for testing vaccine is irrelevant, but the quantity of tests will be about the same. The covid vaccine was already in development due to the Sars outbreak a while ago and was speeded up with money being poured into developing it.

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

I cant speak for anyone else but there are a few reasons I chose not to have it. Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one. I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case. Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity. These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it.

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= I'm all right Jack. Everyone else can do one.

You're claim it isn't a vaccine is a lie. How does still being able to catch it mean it isn't a vaccine?

Total fabrication by you about it being experimental.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2M70MW

Sounds like you're another who has been brainwashed into believing Facebook disinformation.

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Originally Posted by Zambernardi1875

I think the difference for him is, you’re not forced to get the flu jab to go to the football even though you can pass that on also... you also mentioned players haven’t got fully vaccinated. Is there a lot to you’re knowledge that haven’t?

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Yes. Hence why they were all invited to a meeting with government advisors to try and persuade them to stop reading crap off Facebook and go and get jabbed. The clubs aren’t allowed to force it on them and the majority do not have 2 jabs!!

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Without wanting to sound like a dick, you have no clue what you are talking about. The jag is used to create an immune response in your body so having the jag and getting covid both give you the same protection.


How long were mmr vaccines tested prior to being rolled out?

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I have far more of a clue than you based on your posts on this subject. No one that has had Covid have been advised that they don’t need the jab. If you don’t want one for your hooky ideas that’s fine. Just don’t come to football or public events.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

You really need to change the media you read because that is bat **** crazy. Changing dna 😆 rna has been studied for 30 years and it's great it works so well, there is now a hiv vaccine that uses rna that has a lot of hope.

Of the million plus side affects that can include headache fatigue and tiredness. There has never been a more closely studied vaccine in history. They took their time but now has full approval in the US for example, its anything but experimental. Its estimated the roll out has already saved more than 100,000 lives in the UK alone so far.

Get vaccinated tell your friends to get vaccinated, if they don't you can tell them how the hibs game went whilst they were at IKEA

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft....2-5ebb054c6ae3

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Is the W.H.O mainstream enough for you?

No need to be such a tool about your reply either, I'm already vaccinated and my pals are able enough to think for themselves. You should try it sometime yourself.

Recently, a radically new approach to vaccination has been developed. It involves the direct introduction into appropriate tissues of a plasmid containing the DNA sequence encoding the antigen(s) against which an immune response is sought, and relies on the in situ production of the target antigen. This approach offers a number of potential advantages over traditional approaches, including the stimulation of both B- and T-cell responses, improved vaccine stability, the absence of any infectious agent and the relative ease of large-scale manufacture. As proof of the principle of DNA vaccination, immune responses in animals have been obtained using genes from a variety of infectious agents, including influenza virus, hepatitis B virus, human immunodeficiency virus, rabies virus, lymphocytic chorio-meningitis virus, malarial parasites and mycoplasmas. In some cases, protection from disease in animals has also been obtained. However, the value and advantages of DNA vaccines must be assessed on a case-by-case basis and their applicability will depend on the nature of the agent being immunized against, the nature of the antigen and the type of immune response required for protection.

The field of DNA vaccination is developing rapidly. Vaccines currently being developed use not only DNA, but also include adjuncts that assist DNA to enter cells, target it towards specific cells, or that may act as adjuvants in stimulating or directing the immune response. Ultimately, the distinction between a sophisticated DNA vaccine and a simple viral vector may not be clear. Many aspects of the immune response generated by DNA vaccines are not understood. However, this has not impeded significant progress towards the use of this type of vaccine in humans, and clinical trials have begun.

The first such vaccines licensed for marketing are likely to use plasmid DNA derived from bacterial cells. In future, others may use RNA or may use complexes of nucleic acid molecules and other entities. These guidelines address the production and control of vaccines based on plasmid DNA intended for use in humans. The purpose of these guidelines is to indicate:

appropriate methods for the production and control of plasmid DNA vaccines; and
specific information that should be included in submissions by manufacturers to national control authorities in support of applications for the authorization of clinical trials and marketing.
It is recognized that the development and application of nucleic acid vaccines are evolving rapidly. Thus, their control should be approached in a flexible manner so that it can be modified as experience is gained in production and use. The intention of these guidelines is to provide a scientifically sound basis for the production and control of DNA vaccines intended for use in humans, and to assure their consistent ssafety and efficacy. Individual countries may wish to use these guidelines to develop their own national guidelines for DNA vaccines

Vaccine Quality
Related Health Topics
Treatments: drugs, medicines and procedures
Biologicals
Prevention & Safety
Vaccines and immunization
https://www.who.int/teams/health-pro...es-quality/dna

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Originally Posted by The Spaceman

If we are only excluding 15% of the population from society who are also those who trust Facebook posts by Karen for their news source/self-certified virologists, that’s fine by me 👍 medical exemptions are a different kettle of fish which of course should be respected.

