The EU Referendum (How did you vote?)

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Yes it’s just another example of how we lose by being part of an unequal union.

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The amount of Irish people working in Brussels representing Ireland dwarfs the number of Scots there. Not just the MEP’s but civil servants etc working on committees, lobbying and generally making sure Irish interests are looked after.


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It’s simple for me. The people who live in Scotland should decide everything for the people of Scotland.

Whether that is deciding to cede some policy to the EU or not. It’s the choice for the people of Scotland to make. No one else.

J

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The amount of Irish people working in Brussels representing Ireland dwarfs the number of Scots there. Not just the MEP’s but civil servants etc working on committees, lobbying and generally making sure Irish interests are looked after.


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Add that to the fact that they have the whole of the EU behind them during the brexit negotiations, while we have a government who would gladly throw us to the wolves if it kept extreme factions in their party quiet.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

How convenient, starts to bubble as the last words of her prepared speech are uttered. Call me a sceptic but it was all staged.

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Why would they stage that?

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Why would they stage that?

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Are you seriously saying robots can cry???

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

So you are happy with Malta having the same number of MEPs as Scotland with a 10th of the population?

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Yes. There is a minimum representation per country of 6, so they shouldn't have any less. Representation then increases proportionally and the UK gets ~70, Scotland gets it's equal share of that.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Yes, but they also get direct representation on the Council which is considerably more powerful. They even get a veto on particularly important things.

The configuration of the UK isn't particularly unfair when you consider what it actually is: a unitary state with a certain amount of asymmetric regional devolution. It's the disingenuous bull**** from Unionism to try and pretend it's something else that really grates.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

It’s not me that’s saying Scotland should have 10x as much say as we deserve. We are constantly told by unionist politicians that Scotland is an equal member of the UK. We’re not equal we’re as you say proportionally equal, which is utterly meaningless when important decisions need to be taken. We don’t have a veto on anything and we rarely get the government we vote for.

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Okay, so the grievance is with interpretations of the term equal. I don't think any unionists argument of us being in an equal union stretches to "Scotlands" voice being equal to "Englands" but rather that the voice of a Scottish person is equal to the voice of an English person.

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

Are you seriously saying robots can cry???

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:tee hee:

In breaking news Nicola Sturgeon feels the resignation of Theresa May means we need Independence. Who would have thought.

She also managed to demand a General Election, another EU referendum and a further Independence referendum in her short statement today and all of them before 2021.

Just what the country needs.

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Originally Posted by James310

In breaking news Nicola Sturgeon feels the resignation of Theresa May means we need Independence. Who would have thought.

She also managed to demand a General Election, another EU referendum and a further Independence referendum in her short statement today and all of them before 2021.

Just what the country needs.

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Aye Scotland, wtf do you expect the First Minister of Scotland to say?

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Originally Posted by James310

In breaking news Nicola Sturgeon feels the resignation of Theresa May means we need Independence. Who would have thought.

She also managed to demand a General Election, another EU referendum and a further Independence referendum in her short statement today and all of them before 2021.

Just what the country needs.

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Well, either that or another tory clusterboorach. I know what will be better for Scotland and it has nothing to do with whoever is going to be the next, unelected by the people of the UK, prime minister.


In other news, I see that the poll of Hibees has an 88% remains majority, otherwise known as the will of the people.

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Originally Posted by James310

In breaking news Nicola Sturgeon feels the resignation of Theresa May means we need Independence. Who would have thought.

She also managed to demand a General Election, another EU referendum and a further Independence referendum in her short statement today and all of them before 2021.

Just what the country needs.

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Do you think the country needs BoJo or Gove?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Do you think the country needs BoJo or Gove?

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The country needs BoJo

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Originally Posted by makaveli1875

The country needs BoJo

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****ing hell.

No BoJo for me, to much of a liability and bound to make some gaffe or another. Although many predicted Trump would not last as long as he has.

If Gove can put in performances like he did a few months back against Corbyn at PMs questions he stands a good chance, ripped him a new one.

https://youtu.be/U1_OzDbOakM



But let's wait and see what the others bring.

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Originally Posted by Slavers

Sweeping generalisations and assumptions leaves no room for discussion and are made by you to confirm your own bias.

The topic was debated to death prior to the referendum and to say that everyone who voted to leave is only down to ignorance is just deluded arrogance on your part.

Anyway I have gave my reason why I voted for the Brexit Party so to try ensure the democratic result is honoured.

If anything just so that future referendum results are honoured the same way, even if I don't like the result such a vote for Scottish Independence, that's how democracy should work.

Oh how strange it will be if and when Scotland votes for independence and the very same forces spring into action and conspire to reverse the result without it ever being implemented.

I do wonder how you would react to that?

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But your “reasons for voting Brexit party” are demonstrably bollocks. They don’t have a manifesto to hold them to account so you have literally no idea what they are going to do nor have they given themselves any recourse for if you are let down by them.

No sweeping generalisations, unless you voted for us to have worse trading conditions than Mauritania? And of course if you did you’ll need to point out who said it would be like that before the referendum took place.

Please, go ahead. Prove me wrong.

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Originally Posted by James310

No BoJo for me, to much of a liability and bound to make some gaffe or another. Although many predicted Trump would not last as long as he has.

If Gove can put in performances like he did a few months back against Corbyn at PMQs questions he stands a good chance, ripped him a new one.

https://youtu.be/U1_OzDbOakM


But let's wait and see what the other bring.

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Ripping Corbyn a new one at PMQs doesn't qualify anyone for the job of prime minister. Hell, I would be in with a chance.

Proportional representation would be fair, if Scotland was merely a region of a country. Scotland isn't a region of a country, it IS a country.

We have our own culture, our own values, our own flag and our own parliament.

We have everything every other country has with the exception of full democratic control over our own affairs. Something we will never have within the UK.

Not that the argument really matters however. We're just a mere region in the eyes of British Unionists.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Ripping Corbyn a new one at PMQs doesn't qualify anyone for the job of prime minister. Hell, I would be in with a chance.

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No, you would be more like this.

https://youtu.be/Wny6XhsV2hE

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Originally Posted by James310

No BoJo for me, to much of a liability and bound to make some gaffe or another. Although many predicted Trump would not last as long as he has.

