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Originally Posted by Lendo
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6-2Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
Wall Street 😃Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Liverpool fan groups already voicing their disapproval and removing all of their banners and flags from Anfield
Good. Are you on the same side as the fan groups?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
I have to be honest and say I’ve really enjoyed the champions league in recent seasons, some amazing games and amazing players, and I accept the primacy of big corporate capital in the game as ‘just the way it is’.Quote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
But in recent seasons the likes of Monaco, Ajax Lyon and Atalanta have either gone to the semi finals or if not have played some great stuff and claimed some big scalps. Without the element of shocks I just can’t imagine I’d watch a super league replacement.
Absolutely,.Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
As so often, to understand what’s going on, you need to follow the money.
This JP Morgan league isn’t being created so that these clubs maintain their existing fanbase and income level.
They want a bigger slice of the pie. That means taking money and support away from smaller clubs - us included. It’s naive to think otherwise.
Real Madrid, Barca and Juve all have massive debts. Chelsea and Man C running at a loss. The oil barons are being hit by the low price of oil. This reeks of an attempt by these clubs to grab a bigger share of pot to help their finances. Barely watch the CL now, no way will I watch this if it comes about. This is for the non European "new" fans. May be just a bargaining chip. The owners obviously completely unaware the uproar this would cause.
Immediate explusion from their domestic leagues, and the CL, this and the following season, would possibly put some of them out of business if this league isn't due to start till 2023. They'll have to abandon the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs
Reports filtering through of a proposed breakaway Scottish Super League featuring Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hibs and Brora. 😉
Leeds have changed tonight’s fixture on their twitter it now says they are playing Merseyside Reds rather than Liverpool
They don't want to leave their domestic leagues but they know that is a potential punishment for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
That tells me they aren't too fussed about domestic football anymore. Even if they are allowed to stay, the domestic league will very quickly become like the FA Cup, or even the League Cup is currently like in England - a second or third priority.
Players will be rested for the 'big' Super League games, and the TV money will drop massively, meaning even less of a reason to pursue domestic success. I'd sure the distribution model of TV money in the EPL will change as well. In short, if this goes ahead these clubs are not going to be fussed one bit about domestic success, and certainly won't dominate. The competitive element will be ruined. Better off without them imo.
I would love to see that happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkshire HFC
The only downside I can see to this from a Hibs point of view is UEFA decided to again restructure the Champions League/ Europa and decide to do away with the Conference League.
There are still going to be some huge clubs in England - Villa, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle just for starters and there’ll be room now at the top table down there for clubs with great traditions like Forest and Sheffield Wednesday etc. As it stands now I’ve no interest in watching the Premiership chugfest and the fawning over the same six teams, it is of no relevance to me and it’s quite frankly boring but I’d be inclined to watch it if it’s freshened up and there are new clubs challenging for the league and FA Cup, as it currently is I couldn’t tell you the last time I sat and watched an English match that wasn’t an early round of the FA Cup featuring an underdog.
As for the ‘Champions’ league. Another farce. Teams who finish 4th in their leagues straight into the money and parachuted into the groups, then other countries champions having to negotiate 3 qualifying rounds, it’s an absolute joke.
There’ll still be big clubs in the Champions League, just off the top of my head England’s lot, the likes of Feyenoord and Ajax, Benfica, Marseille, Roma, Lazio, Valencia. It’ll be a far more level playing field and I’d rather watch those clubs than Chelsea v Barcelona or Juventus v Man City every season.
It’s pure greed, and done purely to suit these African and Asian supporters who’s idea of supporting a team is buying the strip every season and posting rubbish on said clubs social media posts, or the pub bore who sits in boozers in every city up and down Britain ‘supporting’ Chelsea or Liverpool and patronising other punters for following the local team. As much as I genuinely feel for the Man U or Arsenal season ticket holder from Salford or north London who follow their team all over the country every week, their clubs are now soulless franchises and I hope and pray the ESL ends in a complete and utter disaster.
