Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by poolman

How about,

Dear Sirs,

Liquidate the barstewards

Yours

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Far too polite. We need to get over the strength of feeling on this. Apart from that quite good.

I think you're missing the main point, a Rangers newco is not Rangers, it's a new football club. Doncaster and Johnston are flat out lying, there is no such thing as a club entity separate from the company and never has been. Professional football clubs in Scotland are all single corporate entities.

It's not a readmission, it's a new admission.

Newcos have not been commonly allowed in UK football as a way of exiting administration. This is also a blatant lie. The only possible precedent is Leeds United who had an agreed CVA that was challenged by HMRC due to murky circumstances.

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Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

I'm waiting on a model simulation to finish running on my laptop, so can't get on with work quite yet, so here's my drafted effort :greengrin

Dear sirs,

We, the undersigned, submit this petition to the Scottish Footballing Authorities in regard to the potential readmission of a NewCo Rangers FC into the SPL, with representative viewpoints from across the broad base of supporters of the 41 clubs in the professional Scottish setup.

The discussion of the fate of Rangers Football Club has been extensive since the club were placed into administration on February 14th, 2012. Now, as we move into this closed season period with the future of the club still in substantial doubt, we feel that the time has come to make our collective voices heard without prejudice or bias, to provide you, the decision makers, with the mindset of the wider community of Scottish Football fans.

In recent weeks, particularly since the takeover of Rangers by Charles Green, much of the discussion has started to focus on the likely fate of any NewCo Rangers and what impact such consequences could have on Scottish Football as a whole. We have been subjected to opinions from players, managers, owners, chairmen, media personalities and even politicians about how strong or weak Scottish Football would be without Glasgow Rangers. We have been informed that any TV deal would be null and void without Sky having the Old Firm games and we have been told that many sponsors would withdraw from the league should Rangers not remain within the SPL.

More recently, we have started to hear from many of you gentlemen within the halls of Hampden, indicating further that we need a strong Rangers. Mr Neil Doncaster has also recently indicated that any such NewCo may be allowed direct entry back into the SPL with no sanctions likely to be imposed, stating that "NewCos have been allowed within UK football for many years". Whilst the above is indeed true, we believe that no precedent has been set for allowing any club who exits a league structure via insolvency to enter back into the setup at the top level. Consider please for one moment if Rangers had been nearer the foot of the table upon entering administration and had been relegated to the SFL Division one based on points. Unlikely as this scenario seems, if it occurs in light of a young NewCo Rangers team playing in the SPL (owing to the imposed transfer embargo forcing the introduction of inexperienced youth players) after readmission, would the SPL take strides to ensure they were saved from relegation, "for the good of Scottish Football"? Such an action threatens to open a very large can of worms indeed.

To reintroduce any NewCo Rangers into the top level of the SPL would completely void any integrity in Scottish football and this sirs is worth much more than television deals, sponsorship and appeasing potential investors. Many supporters have considered the potentiality of a NewCo Rangers being readmitted to the league setup without sanctions being imposed and the widely held consensus is that if such an occurrence comes to pass regular attendance at games in Scotland would drop at an exponential level. In no other league setup worldwide has a football club ever gone into liquidation and been allowed to continue in the top division as a new company and having the SPL become the first would add further negative press to our already negatively perceived league.

We wish to be assured that we exist on a level playing field, where the rules are not established to preserve the existence of the few and that sporting integrity is something other than a media-derived buzzword which has been circulating since this saga began to unfold 4 months ago. We wish to see any NewCo Rangers being forced to reapply to the Scottish Football League at the lowest level (like any new entry before them) and working their way back up. We ask this in the interests of Scottish Football.

Yours,

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We, the undersigned, reject the possibility that any new football club be directly admitted to the top tier of Scottish football, whether or not that new club has purchased any of the assets of a former member club.

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Originally Posted by ballengeich

I've thought also about proposed boycotts. My own decision is that I would not stop going to ER if I was certain that Hibs had voted in favour of sporting integrity. I shall not go to away games at the grounds of clubs who did not vote that way. I don't think I'll ever set foot in Rugby Park again.

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This.


What I don't get is how those Charimen etc the teams that are supportive of the Huns coming back as a Newco can't see the bigger picture?..... My mate's a Killie fan and he's already said he's finished with them and surely loosing a season of away supporters coming to your ground CAN'T be made up for by a few Huns visits over the season???? :fuming:

The killer counter argument to Johnston's pish:

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"But there are legal differences and what people have to bear in mind is that a football club has always been viewed by the football authorities as being something separate from who owns the football club.

"So the club consists of its history and traditions, its stadium, its players, but most importantly its supporters.