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Not for me, i know it's harsh, but why should they be exempt?

I know a few people that won’t get the vaccine They are mostly people who are into alternative lifestyles and simply believe Thier immune system and vitamins herbal medicines will protect them
But a lot are called Light Workers with Spiritual connections Some are clearly ant any vaccine but others just say if it’s proven after the trials the vaccine works they would take it if still needed
None of the people I know have been ill and none of Thier family have been ill
Would be interested to know why so
Many footballers haven’t taken the jab





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by 007

= I'm all right Jack. Everyone else can do one.

You're claim it isn't a vaccine is a lie. How does still being able to catch it mean it isn't a vaccine?

Total fabrication by you about it being experimental.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2M70MW

Sounds like you're another who has been brainwashed into believing Facebook disinformation.

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Please go and Google dictionary definition of a vaccine and then come back and tell me how it is a vaccine.

Its certainly not a case of im alright Jack, I've worn a mask/sanitised throughout. Your reaction is part of what is talked about earlier making out anyone with a different thought process is a nutter.

I have a degree in the subject and have made my choice based on my knowledge, you think I'm wrong fine.

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

I thought the poster was England based.

J

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I am. Cheers.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Brightside

I have far more of a clue than you based on your posts on this subject. No one that has had Covid have been advised that they don’t need the jab. If you don’t want one for your hooky ideas that’s fine. Just don’t come to football or public events.

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Explain to me how the jag will give a different type of immunity to actually having it then please. You do know what was in the jag and provides the reaction yeah?

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Please go and Google dictionary definition of a vaccine and then come back and tell me how it is a vaccine.

Its certainly not a case of im alright Jack, I've worn a mask/sanitised throughout. Your reaction is part of what is talked about earlier making out anyone with a different thought process is a nutter.

I have a degree in the subject and have made my choice based on my knowledge, you think I'm wrong fine.

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Whats your degree? What do you do for work? Why are your peers (the vast vast majority) disagreeing with you?

Amazing how many people still think that the vaccine can’t stop you getting Covid. There’s a big difference between not being 100% effective at doing it and not doing it at all.

https://fb.watch/7MhJ3UsXsH/

https://fb.watch/7MhPsr49xd/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

I know a few people that won’t get the vaccine They are mostly people who are into alternative lifestyles and simply believe Thier immune system and vitamins herbal medicines will protect them
But a lot are called Light Workers with Spiritual connections Some are clearly ant any vaccine but others just say if it’s proven after the trials the vaccine works they would take it if still needed
None of the people I know have been ill and none of Thier family have been ill
Would be interested to know why so
Many footballers haven’t taken the jab





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I know a girl who is the same. She is into yoga etc and her and lots of her friends have had Covid with hardly any ill effects. Her friends who have had vaccines have all been more ill than those who haven't. All anecdotal but it is fairly clear the fitter and stronger you are the less likely that you will suffer major consequences. Her friends all eat very well and are fit and take wellbeing very seriously. They have made an educated choice and not taken the vaccine. I respect them for than particularly as the girl I know has already had the virus and built up immunity. As a fat 50 odd year old I took the vaccine.

If this is all about safety then everyone who hasn't had two jags should not be allowed to attend regardless of age or medical status.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by easty

Whats your degree? What do you do for work? Why are your peers (the vast vast majority) disagreeing with you?

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Forensic biology, granted not virology however enough to understand the processes of the body pretty well. I do not work in a lab which I am guessing is your point, to make my thoughts on the matter irrelevant. There are not a great deal of peer reviewed papers out there regarding the protection given by natural immunity v those who have had the jags. Once there is my position may change. I'm taking part in the trial looking at the antibodies just now and again the results of that might change my mind.

People have got things wrong in the past and I would rather wait on more information before making this choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wookie70

I know a girl who is the same. She is into yoga etc and her and lots of her friends have had Covid with hardly any ill effects. Her friends who have had vaccines have all been more ill than those who haven't. All anecdotal but it is fairly clear the fitter and stronger you are the less likely that you will suffer major consequences. Her friends all eat very well and are fit and take wellbeing very seriously. They have made an educated choice and not taken the vaccine. I respect them for than particularly as the girl I know has already had the virus and built up immunity. As a fat 50 odd year old I took the vaccine.