Andy Walker wants Celtic and rangers to join 😂
😂 Following SJM'S suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
https://twitter.com/jmcginn7/status/...076695048?s=19
FWIW I think this would be great for European football. Ridiculous money has been pumped into the big leagues and peanuts (in comparison) into the rest. Take away the big attractions from England, Spain and Italy and away goes a giant share of the cash. Currently every Hibs fan accepts we have no hope of competing with bottom of the table English Championship teams for players - that's not right. Sadly it might kill some of the big names in these leagues, going from the TV revenues of today to whatever Sky will off now will leave them bankrupt!
This is a bit like the old Rugby League v Rugby Union debate.....players will go there for the money and will be missed....at little....but the game will go on. The Super League will evolve outside of a governing body and in years to come may even look like a different sport, its masters in Asia and the US, not at its ancestral home. In a while we wont care, the likes of Man Utd will be playing a different game for a different market.
Its the natural destination given how clubs have evolved from 'sports clubs' to businesses. I fear for the teams in the leagues they leave behind....its a new opportunity for the other leagues though.
I don't think their directors are members of the right golf clubsQuote:
Originally Posted by Hiberniankb
I’m just picturing all the directors of the ESL clubs sitting around a big boardroom table brainstorming ideas when one of them pipes up withQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr What If?
“You know what this new league is desperately lacking?! Seventeen century religious bigotry! Give Rangers and Celtic a call.”
A big reason this has been announced now is there are no fans in grounds. 90%+ fans are violently opposed, and certain fan groups would be literally dragging the top brass out of their posh seats.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
I'm with this fan of one of the oldest clubs in the game.
A plague upon this exploitative cabal and the self annointed big 6.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d7f87af0d4.jpg
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How long will it take before one of the clubs change their name based on whoever owns them? I’m thinking about some of these Middle Eastern owners rebranding the clubs and possibly relocating them. Clubs like Man City could just disappear, it happens in America. It won’t happen immediately, but a few years down the line this could be a more global league, 6 clubs from England would leave a few of them open for relocation.
My feelings towards this are the same as when I gave up playing FIFA and Football Manager and went back to playing Sensible Soccer and Championship Manager 01/02.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
:top marks
SJM maybe not getting the big move now with comments like that. He may have to settle for a top team like West Ham after all. What's 30% of £10m?Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
"The game was definitely still about the fans when Utd were paying me £60k a week"
-G. Neville, Manchester
Completely disagree with this viewpoint to be honest. What are the players meant to do? Say just pay me 500 a week, that’ll get me by? Its the owners causing all of this. Players accepting the money offered to them is always going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by mixumatosis
Do you really need to ask that? :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Newry Hibs
I don't blame any player for taking what's on offer and I'm pleased Gary Neville has come out and said what he's said. But the notion that this is the point where football became divorced from what it used to be is nonsense. We passed that point long ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibsGW
Yep. Don’t understand why a few are so keen to make this about Neville being a hypocrite. Every ex player and pundit working for sky sports are *****ing loaded through football, we know that. It would be disappointing if they were not using the platform they have through this employment to say the right things.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibsGW
Neville is very much saying the right things in my opinion. Regardless of whether he made a lot of money playing at the top level.
We couldnt be that lucky. A spfl without them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiberniankb
Could we? Please let it happen.
A lot of good points mate. Agree with vast majority but I fear the implications for Hibs in long term may be more than what you’ve stated above, if this shambles were to go ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sean.
Exactly, Gary Neville was bang on in what he said and there was nothing hypocritical about it. This type of logic just suggests that all footballers shouldn’t say anything about it, which is exactly how we let the game be ruined.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
Just let them go for it. The various reports seem to suggest City and Chelsea aren’t fully onboard, the German clubs have said no, the French are currently saying no, so call their bluff. The 10 or 12 can join their super league, borrow their billions from JP Morgan and see how it goes. Would be hilarious if after a few years of revenue below expectations, the bank calls the debt in and those clubs end up broken, ruined and limping back to their home countries.