If Gove can put in performances like he did a few months back against Corbyn at PMs questions he stands a good chance, ripped him a new one.

https://youtu.be/U1_OzDbOakM



But let's wait and see what the other bring.

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Gove, a man who took elocution lessons to rid himself of his Aberdeen accent. PM questions is pantomime , it really doesn’t matter. He’s just another odious Tory.

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Originally Posted by James310

No BoJo for me, to much of a liability and bound to make some gaffe or another. Although many predicted Trump would not last as long as he has.

If Gove can put in performances like he did a few months back against Corbyn at PMs questions he stands a good chance, ripped him a new one.

https://youtu.be/U1_OzDbOakM



But let's wait and see what the others bring.

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Boris seems able to get away with gaffe after gaffe though, which might be useful if he were to become PM.

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Originally Posted by James310

No, you would be more like this.

https://youtu.be/Wny6XhsV2hE

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Do I detect some personal abuse?

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Originally Posted by makaveli1875

The country needs BoJo

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BoJo may be shortly defending a court case about his lying in public office. If he loses and is sentenced to the maximum life imprisonment, will that affect his ability to be PM in any way? :dunno:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

BoJo may be shortly defending a court case about his lying in public office. If he loses and is sentenced to the maximum life imprisonment, will that affect his ability to be PM in any way? :dunno:

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He could join the catalonian politicians.

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Originally Posted by James310

No, you would be more like this.

https://youtu.be/Wny6XhsV2hE

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I take it you're the toff in the crowd asking the question, surrounded by your english tory mates?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Proportional representation would be fair, if Scotland was merely a region of a country. Scotland isn't a region of a country, it IS a country.

We have our own culture, our own values, our own flag and our own parliament.

We have everything every other country has with the exception of full democratic control over our own affairs. Something we will never have within the UK.

Not that the argument really matters however. We're just a mere region in the eyes of British Unionists.

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I don’t know where you get this “We” from. You don’t have a right to use “We” in reference to the people who live in Scotland.

In case it missed your attention a sizeable majority voted in the independence referendum to keep things as they were, “Thanks, but no thanks”.

You speak for a minority, or rather, a disaffected rump.

I suggest that in the interests of factual accuracy, you and any other resentful separatists, stop this inane use of the word “We” and maybe refer to yourselves as the “disaffected rump”.

You lost the referendum because more of “We” rejected you than embraced you.

Deal with it please, respect the sovereign will of the Scottish people :wink:

“We” voted against the politics of resentment, grudgery and twirly flags. “We” voted for sticking with something that felt relatively safer. And to this day, we don’t hear arguments that change a thing. It’s either resentment against Westminster and England or it is some twaddle about self-determination that didn’t pass the test last time round and doesn’t convince now.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Do I detect some personal abuse?

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Are you Joanna Cherry, if so I apologise. I know a trans debate is raging at the moment so better watch what I say.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

I don’t know where you get this “We” from. You don’t have a right to use “We” in reference to the people who live in Scotland.

In case it missed your attention a sizeable majority voted in the independence referendum to keep things as they were, “Thanks, but no thanks”.

You speak for a minority, or rather, a disaffected rump.

I suggest that in the interests of factual accuracy, you and any other resentful separatists, stop this inane use of the word “We” and maybe refer to yourselves as the “disaffected rump”.

You lost the referendum because more of “We” rejected you than embraced you.

Deal with it please, respect the sovereign will of the Scottish people :wink:

“We” voted against the politics of resentment, grudgery and twirly flags. “We” voted for sticking with something that felt relatively safer. And to this day, we don’t hear arguments that change a thing. It’s either resentment against Westminster and England or it is some twaddle about self-determination that didn’t pass the test last time round and doesn’t convince now.

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So there is no "we" in our "equal family of nations" then?

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :aok:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

So there is no "we" in our "equal family of nations" then?

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :aok:

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You will have to explain that one to me.

My point is you have no right to use the word “We” to describe the people who live in Scotland through the prism of your very specific perspective.

So, less posts talking about “We” because your views don’t reflect the majority of the population :aok:

And as I say, feel free to describe your views as part of a disaffected rump :wink:

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Originally Posted by James310

Are you Joanna Cherry, if so I apologise. I know a trans debate is raging at the moment so better watch what I say.

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I am not Joanne cherry, however your post suggests that I would struggle under the incessant attack by a right wing audience plant, which I absolutely refute. Should I report you? No because I am adult enough to put your personal attack behind me and treat you like a nasty smell.

I will never understand folk looking at the UK now and thinking, yes this is as good as it getshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...685b7eda70.jpg

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

I take it you're the toff in the crowd asking the question, surrounded by your english tory mates?

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No, I never passed the Question Time vetting process. Clearly its really strict. Must wear my red jacket next time.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

You will have to explain that one to me.

My point is you have no right to use the word “We” to describe the people who live in Scotland through the prism of your very specific perspective.

So, less posts talking about “We” because your views don’t reflect the majority of the population :aok:

And as I say, feel free to describe your views as part of a disaffected rump :wink:

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You claim...

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

“We” voted against the politics of resentment, grudgery and twirly flags.

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Perhaps you should take a double take of the political landscape across the UK. Because this is exactly the type of politics Scotland is being subjected to, WITHIN the UK.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Proportional representation would be fair, if Scotland was merely a region of a country. Scotland isn't a region of a country, it IS a country.

We have our own culture, our own values, our own flag and our own parliament.

We have everything every other country has with the exception of full democratic control over our own affairs. Something we will never have within the UK.

Not that the argument really matters however. We're just a mere region in the eyes of British Unionists.

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Question for you Fifey.. In the hypothetical independent Scotland would our hypothetical banks be owned by the rothschilds or will we become the 1st nation to operate outwith the Rothschild banking network?

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Originally Posted by makaveli1875

Question for you Fifey.. In the hypothetical independent Scotland would our hypothetical banks be owned by the rothschilds or will we become the 1st nation to operate outwith the Rothschild banking network?

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Why would an independent Scotland be "hypothetical"? Why would the banks in an independent Scotland be "hypthetical"? What a bizarre post.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

You claim...



Perhaps you should take a double take of the political landscape across the UK. Because this is exactly the type of politics Scotland is being subjected to, WITHIN the UK.

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This is exactly the same as your use of “We” FFS :greengrin

A significant proportion of Scots, and indeed SNP voters, opted for Brexit. Many millions of English voters opted for Remain.