If this is all about safety then everyone who hasn't had two jags should not be allowed to attend regardless of age or medical status.

---

But its not about their health. It's about the health of others. This "I'm alright Jack" stuff keeps coming up. They will almost certainly be fine (although they have less chance of issues if vaccinated).

They are putting others at greater risk by not getting it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

What exactly is so outrageous about any of they reasons?

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I mean literally all of it...

"Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one." It is by definition a vaccine - 'a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.'

"I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case". Well done you, great foresight.

"Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity." I'm sure those that are most are risk are delighted that you've taken such a well informed decision to not give a **** about them.

"These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it." Stay off of Facebook mate.

Double vaccinated myself but don't like the idea of a two tier society with people being shut out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wookie70

I know a girl who is the same. She is into yoga etc and her and lots of her friends have had Covid with hardly any ill effects. Her friends who have had vaccines have all been more ill than those who haven't. All anecdotal but it is fairly clear the fitter and stronger you are the less likely that you will suffer major consequences. Her friends all eat very well and are fit and take wellbeing very seriously. They have made an educated choice and not taken the vaccine. I respect them for than particularly as the girl I know has already had the virus and built up immunity. As a fat 50 odd year old I took the vaccine.

If this is all about safety then everyone who hasn't had two jags should not be allowed to attend regardless of age or medical status.

---

I am a fat 63 year old ffs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This thread really shows how big the job is that the government have in their hands, given the wildly different opinions, experiences and knowledge we all have.

It’s probably easier when you can have tanks and guns on the streets rather than a free society where we’re all entitled to an opinion, whether it is one of uber compliance or bat**** crazy conspiracy theory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcohibs

I mean literally all of it...

"Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one." It is by definition a vaccine - 'a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.'

"I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case". Well done you, great foresight.

"Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity." I'm sure those that are most are risk are delighted that you've taken such a well informed decision to not give a **** about them.

"These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it." Stay off of Facebook mate.

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Bang on, it’s actually disappointing still having to explain why these things are wrong to people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Forensic biology, granted not virology however enough to understand the processes of the body pretty well. I do not work in a lab which I am guessing is your point, to make my thoughts on the matter irrelevant. There are not a great deal of peer reviewed papers out there regarding the protection given by natural immunity v those who have had the jags. Once there is my position may change. I'm taking part in the trial looking at the antibodies just now and again the results of that might change my mind.

People have got things wrong in the past and I would rather wait on more information before making this choice.

---

My point had nothing to do with if you worked in a lab or not. You brought having a degree in the subject into the discussion, so as to back yourself up. However, you don’t have a degree in it at all.

A degree in a science discipline isn’t a degree in all science.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Please go and Google dictionary definition of a vaccine and then come back and tell me how it is a vaccine.

Its certainly not a case of im alright Jack, I've worn a mask/sanitised throughout. Your reaction is part of what is talked about earlier making out anyone with a different thought process is a nutter.

I have a degree in the subject and have made my choice based on my knowledge, you think I'm wrong fine.

---

You are wrong. It is a vaccine, that, may I add was created by scientists in an unbelievable time frame. A remarkable achievement in itself.

Has there been complications? Are they side effects? Yes of course, but go look at the side effects leaflet of paracetamol and compare. Side effects happen with every drug or vaccine and it’s a lottery based on your body whether you get any or not.

I work in virology, in a laboratory and I’m very much aware of what a vaccine is, and this one is most definitely a vaccine, which works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcohibs

I mean literally all of it...

"Its not a vaccine for starters, you can still catch it and pass it on being a big one." It is by definition a vaccine - 'a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease.'

"I felt I would likely be OK if I did catch it, which proved to be the case". Well done you, great foresight.

"Now that I have had it, I don't see the point in getting the vaccine as I have my own immunity." I'm sure those that are most are risk are delighted that you've taken such a well informed decision to not give a **** about them.

"These added to the fact that it is still experimental chose me not to get it." Stay off of Facebook mate.

---

A vaccine is a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

It was based on a lot of factors that I thought I would be fine, such as the research done, I am young and fit with no underlying health conditions. If any of that wasn't the case I would likely have had it.