Meantime, the rest of us carry on as normal. Champions Leagues being fought over by Ajax, Dortmund and co. Genuine title fights in England, Spain and Italy. Sounds fine to me.
That sounds amazing. Do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
Don't worry folks, Doncaster is going to use his executive powers to cancel the European Super League. Get the champagne on ice.
Sorry if you've already posted them and I've not seen, Scouse, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on all this as a diehard scouser?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
It's fairly easy for us to say "if it was Hibs" or indeed for me to listen to one of the Liverpool 'fans' I know in my social circles. But what are your feelings on it right now? Do you already feel completely let down by the club? Do you think you would walk away if it were all to go ahead as 'proposed'?
UEFA president confirms that players of the teams involved in the closed league will be unable to participate in the World Cup and Euro’s, I assume that includes this summer’s competition.
Doig at left back for Scotland then😀Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie
Do we know if this is all as a result of one of Anne Budge's Task forces ?
Neville is a majoirty shareholder in Salford who literally bought their way to skip through several tiers of the English football pyramid.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
seems like this is an opportunity for a few big name footballers to become heroes. If Messi and Ronaldo in particular had any integrity, they would come out and say that they think this is an appalling idea and that they will not play for any club that is part of it. They are near the end of their careers anyway, their contracts with Bercelona and Juventus will be over by the time this new league is due to start and they have made more money than they can possibly spend and influence millions of people. If they held a joint press conference it would be huge.
There is no comparison there at all :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SigvDl14tAU
An unnamed board member's insights into these proposals. The level of contempt for the current setup is utterly nauseating.
The FA should hammer these clubs harshly and immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
All true, but he’s not challenging the validity of the pyramid itself.
That is a very important distinction, and also the reason why the OF attempt to get parachuted into the EPL was (rightly) met with widespread contempt.
Promotion / relegation is critical to the culture of European football imo. Do away with it and the game really is gone.
Wonder if Robertson and Tierney will submit transfer requests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie
That was a fake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
Has rangers, celtic and hearts invite gone out yet? Surely they are bigger than porto etc?
The proposal has nothing to do with promotion or relegation though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Hope they get kicked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Eh? Of course it does... you need to check your facts before commenting. The new league is by invitation, not sporting merit.
And do you work for JP Morgan or something? You seem to be a staunch defender of this hideous new plan, for reasons that aren’t entirely clear to me.
Any club in England can do that though, that is why their pyramid system is second to none. If you have the money, the know how or an endless supply of great footballers you can take a team from county leagues right the way to the premier league. Forest Green Rovers did this, they came from local then country leagues through regional leagues, into the conference leagues and then eventually in league football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
Has absolutely nothing to do with this. He is spot on with what he says and his wages 15 years ago, when he was a top player, have nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mixumatosis
Are viewing figures going up for the current set up, as i certainly dont watch half as much of the Champions league, and i'd be the same with this new system?
How will it be funded?
Down about 30% recently since move away from Sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Which anyone can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus52
You want salary caps?
I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenio
Funnily enough, I think this is where this new league is heading. The US owners can’t understand why so much of the money generated goes to the players.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
It’s not entirely an unfair criticism.
However, I’m not minded to pick a fight with Gary Neville when there is a much bigger war being waged.
This goes all the way down by the way, and Scottish football should resist hyper-capitalist involvement in our game at all costs, market ourselves as the alternative along with other leagues who will tell these clubs where to **** off to.
Still makes me cringe thinking of Dempster's email a few seasons back that started with the phrase 'how ambitious is your club?'. I don't want the guardians of 'my club' to ever use those sort of vacuous, corporate buzzwords, I just want Hibs to run out in green and white and play at Easter Road against other Scottish teams with varying levels of success each season until I am dead in the mud, simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
But that would make no sense. The only draw for the players in this new set up, as I can see it, is the opportunity to make even more ridiculous amounts of money than they do already.