But you you are right, resentment, grudgery and twirly flags are not the sole preserve of angry Scottish separatists, they are also fair game for angry UK citizens who want to blame big, bad somebody (in this case the EU) while entirely missing the point about the stuff that really matters, like is our health system functioning, can we school our children well and care for our elderly and can we maintain a decent, safe public infrastructure?

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Why would an independent Scotland be "hypothetical"? Why would the banks in an independent Scotland be "hypthetical"? What a bizarre post.

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In an independent Scotland would the banks be owned by the Rothschilds?

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

while entirely missing the point about the stuff that really matters, like is our health system functioning, can we school our children well and care for our elderly and can we maintain a decent, safe public infrastructure.

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Looks like whatever we (UK) are doing isn't working

Maybe time to try something else?


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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I am not Joanne cherry, however your post suggests that I would struggle under the incessant attack by a right wing audience plant, which I absolutely refute. Should I report you? No because I am adult enough to put your personal attack behind me and treat you like a nasty smell.

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No, it was more along the lines of like Joanna Cherry when asked about currency she had no clue, like you. That's not personal abuse, it was attacking a position you took.

Maybe your like Alyn Smith who is agnostic on what currency Scotland would have, which is another way of saying I literally have no clue so I am going to say something which means I don't have to answer any difficult questions.

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

Looks like whatever we (UK) are doing isn't working

Maybe time to try something else?


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I talked about health, education and public infrastructure.

They are within the remit of the Scottish Government.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

In an independent Scotland would the banks be owned by the Rothschilds?

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He's a master of deflection

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

I talked about health, education and public infrastructure.

They are within the remit of the Scottish Government.

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Owning a Lamborghini is within my remit.

If only I had the money.

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Originally Posted by makaveli1875

He's a master of deflection

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I'm not the one shifting the subject to have a cheap swipe, you are.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Gove, a man who took elocution lessons to rid himself of his Aberdeen accent. PM questions is pantomime , it really doesn’t matter. He’s just another odious Tory.

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Getting rid of the accent, sadly, has probably given him more of a chance of becoming PM. A lot of folk probably don’t realise he’s Scottish. I don’t think we will see a Scottish PM any time soon with the exception of potentially Gove. The English wouldn’t put up for it. It also helps that he represents an English constituency, although I don’t think Liam Fox would stand a chance if he were in a similar situation to Gove (aside from the fact he’s a twat) because he has kept his Scottish accent.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

Yes. There is a minimum representation per country of 6, so they shouldn't have any less. Representation then increases proportionally and the UK gets ~70, Scotland gets it's equal share of that.






Okay, so the grievance is with interpretations of the term equal. I don't think any unionists argument of us being in an equal union stretches to "Scotlands" voice being equal to "Englands" but rather that the voice of a Scottish person is equal to the voice of an English person.

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Scotland gets 6 MEP’s while independent Ireland with a smaller population gets 11. That doesn’t seem like we are getting our fair share of representation. It’s no wonder Ireland now has a bigger economy than Scotland’s. They can take decisions that are best to suit them where we have to accept decision that may be right for England but don’t particularly suit our economy.


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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

Yes. There is a minimum representation per country of 6, so they shouldn't have any less. Representation then increases proportionally and the UK gets ~70, Scotland gets it's equal share of that.






Okay, so the grievance is with interpretations of the term equal. I don't think any unionists argument of us being in an equal union stretches to "Scotlands" voice being equal to "Englands" but rather that the voice of a Scottish person is equal to the voice of an English person.

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There is no interpretation of the term equal. It’s a completely unambiguous term. In Scotland we’re part of a union of 4 countries where one of the four countries has absolute control in voting and elected officials and the rest of us either think that’s great or disagree and think we could do better on our own.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Scotland gets 6 MEP’s while independent Ireland with a smaller population gets 11. That doesn’t seem like we are getting our fair share of representation. It’s no wonder Ireland now has a bigger economy than Scotland’s. They can take decisions that are best to suit them where we have to accept decision that may be right for England but don’t particularly suit our economy.


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How many MEPs does Connacht get? Or East Flanders? Or Andalusia?

They are part of a sovereign state which gets far more votes than they do as a distinct but nevertheless a part, of that sovereign state.

Comparing Scotland to Ireland is facile.

And the use of ‘we’ and ‘they’ doesn’t stand up to scrutiny in the slightest, not least because it doesn’t reflect the fact that more Scots voted for ‘we’ to be linked in with England than voted against, by a clear majority, so maybe just stop it with the ‘we’?.

And finally, the notion that Scotland suffers because decisions are taken that are ‘right for England’ doesn’t hold any water at all. There is no such thing as an approach that is right for ‘England’. What is important and relevant in the South-West bears little comparison to what is important and relevant in Lancashire or East Anglia, let alone London.

Reads like resentment politics, “us and them”, nationalist trope but one that doesn’t carry much weight.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

There is no interpretation of the term equal. It’s a completely unambiguous term. In Scotland we’re part of a union of 4 countries where one of the four countries has absolute control in voting and elected officials and the rest of us either think that’s great or disagree and think we could do better on our own.

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And when put to the vote a clear majority said they weren’t convinced by the argument for separation.

This notion that one country has absolute control - I have to dispute. What does it actually mean? Is there an ‘English’ approach to decision making? Given the clear splits in England politically I don’t think you can back that up. Also, as I seem to have said countless times, practically every policy that impacts on our day-to-day life is within the powers of the Scottish Government and almost all have been for many years now. And for the entirety of Labour in power 1997-2010, Scottish MPs were massively over-represented and powerful in the UK government.

As long as nationalists bang on about being hard done to, all they will do is further embitter their committed and further alienate the potential swingers. And nobody really wins from that scenario.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

And when put to the vote a clear majority said they weren’t convinced by the argument for separation.

This notion that that one country has absolute control - I have to dispute. What does it actually mean? Is there an ‘English’ approach to decision making? Given the clear splits in England politically I don’t think you can back that up. Also, as I seem to have said countless times, practically every policy that impacts on our day-to-day life is within the powers of the Scottish Government and almost all have been for many years now.

As long as nationalists bang on about being hard done to, all they will do is further embitter their committed and further alienate the potential swingers. And nobody really wins from that scenario.

