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Fair play to you for giving a view at odd with the majority on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
The more we hear about what went on at Rangers the angrier I get. Last nights programme laid waste to the 'Craig Whyte did it and ran away' argument. Murray is as big a shyster as Whyte. The removal of SPL status and titles won during their years of cheating should be the minimum punishment.
I agree with you that their fans have been wronged. As said above, though, Rangers have massive achievements to their name on the back of their dodgy financial dealings - at the expense of others, and in a way which distorted the financial outlook on the game in Scotland. A lot of the anger is about the fact that Rangers, the footballing authorities, and Chairmen of some other clubs appear to value Rangers' presence in the SPL ahead of sporting integrity, and the sporting interests of the other teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
I don't think the current crisis has much in common with our dark days. We had to dig ourselves out of that, with the help of STF, and would almost certainly have not been offered the kind of assistance that Rangers, Doncaster et al are looking for. We would have been left to rot.
Exactly. Shyster no. 1 in our affair was David Rowland who simply wanted to sell the assets - football wasn't even a consideration. Rangers, on the other hand, have cheated to attract the best possible players to the club (often to the detriment of other Scottish teams) - their recent domestic and European "success" has extremely dodgy foundations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
I tended to have a little sympathy with Flash's view up until previous, what I thought were decent Rangers supporters way above the usual sectarian crap, posted on my son's FB before the final that we were just mini Tims and they hoped we get humped. Said decent huns have now received emails from me telling them that I hope their club just dies.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
This , plus they chased the big money from Europe to help fund this...it didn't work. They were willing to shaft every other club in the SPL, along with their cousins in the east end, by trying to join the EPL/ atlantic league, or any other league they could possibly get in bar Scotland and their fans backed them all the way. So i'm sorry if I can't feel anything for them or their fans except contempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Cheers for the replies- i agree with the gist of them.
I suppose what i am trying to say is rather than risk losing thousands of fans to the game at a particularly bad time i would much rather see those directly responsible held to account in a court of law.
There is no doubt that a newco should have to start from the bottom.
As ever though the fans will be the ones who suffer most.
George Adams, previous head of youth development at Ibrox, received a little over £30,000 through his EBT. Many of you may not have heard of this man (after all, he is hardly a household name), however, Mr Adams is the director of football at newly promoted Ross County, one of the teams who would theoretically have a vote in any decision to allow (or not allow) any NewCo Rangers back into the SPL. This is a conflict of interest. :agree:
I understand what you are saying, but there's one question you should ask every hun you know. And thats would you change all that glory, and quality signings they made if you knew what was going to happen now?Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
Each and every hun i know has said no, they wouldn't change a thing. These were the best days of their lives supporting them they tell me.
Well they need that balanced out now imo, and perhaps their opinion might be different the next time?
Yup....but compared to Campbell O who is head honcho at SFA who will be appeals body should SPL find against Rangers in 'double contracts'.....that is almost irrelevent.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18sry
There is going to be a lot more of this to come
Attachment 8296
Any photo shop experts stick Doncasters head on this :greengrin
This! They were more than happy to enjoy the good times, no questions asked. Payback!Quote:
Originally Posted by erskine-hibby
I can see them getting punished, but I still think they will get away with it. The SPL seem to be taking their time with the investigation. IMO, I think it will be concluded shortly after Ranges have reformed as a Newco and therefore the SPL will take the stance of, 'they are a new company now and by law we cant punish them for something another company has done'. Rangers continue in the SPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
If the SPL concluded their investigation now, and handed out the punishment and demoted them to division 3, the newco would have to start there. Doncaster is pushing this Newco being allowed straight back in. The SPL will say at the end of all this that they would have punished Old Rangers severely but their hands were tied as its now a different company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibs13681
These EBT's have broken the SFA rules and the club should have it's membership withdrawn.
Takes the decision out of the SPL's hands.
If they're such a big club they can reform in the Juniors and work their way up.
Difficult choice - Tubeway Army or (Down the) Tube(s)way Army?Quote:
Originally Posted by crewetollhibee
Ogilvie should resign .. and if not he should be TOLD to step down.Quote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
Remember that Ogilvie also took this EBT scheme to Hearts when he left Rangers, so to say he knew nothing about players and side contracts must prove him to be an out and out liar.
An Observation;
Given that Celtic have now admitted that they used an EBT will those that are defending Rangers (SPL, Sportsound et al) use this to try to drag Celtic into this mess and argue that the quantity dosent matter but the fact that they did it should attract the same punishment. Albeit Celtic used it once and, when advised, they stopped it.
Furthermore this would be a good time for Hearts to admit theirs and it would make it difficult/awkward for firm penalties to be enforced against Rangers. and allow their own misdemeanours to slip under the radar.
As I said, just a thought.