It still is considered experimental whether you or anyone else likes it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Forensic biology, granted not virology however enough to understand the processes of the body pretty well. I do not work in a lab which I am guessing is your point, to make my thoughts on the matter irrelevant. There are not a great deal of peer reviewed papers out there regarding the protection given by natural immunity v those who have had the jags. Once there is my position may change. I'm taking part in the trial looking at the antibodies just now and again the results of that might change my mind.

People have got things wrong in the past and I would rather wait on more information before making this choice.

---

And you’re entitled to wait before making that choice, but you won’t be able to do the things vaccinated people can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

A vaccine is a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

It was based on a lot of factors that I thought I would be fine, such as the research done, I am young and fit with no underlying health conditions. If any of that wasn't the case I would likely have had it.

It still is considered experimental whether you or anyone else likes it.

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It's not about you. Getting the vaccine reduces the chance of you spreading Covid to other people and ultimately, those most at risk. It's really not difficult to understand.

Give me some evidence as to how the vaccine is experimental. You've said that a couple of times with nothing to back it up. What is your source for that claim?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge

You are wrong. It is a vaccine, that, may I add was created by scientists in an unbelievable time frame. A remarkable achievement in itself.

Has there been complications? Are they side effects? Yes of course, but go look at the side effects leaflet of paracetamol and compare. Side effects happen with every drug or vaccine and it’s a lottery based on your body whether you get any or not.

I work in virology, in a laboratory and I’m very much aware of what a vaccine is, and this one is most definitely a vaccine, which works.

---

Can you please tell me the benefits of having this then having already had covid? Is there a measurable difference in protection provided? Or is it just a case of it shouldn't do any harm so get it to get a passport?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

A vaccine is a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies

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There you go, just said it yourself. That’s exactly what the covid vaccine is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Can you please tell me the benefits of having this then having already had covid? Is there a measurable difference in protection provided? Or is it just a case of it shouldn't do any harm so get it to get a passport?

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Stronger immunity, natural immunity doesn’t last very long. This has been in the media for the best part of about a year now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Can you please tell me the benefits of having this then having already had covid? Is there a measurable difference in protection provided? Or is it just a case of it shouldn't do any harm so get it to get a passport?

---

If you were to catch covid for a second time, the vaccine will help stimulate anti-bodies and reduces the risk of transmission to others, and therefore reduce any symptoms you may have. Even if you ended up with zero symptoms, surely the factor alone that it reduces the chances of possible transmission to those more vulnerable would make you think it’s worthwhile.

Sorry but I feel as if your approach is a very selfish one. Personally, if it helps save peoples lives then I’m more than happy to help by taking the vaccine.. Being fairly young myself, and not having had covid before, it’s quite simply a no brainer. As time goes on the vaccine will make improvements as it would in a normal “development” scenario which may take years but this version is a remarkable feat in itself as one which the world should not take lightly. It’s a crying shame that those who are anti vax or believe all the nonsense stuff they read online are having as much of an influence on some, as it may just end up costing someone else’s life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcohibs

It's not about you. Getting the vaccine reduces the chance of you spreading Covid to other people and ultimately, those most at risk. It's really not difficult to understand.

Give me some evidence as to how the vaccine is experimental. You've said that a couple of times with nothing to back it up. What is your source for that claim?

---

Can you explain why my own bodies response to having it would be less effective than being double jagged when the jags are basically doing the same thing as my body has done and cause the production of antibodies?

I'm genuinely intrigued to see if there is something I have completely missed.

This touches on the fact that they are still classed as experimental however is now a month old:
https://www.science.org/news/2021/07/when-will-covid-19-vaccines-be-fully-approved-and-does-it-matter-if-they-are

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pedroorange1875

CAn get into Portugal and have a holiday, but cant get into Easter Road, this is becoming a joke

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To travel to Portugal, do you use a boarding pass, passport, go through security checks etc? Yes. Because that's the criteria to fly.

This is the criteria to get into ER. Simple really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Can you please tell me the benefits of having this then having already had covid? Is there a measurable difference in protection provided? Or is it just a case of it shouldn't do any harm so get it to get a passport?

---

Just back from holiday where I met a young, very fit guy who caught Covid before he was vaccinated and now has long Covid symptoms. Whilst not being severely detrimental to his life, he would rather not have the intermittent severe headaches that he gets in certain situations, hence why I would be very careful about people being 'confident' if they caught Covid they will be fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge

If you were to catch covid for a second time, the vaccine will help stimulate anti-bodies and reduces the risk of transmission to others, and therefore reduce any symptoms you may have. Even if you ended up with zero symptoms, surely the factor alone that it reduces the chances of possible transmission to those more vulnerable would make you think it’s worthwhile.

