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Much as I appreciate CWGs posts I don't think they have the same coverage as the bloggers you mention, and with the continual highlighting of the inconsistencies of 2012 events the court case may never have got going. The msm were never going to raise it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
BDO got away with their dishonest scam when they confirmed Hearts CVA because nobody, out with few posters on here , were interested.
I'd perhaps pay attention to these bloggers and not treat them with contempt if they didn't come out with outright lies and I hadn't realized long ago that they were trying to sell me something.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
https://audioboom.com/boos/3626056-t...source=twitter
Worth a listen
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Not commenting on the Rangers case, but HMRC dines out on tenuous claims. Unlike a legal court with an HMRC charge there is no presumption of innocence. You are guilty until you prove otherwise. As most people have neither the means or sophistication to fight this over the long term HRMC coins it in tenuous claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Untainted & factual - while some are blindsided by "outbursts" from individuals they dinnae like, the big picture goin back a long time is that 2 & ONLY 2, teams in Scotland used devious means to gain advantage against ALL teams in Scotland, but the one that sticks wi me is all the savs & huns times getting above Hibs, but, whoever the individual & whatever their main leanings, the fact that said savs & huns beat my team, namely Hibernian FC, in leagues & cups, while ILLEGALLY doing so financially, (while my team suffered defeats but followed the law & guidelines) means that anyone, regardless wether I respect them from afore cos they were good, but if your sticking up for the the's or the savs sorry but thats not my cup of tea. They want their "history" but they don't want mention of how it's tainted? Sorry. It's tainted.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
Pass the hatstand, Mildred.Quote:
Originally Posted by majorhibs
Absolutely, nothing to do with football but this is my personal bitter experience of themQuote:
Originally Posted by hctroubador
Add in to the fact that the players involved had to sign 2 contracts, one for the EBT's and one to comply with SFA rules...Ogilvie served on the RFC board and the on the SFA at the same time, directly making the SFA aware of what was going on...and they say FIFA is corrupt???
I'd agree with that :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaff
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Wouldn't you add Dundee, Gretna and (with particular reference to Hibs ) Livi to that list?Quote:
Originally Posted by majorhibs
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https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...ning-on-fumes/
Money running out?
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if his numbers are right then someone needs to bail them out or they doomef again!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
if his numbers are right then someone needs to bail them out or they doomed again!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...ertible-facts/
Here are his numbers.
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I will believe that only when it happens, they have more lives than a cat.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
He starts off slagging Phil for having no legitimacy to his claims, and then makes assertions of his own which would require inside information of an extremely detailed nature. He may well have that, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
However, he then blows his "incontrovertible" claims out of the water by making a complete pig's ear of the question of VAT. :rolleyes:
VAT was their downfall the last time wasn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Maybe they've still not got to grips with it!
He seems to think the 13-14 revenue includes the share issue and Ashley loan. I think that's wrong and that the projected loss for this season should be around £4 million. It's still a serious problem for them, but doesn't indicate that the cash will run out this month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The share money he is talking about is the loans from the 3 bears. Not sure what year that was though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
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Yeah, I picked up on that, too. By that time, his incontrovertible evidence was shot to bits and my eyes were glazing over. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
The other thing worth bearing in mind is that the VAT should still be included in the cash flow. Albeit, at some stage, it has to be paid over to HMRC, it doesn't mean that they will. As in the previous situation, non-payment of VAT and PAYE can be used to buy time.
He seems to be saying that it is income, though. Ie that it counts towards profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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I don't think finances are his speciality.
I think it predates the share involvement of the 3 bears and King and their loans. There was a rights issue while Ashley, Laxey and the Easedale group still controlled over 50% of the shares and I think it refers to that. I can't remember the exact date of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Clearly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
He does, though, seem to have (or thinks he has) an insight into "something". What that is, we can't know. However, it feels to me as if he has taken a little knowledge of that something, and built a lot of assumptions around it.