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You appear to live in this fantasy bubble where UK politics isn't influenced by any sort of nationalistic agenda. The game of politics is to win enough people over to keep you in power. Not to please everybody, which is impossible to do.

The UK Government doesn't need to please anybody in Scotland. They could piss us all off as long as it wins them enough support in England to keep them in power.

You'll never admit it to yourself. But "socking it to the jocks" is a vote winner in England. If any politican thinks they can gain a political advantage by doing so, then they will not hesitate for a second.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

Proportionally equal is being equal though, that's how things work. Unless you think Scotland should have a proportionally 10x stronger say in things in order to be considered equal. Different countries in the EU get a different number of MEPs :confused:

I think "Scots decide one thing and UK just ignore it" isn't necessarily how it works either. It could just as easily work the other way, it's just 10x less likely. It's not an active decision to ignore Scottish votes, there's just not as many of them.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

And when put to the vote a clear majority said they weren’t convinced by the argument for separation.

This notion that one country has absolute control - I have to dispute. What does it actually mean? Is there an ‘English’ approach to decision making? Given the clear splits in England politically I don’t think you can back that up. Also, as I seem to have said countless times, practically every policy that impacts on our day-to-day life is within the powers of the Scottish Government and almost all have been for many years now. And for the entirety of Labour in power 1997-2010, Scottish MPs were massively over-represented and powerful in the UK government.

As long as nationalists bang on about being hard done to, all they will do is further embitter their committed and further alienate the potential swingers. And nobody really wins from that scenario.

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There doesn’t have to be an English approach as there’s without any doubt an English majority. Your point about Scottish MPs being massively over-represented in the labour government may well be true, but they served the UK, not Scotland. I realise that for some that is one and the same, but not for me.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

And when put to the vote a clear majority said they weren’t convinced by the argument for separation.

This notion that one country has absolute control - I have to dispute. What does it actually mean? Is there an ‘English’ approach to decision making? Given the clear splits in England politically I don’t think you can back that up. Also, as I seem to have said countless times, practically every policy that impacts on our day-to-day life is within the powers of the Scottish Government and almost all have been for many years now. And for the entirety of Labour in power 1997-2010, Scottish MPs were massively over-represented and powerful in the UK government.

As long as nationalists bang on about being hard done to, all they will do is further embitter their committed and further alienate the potential swingers. And nobody really wins from that scenario.

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The Scottish govt would like the power to set up drug treatment facilities in order to save the lives of addicts. Unfortunately they have been denied that right. This is a day to day thing affecting the life’s of people living here. There are other priorities though at stake in UK wide politics though so it can’t happen.



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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

And when put to the vote a clear majority said they weren’t convinced by the argument for separation.

This notion that one country has absolute control - I have to dispute. What does it actually mean? Is there an ‘English’ approach to decision making? Given the clear splits in England politically I don’t think you can back that up. Also, as I seem to have said countless times, practically every policy that impacts on our day-to-day life is within the powers of the Scottish Government and almost all have been for many years now. And for the entirety of Labour in power 1997-2010, Scottish MPs were massively over-represented and powerful in the UK government.

As long as nationalists bang on about being hard done to, all they will do is further embitter their committed and further alienate the potential swingers. And nobody really wins from that scenario.

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The snp separatists remind me of the tory maniacs that wags the torys tail. They're so encamped in their divisive small time snp nationalism that they would rather see the weakest in Scottish society suffer when the cuts in welfare and services batter the 'scottish economy and whatever currency' the eventually imagine upon, they literally couldn't care less.

The worst part is that most of those who're taken in by the snp pirate pied pipers are the worst off in society who'd expect to 'share' in the snp separatist brigadoon tax and hurt those who provide funds for both public and private services. The poorest and least able would be the hardest hit in any separatist scotland.

Its literally criminal how the snp separatists are taking in those who'd be worst hit by vastly decreased services and benefits which is a fact as they the snp couldn't even tell us what currency they'd use or what is their financial goal other than to give it away to the EU Germany and France mostly.

You couldn't make it up.

Mon Labour!!!

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

How many MEPs does Connacht get? Or East Flanders? Or Andalusia?

They are part of a sovereign state which gets far more votes than they do as a distinct but nevertheless a part, of that sovereign state.

Comparing Scotland to Ireland is facile.

And the use of ‘we’ and ‘they’ doesn’t stand up to scrutiny in the slightest, not least because it doesn’t reflect the fact that more Scots voted for ‘we’ to be linked in with England than voted against, by a clear majority, so maybe just stop it with the ‘we’?.

And finally, the notion that Scotland suffers because decisions are taken that are ‘right for England’ doesn’t hold any water at all. There is no such thing as an approach that is right for ‘England’. What is important and relevant in the South-West bears little comparison to what is important and relevant in Lancashire or East Anglia, let alone London.

Reads like resentment politics, “us and them”, nationalist trope but one that doesn’t carry much weight.

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Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]


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Oops, I take that back. While I was typing Tornado70 posted and I remembered that your ‘we’ posts are only the 2nd most boring thing on here. [emoji6]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

You couldn't make it up.

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Nope. But you somehow find a way. Bravo. :applause:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]


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Maybe it's because he is right and people keep making the same mistake over and over.

It's like Ian Blackford every day at Westminster 'the people of Scotlands voice will be heard' he does not speak for me or the majority.

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Originally Posted by James310

No, you would be more like this.

https://youtu.be/Wny6XhsV2hE

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James I don't know why you bother. Most of the snp separatists at least the scottish ones anyhow are so far gone that they're actually believing 'whaes like us' and that of course Germany and France would somehow treat us of similar wealth and stature.

Laughable, a real scottish aye fae me mate.

At least we're treated bigger than we are in the UK mate but don't mention that to the William Wallace's who never get far out of their fife villages for goodness sake.

:greengrin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]


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Nope, it's not just you. It's beyond tedious and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. It's the sort of thing people resort to, when they don't have a logical, well reasoned argument to make regarding the subject at hand.

For somebody who is apparently all for unity and togetherness. The concept of "we" certainly seems to bother them by an unhealthy degree. Perhaps "we" is only an acceptable term for those who fall into line with the status quo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]


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No worries :greengrin

But I will keep making the point if it’s okay because language is important.

Language creates a a discourse and discourse creates a narrative.

