SNP are lying b******s as well !

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10-08-2023, 01:06 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

No and no.

Scotland was and could be a country but currently isn't. I don't think anyone would think we're in a voluntary union? Even those who were hoodwinked by your side in the past.

So we agree on the country issue. It's a shame you see the people of Scotland as fundamentally stupid. It's not a view I share, whichever way they voted in the referendum.
10-08-2023, 01:06 PM
TrumpIsAPeado

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

Nice of you to join. My view is that we live in the UK. There is lots of objective evidence for this.

The SNP previously recognised this and worked to get a majority in the Scottish Parliament which led to them being able to negotiate a deal to have a referendum in leaving the UK. This deal was seen worldwide as an exemplar. It was all set out in Scotland's Future. As part of that there was lots of reference to rUK. This clearly suggests that the SNP led Government saw Scotland leaving the UK. So it seems I'm on the same page as the SNP was in the run up to the referendum. The rhetorical framings that we see here are just obfuscatory noise.

You were trying to equate Scotland to Bavaria, Alsace and Iowa. Where are their parliaments located and what is their capital cities?
10-08-2023, 01:08 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

So we agree on the country issue. It's a shame you see the people of Scotland as fundamentally stupid. It's not a view I share, whichever way they voted in the referendum.

The people of Scotland are no more nor less stupid than people anywhere else. Lying for political gain, and a certain amount of people being taken in by it, is a sad fact all over.
10-08-2023, 01:09 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

You were trying to equate Scotland to Bavaria, Alsace and Iowa. Where are their parliaments located and what is their capital cities?

Baviaria - Munich and Berlin

Alsace - Strasbourg and Paris

Iowa -Des Moines and Washington DC.
10-08-2023, 01:10 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

The people of Scotland are no more nor less stupid than people anywhere else. Lying for political gain, and a certain amount of people being taken in by it, is a sad fact all over.

Sure is.
10-08-2023, 01:13 PM
TrumpIsAPeado

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

Baviaria - Munich and Berlin

Alsace - Strasbourg and Paris

Iowa -Des Moines and Washington DC.

So they don't have their own parliaments and capitals. But are instead part of larger countries with their own parliaments and capitals? Which would make sense for states.

Scotland however has it's own parliament and it's own capital city. How could that possibly be if Scotland is just a state?
10-08-2023, 01:16 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

So they don't have their own parliaments and capitals. But are instead part of larger countries with their own parliaments and capitals? Which would make sense for states.

Scotland however has it's own parliament and it's own capital city. How could that possibly be if Scotland is just a state?

Bavaria has a parliament as part of the German Federation, which sits in Munich. Alsace doesn't exist in a political sense, so that's baws. Scotland isn't even "just a state". It's a region of a unitary state with an asymmetric extra tier of local government.
10-08-2023, 01:17 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

So they don't have their own parliaments and capitals. But are instead part of larger countries with their own parliaments and capitals? Which would make sense for states.

Scotland however has it's own parliament and it's own capital city. How could that possibly be if Scotland is just a state?

Bavaria and Iowa do have their own parliaments and capitals.
10-08-2023, 01:19 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

So they don't have their own parliaments and capitals. But are instead part of larger countries with their own parliaments and capitals? Which would make sense for states.

Scotland however has it's own parliament and it's own capital city. How could that possibly be if Scotland is just a state?

I'm sorry - I have difficulty following your point. The point is that none of these areas has a right to seceed.
10-08-2023, 01:20 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Bavaria has a parliament as part of the German Federation, which sits in Munich. Alsace doesn't exist in a political sense, so that's baws. Scotland isn't even "just a state". It's a region of a unitary state with an asymmetric extra tier of local government.

OK - but the fundamental point is that they don't have a right to seceed.
10-08-2023, 01:20 PM
grunt

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

My view is that we live in the UK.

I'm not interested in who said what and whether the SNP talked about rUK. Of course using the term rUK doesn't stop Scotland being a country.

My interest was in what you would say to someone who asked you, for example if you were on holiday overseas, what country you lived in. And you'd say you live in the UK. Interesting.
10-08-2023, 01:24 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt

I'm not interested in who said what and whether the SNP talked about rUK. Of course using the term rUK doesn't stop Scotland being a country.

My interest was in what you would say to someone who asked you, for example if you were on holiday overseas, what country you lived in. And you'd say you live in the UK. Interesting.