Sorry but I feel as if your approach is a very selfish one. Personally, if it helps save peoples lives then I’m more than happy to help by taking the vaccine.. Being fairly young myself, and not having had covid before, it’s quite simply a no brainer. As time goes on the vaccine will make improvements as it would in a normal “development” scenario which may take years but this version is a remarkable feat in itself as one which the world should not take lightly. It’s a crying shame that those who are anti vax or believe all the nonsense stuff they read online are having as much of an influence on some, as it may just end up costing someone else’s life.

---

I am not antivax, I would not try and influence anyone else's decision to have it or not. I would just rather wait until a bit more research is done into this. I get that the majority think my views are stupid and I have already said that I am willing to deal with not being allowed into events etc. I will continue with the antibody trial I am doing and at the end of that or when other information comes available then I may get it.

I do think that any sort of vaccine passport is starting on a slippery slope though but again I realise I'm in the minority with that.

In the language of drug development/approval, most of the vaccines are technically experimental – all new treatments are classed as experimental until they are approved by the relevant regulatory body (such as the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine being recently approved by the US FDA).

However, that 'experimental' status covers a huge amount of ground:

At one end you have experimental treatments for rare diseases, which have only been given to a handful of patients purely because so few patients exist.

In the middle are 'normal' drugs for widespread diseases – cancer treatments etc – which have been given to thousands or tens of thousands of patients as part of clinical trials to gather evidence for approval.

At the other end are the covid vaccines. While most are technically still experimental, they've been given to millions and millions of patients and there is almost certainly more data on them than any other 'experimental' treatment in history.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

A vaccine is a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

It was based on a lot of factors that I thought I would be fine, such as the research done, I am young and fit with no underlying health conditions. If any of that wasn't the case I would likely have had it.

It still is considered experimental whether you or anyone else likes it.

---

An approved drug, or vaccine, that is approved by scientists for use on the population is most definately experimental!!

Out of curiousity, do you test regularly?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge

Sorry but I feel as if your approach is a very selfish one.

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Surely going to the Fitba whether vaccinated or not or holding a passport is essentially a selfish act. If you don't want to run the risk stay away from others

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Without wanting to sound like a dick, you have no clue what you are talking about. The jag is used to create an immune response in your body so having the jag and getting covid both give you the same protection.


How long were mmr vaccines tested prior to being rolled out?

---

The vaccine works in a different way to having had the virus. Exposure to the virus allows the body’s immune system to recognise and fight infection. One reason that COVID-19 has been so effective is that it actually uses some of the body’s defensive enzymes to penetrate the body. These enzymes are especially found in the nasal passage, the lungs and the gut.

The vaccine has been developed without using parts of covid-19 but instead caused the body to reject the spike proteins on the virus. No vaccine is 100% effective but this model has so far proved very capable of keeping people safe.
The benefit of this change to vaccine manufacture is that, at least in theory, the way for the virus to overcome this defence is to dispense with its spike proteins. That, of course, would be counter productive and a victory for modern science. Fingers crossed 🤞

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge

If you were to catch covid for a second time, the vaccine will help stimulate anti-bodies and reduces the risk of transmission to others, and therefore reduce any symptoms you may have. Even if you ended up with zero symptoms, surely the factor alone that it reduces the chances of possible transmission to those more vulnerable would make you think it’s worthwhile.

Sorry but I feel as if your approach is a very selfish one. Personally, if it helps save peoples lives then I’m more than happy to help by taking the vaccine.. Being fairly young myself, and not having had covid before, it’s quite simply a no brainer. As time goes on the vaccine will make improvements as it would in a normal “development” scenario which may take years but this version is a remarkable feat in itself as one which the world should not take lightly. It’s a crying shame that those who are anti vax or believe all the nonsense stuff they read online are having as much of an influence on some, as it may just end up costing someone else’s life.

---

With regards to your last sentence there’s no maybe about it. These people HAVE cost people their lives already and will cost a whole lot more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I wonder where all this will end?

I'm fully vaccinated, but I'm also deeply concerned about the erosion of freedoms and liberties that we're seeing. I'm massively against coercive approaches to promoting vaccination.

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Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

I am not antivax, I would not try and influence anyone else's decision to have it or not. I would just rather wait until a bit more research is done into this. I get that the majority think my views are stupid and I have already said that I am willing to deal with not being allowed into events etc. I will continue with the antibody trial I am doing and at the end of that or when other information comes available then I may get it.