I don't know the full details but think it was with Juninho and it was an inherited situation, perhaps Boro had been using an EBT on advice of an agent? As above as soon as Celtic knew it was dodgy they stopped itQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Interestingly some Celtic fans are saying they would be happy to be stripped of their title that year.
The SFA arent involved just now, if rangers reform into a newco and the SPL allow them back into the SPL, then the SPl announce their findings I am not sure if they can then do anything legally to punish the newco.Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyMiller
Totally agree but if I was of a mind to try to ensure that Rangers remained in the SPL the argument would be that they did it. Dosent matter how long or how many.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe breezy
Of course this is nonsense and Celtic's EBT dosent even register when compared to others but, as I said, if you are trying to assist Rangers I can see how someone (Doncaster) might argue this point.
Incidentally ragerstaxcase.com won the 2012 Orwell Blog prize so a big well done to those guys for refusing to be silenced.
Trouble with the Yams tax scam is the side letters were all in Lithuanian and coded by the Enigma Fax Machine. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
However, I still think Skacel court case with his agent, due to return to Court next month will prove the player was getting a lot more cash for playing for Hearts than the amount recorded in is Hearts Contract.
His Contract, according to press reports was for 190,000 Euros per year, thats about £ 3000 per week. I don't think he came back for that considering what others were on at the PBS.
Celtic should also have every game the hidden EBT was used chalked off as 3-0 defeats as well. So in 2006, Aberdeen won the league and we finished second :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Use of EBT's isn't illegal, not declaring it / using hidden contracts is as far as the SFA / SPL are concerned, that's the issue.
Besides everything else, the programme claimed to have evidence connecting this whole thing directly to the team that was put on the pitch via EBT payments to players as salary top ups.
Ergo players who were otherwise unaffordable became affordable
Better players who brought more success
CHEATING
If this is proven, they're goners.
That's a good point as it shows that another club went down this path, but on reflection (and presumably more competent financial advice than the Huns recieved) realised the error of their ways. The Yams case as always with them is difficult to comment on, simply as not enough of their finacial information is readible acessible. I have to say that as icreasing light is shed upon the goings on at Castle Greyskull, one can't avoid the impression that the finaacial advice they recieved was analagous to that proffered by someone after they've spent a lengthy period imbibibng alcohol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Hearts have been very farsighted in all this. It's now apparent that the reason that they didn't bother going for the CL title that year they were in it (because they would surely have won it, if they'd wanted to) was that they knew they'd eventually be stripped of it when their EBTs came to light. Previously I'd thought that the yams were living from one dodgy short-term fix to the next with players' wages and that, but here they've shown real vision. :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by joe breezy
An EBT itself is not illegal, however using one to provide pre-agreed payments as part of an employment (supplementing wages basically) is tax evasion and this is why the taxman is after them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
The hidden contracts given to players make this illegal from a tax point of view and also against the rules of the sfa/spl.
I have a copy of the rules (I can email it to you if you want) and there are no rules 11, 13 or 14 - the rule are annotated by letter/number/sub-number like A1.1 and the sections that go up to number 11 and above don't bear much relationship to this issue. I think he must be referring to the Articles of Association which I don't have - I'll see if I can get a copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
From what I can see of the rules though, there is absolutely no provision for a newco, but there are a number of rules that could be read as specifically prohibiting one from joining the SPL.
If you or anyone else has any further dealings with Doncaster it might be worth asking him to forward copies of any documents he quotes.
Ah, the big cup they are always going on about. Only right for a giant like Hearts.Quote:
Originally Posted by reallapsedhibee
We are the people?Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
There's a few alright ones but not many..
Following the statement from the Killie chairman, Michael Johnston, who thinks that Rangers have been punished enough and no more sanctions should be taken against them, I think that supporters of all other clubs who oppose this view should boycott all matches at Rugby Park, and any other clubs that take Johnston's and Rangers side. If Johnston thinks that Rangers are key to his clubs existence, they may lose out on TV money and one or two visits of the current buns per season, but how much more would they lose if they played all season with no visiting supporters.
Tell me if you think this idea is rubbish or if you think that it might be a goer?
Big thank you to you for posting the links - some amazing "revelations" in there :top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
SPL Rules Effective 14th May 2012Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...MAY%202012.pdf
SFA Articles of Association
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resource...09Articles.pdf
12.1 The Board may arrange for an inspection of all such books, records and details for
any purpose, including but not limited to, National Club Licensing. Such inspection
may be conducted by the Board, such authorised employees of the Association, the
Association’s auditors or other professional advisers duly appointed by the Board
on giving to any club or recognised football body reasonable notice of its intention
to do so.
Furthermore, all payments, whether made by the club or otherwise, which are to
be made to a player solely relating to his playing activities must be fully recorded
within the relevant written agreement with the player prior to submission to this
Association and/or the recognised football body of which his club is in membership.