One of those being that VAT is 25% :greengrin
If anything is going to kill the Rangers , it will be cash flow as they have no credit facilities.
it can't just be assumed they have £ 8 million plus for seasons as they have a monthly payments plan, so their spending pot will be reduced by an amount that is anybody's guess.
Walk ups, and commercial can be estimated but I can't see it lasting after November if, they are paying all their bills as they fall due !
now where have we heard that phrase before. :greengrin
The longer they manage to hold it together this season, the more likely they are to get some short - term funding to allow them to make it to the end.....or at least until next season's ST'S go on sale.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
In the interim, I hope that HMRC are being vigilant :)
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Won't they have to be paying such things on a monthly basis because of their 'history' rather than the usual quarterly?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
One would hope they wouldn't be given much rope before hanging them anyway!
It's normal for HMRC to demand monthly payments if the company has a bad past record, or if the people involved have a bad record elsewhere. Problem in this case is that it's a new company, with a new cast of characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
Not sure if they could justify such a demand in this case.
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How funny would it be if they managed to keep winning, strengthen in January for 'tilt at Premiership title next season', extend lead to 15 points and then in say late March had an insolvency event... And a 25 point penalty and we go 10 points clear with only 6 or 7 games to go!!!!!
Hilarious :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Col2
But, if they get as far as March they'll make it to the end of the season.
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Good point. Season ticket advance sales and all that.... Ok November or just before Xmas and I am happy:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Is it not this week they are in court with Charles Green about paying his legal bills? That could change the game very quickly as they just don't have the money for that.
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Very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by hctroubador
Meanwhile stuff like this goes unchecked for years....
You might be right about the timing. However, I don't expect that it will be a game-changer yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The likeliest scenario will be that the Court will adjourn the case to allow the club to get their defence together. However, if CG's lawyers are smart, they will ask the Court to order that a certain amount of money be set aside, just in case the club runs out of money. (like wot Imran did....).
That latter scenario would be nice.
Even when HMRC know that they are dealing with a convicted tax dodging criminal?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Thing is I doubt Cheery Charlie will be willing to come to a settlement like others have. He will want them to stick to the contract:rules: and pay in full.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Who has been called a glib and shameless liar in a court of law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
He wasn't involved when the company was set up, and became VAT registered. That's the point at which HMRC normally make the "monthly" demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
If RFC have been on time with their Returns and payments thus far, HMRC will take no action. However, if there have been lapses, they might then decide to have another look at things. King's history might then become an issue.
I'm not suggesting that there will be a settlement. What I'm suggesting is that £x might be set aside in an independent account, ring-fenced.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
I'm not sure how the legal process work but surely they can't adjourn too long as Charlie is due in court before the end of the month for their preliminary hearings. Surely he needs to know who is paying for his defence before that? Would they hold up the whole case while one defendant sorts out his legal fees?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...e-cash-crisis/
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Strangely, a post querying his misunderstanding of VAT has been deleted.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think buying time is a favourite game played by defences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
In any event, like you say, it's only a preliminary hearing. It will be months before it gets anywhere near the meaty bits.
If even some of that is correct then it's really bad news, I mean of course great news for us. Sevco are a dream, has any one institution ever had such a succession of shysters in charge? The gift that keeps on giving!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Phil Mac has a new piece to his blog entitled King has a Plan. Sorry can't post a copy.
basically says King is flying in to tell the People if they want their club saved they will have to dig deep themselves.
it sort of worked for the Liths with the puddle drinkers at the PBS, raised over a million, so who knows.
Is it really good for us though?Quote:
Originally Posted by brog
I have a feeling that they'll weasel their way through this season by fair means or foul (let's face it - it's going to be foul).
This season is big for us as we're up against them directly. But surely it won't be that difficult for them to squeeze through another few months and start selling season tickets for the premier league at inflated prices in January or so, with them 20 points or so clear at the top of the league?
I reckon that they have another day of reckoning coming. But by then they'll be back in the top league, filling the away ends at Killie and Hearts and the fact that they'll have horsed us this season using money that they didn't have will be conveniently forgotten (as tends to happen with this kind of thing in Scotland).
They have not horsed us this season except an understreangth Hibs side in some diddy cup. The league game was a tight affair with our new signing still settling in. 3 league games left and I expect a minimum of 7 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Fair point, except I don't see them dropping many points over the course of the season and I still see us dropping silly points via being unable to break down defensive teams over the course of this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by southsider
The cumulative effect of that is a horsing over the course of a season.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by brog
However, his manner in dealing with dissent, or even reasonable questioning, is p'ing me off. There seems to be no shades of blue with the guy.
Obviously I'm speaking without the benefit of a crystal ball, but I would be amazed if The Rangers had anything even remotely like an insolvency event this season, or any season going forward, and no amount of ramblings from clearly biased bloggers will change my mind on that.
If we want to win the league, we'll have to do it the usual way- get more points than the rest of the league. There's zero chance (IMHO) of us benefiting from a points deduction to The Rangers.
I agree that it seems unlikely because we can't see who benefits but it is still possible. They need money put in before the end of the season and whoever puts it in is unlikely to see it again. Something will have to give soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
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Not sure what you mean by this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I'd reckon than 95% of administrations happen because there is no other option. It's not about who "benefits."
Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
I agree with matty_f about the integrity of these anti-Sevco bloggers and also that Sevco will have any significant financial problems. We talk scathingly about King and his cronies but nobody really knows anything about their financial clout. Their on-field progress is unfortunately well underway and I have no doubts that any financial hurdles will be cleared as and when they occur, by whichever individuals and groups have their club at heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I've now made 4 attempts at posting on his blog, to query some of his fundamental assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Not one has been published. :greengrin
Does he not know who you are? 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34456881
Whilst we all know it is a non starter, it would be nice to think a big club would come along and cherry pick one of their assets.
Level 5 earning their fees there.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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Clearly he does.... :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by HoboHarry
It would cost them, though.... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Been having a look a the great Warbo's business empire outwith football. Mark Howard Warburton is full name.
All available free with Companies house BETA service.
Director and member of 5 companies and LLP's, 4 struck off and remaining one awaiting compulsory strikeoff. One had £ 5 million owed to one of its other directors.
The family house in Potters Bar is noted too, nice enough, but not what you would expect a high flying City trader to retire to.
As Oz says, Level 5 earn their money .
With a massive transfer fee going to Wigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
All it would take for Warburton to "enter the race" is for someone to stick some cash on him at a bookies. Hell, one of us could stick some cash on Calderwood and before you know it, he'd be linked, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...-19-september/
johnjames says he welcomes contributions to the site as long as they are unadulterated !
What have you been saying to him ? :greengrin
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
That he canny work a calculator.... :rolleyes:
Did you read his piece on the Sevco shuffle ? sailing pretty close to the wind with the forthcoming court case.
Do you mean that JJ is sailing close to the wind?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
If so, absolutely. It reads like a statement from the prosecution. :greengrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yep, that's why I did'nt post a link. Canny have the admins being huckled for contempt.
Yup, when I checked this morning Warburton was 100/1 for the Liverpool job. The same as Pat Fenlon!Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Hilarious that he's talking himself up for the Liverpool job!Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithTheHibby
Hey, this guy who won Bundesliga twice and got to CL Final seems interested, but then we heard about a bloke who's managed in the 2nd tier in both England AND Scotland! Sign him up!
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/ove...tors-required/
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John James also mentioned this escrow account. Whilst I understand what it means. ......it's not a term that is normally used in the UK. It's an American term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Edit. It seems that HMRC use it in certain circumstances. Maybe I'm just not used to dodgy clients :)
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Does appear that they need cash quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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Strewth. Clutching at straws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
What makes you think that?Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
Indisputable facts are by October last season Rangers received £ 3.1 million from a share issue and £ 2 million from Ashley in a loan.