That's not the question you asked. It would depend - Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. I think you are using a loose definition of country. I think that's OK for general chat, but I'm sure you will agree that, in important matters like the constitution, it's vital to be accurate.
10-08-2023, 01:39 PM
He's here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt

How do you know they're content? Have you asked them? Course not, that's not allowed.

We'd have become independent had a majority been discontented to be part of the UK. Since 2014 there's been next to nothing poll-wise to indicate a change in that respect.
10-08-2023, 01:43 PM
TrumpIsAPeado

Quote:

Originally Posted by He's here!

We'd have become independent had a majority been discontented to be part of the UK. Since 2014 there's been next to nothing poll-wise to indicate a change in that respect.

Uncertainty over independence doesn't automatically equate to being content as part of the UK.
10-08-2023, 01:45 PM
He's here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

some people just despise the thought of an independent Scotland eh

they'd rather the name Scotland didn't exist

the Britnats are here to set us straight

Nobody on here would rather that as far as I can see.

And I doubt anyone on here would define themselves as a 'britnat'. Another disparaging moniker for anyone who doesn't think independence is a good idea.

You can be proud to be Scottish but perfectly happy to be British too.
10-08-2023, 01:50 PM
TrumpIsAPeado

Quote:

Originally Posted by He's here!

You can be proud to be Scottish but perfectly happy to be British too.

But not European. That's a step too far.
10-08-2023, 01:57 PM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

The people of Scotland are no more nor less stupid than people anywhere else. Lying for political gain, and a certain amount of people being taken in by it, is a sad fact all over.

Aren’t we the most educated country in Europe? So we have something about us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
10-08-2023, 02:07 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Aren’t we the most educated country in Europe? So we have something about us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed. That might explain the choices we make?
10-08-2023, 02:07 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

But not European. That's a step too far.

Why?
10-08-2023, 02:08 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Aren’t we the most educated country in Europe? So we have something about us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We live in a society that has historically venerated education, but our raw ingredients are no more nor less intelligent.
10-08-2023, 02:08 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Aren’t we the most educated country in Europe? So we have something about us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which country? I can't keep up.
10-08-2023, 02:10 PM
TrumpIsAPeado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Aren’t we the most educated country in Europe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

Indeed.

So you agree that Scotland is a country?
10-08-2023, 02:10 PM
JeMeSouviens

Quote:

Originally Posted by archie

Indeed. That might explain the choices we make?

"Our"* country keeps choosing the ****** Tories!

* we agreed on that, right? :wink:
10-08-2023, 02:11 PM
McD

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

But not European. That's a step too far.

how do you square that with the snp voters who voted to leave the EU?

also, I’m sure many would be happy to say Scottish, British, European, or maybe they just aren’t bothered about labelling themselves and want to get on with their lives
10-08-2023, 02:12 PM
He's here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Aren’t we the most educated country in Europe? So we have something about us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apart from the idiots?
10-08-2023, 02:13 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

So you agree that Scotland is a country?

You've got me - the house of cards has collapsed around me. Scotland stands ready to take its place in the UN, the G7 etc. etc.

Or in the real world it's a prime example of conversational usage that you are using to try and make an entirely unsubstantiated point about Scotland's constitutional status.
10-08-2023, 02:14 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

"Our"* country keeps choosing the ****** Tories!

* we agreed on that, right? :wink:

Well we live in a democratic society. I don't like how recent elections have turned out, but there you go.
10-08-2023, 02:14 PM
TrumpIsAPeado

Quote:

Originally Posted by McD

how do you square that with the snp voters who voted to leave the EU?

also, I’m sure many would be happy to say Scottish, British, European, or maybe they just aren’t bothered about labelling themselves and want to get on with their lives

I square it with the majority who voted to remain in the EU, along with the majority of the Scottish electorate. Getting on with our lives would be great. Political decisions can have a major impact on how we go about doing that though.
10-08-2023, 02:15 PM
archie

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

I square it with the majority who voted to remain in the EU, along with the majority of the Scottish electorate. Getting on with our lives would be great. Political decisions can have a major impact on how we go about doing that though.

So you accept the 2014 referendum?
10-08-2023, 02:17 PM
McD

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

I square it with the majority who voted to remain in the EU, along with the majority of the Scottish electorate. Getting on with our lives would be great. Political decisions can have a major impact on how we go about doing that though.

So yes voter votes out of Europe, all good

No voter votes or of Europe, bad

got You :aok:

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