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Airdrie United play in the same stadium and colours as Airdrieonians did and in front of the same supporters. Why do the football authorities not regard them as the same club?

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Originally Posted by The Story So Far...

I'm waiting on a model simulation to finish running on my laptop, so can't get on with work quite yet, so here's my drafted effort :greengrin

Dear sirs,

We, the undersigned, submit this petition to the Scottish Footballing Authorities in regard to the potential readmission of a NewCo Rangers FC into the SPL, with representative viewpoints from across the broad base of supporters of the 41 clubs in the professional Scottish setup.

The discussion of the fate of Rangers Football Club has been extensive since the club were placed into administration on February 14th, 2012. Now, as we move into this closed season period with the future of the club still in substantial doubt, we feel that the time has come to make our collective voices heard without prejudice or bias, to provide you, the decision makers, with the mindset of the wider community of Scottish Football fans.

In recent weeks, particularly since the takeover of Rangers by Charles Green, much of the discussion has started to focus on the likely fate of any NewCo Rangers and what impact such consequences could have on Scottish Football as a whole. We have been subjected to opinions from players, managers, owners, chairmen, media personalities and even politicians about how strong or weak Scottish Football would be without Glasgow Rangers. We have been informed that any TV deal would be null and void without Sky having the Old Firm games and we have been told that many sponsors would withdraw from the league should Rangers not remain within the SPL.

More recently, we have started to hear from many of you gentlemen within the halls of Hampden, indicating further that we need a strong Rangers. Mr Neil Doncaster has also recently indicated that any such NewCo may be allowed direct entry back into the SPL with no sanctions likely to be imposed, stating that "NewCos have been allowed within UK football for many years". Whilst the above is indeed true, we believe that no precedent has been set for allowing any club who exits a league structure via insolvency to enter back into the setup at the top level. Consider please for one moment if Rangers had been nearer the foot of the table upon entering administration and had been relegated to the SFL Division one based on points. Unlikely as this scenario seems, if it occurs in light of a young NewCo Rangers team playing in the SPL (owing to the imposed transfer embargo forcing the introduction of inexperienced youth players) after readmission, would the SPL take strides to ensure they were saved from relegation, "for the good of Scottish Football"? Such an action threatens to open a very large can of worms indeed.

To reintroduce any NewCo Rangers into the top level of the SPL would completely void any integrity in Scottish football and this sirs is worth much more than television deals, sponsorship and appeasing potential investors. Many supporters have considered the potentiality of a NewCo Rangers being readmitted to the league setup without sanctions being imposed and the widely held consensus is that if such an occurrence comes to pass regular attendance at games in Scotland would drop at an exponential level. In no other league setup worldwide has a football club ever gone into liquidation and been allowed to continue in the top division as a new company and having the SPL become the first would add further negative press to our already negatively perceived league.

We wish to be assured that we exist on a level playing field, where the rules are not established to preserve the existence of the few and that sporting integrity is something other than a media-derived buzzword which has been circulating since this saga began to unfold 4 months ago. We wish to see any NewCo Rangers being forced to reapply to the Scottish Football League at the lowest level (like any new entry before them) and working their way back up. We ask this in the interests of Scottish Football.

Yours,

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You could add This is your copy, UEFA should receive theirs in the post tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

The killer counter argument to Johnston's pish:




Airdrie United play in the same stadium and colours as Airdrieonians did and in front of the same supporters. Why do the football authorities not regard them as the same club?

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Because they don't enough moronic bigot fans to make a difference to anyones balance sheet...

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

We need the SPL and SFA to understand the consequences if they allow Newco Rangers back into the top league etc.

Not one with the usual emotive, partisan sentiments, but an accurate and politically weighty statement that can gather support across Scotland and influence the decision makers.

Now, we've got loads of intelligent members on hibs.net so who'll take this on?

It needs to be done quickly though.

Admins: Please allow this to run as a separate thread for a while. If it's merged with the big thread, it will be lost and won't happen and I really do believe we need it.

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

Too long. :wink:

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Dear Mr Doncaster

I have been following your media releases concerning the Rangers (IA) debacle over the past few months with interest.

Your seeming intent to keep Rangers (IA) in the SPL contrary to all sporting and financial fair play will destroy professional football in the country.

Gonna no dae that?

Yours sincerely

:saltireflag

Scotland

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Originally Posted by The Wee Hibby

Maybe if we could get an email for Neil Doncaster, we could send him emails telling him where to shove his "CVA and Newco are the same" idea.

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[email protected]

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Originally Posted by Sir Alf R

This.