And all of a sudden you have a narrative where some strident and vocal posters on here keep repeating that ‘we’ had this done to us, ‘we’ dont have a say.

But when ‘we’ did have a say ‘we’ said bollocks to that by a clear majority.

It is up to nationalists to find a better way of expressing their arguments or sentiments. Claiming they speak for the majority by using the word ‘we’ is just a massive, shameful lie.

Hopefully you’re not missing anything now :greengrin

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Originally Posted by James310

Maybe it's because he is right and people keep making the same mistake over and over.

It's like Ian Blackford every day at Westminster 'the people of Scotlands voice will be heard' he does not speak for me or the majority.

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But he does speak for a larger minority in Scotland than the Conservatives do and a FAR larger minority than Labour.

Also, when he refers to "the people of Scotland". He's referring to the majority that voted to remain in the EU. That's how it works in politics. He's hardly going to pander to the minority. That's for failed parties in Scotland like Labour.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Nope, it's not just you. It's beyond tedious and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. It's the sort of thing people resort to, when they don't have a logical, well reasoned argument to make regarding the subject at hand.

For somebody who is apparently all for unity and togetherness. The concept of "we" certainly seems to bother them by an unhealthy degree. Perhaps "we" is only an acceptable term for those who fall into line with the status quo?

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When you cannot inform folk of what currency they'd be using or how their benefits, pensions,, wages, travel money, markets jobs etc etc would be affected by sudden transformation by a bunch of uber nationalists you'll always be naturally attacked by those who care about the wider world.

Come out of your maws bedroom fife.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

There doesn’t have to be an English approach as there’s without any doubt an English majority. Your point about Scottish MPs being massively over-represented in the labour government may well be true, but they served the UK, not Scotland. I realise that for some that is one and the same, but not for me.

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That doesn’t really answer the point about England having some form of dominance.

England is a split country with steadfast Tory shires, Labour heartlands, and at least for some of the time, Lib Dem strongholds. They do fluctuate occasionally but they are dissonant from one another.

Truro is as likely to vote with North East Fife as Monklands is to vote with Darlington and Eastwood to vote with Beaconsfield.

There is rarely an English majority and the most recent examples have been the Blair administrations, which introduced SureStart, child tax credits, pension credits and the minimum wage. Not exactly flying in the face of Scottish opinion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]


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And of course, you can respond to my points about Connacht and East Flanders or there being no such thing as an English approach in your own time :greengrin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

When you cannot inform folk of what currency they'd be using or how their benefits, pensions,, wages, travel money, markets jobs etc etc would be affected by sudden transformation by a bunch of uber nationalists you'll always be naturally attacked by those who care about the wider world.

come out of your bedroom fife.

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What is meant by "what currency"? The name they're going to call it? How much it will be worth? What it will look like?

As for "benefits, pensions, wages, travel money, market jobs etc etc". Ask the UK Government what these things are going to look like several years down the line in the UK and you'll get a strikingly similar response from them.

They can't guarentee the strength of the GBP several years down the line anymore than the Scottish Government can for a new established currency.

Unionists mock the SNP for failing to give guarantees that not even countries who already have their own established currencies can give.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

James I don't know why you bother. Most of the snp separatists at least the scottish ones anyhow are so far gone that they're actually believing 'whaes like us' and that of course Germany and France would somehow treat us of similar wealth and stature.

Laughable, a real scottish aye fae me mate.

At least we're treated bigger than we are in the UK mate but don't mention that to the William Wallace's who never get far out of their fife villages for goodness sake.

:greengrin

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What way are we “treated bigger than we are in the uk”?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The Scottish govt would like the power to set up drug treatment facilities in order to save the lives of addicts. Unfortunately they have been denied that right. This is a day to day thing affecting the life’s of people living here. There are other priorities though at stake in UK wide politics though so it can’t happen.



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Where are you getting that from?

Drug and alcohol treatment services are devolved to local drug and alcohol partnerships which are linked into community planning partnerships, which are on a statutory footing and well-established across Scotland.

Essentially, every local authority has one, with SG funding, unless they choose to link up with a neighbouring local authority (which often makes sense for practical reasons).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

What way are we “treated bigger than we are in the uk”?

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Remember when lord pishy breeks was bemoaning the fact that Scotland was out performing the rest of the UK by claiming that the SNP were "doing it on purpose"?

Perhaps that's what he means.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

What is meant by "what currency"? The name they're going to call it? How much it will be worth? What it will look like?

As for "benefits, pensions, wages, travel money, market jobs etc etc". Ask the UK Government what these things are going to look like several years down the line in the UK and you'll get a strikingly similar response from them.

They can't guarentee the strength of the GBP several years down the line anymore than the Scottish Government can for a new established currency.

Unionists mock the SNP for failing to give guarantees that not even countries who already have their own established currencies can give.

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Seriously?

You're either completely pished or the fool leading the poor and weak into complete poverty and some into probably death through destitute and non care/

Do you ever think before 'fife' posting?

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

What way are we “treated bigger than we are in the uk”?

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I don't even bother posting on your 'comments' any more as your'e just a troll who makes no sense whatsoever other than to similar snp trolls.

I don't even think you're a true hibs fan one from edinburgh and scotland but a trolll from who knows where.

Pash off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

The snp separatists remind me of the tory maniacs that wags the torys tail. They're so encamped in their divisive small time snp nationalism that they would rather see the weakest in Scottish society suffer when the cuts in welfare and services batter the 'scottish economy and whatever currency' the eventually imagine upon, they literally couldn't care less.

The worst part is that most of those who're taken in by the snp pirate pied pipers are the worst off in society who'd expect to 'share' in the snp separatist brigadoon tax and hurt those who provide funds for both public and private services. The poorest and least able would be the hardest hit in any separatist scotland.

Its literally criminal how the snp separatists are taking in those who'd be worst hit by vastly decreased services and benefits which is a fact as they the snp couldn't even tell us what currency they'd use or what is their financial goal other than to give it away to the EU Germany and France mostly.

You couldn't make it up.

Mon Labour!!!

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You're right, I probably couldn't.

You seem to manage quite well though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Where are you getting that from?

Drug and alcohol treatment services are devolved to local drug and alcohol partnerships which are linked into community planning partnerships, which are on a statutory footing and well-established across Scotland.

Essentially, every local authority has one, with SG funding, unless they choose to link up with a neighbouring local authority (which often makes sense for practical reasons).

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https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...w-to-open-one/



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

I don't even bother posting on your 'comments' any more as your'e just a troll who makes no sense whatsoever other than to similar snp trolls.

I don't even think you're a true hibs fan one from edinburgh and scotland but a trolll from who knows where.

Pash off.

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I’ll take that as a polite no to expanding on Scotland being “treated bigger than we are in the uk”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

What is meant by "what currency"? The name they're going to call it? How much it will be worth? What it will look like?

As for "benefits, pensions, wages, travel money, market jobs etc etc". Ask the UK Government what these things are going to look like several years down the line in the UK and you'll get a strikingly similar response from them.

They can't guarentee the strength of the GBP several years down the line anymore than the Scottish Government can for a new established currency.

Unionists mock the SNP for failing to give guarantees that not even countries who already have their own established currencies can give.

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You are completely missing the point, deliberately or not I am not sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

It’s simple for me. The people who live in Scotland should decide everything for the people of Scotland.

Whether that is deciding to cede some policy to the EU or not. It’s the choice for the people of Scotland to make. No one else.

J

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The Folk of Scotland made their voice very well known just a few years ago by proclaiming to remain within the United Kingdom.

Are you an idiot or decided to simply ignore an unambigious vote result?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Seriously?

You're either completely pished or the fool leading the poor and weak into complete poverty and some into probably death through destitute and non care/

Do you ever think before 'fife' posting?

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Thanks for that last post, for a good while I've thought you were a bit of a 'slow' Labour supporter and felt you should be allowed to express yourself (care in the community and all that), now, reading the above that's incorrect and I've been giving labour a bad name because of you... Reality is you're simply a boring Troll. Who you support is anyone's guess.



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Was having 2nd thoughts about my last post then I saw his later ones.. I've been too kind!.... Sigh....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Thanks for that last post, for a good while I've thought you were a bit of a 'slow' Labour supporter and felt you should be allowed to express yourself (care in the community and all that), now, reading the above that's incorrect and I've been giving labour a bad name because of you... Reality is you're simply a boring Troll. Who you support is anyone's guess.



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Yeah right.

Everyone who attempts to point out the faults with snp nationalism is a 'troll'.

What currency, benefits, welfare, pensions, jobs, careeers etc?

Ought to be ashamed of yourself leading the poor into destitution and the ill of health into probably death.

Mon Labour

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

That doesn’t really answer the point about England having some form of dominance.

England is a split country with steadfast Tory shires, Labour heartlands, and at least for some of the time, Lib Dem strongholds. They do fluctuate occasionally but they are dissonant from one another.

Truro is as likely to vote with North East Fife as Monklands is to vote with Darlington and Eastwood to vote with Beaconsfield.

There is rarely an English majority and the most recent examples have been the Blair administrations, which introduced SureStart, child tax credits, pension credits and the minimum wage. Not exactly flying in the face of Scottish opinion?

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Whether they all agree with each other is largely irrelevant. The fact that is if enough of them stick together they can have a decisive say in how all 4 countries in the UK are governed. In Scotland we can’t do that. We are at the mercy of whatever our larger neighbor thinks is best for them.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Whether they all agree with each other is largely irrelevant. The fact that is if enough of them stick together they can have a decisive say in how all 4 countries in the UK are governed. In Scotland we can’t do that. We are at the mercy of whatever our larger neighbor thinks is best for them.

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And how would that work out for the EU?

We'd go from second largest within our group of islands to 27th or whatever?

Are you for real?

I actually care about Scotland ya.

Mon Labour!!!

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...w-to-open-one/



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Aah, I remember this from last year. It’s interesting but it’s not a nationalist issue - harm reduction in Glasgow doesn’t differ to any great degree from harm reduction in Birmingham or Cardiff. There are active voices in every part of the UK who wish to treat it as a criminal issue, just as much as those who see it as a public health issue, or a broader health and well-being issue.

I am not sure how knowledgeable you are about the work done in Scotland by the various Drug and Alcohol Partnerships I referred to earlier. Most have taken an approach in recent years based on destigmatisation and trying to avoid criminalising people, and that, to some extent has been effective. It’s no different from the rest of the UK. I think when you talk about being denied the right to save the lives of addicts you are being overly emotive and that is irresponsible.

I would recognise that a devolutionary Scotland has been slightly ahead of the game in thinking about how to align government policy closer to a human rights-based approach. There has been a greater focus on treating societal ills in the broadest sense - looking at them not as criminal or spend-to-fix but as public health or social health - or basing our standards and expectations on UN-defined rights and the PANEL principles. That is laudable and it’s no doubt common knowledge that the approaches taken in this country to public sector reform and improvement attract attention from many quarters.

Its actually getting to the bit where I realise none of the snp separatists actually care a tuppeny bit about Scotland and its folk. None of them argue the currencey or what impact depreciation of currency would have upon it whatever it was called.

If you want to remain poor vote tory, if you want to destitute yourself vote snp/greens. If you want to avoid any of the first two vote Labour.

The Snp bots do not care about you or how your life unfolds. All they care about is breaking up the UK. if that's you're lifelong goal also by all means side with them but you were warned.

Mon Labour!!!

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Whether they all agree with each other is largely irrelevant. The fact that is if enough of them stick together they can have a decisive say in how all 4 countries in the UK are governed. In Scotland we can’t do that. We are at the mercy of whatever our larger neighbor thinks is best for them.

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“...If enough of them stick together”

”...We are at the mercy”

I’m sorry but how desperate does that sound?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Aah, I remember this from last year. It’s interesting but it’s not a nationalist issue - harm reduction in Glasgow doesn’t differ to any great degree from harm reduction in Birmingham or Cardiff. There are active voices in every part of the UK who wish to treat it as a criminal issue, just as much as those who see it as a public health issue, or a broader health and well-being issue.

I am not sure how knowledgeable you are about the work done in Scotland by the various Drug and Alcohol Partnerships I referred to earlier. Most have taken an approach in recent years based on destigmatisation and trying to avoid criminalising people, and that, to some extent has been effective. It’s no different from the rest of the UK. I think when you talk about being denied the right to save the lives of addicts you are being overly emotive and that is irresponsible.

I would recognise that a devolutionary Scotland has been slightly ahead of the game in thinking about how to align government policy closer to a human rights-based approach. There has been a greater focus on treating societal ills in the broadest sense - looking at them not as criminal or spend-to-fix but as public health or social health - or basing our standards and expectations on UN-defined rights and the PANEL principles. That is laudable and it’s no doubt common knowledge that the approaches taken in this country to public sector reform and improvement attract attention from many quarters.

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And if the decision was to be taken in Edinburgh rather than London it would be a different one. Doesn’t matter if it’s the right or wrong decision. The Scottish Parliament would go in a different direction on this issue.
But instead we are tied to the ‘just say no’ brigade in the Tory party. We have them in Scotland but they are a minority. Unfortunately the numbers in England mean they are in power in the UK and the Scottish Parliament is powerless on this issue.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

And if the decision was to be taken in Edinburgh rather than London it would be a different one. Doesn’t matter if it’s the right or wrong decision. The Scottish Parliament would go in a different direction on this issue.
But instead we are tied to the ‘just say no’ brigade in the Tory party. We have them in Scotland but they are a minority. Unfortunately the numbers in England mean they are in power in the UK and the Scottish Parliament is powerless on this issue.


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You can’t answer in detail about drug policy can you? Despite you bringing it up.

You shouldn’t flag it up if you aren’t confident about your premise. You’ve got a lot of talk but not a lot of proof.

Criminal law in Scotland has changed masssively over recent years, and likewise in the rest of the UK. The recent guidance on the presumption of avoiding short sentences has been trialled in Scotland and looks successful. England and Wales look like adopting it.

It is getting a lengthy list now C but how about acknowledging that Drug and Alcohol Partnerships spread around the country are the critical element in drug treatment services?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James310

You are completely missing the point, deliberately or not I am not sure.

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What point is that? That the SNP should have impossible answers?

The SNP could quite easily make some stuff up to give people a false sense of confidence. I respect them for not doing do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]

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Disagree. Doesn't do any harm at all to point out that people are often being very lazy with the "we this" "we that" "the people of Scotland want this" "the people of Scotland want that" chat. I don't see it as any different from talking about "the people of Edinburgh believe this" "the people of Glasgow believe that" (which you never hear, perhaps because it's so obviously bollocks). For many people, the border between England and Scotland is an administrative boundary, nothing more, and the idea that the will of the Scottish people, or the will of the British people, is anything more than a lazy linguistic shorthand is pitiable. Ian Blackford is a repeat offender in the House of Commons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

You can’t answer in detail about drug policy can you? Despite you bringing it up.

You shouldn’t flag it up if you aren’t confident about your premise. You’ve got a lot of talk but not a lot of proof.

Criminal law in Scotland has changed masssively over recent years, and likewise in the rest of the UK. The recent guidance on the presumption of avoiding short sentences has been trialled in Scotland and looks successful. England and Wales look like adopting it.

It is getting a lengthy list now C but how about acknowledging that Drug and Alcohol Partnerships spread around the country are the critical element in drug treatment services?

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Is this an area where Scotland has chosen a different solution but can not put the chosen policy in place due to lack of the power to do so or not?

I can acknowledge that I’m no expert in most things. It often results in pretentious educated snobs looking down their nose at me but I plough on regardless. Sometimes I learn something but it’s rare.



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voted Conservative purely because I oppose referendums on indy and the EU.

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Originally Posted by Stranraer

voted Conservative purely because I oppose referendums on indy and the EU.

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Nothing wrong with that. And in a clear and to the point post. A rarity on this board.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

What point is that? That the SNP should have impossible answers?

The SNP could quite easily make some stuff up to give people a false sense of confidence. I respect them for not doing do.

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We have gone over the currency questions many times. They are valid questions, if not why was it such an important issue at the SNP conference and was for many a major stumbling block at the last referendum. Nobody is asking what the £ will be worth against the € in 5 years because unless you are regularly exchanging money between the two or run an import and export busines it's not a significant concern. In an Independent Scotland you will be required to exchange money all the time to pay for lots of things. So valid questions will be asked about the things that matter to people.

Maybe also because the SNP have flip flopped so many times on this issue some people have little confidence in them having the ability to deliver this. This is their 3rd attempt in the last 10 years so again perfectly valid to challenge and ask questions to the people proposing to make significant change.

Or if you like yes the SNP should come out and say actually we have no idea if the £500 you pay each month for your mortgage will increase or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James310

We have gone over the currency questions many times. They are valid questions, if not why was it such an important issue at the SNP conference and was for many a major stumbling block at the last referendum. Nobody is asking what the £ will be worth against the € in 5 years because unless you are regularly exchanging money between the two or run an import and export busines it's not a significant concern. In an Independent Scotland you will be required to exchange money all the time to pay for lots of things. So valid questions will be asked about the things that matter to people.

Maybe also because the SNP have flip flopped so many times on this issue some people have little confidence in them having the ability to deliver this. This is their 3rd attempt in the last 10 years so again perfectly valid to challenge and ask questions as the people proposing to make significant change.

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It is definitely fair and healthy to ask questions around currency post independence. However why don’t you seem as concerned about the pound and what will happen to it post Brexit? That is something happening here and now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

It is definitely fair and healthy to ask questions around currency post independence. However why don’t you seem as concerned about the pound and what will happen to it post Brexit? That is something happening here and now.

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Because I am not regularly exchanging the £ every month to pay for things like my mortgage. Post Brexit I will still be paid in £ and pay my mortgage in £.

Do you regularly look at the exchange rates as you do your family budgeting?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James310

Because I am not regularly exchanging the £ every month to pay for things like my mortgage. Post Brexit I will still be paid in £ and pay my mortgage in £.

Do you regularly look at the exchange rates as you do your family budgeting?

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Is that your only concern over currency, be it Independence or the here and now of Brexit, what currency’s you have to exchange in your day to day life? Are you not concerned about the strength of the pound post Brexit and what impact that will have on pensions, mortgages etc in 5 years, 10 years etc etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Its actually getting to the bit where I realise none of the snp separatists actually care a tuppeny bit about Scotland and its folk. None of them argue the currencey or what impact depreciation of currency would have upon it whatever it was called.

If you want to remain poor vote tory, if you want to destitute yourself vote snp/greens. If you want to avoid any of the first two vote Labour.

The Snp bots do not care about you or how your life unfolds. All they care about is breaking up the UK. if that's you're lifelong goal also by all means side with them but you were warned.

Mon Labour!!!

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This rabid nonsense is precisely why Labour are, and will continue to be, nowhere near power in Scotland.

You're banging on about tackling poverty and deprivation, yet it was a Scottish Labour leader that helped deliver a Tory government in 2017 and the continuation of horrific policies that impact the most vulnerable in our society. The fact that you see the SNP as more of an enemy than the tories says it all about Labour.

You're precious about the union, but Richard Leonard could do with learning about Holyroods spending power. He has spent plenty time calling for more money to be spent in certain areas, without once identifying what he would cut to pay for it.

Thankfully most voters can see through this nonsense, reflected in Labour continuing to languish in the polls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

Is that your only concern over currency, be it Independence or the here and now of Brexit, what currency’s you have to exchange in your day to day life? Are you not concerned about the strength of the pound post Brexit and what impact that will have on pensions, mortgages etc in 5 years, 10 years etc etc.

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It's not something that keeps me awake at night no. The £ has depreciated against the € significantly since 2016 but it's had very little impact on my day to day life as I am not needing lots of € to run my household. My mortgage payments have remained the same the whole time.

If however every month I am wondering how much money I need to exchange to pay my mortgage and will it be 30% of my income or maybe 40% this month, then yes that's a worry for me, and it should be for most people as well.

We have always had the issue of the £ going up and down against other currencies but unless you run an import and export business or are required to regularly exchange money then it's probably of little interest to you. It will become of interest to a lot more people if we move to a separate currency, hence why people will ask questions that they don't ask today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I can acknowledge that I’m no expert in most things. It often results in pretentious educated snobs looking down their nose at me but I plough on regardless. Sometimes I learn something but it’s rare.

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Absolutely no need for that comment.

Insulting someone for being educated demeans you, Ozy.

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Originally Posted by James310

It's not something that keeps me awake at night no. The £ has depreciated against the € significantly since 2016 but it's had very little impact on my day to day life as I am not needing lots of € to run my household. My mortgage payments have remained the same.

If however every month I am wondering how much money I need to exchange to pay my mortgage and will it be 30% of my income or maybe 40% this month, then yes that's a worry for me, and it should be for most people as well.

We have always had the issue of the £ going up and down against other currencies but unless you run an import and export business or are required to regularly exchange money then it's probably of little interest to you. It will become of interest to a lot more people if we move to a separate currency, hence why people will ask questions that they don't ask today.

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I’m with you on asking questions around currency, and I’ve still to be fully convinced on the currency debate. However I can’t help but feel it’s hypocritical of you to constantly talk about how much money you will need to convert (which is an assumption as to not using the £ or pegging to it) yet dismiss the economic impact of Brexit and the decline of the £ as “we have always had the issue of the pound going up and down” as if we’re not in uncharted territory and it’s just another normal year.

If you were equally as concerned about the economy and the strength of the pound as you are a Scottish currency I’d be there with you and want to know the answers. However you seem very laissez faire to the current economic climate and the effect of Brexit on the £, but have your forensic magnifying glass on independence.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

“...If enough of them stick together”

”...We are at the mercy”

I’m sorry but how desperate does that sound?

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Put it another way. If the electorate in England feel strongly enough about something they can effect change in a general election and the rest of the UK simply has to go along with it whether we agree or not.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

I’m with you on asking questions around currency, and I’ve still to be fully convinced on the currency debate. However I can’t help but feel it’s hypocritical of you to constantly talk about how much money you will need to convert (which is an assumption as to not using the £ or pegging to it) yet dismiss the economic impact of Brexit and the decline of the £ as “we have always had the issue of the pound going up and down” as if we’re not in uncharted territory and it’s just another normal year.

If you were equally as concerned about the economy and the strength of the pound as you are a Scottish currency I’d be there with you and want to know the answers. However you seem very laissez faire to the current economic climate and the effect of Brexit on the £, but have your forensic magnifying glass on independence.

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But as I say my mortgage payments will still be paid in £ post Brexit, I will still be paid in £ post Brexit. Nothing changes. By far my biggest monthly outgoing is my mortgage so it's my biggest concern. Today I have certainty what I am paying each month and what % of my income that is. That certainty I have dissappears post Indy with a new currency so its a bigger issue than say the oranges I buy at Morrisons have gone up 30p since last year as they are imported from Spain. I might choose to not buy organges this time, but I don't have a choice to not pay my mortgage.

Has your life changed significantly since 2016 and when the £ started to depreciate against the €? Is it something you need to think about each month?

Of course I am going to question this minute detail, it is something I have an influence on by the way I vote if there ever is another referendum.

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Its actually getting to the bit where I realise none of the snp separatists actually care a tuppeny bit about Scotland and its folk. None of them argue the currencey or what impact depreciation of currency would have upon it whatever it was called.

If you want to remain poor vote tory, if you want to destitute yourself vote snp/greens. If you want to avoid any of the first two vote Labour.

The Snp bots do not care about you or how your life unfolds. All they care about is breaking up the UK. if that's you're lifelong goal also by all means side with them but you were warned.

Mon Labour!!!

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Have you any idea of the value of the pound since 2010?

I'll give you a clue, it's only gone one way. 👇

Strong and stable, wibble wobble.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Have you any idea of the value of the pound since 2010?

I'll give you a clue, it's only gone one way. 👇

Strong and stable, wibble wobble.

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Is this the same pound that the SNP want to use for an undetermined number of years? If its such a wibble wobble why is that their policy? Why not go straight to a brand new currency on day 1?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

And if the decision was to be taken in Edinburgh rather than London it would be a different one. Doesn’t matter if it’s the right or wrong decision. The Scottish Parliament would go in a different direction on this issue.
But instead we are tied to the ‘just say no’ brigade in the Tory party. We have them in Scotland but they are a minority. Unfortunately the numbers in England mean they are in power in the UK and the Scottish Parliament is powerless on this issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Some folk are more interested in the English shires, it makes them feel big.

The points lost on them, that young Scots have died due to the current UK set up of governance, and the inability to see a way out. Power is everything to them.

They don't really care, as long as they can redesign their vocabulary, and throw the R away.

Michael Gove, anyone.