Then had to ask for another £ 1 million in November .
They will need extra cash sometime soon.
Because he's been hinting at impending financial crisis for months, and in the absense of anything happening he's still doing the same - with the same oh so familiar pops at the MSM for good measure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Clearly, not all is rosy at The Rangers. Money might well be quite tight and the Lying King certainly doesn't seem to have backed his big words with big cash. But it doesn't necessarily mean administration is on the cards.
Mike Ashley might enjoy seeing them squirm, but I imagine he also wants to see them promoted this season.
He doesn't say admin is on the cards, just that they are running out of cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
Admin can be prevented by someone putting in a big chunk of cash.
Do you think Mike Ashley will put up the dough?
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He might need his money back to get shot of Steve McLaren. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...th-no-clothes/
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I think that Whyte and Green case has been moved to the High Court in Edinburgh.
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If rangers can't prove 18 months liquidity, how the are able to keep their licence? The more I read the more fraudulent it appears re our footballing authorities. Action must be taken as this cannot continue. Fit and proper? My big fat ass!
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...eens-petition/
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Running out of cash = admin... unless, as you say, someone puts money in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It could be that King et al DO have more cash, but won't put any in unless they absolutely have to.
Ashley certainly could bail them out again if he wants to, but has an incentive to wait until they are begging him for money before doing so.
Who knows?
My money would be on Ashley re-taking control by the short'n'curlies. He's spent enough time and money on it, so he must see some return to be made there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomoseven
Ashley will bail them out if he has to as his interests in Sevco are only of value if the club is alive and flourishing. If he has to go to Ashley cap in hand, Kng won't like it as he will lose face with the fans, but any port in a storm as they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Ashley can't take control. he has already been fined by the SFA for duel control of football clubs.
His £ 5 million loan is secured on some of the club property assets and his interests in Rangers Retail will prevail through administration or liquidation of the football club.
The only source of cash are the rangers support , or as Vlad so accurately referred to them as the " Simple Fans " :greengrin
Even liquidation does not get rid of Ashley as he has the intellectual property rights and security over everything except Ibrox.
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He can't take a majority shareholding.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
This might sound to easy, but could he not sell Newcastle to his 'friend' (insert name) then be the major shareholder in rangers, do as he wishes, then sell them on and re buy newcastle form his 'friend'?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Ashley is not a Rangers supporter. He will be quite happy to wait and let the rangers people sort things out even if it takes a few more seasons.
As long as there are people kicking a ball and calling themselves Rangers , there will be a market for his merchandise.
There are very strict laws about that sort of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibee87
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@sitonfence: Friday 16th October
Preliminary Hearing
CA196/15 Charles Green v The Rangers International Football Club Plc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
http://www.sfm.scot/the-case-for-a-n...e-7/?cid=19782
Being suggested it has been moved to Edinburgh as all seven will be pleading guilty to the charges in return for shorter sentences.
That could prove an immediate problem for Sevco. Money was raised on the Stock Exchange by fraud. The Exchange can petition for immediate liquidation of the defrauding entity.
I would be amazed if one of them plead guilty never mind all of them. I would rather have the long trial with lots of laundry getting washed in public and the outing of the involvement of the SFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Me too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
This. On the park the club is on the up, which in turn means more sales of strips etc.
Off the park who knows however his security will mean he won't lose much if anything at all if it all goes tits up.
Exactly why the Establishment would want a guilty plea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Of course it would depend on the case and evidence against each individual , but the alternative of 10 years in the Bar-L or 2 years say in a cosy jail and parole after 9 months could be attractive to the accused.
Liquidation would get rid of the security, whether or not he was repaid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
As for the IP rights, not sure they would be worth much if the club didn't exist any more :)
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Wouldn't that be nice. [emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/...perfect-storm/
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