I do think that any sort of vaccine passport is starting on a slippery slope though but again I realise I'm in the minority with that.

---

Your not in the minority, seem to be on this site, but literally hundreds of protests all over the world been going on over the use of ‘passports’ as it’s morally and ethically wrong and coercive in nature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Casey1875

I am not antivax, I would not try and influence anyone else's decision to have it or not. I would just rather wait until a bit more research is done into this. I get that the majority think my views are stupid and I have already said that I am willing to deal with not being allowed into events etc. I will continue with the antibody trial I am doing and at the end of that or when other information comes available then I may get it.

I do think that any sort of vaccine passport is starting on a slippery slope though but again I realise I'm in the minority with that.

---

You already have tried to influence people with what you have posted on here. Dangerous stuff when you claim to have a degree on the subject. Then when questioned about it you admit it is a forensic biology degree you have and not virology.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

An approved drug, or vaccine, that is approved by scientists for use on the population is most definately experimental!!

Out of curiousity, do you test regularly?

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Yes I do. Twice a week. You?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

With regards to your last sentence there’s no maybe about it. These people HAVE cost people their lives already and will cost a whole lot more.

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Yeah that's a fair comment Calum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

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You don’t see what purpose having to prove you’ve had a vaccine and are therefore numerous times safer to everyone else in attendance serves?l and the only reason you can see for introducing this is data collection? Really?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Can you explain why my own bodies response to having it would be less effective than being double jagged when the jags are basically doing the same thing as my body has done and cause the production of antibodies?

I'm genuinely intrigued to see if there is something I have completely missed.

This touches on the fact that they are still classed as experimental however is now a month old:
https://www.science.org/news/2021/07/when-will-covid-19-vaccines-be-fully-approved-and-does-it-matter-if-they-are

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You can get this information from studies by reputable organisations with a simple search on Google that takes about two seconds. It won't be a case of you missing anything. You've obviously not actually looked for the information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

Your not in the minority, seem to be on this site, but literally hundreds of protests all over the world been going on over the use of ‘passports’ as it’s morally and ethically wrong and coercive in nature.

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If it helps save lives, then what's the issue with passports?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neil7908

But its not about their health. It's about the health of others. This "I'm alright Jack" stuff keeps coming up. They will almost certainly be fine (although they have less chance of issues if vaccinated).

They are putting others at greater risk by not getting it.

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We are all making choices about putting others at risk. I rarely go anywhere that there are crowds or groups of people. The fitba is my one exception. SHould I be groaning every time I see the supermarket car parks mobbed or kids walking down the road together arm in arm. By going to teh fitba I am adopting an I'm alright Jack attitude and so is everyone else that attends vaccinated or not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

---

To stop people who are unvaccinated, and therefore much more likely to be a strain on the NHS if they do catch it, going to big events where there would be a higher chance of transmission.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CentreLine

The vaccine works in a different way to having had the virus. Exposure to the virus allows the body’s immune system to recognise and fight infection. One reason that COVID-19 has been so effective is that it actually uses some of the body’s defensive enzymes to penetrate the body. These enzymes are especially found in the nasal passage, the lungs and the gut.

The vaccine has been developed without using parts of covid-19 but instead caused the body to reject the spike proteins on the virus. No vaccine is 100% effective but this model has so far proved very capable of keeping people safe.
The benefit of this change to vaccine manufacture is that, at least in theory, the way for the virus to overcome this defence is to dispense with its spike proteins. That, of course, would be counter productive and a victory for modern science. Fingers crossed 🤞

---

Thank you for actually answering the question

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

---

How can you not see its purpose? It has only one purpose. Proof that a person has been fully vaccinated, therefore less likely to spread the virus. That's the whole point of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Can you explain why my own bodies response to having it would be less effective than being double jagged when the jags are basically doing the same thing as my body has done and cause the production of antibodies?

I'm genuinely intrigued to see if there is something I have completely missed.

This touches on the fact that they are still classed as experimental however is now a month old:
https://www.science.org/news/2021/07...er-if-they-are

---

We can all use Google. :wink:

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-va...al-experiment/

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2M70MW

https://theconversation.com/you-dont...nthetic-166268

https://theconversation.com/covid-19...ariants-166757

https://theconversation.com/what-hap...own-ups-164624

https://theconversation.com/pfizers-...-pharma-166709

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Yes I do. Twice a week. You?

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No, but I rarely meet other people and still wear a mask, avoid crowds, keep a distance etc. I'm not taking risks that would put me in the position of possibly catching Covid. I realise it is easy for me living in a small rural community and not in a city, but there you have it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wookie70

I know a girl who is the same. She is into yoga etc and her and lots of her friends have had Covid with hardly any ill effects. Her friends who have had vaccines have all been more ill than those who haven't. All anecdotal but it is fairly clear the fitter and stronger you are the less likely that you will suffer major consequences. Her friends all eat very well and are fit and take wellbeing very seriously. They have made an educated choice and not taken the vaccine. I respect them for than particularly as the girl I know has already had the virus and built up immunity. As a fat 50 odd year old I took the vaccine.

If this is all about safety then everyone who hasn't had two jags should not be allowed to attend regardless of age or medical status.

---

My chiropractor is exactly the same. Feels she can 'handle' getting Covid by keeping fit and healthy and believes there are more negatives than positives for her getting the jag. Has actually made me think twice about whether I'll be going back to her. There is no doubt, though, that your overall health condition is a major factor and 'MD' in Private Eye has been saying throughout that keeping fit and healthy is the best way to protect yourself against any disease and its effects, and I hope that this drives the government to invest more in encouraging the country to be healthier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

---

As has been said, companies are snooping on you all the time.

Use Google = data.

Facebook account = data

Shop online = data

Sainsburys Nectar card = data

Use your debit card = data

Pretty sure the nefarious data miners already know that you are a Hibernian Fan.

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinfaePorty

My chiropractor is exactly the same. Feels she can 'handle' getting Covid by keeping fit and healthy and believes there are more negatives than positives for her getting the jag. Has actually made me think twice about whether I'll be going back to her. There is no doubt, though, that your overall health condition is a major factor and 'MD' in Private Eye has been saying throughout that keeping fit and healthy is the best way to protect yourself against any disease and its effects, and I hope that this drives the government to invest more in encouraging the country to be healthier.

---

I think that’s shocking btw. Does the chiro have a sign up saying they aren’t bothering getting the jab?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brightside

I think that’s shocking btw. Does the chiro have a sign up saying they aren’t bothering getting the jab?

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Nope. I've actually not had an appointment for a few weeks and my wife only told me this last week, so haven't been back since I found out. I would hope she is telling all her patients to give them the option whether to continue with her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElginHibbie

To stop people who are unvaccinated, and therefore much more likely to be a strain on the NHS if they do catch it, going to big events where there would be a higher chance of transmission.

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That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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Originally Posted by MartinfaePorty

My chiropractor is exactly the same. Feels she can 'handle' getting Covid by keeping fit and healthy and believes there are more negatives than positives for her getting the jag. Has actually made me think twice about whether I'll be going back to her. There is no doubt, though, that your overall health condition is a major factor and 'MD' in Private Eye has been saying throughout that keeping fit and healthy is the best way to protect yourself against any disease and its effects, and I hope that this drives the government to invest more in encouraging the country to be healthier.

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Chiropractors are Shamen aping physiotherapists.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Doesn’t matter, it’s more than 10,000 people there so it will be needed

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And rightly so.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Brightside

Yes. Hence why they were all invited to a meeting with government advisors to try and persuade them to stop reading crap off Facebook and go and get jabbed. The clubs aren’t allowed to force it on them and the majority do not have 2 jabs!!

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Cheers, it’ll be tough convincing fans to get fully vaccinated for entry into stadiums when players aren’t.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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You've fallen prey to base-rate fallacy.

The absolute number of double-vaccinated people admitted to hospital is higher because there are far more of them (3.4m vs 1m according to the report you linked to).

You can see from the '% Admissions' columns that unvaccinated people are approximately twice as likely to be hospitalised compared to double-vaccinated people (0.015% vs 0.008%).

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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Bottom of page 41 paraphrasing as couldn't copy it 'since 10 May 2021 a larger proportion of Covid 19 related acute admissions have occurred in unvaccinated populations than populations with one of two doses'.

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

The one thing that seems lost on a lot of people here is no one, not a single person on this planet knows the long term implications of ‘training’ our DNA to make a spike protein that’s new to the human body…time will tell.

But comparing the risk factors of covid to an adverse reaction, from data from people in my age range, it’s a no-brainer for me not to get it. Especially with the data coming out of Israel re. It’s efficacy.