What I don't get is how those Charimen etc the teams that are supportive of the Huns coming back as a Newco can't see the bigger picture?..... My mate's a Killie fan and he's already said he's finished with them and surely loosing a season of away supporters coming to your ground CAN'T be made up for by a few Huns visits over the season???? :fuming:

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The effectiveness of a boycott would depend on the numbers willing to be consistently involved and the solidarity to sustain it. Knowing human nature that is not a foregone conclusion.

Get the popcorn ready ...

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Mark Daly ‏@markdaly2

Dual contracts? Find out tonight which Rangers players had side letters promising undeclared funds through EBT http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0k6k #bbcsi

Mark Daly ‏@markdaly2

Biggest EBT beneficiaries named, did Whyte really "dupe" Sir David and questions over the administrators. Tonight at 8 http://tinyurl.com/6nerotr

Mark Daly Mark Daly ‏@markdaly2

Tax scheme, takeover, administration. The truth behind the headlines - Rangers: The Men Who Sold the Jerseys. Tomorrow at 8pm on BBC1

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Get the popcorn ready ...

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Originally Posted by Mark Daly

Mark Daly ‏@markdaly2

Dual contracts? Find out tonight which Rangers players had side letters promising undeclared funds through EBT

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0k6k

#bbcsi

Mark Daly ‏@markdaly2

Biggest EBT beneficiaries named, did Whyte really "dupe" Sir David and questions over the administrators. Tonight at 8

http://tinyurl.com/6nerotr

Mark Daly ‏@markdaly2

Tax scheme, takeover, administration. The truth behind the headlines - Rangers: The Men Who Sold the Jerseys. Tomorrow at 8pm on BBC1

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Hopefully Mr. Doncaster has his telly tuned to this tonight, if the Beeb can find damning evidence of dual contracts and EBTs, then how in his right mind can he justify letting a new Rangers back in to the SPL when they have quite clearly cheated? Tonight will hopefully be yet another nail in the coffin of that vile and loathsome club.

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Originally Posted by The Wee Hibby

Hopefully Mr. Doncaster has his telly tuned to this tonight, if the Beeb can find damning evidence of dual contracts, then how in his right mind can he justify letting a new Rangers back in to the SPL when they have quite clearly cheated? Tonight will hopefully be the final nail in the coffin of that vile and loathsome club.

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Wouldn't hold your breath. Many programme's like this have been eagerly anticipated in the past only to be a damp squib when aired. I am sure Mr Murray and the football authorities will have staements already prepared to refute any allegations in tomorrow's press.

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Originally Posted by Benny Brazil

[email protected]

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Just sent


Dear Mr Doncaster,

It is with great concern that I have read your recent comments regarding allowing Rangers newco straight back into the SPL.

As a small businessmen that has spent a great deal of my companies money on advertising at a Scottish football ground I am appalled that you would feel it appropriate to back a company running up huge debts with local businesses and then being able to effectively walk away from those debts.

This shows a momentous arrogance towards business, how you can think that businesses will continue to support Scottish football when you allow your clubs to treat business in such a manner is beyond me.

You threaten the ability of clubs to borrow and to gain advertising revenue by going down this path. I sincerely hope you will take these comments seriously, sporting integrity and business integrity are vital to Scottish football, I for one will not sit idly by if you choose to ride roughshod over these founding principles of Scottish football.

There is a growing movement of fans and businesses beginning to discuss what action will be taken against the SFA, SPL and a rangers newco if this is to happen, it will most certainly outweigh any lost revenue if rangers where to drop out of the SPL. I would urge you to put the needs of scottish football long term ahead of a perceived short term gain by bowing to Rangers newco.

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Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith

Just sent


Dear Mr Doncaster,

It is with great concern that I have read your recent comments regarding allowing Rangers newco straight back into the SPL.

As a small businessmen that has spent a great deal of my companies money on advertising at a Scottish football ground I am appalled that you would feel it appropriate to back a company running up huge debts with local businesses and then being able to effectively walk away from those debts.

This shows a momentous arrogance towards business, how you can think that businesses will continue to support Scottish football when you allow your clubs to treat business in such a manner is beyond me.

You threaten the ability of clubs to borrow and to gain advertising revenue by going down this path. I sincerely hope you will take these comments seriously, sporting integrity and business integrity are vital to Scottish football, I for one will not sit idly by if you choose to ride roughshod over these founding principles of Scottish football.

There is a growing movement of fans and businesses beginning to discuss what action will be taken against the SFA, SPL and a rangers newco if this is to happen, it will most certainly outweigh any lost revenue if rangers where to drop out of the SPL. I would urge you to put the needs of scottish football long term ahead of a perceived short term gain by bowing to Rangers newco.

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Very well said .... :top marks

@STVRaman: SPL statement over ''investigation into the EBT payments made by Rangers''.Still waiting for info

This was tweeted a couple of hours ago. I guess nothing was released?

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Wouldn't hold your breath. Many programme's like this have been eagerly anticipated in the past only to be a damp squib when aired. I am sure Mr Murray and the football authorities will have staements already prepared to refute any allegations in tomorrow's press.

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The last BBC investigation into Rangers revealed the fact that Whyte had been disqualified from running companies. That in turn led to the SFA investigation (as Rangers hadn't disclosed this to them) which resulted in the transfer embargo they've been bumping their gums about for the last month.

Yes, short statement released - to paraphrase 'it's not our fault the EBT & dual contracts investigation has over-run. Speak to Duff and Duffer'

According to the bbc they have evidence that 53 players and staff benefited from EBTs and that Ferguson and Klos got about £2.5M each out of them, roll on 8pm and the full show

Tony McKelvie on Twitter saying a huge conflict of interest has been uncovered. Apparently, D&P people involved in Ticketus deal.

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Originally Posted by moff1875

Tony McKelvie on Twitter saying a huge conflict of interest has been uncovered. Apparently, D&P people involved in Ticketus deal.

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Surprise ,surprise.

This is the end for the huns.

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

According to the bbc they have evidence that 53 players and staff benefited from EBTs and that Ferguson and Klos got about £2.5M each out of them, roll on 8pm and the full show

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Hope we can now expect media revision of SDM and the previous board after the snippet on the news. I see Johnston, previous chairman getting his 'defence' in early accusing SDM of dictatorship - as a director along with Bain and others, what about corporate responsibility. I have a feeling this will further strengthen other clubs determination(Kilmarnock excepted) to go for the jugular next week and knock Doncaster for six as a side show. I think too this is going to rebound on Green also and now I am convinced liquidation is the only course of action. Alleged criminality becoming more apparent by the day.

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Originally Posted by Sir Alf R

Very well said .... :top marks

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I'm quite astounded, I got a phone call back from Mr Doncaster, about ten minutes after I emailed it. Short on time just now but will post the jist of what he said later

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Originally Posted by ****pile

Surprise ,surprise.

This is the end for the huns.

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Don't be silly. We have seen a clear and sustained campaign from the powers that be. No matter how much we all want it to happen a huge amount of this is going to be swept under the carpet and i am willing to bet in a years time RFC (or whatever they are called then) will still be in 2nd place in the league.

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Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith

I'm quite astounded, I got a phone call back from Mr Doncaster, about ten minutes after I emailed it. Short on time just now but will post the jist of what he said later

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Looking forward to hearing about this call more than the programme at 8pm tonight :greengrin

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Originally Posted by moff1875

Tony McKelvie on Twitter saying a huge conflict of interest has been uncovered. Apparently, D&P people involved in Ticketus deal.

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That has not really been uncovered though, it is common knowledge that D&P were involved in Whyte's takeover so they will of course known where the funds were coming from? Unless wait, they might of been duped?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/

BBC page is breaking the stories now.

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Originally Posted by Benny Brazil

Looking forward to hearing about this call more than the programme at 8pm tonight :greengrin

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not that exciting I'm afraid.

Basically he was saying that the SPL can only enforce the rules as they exist. He clearly believes, or at least says he does, that there is no rule to stop a newco from taking rangers place in the league. I haven't checked yet but he reckoned SPL rules 11 & 13 means they can do a newco and get straight back in and that 14 which is the ones the club vote on would not come into play in this scenario.

I basically said that as a business I would not be happy at the SPL condoning one of there clubs running up debts with small businesses and then walking away from those debts. For that reason I was reconsidering my support to scottish football (which is fairly minimal but none the less). he gave the right noises about understanding but said again that they can only enforce the rules as they currently stand. I didn't have a copy of the rules so just said that I sincerely hoped they would be and that a lot of people would be watching to make sure they where.

He mentioned english clubs doing newcos a lot and I just said thats England, this is Scotland and i don't no of any newco examples in Scotland which sets a precedent. he didn't either.

hats off to him for phoning me, and he was at least prepared to give his position and point of view, however I'm not sure he yet gets what is about to happen.

Wish I had been better prepared but TBH never expected an email reply never mind a phone call so quickly.

BBC1. Rangers-Men Who Sold the jerseys. 8 o'clock tonight. :aok:

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Originally Posted by stokesmessiah

That has not really been uncovered though, it is common knowledge that D&P were involved in Whyte's takeover so they will of course known where the funds were coming from? Unless wait, they might of been duped?

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Sounds like it relates more to the timing - senior partner of D&P said he knew nothing of the deal at a time in which it is apparent he did.