American investment bank putting up 4.6 billionQuote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
TV deals with amazon and others in the works
China and America alone, 2 countries who couldn't care less about what this does to domestic football, will provide enough viewing to cover it. Games will be early morning in this country so they can get biggest foreign audience.
Of course it is. He earned good money because he was worth good money to a team earning big money. They had the same chance to earn that money as everyone else. This league gives only 12 sides the chance to earn that money.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
They would still be the best paid league in the world, especially after undermining the epl.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
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Not for the first time the club have let the fans down, this goes completely against what Liverpool football club is supposed to be about. Would I ever be able to walk away, probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeRussell
EPL meeting tomorrow with only the 14 clubs left behind. IMO they need to go nuclear on this.
Ceferin has said uefa are going to ban them once they have their legal ducks in a row.
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I agree with everything he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
It's just that when he does it from his platform on Sky, which started this whole mess, that it is hard to take him seriously.
How do you think this is going to end!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
There will be hee-haw for most clubs in the super league to play for either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
There might be two or three clubs fighting it out to win the league. The rest of the games will be ‘glamour’ friendlies where they don’t want to risk injuring players who will be needed in their league games. They will have literally nothing to play for.
Personally I don’t see anything coming from this. The top clubs have completely underestimated the strength of feeling against it.
Horribly - 5 million subscribers in the UK versus 500 million in Asia/Americas. Follow the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
A really honest response that and the crux of the matter may be that if Liverpool supporters ( and the other teams) can only watch their team in this new league ( assuming other competitions are closed to them), people are still likely to go to the game. The medium and long term scenario is probably a power struggle between 2 rival set ups. Sustainable in the long term? Who knowsQuote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-statement-47628
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I find myself agreeing with both Boris Johnson and Neil Doncaster in the same day - something is clearly badly wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
A nice idea by Grimsby Town (from The Guardian):
“Grimsby have responded to the proposed launch of the super league by offering fans of the English clubs involved the chance to trade in their shirt for a Mariners one. The ‘shirt amnesty’ is open to holders of any Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham or Chelsea shirts that are less than three seasons old. In return the club are offering a replica 2020-21 Grimsby shirt, with the unwanted Premier League kits to be donated to local youth groups and humanitarian projects in Africa.
“In light of recent events surrounding the introduction of the European Super League, Grimsby Town Football Club will be running a shirt amnesty for those who hold shirts for the English clubs involved,” a statement on the club website read. “Without fans, football and Grimsby Town Football Club are nothing. “We would like to thank you for the fantastic support you have provided us this season and we cannot wait to welcome you back to Blundell Park as soon as possible.”
Quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Horribly. Whatever happens now, nobody can afford to back down. This is a fight to the death. If the 12 clubs back down, they will be powerless within uefa and if uefa backs down then it’s finished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
I have believed for a while now that this is inevitable but always felt it would happen season by season as uefa gradually gave the clubs what they wanted. And that appeared to be the way it was going. Obviously not fast enough for some and they have went the nuclear option. I personally think this is a mistake but I’ve no clue how it turns out.
I have no faith that fans of these clubs really will turn their back on them. But the people running these clubs will need balls of steel to follow through with it now in the face of expulsion from their domestic leagues and uefa tournaments.
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The Rangers and Celtic will be licking their lips at all this European League stuff. It's exactly the kind of disruptive event that can get them out of Scotland and into the land of milk and honey. If a power struggle ensues between UEFA and the 12, all it would take is for the 12 to start "inviting" the likes of Celtic and The Rangers to join them - perhaps to set up a 2nd division, with protect of promotion to play the 12 at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by JXM73
Can you ever imagine Celtic or The Rangers turning down such an invite ? No chance.
I think this is going to result in massive disruption all over the place and in places we don’t expect. I don’t buy into the talk that none of this effect Hibs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
Hopefully we are smart enough to be pro active when the time comes rather than just letting change happen to us.