FWIW this whole thing makes me incredibly sad, we’re all hibbys, I’d have a pint with anyone on here as we’re all bonded by this crazy and beautiful club…

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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There are more people in hospital who are single or double dose vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. That is of course more due to age and underlying health issues but it is important because those who are choosing to not be vaccinated are being demonised and called selfish etc. Those who are vaccinated may be more likely to socialise and go out so it may be they are just as or more selfish that those that are unvaccinated. Anyone who wants to go to ER because they are vaccinated and wants to stops others doing so because they refuse to carry a bit of paper(you can still be vaccinated but want it to be kept private like your other medical history) is surely being selfish too. The numbers in hospital must show that vaccinated people are taking risks so if they are and they have a chance, albeit reduced, then they are also posing a risk for others. Those in hospital who are vaccinated have actually caught Covid so they clearly took some chances and that would have impacted on others.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

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Per person, they are a bigger strain on the NHS. If they were all double vaccinated, the total number of hospital admissions would be lower.

You say you get the % comparison but it doesn't seem like you do.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

The one thing that seems lost on a lot of people here is no one, not a single person on this planet knows the long term implications of ‘training’ our DNA to make a spike protein that’s new to the human body…time will tell.

But comparing the risk factors of covid to an adverse reaction, from data from people in my age range, it’s a no-brainer for me not to get it. Especially with the data coming out of Israel re. It’s efficacy.

FWIW this whole thing makes me incredibly sad, we’re all hibbys, I’d have a pint with anyone on here as we’re all bonded by this crazy and beautiful club…

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It’s not our body that creates a new spike protein. What the vaccine does is prevents the covid-19 virus spike proteins from connecting to our bodies.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

The one thing that seems lost on a lot of people here is no one, not a single person on this planet knows the long term implications of ‘training’ our DNA to make a spike protein that’s new to the human body…time will tell.

But comparing the risk factors of covid to an adverse reaction, from data from people in my age range, it’s a no-brainer for me not to get it. Especially with the data coming out of Israel re. It’s efficacy.

FWIW this whole thing makes me incredibly sad, we’re all hibbys, I’d have a pint with anyone on here as we’re all bonded by this crazy and beautiful club…

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This is so misreprentitive of the data as to seem dishonest, and to end your post with glib bonhomie seems like deflection.

The data shown, particularly in Israel (since you've used that example) the vaccine is overwhelmingly effective in reducing hospitalisation and severe illness.

I've copied over a response to various anti vax talking points, particularly since you're so worried about the long term effects.

What does seem to reduce over time is immunity, particularly in the face of the delta variant. This suggests that a regime similar to the flu jag for the most at risk may be the way forward.


mRNA vaccines have been being studied for over a decade (including human trials).Current COVID vaccines have been extremely well studied, with sample sizes of hundreds of thousands of people, and studies have been compiled into large meta-analyses/systematic reviews. Thus, the short-term risks of the vaccines are extremely well-documented, and the benefits outweigh the risks.

The only “unknown” is about long-term effects; however no vaccine has ever caused the type of widespread, serious side effect years down the road that everyone is afraid of.Nearly all side effects occur shortly after vaccination .The only example of a sided effect that showed up months later appear within a year (whereas we’ve been using COVID vaccines for over a year) and was rare. The vaccine benefits still outweighed the risks.

Vaccines rarely cause long-term (future) side effects because they use low doses over a short time.Vaccines simply train your immune system.Vaccines are quickly removed from the body.Most vaccine components were well-studied, and their safety is known.

mRNA does not alter your DNA.

mRNA is very quickly broken down and removed.

mRNA in vaccines cannot make your body produce entire viruses.You are constantly exposed to mRNA from viruses (e.g., from colds)If you catch COVID, your cells will use viral mRNA to make proteins just like they do from the vaccine, but…Your cells will make entire viruses, not just a single protein.You will be exposed to far higher levels of mRNA.

Side effects from immune stimulation will usually happen right away and will usually be worse from actual infection with COVID.

A demand for long-term studies is meaningless unless you can justify why a particular length of time is needed.No matter how long something has been studied, it is always technically possible that an effect won’t show up until slightly after the length of that study.This is true for all medications, foods, minerals, vitamins, etc., yet we don’t fear most of them.Therefore, you must provide actual evidence or reasoning to think that a futre side-effect is actually likely.

Focusing on a highly-unlikely, unknown, hypothetical risk from the vaccine while downplaying the very real and serious risk from COVID is bad risk assessment.Fears over unknown long-term effects of the vaccines are baseless. The burden of proof is on anyone claiming that the vaccines are dangerous.