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And I'm assuming that Hearts must already be one of the 12 super-clubs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
The issue for the 12 is - while they may be the richest clubs in Europe - they are not necessarily the best on the field or able to guarantee themselves CL places/success which is where the competition money is. And financial fair play rules restrict their ability to generate cash. That all disappears with the proposed new set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I was thinking similar. Celtic and Rangers fans are the exact type of fan who would back this too - they support greedy bullys. Plus you just know that the SFA/SPFL would roll over and let them continue to field a reserve team in our top division. Whilst the initial proposal seems a ridiculous non-starter if UEFA/domestic FA’s leave any room for manoeuvre then the consequences will be dire. They need to be told firmly to **** off snd all 12 should be hammered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
Nope. Only if Brora Rangers decline their invitation first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Hibee
Grimsby are giving you a free shirt if you donate any of the 6 English teams shirts to charity.
Not if UEFA/FIFA have anything to do with it. The SFA?SPFL will be told exactly what to do with any applications from Celtic/Sevco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy
I like the idea of the UK/Spanish/Italian governments introducing a hefty Super Tax on these European League clubs, with the proceeds used to bolster National competition/leagues and grass roots football. The game is far too important for it to be hijacked by a handful of greedy owners who have little to no interest in the game itself.
Imagine if this pushed people to support their local teams instead. Could be a revolution for grass roots.
I wouldn't be too bothered if they left but only if they left Scottish football completely. I don't want them also entering our leagues or cups, even if they were fielding weakened teams. It wouldn't be long before they'd use the Super League millions they'd be gifted to hoover up all the decent players from the others Scottish teams and have supersized squads to be able to play in all the competitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
Hibs can’t afford them to leave without us having to head to another league as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
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Is Barcelona not fan-owned? How on earth do they plan on selling this to the voting fans that have a stake in the club?
Yeah I am lost as to how that qualified as a response to my post as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
Money talks. The 12 will become 18 or 20. They will go it alone. The players will be paid even more and sacrifice their international careers for the Wonga. They will sacrifice domestic football for this. Clubs fans will fall into line and back them as it’s deemed to be the pinnacle of world football at club level and as fans we back our clubs al the time. It’s what we do. UEFA and FIFA will eventually capitulate even if it’s years down the line. Domestic football will welcome them back even if it is their B teams. Money is the factor always has and always will be whatever the level. Even if it means making a new level. Might even be the birth of European league football beneath it. It was only a matter of time. The remaining clubs will eventually demand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
Seems like the Spanish old firm have got the Spanish media on side, unlike England and Italy where reaction seems to be mostly hostile.
As said above, Barca are massively in debt and maybe some fans will be persuaded that this is a necessary move.
Let’s hope not - they have the power to stop it.
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
I don’t think I have ever seen one of these battles where the big clubs and money men don’t win in the end?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
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Aye it’s called greed and it always wins. That and the grass is always greener coupled by fomo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
mercer vs Hands off Hibs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
after all big clubs don’t come much bigger than hearts
I think you’re more or less spot on with this. Rangers and Celtic would never turn down a place in a 2nd tier ESL. I wonder if this is a contingency and there is more money available. I also think the full plans will include a global set up including North and South America, China, India and Asia. So getting booted from domestic leagues won’t bother them much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
remember the days when barca wouldn’t even sully their shirt with a sponsor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
what the hell happened that club
Just to be clear - because they generate vast amounts of money, doesn't make them the richest clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
Every one of them has huge amounts of debt, not least Barcelona on €1bn.
This is simply about money, paying off debts, and getting another sucker (JP Morgan) to underwrite it.
I agree with most of that, but I disagree with this assumption that foreign based fans will line up obediently behind the new super league concept either. Lots of Asian based or European based fans are super loyal to Liverpool or Man U and get a lot of identity from being a ‘real’ fan in the sense of trying to be as much like a Scouser or a Manc as possible, exactly the opposite as you describe. It might seem weird to us but a Korean Man U fan can be just as passionate as a local fan. Nobody likes a plastic or wants to be a plastic either.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sean.
I had misread a tweet and thought that they had literally paid to skip past the NPL divisions and go into conference North.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah