Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by desantos0773

Full steam ahead after tomorrow if no appeal from UBIG which is unlikely as they have no directors and any significant office bearers gone to ground to avoid prosecution. Maybe things will come to head this week. No new meaningful money or proof of funds from the two joke bids. Would people prefer liquidation proceedings to start before it after next Sunday's derby?

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Would prefer it to come anytime before the derby,morale must be at a low,that would be the icing on the top,did anyone mention cake sales

This was predicted by alot of folks.
They'd be kept in the top league till the league starts,then liquidate.
After which we'll get the SPFL all the media and all the former players and anyone else giving a big push
to keep newyam in the league.
Trying to brush it off as if it's the thing that should be done.
Like all Therangers crap last year.

This is the only avenue for them to escape punishment
and they will go for it.
i guess they're getting ready for this now.
Sure alot of you will say "they can't do that" "they must start at the bottom"

Well i will believe it when i see it.
Establishment club?
Lets see how rotten Scottish football is.
I so hope i'm wrong.

But they've cheated for years.
Influential people have helped them cheat and are helping them now.

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Originally Posted by Waxy

This was predicted by alot of folks.
They'd be kept in the top league till the league starts,then liquidate.
After which we'll get the SPFL all the media and all the former players and anyone else giving a big push
to keep newyam in the league.
Trying to brush it off as if it's the thing that should be done.
Like all Therangers crap last year.

This is the only avenue for them to escape punishment
and they will go for it.
i guess they're getting ready for this now.
Sure alot of you will say "they can't do that" "they must start at the bottom"

Well i will believe it when i see it.
Establishment club?
Lets see how rotten Scottish football is.
I so hope i'm wrong.

But they've cheated for years.
Influential people have helped them cheat and are helping them now.

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I can't see this happening as there is one league body now. This would be put to a vote and it won't just be the SPL voting, it'll be all 4 leagues. I can't see it getting the required votes.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

There's nothing in the rules that states you can't line up an administrator in advance nor is there one that says you can't lie to the press about being self sufficient. Again, it's important to remember that the SPFL is the clubs not some mythical unbiased group who will rule with an iron fist.

The simple fact is Hearts didn't go into admin before the end of last season and UBIG's situation was significantly vague enough to warrant caution. The SPFL can't act on ifs ands buts or maybes.

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Maybe I wasn't sufficiently clear but you're answering a comment which I didn't make. I never said SPFL could act on ifs or maybe's, in fact I agreed with your comments that in season 2012/13 they ( SPFL ) could not legally take action. Where I took issue was your comment that the only difference with Yams being relegated was we could laugh at them & I pointed out that relegation would have been catastrophic for Yams. ( hence why they claimed a dead parrot was in fact still alive! )
My later comments were to point out that under their rules there are a variety of options open to SPFL for further punishment including termination of membership. At present some wages from last season remain unpaid & of course there is the small matter of £1.9mm due to HMRC. Those monies will never be paid, therefore unless a newco is formed Yams will continue to be in breach of the rules. Of course it makes no sense to act while situation is unresolved ( ie in Admin ) but nor should these transgressions be forgiven & forgotten.

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Originally Posted by desantos0773

Liquidation after a short admin still on cards. What's a week or two out in this saga. Or just take the SPfL approach and just wait until it hits you in the face like a mouldy old fish. BDO need to look as if they have tried every avenue plus they can milk a bit extra in the fees. It won't be long now.

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I can't see BDO liquidating in the next 2 weeks. They have enough money to wait this out and every time they've asked the 2 remaining bidders to increase their bids they have, so the situation is improving on that front. They'll do their absolute best to draw this out for as long as possible which is why Trevor and Brian re-iterate almost every time they're interviewed that this process will not be quick.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

I can't see BDO liquidating in the next 2 weeks. They have enough money to wait this out and every time they've asked the 2 remaining bidders to increase their bids they have, so the situation is improving on that front. They'll do their absolute best to draw this out for as long as possible which is why Trevor and Brian re-iterate almost every time they're interviewed that this process will not be quick.

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When BDO ask them to increase the size of their bid, it seems to string things out by days or weeks. However, doing so increases BDOs potential fees.

I'd be interested to know if the increase in the bids are so paltry that they are merely swallowed up by extra fees or if they really would be more beneficial to the Creditors.

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

When BDO ask them to increase the size of their bid, it seems to string things out by days or weeks. However, doing so increases BDOs potential fees.

I'd be interested to know if the increase in the bids are so paltry that they are merely swallowed up by extra fees or if they really would be more beneficial to the Creditors.

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Creditor singular now.

In other words, it's a call that UKIO probably have to make. It's them that would lose out by any additional fees.

I don't think its quite right to suggest BDO will be stringing it out to bloat their fees. I'm sure if it was suspected by the Lts, then they'd be given a rocket or the bullet, As our resident experts have continually said this administration is going quite quickly.

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

Others have made it clear that the SPFL were not in a position to do anything because they might have faced a legal challenge.

So I have a question for you, Desantos.

I've been following this thread from the start, and the most knowledgeable folks have been Caversham Green, Cropleywasgod and Sergey. You appeared late in the day with, what appeared to be new knowledge at around the time UBIG or Ukio Bankas were going into administration (I can't remember which) however, and it is just my opinion, since then you have not contributed anything new. Mostly regurgitating the same things worded differently, so, can you clear up for me, and anybody else with similar thoughts, where do you get you information and what contacts and qualification you have to give your opinions?

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i have been predicting the demise of the Ukio empire for some time. Not on here from the start but around the time Ukio got in trouble.

i am financial a analyst of 25 years standing and appeared in documentaries, written books and research and been on the radio. I was head of research and strategy at an investment bank. My information comes from the markets and my contacts in the markets and central banks. I know the Bloomberg journalist who covers Lithuania. My analysis comes from weighing up all the Information and putting a value on all the options and comparing it to simar deals.


ok we'd all like liquidation to happen now and we might get over zealous but it is the most likely option for all the reasons I have said on several posts. Freezeing of Romanov's assets might be a block to emerging from admin but not from liquidation where there is no share transfer. We all know the bids are far short upfront of Tynie's land value and can't see any of them making up the millions gap ever. Liths admin know that. Their response to the last offers was not poker but preparing the ground for the liquidation process. They are not going to hang around running up BDOs fees when they know that the game is up.

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

Others have made it clear that the SPFL were not in a position to do anything because they might have faced a legal challenge.

So I have a question for you, Desantos.

I've been following this thread from the start, and the most knowledgeable folks have been Caversham Green, Cropleywasgod and Sergey. You appeared late in the day with, what appeared to be new knowledge at around the time UBIG or Ukio Bankas were going into administration (I can't remember which) however, and it is just my opinion, since then you have not contributed anything new. Mostly regurgitating the same things worded differently, so, can you clear up for me, and anybody else with similar thoughts, where do you get you information and what contacts and qualification you have to give your opinions?

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Aye, do you have any references? :wink:
Me, I'm going to shut up - I have no qualifications at all with which to back up my opinions :na na:

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

When BDO ask them to increase the size of their bid, it seems to string things out by days or weeks. However, doing so increases BDOs potential fees.

I'd be interested to know if the increase in the bids are so paltry that they are merely swallowed up by extra fees or if they really would be more beneficial to the Creditors.

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Not up to BDO but the creditor.

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Originally Posted by BarneyK

Aye, do you have any references? :wink:
Me, I'm going to shut up - I have no qualifications at all with which to back up my opinions :na na:

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See above!

To Desantos. Thanks. I hope you took my question in the right way. It just seems that there are many Experts on here.

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

To Desantos. Thanks. I hope you took my question in the right way. It just seems that there are many Experts on here.

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EVen though there are so called 'experts' on here doesn't mean they will all agree and reach the same conclusions or indeed be correct in their assertions.

Knowledge is a dangerous thing.:greengrin

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Originally Posted by brog

Maybe I wasn't sufficiently clear but you're answering a comment which I didn't make. I never said SPFL could act on ifs or maybe's, in fact I agreed with your comments that in season 2012/13 they ( SPFL ) could not legally take action. Where I took issue was your comment that the only difference with Yams being relegated was we could laugh at them & I pointed out that relegation would have been catastrophic for Yams. ( hence why they claimed a dead parrot was in fact still alive! )
My later comments were to point out that under their rules there are a variety of options open to SPFL for further punishment including termination of membership. At present some wages from last season remain unpaid & of course there is the small matter of £1.9mm due to HMRC. Those monies will never be paid, therefore unless a newco is formed Yams will continue to be in breach of the rules. Of course it makes no sense to act while situation is unresolved ( ie in Admin ) but nor should these transgressions be forgiven & forgotten.

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The point I was making was that Hearts have been now punished (Points deduction and transfer embargo) and there is unlikely to be any further punishments coming. Termination of membership is not one of the punishments available in any of the crimes Hearts have committed. As far as the footballing authorities are concerned, the matter has been dealt with in full.

If a newco is not formed when they exit administration that means one of 2 things has happened, Hearts have been liquidated or have agreed a CVA. In both of those circumstances the debt will cease to exist either because it's been paid in part or because there's not enough money to cover it.

If a newco is set up then it's a new company, there will be no debt.

The exception to the newco/CVA route is footballing debt. That will have to be paid back in full.

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

Others have made it clear that the SPFL were not in a position to do anything because they might have faced a legal challenge.

So I have a question for you, Desantos.

I've been following this thread from the start, and the most knowledgeable folks have been Caversham Green, Cropleywasgod and Sergey. You appeared late in the day with, what appeared to be new knowledge at around the time UBIG or Ukio Bankas were going into administration (I can't remember which) however, and it is just my opinion, since then you have not contributed anything new. Mostly regurgitating the same things worded differently, so, can you clear up for me, and anybody else with similar thoughts, where do you get you information and what contacts and qualification you have to give your opinions?

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Petty witch hunts are bad patter

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Originally Posted by Waxy

This was predicted by alot of folks.
They'd be kept in the top league till the league starts,then liquidate.
After which we'll get the SPFL all the media and all the former players and anyone else giving a big push
to keep newyam in the league.
Trying to brush it off as if it's the thing that should be done.
Like all Therangers crap last year.

This is the only avenue for them to escape punishment
and they will go for it.
i guess they're getting ready for this now.
Sure alot of you will say "they can't do that" "they must start at the bottom"

Well i will believe it when i see it.
Establishment club?
Lets see how rotten Scottish football is.
I so hope i'm wrong.

But they've cheated for years.
Influential people have helped them cheat and are helping them now.

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magic post pal:agree: and Scottish footballs rotten to the marrow .

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

EVen though there are so called 'experts' on here doesn't mean they will all agree and reach the same conclusions or indeed be correct in their assertions.

Knowledge is a dangerous thing.:greengrin

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Yes I agree with Sergey on his analysis of Of Lith political situ but not on long admin. But disagree with CWG on some points but agree with his short admin position. I don't claim to be right but analyse it as I see it. Anyway we may have all started as hobos (apologies to all the experts on here not born hobos) but one thing's for sure hoboeconomists are far superior with the help of all the lay Hibs net followers than Yameconomics. We all want the same thing: the demise of that cheating, bigoted establishment team. And we have had great fun posting and reading about it. I'm not feeing quite as down about today's result now. Happy to wait till after next Sunday so we can stuff them for one last time then the liquidation shutters can come down.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

The point I was making was that Hearts have been now punished (Points deduction and transfer embargo) and there is unlikely to be any further punishments coming. Termination of membership is not one of the punishments available in any of the crimes Hearts have committed. As far as the footballing authorities are concerned, the matter has been dealt with in full.

If a newco is not formed when they exit administration that means one of 2 things has happened, Hearts have been liquidated or have agreed a CVA. In both of those circumstances the debt will cease to exist either because it's been paid in part or because there's not enough money to cover it.

If a newco is set up then it's a new company, there will be no debt.

The exception to the newco/CVA route is footballing debt. That will have to be paid back in full.

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Ok, thanks, I posted a while back that I thought Rule 6.1.11 was a bit of a catch all which allowed termination if a club was in breach of the Rules. I did post also however that I found this part of the rules a very difficult read & will happily accept my interpretation could be wrong.
I'm aware of & agree your thoughts re a newco though your wording suggests a newco & liquidation are not compatible which i don't think you mean or is the case. My point however is Yams may be in Admin for some time, they've been punished for that transgression but I don't think specifically for the non payment of wages & HMRC. I understood, & I'm sure it was posted on here that a further SPFL meeting was to be held to discuss these & other issues. Perhaps it was the recent SFA meeting which seemed to cause some confusion on here. To summarise I think we're in violent agreement!

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Originally Posted by desantos0773

Yes I agree with Sergey on his analysis of Of Lith political situ but not on long admin. But disagree with CWG on some points but agree with his short admin position. I don't claim to be right but analyse it as I see it. Anyway we may have all started as hobos (apologies to all the experts on here not born hobos) but one thing's for sure hoboeconomists are far superior with the help of all the lay Hibs net followers than Yameconomics. We all want the same thing: the demise of that cheating, bigoted establishment team. And we have had great fun posting and reading about it. I'm not feeing quite as down about today's result now. Happy to wait till after next Sunday so we can stuff them for one last time then the liquidation shutters can come down.

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I've given up feeling bad about results. After over 40 years of being a Hibby, I've finally realized there's no point and my feeling bad isn't going to alter our last disastrous result, or prevent the next. From now on I'll just give one of these :rolleyes: and come back to this thread, where I can bask in our undoubted moral superiority over the degenerates

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Originally Posted by Jack Hackett

I've given up feeling bad about results. After over 40 years of being a Hibby, I've finally realized there's no point and my feeling bad isn't going to alter our last disastrous result, or prevent the next. From now on I'll just give one of these :rolleyes: and come back to this thread, where I can bask in our undoubted moral superiority over the degenerates

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45 years of following the Hibs has largely made me feel the same way. But After Malmo it took me a say to come back on here. Feel bad because we deserved Something today but there's always tomorrow's breaking news from Hearts!

Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

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I think he meant, everyday is breaking news with Hearts

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

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Have Hibs been successful in a bid for all their remaining defensive midfielders? :wink::duck:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

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Well we have not heard anything new since Thursday's transfer embargo and Friday's Romanov arrest warrant. In the crazy world of Hearts and Romanov there can be no more than two days without fresh scandals. No UBIG appeal leads to quickening of Hearts admin process !

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

The point I was making was that Hearts have been now punished (Points deduction and transfer embargo) and there is unlikely to be any further punishments coming.

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Is there still not a punishment or non payment of wages and taxes to be meted out?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

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I love this place.

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Originally Posted by desantos0773

Well we have not heard anything new since Thursday's transfer embargo and Friday's Romanov arrest warrant. In the crazy world of Hearts and Romanov there can be no more than two days without fresh scandals. No UBIG appeal leads to quickening of Hearts admin process !

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Even breaking news needs a break :-)

One thing that really surprises me is the weekend contributions the likes you, Crops, Bajillions. Sergey and Caversham Green!

Your fees are high enough during the week, god knows what the weekend rates are!!!! You must be costing dotnet more than BDO are costing the yams :-D

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Originally Posted by Jack

Even breaking news needs a break :-)

One thing that really surprises me is the weekend contributions the likes you, Crops, Bajillions. Sergey and Caversham Green!

Your fees are high enough during the week, god knows what the weekend rates are!!!! You must be costing dotnet more than BDO are costing the yams :-D

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I'm a freelance researcher so I do the hard work for pennies and the guys on the big wages take the credit ;)

To cheer me up after yesterday's debacle I read the whole BDO document of 26 July, sad I know! I have some questions for our resident experts & some separate comments.

Q1. Yams turnover increased from 2011 to 2012 by £1.8mm yet their profit of £0.5mm turned into a loss of £1.6mm. So effectively £3.9mm worse off in 2012. Can anyone remember why?
Q2. On P4 it states circa £900k has been received from ticket sales ( net of VAT =£750k ). On P14, receipts & payments it shows an exact total of £813,195.83 & on P15 it shows the RBS season ticket a/c as holding £803,396.70! On P7 it states that £125k is still held by the agency & will be released at set times after the 1st home game. i know the figures on P14 are a trading a/c so I'm guessing the £813K includes VAT + £125k still to come = the circa £900k quoted on P4. Does this make sense?
Q3 The trading a/c figures show a surplus of £958,477 since Admin. There's been some comment on here that if Yams are liquidated shortly there will be some £600k to pay to creditors but is that correct? This trading a/c is a snapshot in time & there will be further income & expenditure since the cut off date. Assuming extra income from derby is offset by wages (approx £200k) there are VAT liabilities of minimum £250k, PAYE/NIB of about £140k & football debts of £535k, that doesn't leave too much to distribute.

Didn't mean this to be so lengthy, would appreciate comments & I'll post some more shortly.

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Originally Posted by brog

To cheer me up after yesterday's debacle I read the whole BDO document of 26 July, sad I know! I have some questions for our resident experts & some separate comments.

Q1. Yams turnover increased from 2011 to 2012 by £1.8mm yet their profit of £0.5mm turned into a loss of £1.6mm. So effectively £3.9mm worse off in 2012. Can anyone remember why?
Q2. On P4 it states circa £900k has been received from ticket sales ( net of VAT =£750k ). On P14, receipts & payments it shows an exact total of £813,195.83 & on P15 it shows the RBS season ticket a/c as holding £803,396.70! On P7 it states that £125k is still held by the agency & will be released at set times after the 1st home game. i know the figures on P14 are a trading a/c so I'm guessing the £813K includes VAT + £125k still to come = the circa £900k quoted on P4. Does this make sense?
Q3 The trading a/c figures show a surplus of £958,477 since Admin. There's been some comment on here that if Yams are liquidated shortly there will be some £600k to pay to creditors but is that correct? This trading a/c is a snapshot in time & there will be further income & expenditure since the cut off date. Assuming extra income from derby is offset by wages (approx £200k) there are VAT liabilities of minimum £250k, PAYE/NIB of about £140k & football debts of £535k, that doesn't leave too much to distribute.

Didn't mean this to be so lengthy, would appreciate comments & I'll post some more shortly.

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Sorry, but that's a load of nonsense.

1. The "profits" under Romanov (if there were any) were due to his write offs of debt, not actual trading.

2. Trading account figures won't include VAT in income and will include PAYE/NIC costs in wages.

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Originally Posted by brog

To cheer me up after yesterday's debacle I read the whole BDO document of 26 July, sad I know! I have some questions for our resident experts & some separate comments.

Q1. Yams turnover increased from 2011 to 2012 by £1.8mm yet their profit of £0.5mm turned into a loss of £1.6mm. So effectively £3.9mm worse off in 2012. Can anyone remember why?
Q2. On P4 it states circa £900k has been received from ticket sales ( net of VAT =£750k ). On P14, receipts & payments it shows an exact total of £813,195.83 & on P15 it shows the RBS season ticket a/c as holding £803,396.70! On P7 it states that £125k is still held by the agency & will be released at set times after the 1st home game. i know the figures on P14 are a trading a/c so I'm guessing the £813K includes VAT + £125k still to come = the circa £900k quoted on P4. Does this make sense?
Q3 The trading a/c figures show a surplus of £958,477 since Admin. There's been some comment on here that if Yams are liquidated shortly there will be some £600k to pay to creditors but is that correct? This trading a/c is a snapshot in time & there will be further income & expenditure since the cut off date. Assuming extra income from derby is offset by wages (approx £200k) there are VAT liabilities of minimum £250k, PAYE/NIB of about £140k & football debts of £535k, that doesn't leave too much to distribute.

Didn't mean this to be so lengthy, would appreciate comments & I'll post some more shortly.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Sorry, but that's a load of nonsense.

1. The "profits" under Romanov (if there were any) were due to his write offs of debt, not actual trading.

2. Trading account figures won't include VAT in income and will include PAYE/NIC costs in wages.

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There was £7.9M in debt forgiveness by UBIG which papered over what would have been a huge loss. It was highlighted way back in 2011 that these accounts had been manipulated, but everything was rosy as far as the Yams were concerned.

Edit - I've just checked their 2009/10 accounts which showed a loss of £8.63M - so without the debt forgiveness in the 10/11 accounts, losses would have been pretty much the same, give or take.

OK, one last question & a few comments.
Q4 Yams ( supposedly ) sold approx 7,000 seasons pre admin & 3,000 since. Income shows at £1.4mm & £900k respectively. In other words average income increased by 50% per ticket, from £200 to £300. Does that make sense?

Comments
1. 24 members of Yam staff have been working for free since Admin. This is obviously not sustainable but I find it shameful when Bryan Jackson is charging approx £500 per hour!
2. The post Admin cake bake donations have been ring fenced & totalled £48k. That's just under 11p for each of the 400,000!!
3. The leasehold property at HWU was valued in books at £2.15mm, now shown as NIL, big team right enough.

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Originally Posted by brog

To cheer me up after yesterday's debacle I read the whole BDO document of 26 July, sad I know! I have some questions for our resident experts & some separate comments.

Q1. Yams turnover increased from 2011 to 2012 by £1.8mm yet their profit of £0.5mm turned into a loss of £1.6mm. So effectively £3.9mm worse off in 2012. Can anyone remember why?
Q2. On P4 it states circa £900k has been received from ticket sales ( net of VAT =£750k ). On P14, receipts & payments it shows an exact total of £813,195.83 & on P15 it shows the RBS season ticket a/c as holding £803,396.70! On P7 it states that £125k is still held by the agency & will be released at set times after the 1st home game. i know the figures on P14 are a trading a/c so I'm guessing the £813K includes VAT + £125k still to come = the circa £900k quoted on P4. Does this make sense?
Q3 The trading a/c figures show a surplus of £958,477 since Admin. There's been some comment on here that if Yams are liquidated shortly there will be some £600k to pay to creditors but is that correct? This trading a/c is a snapshot in time & there will be further income & expenditure since the cut off date. Assuming extra income from derby is offset by wages (approx £200k) there are VAT liabilities of minimum £250k, PAYE/NIB of about £140k & football debts of £535k, that doesn't leave too much to distribute.

Didn't mean this to be so lengthy, would appreciate comments & I'll post some more shortly.

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1. The half million profit in 2011 was arrived at after debt forgiveness of £8.8m so they really made a loss of £8.3m

2. The receipts & payments figure (£813k) is net of VAT, but includes the £125k still to come from the agency (also net of VAT) - that is probably included in the Sales invoice ledger figure at the bottom of P15. The £803k is a cash at bank figure.

3. You're right that the account is a snapshot of how things stood at 26 July and the cash figure will be much reduced by the time a CVA or liquidation happens. In the case of liquidation all cash that is left would go to the creditors, in a CVA it would probably be retained by the incoming owners. The football debts will be due after the administration finishes - for a liquidation they would not be payable unless as a condition of a newco gaining admission to the league, for administration the new owners would have to fund them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brog

Q4 Yams ( supposedly ) sold approx 7,000 seasons pre admin & 3,000 since. Income shows at £1.4mm & £900k respectively. In other words average income increased by 50% per ticket, from £200 to £300. Does that make sense?

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Before admin fans were buying tickets to watch football, after admin they were buying them so that the club could survive so it's plausible that more expensive tickets were bought as they became more emotionally valuable

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

1. The half million profit in 2011 was arrived at after debt forgiveness of £8.8m so they really made a loss of £8.3m

2. The receipts & payments figure (£813k) is net of VAT, but includes the £125k still to come from the agency (also net of VAT) - that is probably included in the Sales invoice ledger figure at the bottom of P15. The £803k is a cash at bank figure.

3. You're right that the account is a snapshot of how things stood at 26 July and the cash figure will be much reduced by the time a CVA or liquidation happens. In the case of liquidation all cash that is left would go to the creditors, in a CVA it would probably be retained by the incoming owners. The football debts will be due after the administration finishes - for a liquidation they would not be payable unless as a condition of a newco gaining admission to the league, for administration the new owners would have to fund them.

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Thanks Cav/Sergey/PTS - it did seem strange to me that BDO show a profit of £511k in 2011 but directly underneath state, " The Club had traded at a loss for several years with these losses being underwritten by UBIG. " There's quite a difference between underwritten & written off!

While there is a captive audience of the financial sages.
When they put the debt owed to HMRC in their 11/12 accounts in full. If they had just put what was owed via their scheduled payments into that years accounts would HMRC be a creditor for the full amount or just what was owed to the placing in admin ?
Hope that makes sense. Felt like mandarin chinese when I was trying to word it.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

While there is a captive audience of the financial sages.
When they put the debt owed to HMRC in their 11/12 accounts in full. If they had just put what was owed via their scheduled payments into that years accounts would HMRC be a creditor for the full amount or just what was owed to the placing in admin ?
Hope that makes sense. Felt like mandarin chinese when I was trying to word it.

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The accounts have to show the clubs state of affairs at the balance sheet date, therefore they have to show all liabilities regardless of when they fall due. That means that they couldn't have just included the scheduled payments.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

While there is a captive audience of the financial sages.
When they put the debt owed to HMRC in their 11/12 accounts in full. If they had just put what was owed via their scheduled payments into that years accounts would HMRC be a creditor for the full amount or just what was owed to the placing in admin ?
Hope that makes sense. Felt like mandarin chinese when I was trying to word it.

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Regardless of how the yams displayed the liability in their "accounts", HMRC are entitled to claim the full amount from the admin.

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

The accounts have to show the clubs state of affairs at the balance sheet date, therefore they have to show all liabilities regardless of when they fall due. That means that they couldn't have just included the scheduled payments.

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Cheers Cav.

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Originally Posted by brog

OK, one last question & a few comments.
Q4 Yams ( supposedly ) sold approx 7,000 seasons pre admin & 3,000 since. Income shows at £1.4mm & £900k respectively. In other words average income increased by 50% per ticket, from £200 to £300. Does that make sense?

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They had "early bird" style pricing which will account for some of that.

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

Others have made it clear that the SPFL were not in a position to do anything because they might have faced a legal challenge.

So I have a question for you, Desantos.

I've been following this thread from the start, and the most knowledgeable folks have been Caversham Green, Cropleywasgod and Sergey. You appeared late in the day with, what appeared to be new knowledge at around the time UBIG or Ukio Bankas were going into administration (I can't remember which) however, and it is just my opinion, since then you have not contributed anything new. Mostly regurgitating the same things worded differently, so, can you clear up for me, and anybody else with similar thoughts, where do you get you information and what contacts and qualification you have to give your opinions?

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Original CV posted in your profile please and swear with all 6 fingers of one hand on the bible that your not a yam.

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Originally Posted by Hiberlin

Original CV posted in your profile please and swear with all 6 fingers of one hand on the bible that your not a yam.

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From now on all posts on this thread must be accompanied by full Harvard referencing and be linked to your Linkten profile which must have at least 5 independent approvers.

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Originally Posted by desantos0773

From now on all posts on this thread must be accompanied by full Harvard referencing and be linked to your Linkten profile which must have at least 5 independent approvers.

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Get a Hibs tattoo, much cheaper than all that time consuming and expensive educational credential stuff and you can flash it any time you want. A Hibs tat is for life though, not just the duration of any passing despots hold on your team:greengrin

Hearts reveal they sold 10,500 season tickets

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...kets-1-3030385

A club spokesperson said: “Hearts fans continue to prove that there is no-one else like them in Scottish football. :jamboak: “The support they have given the club has been tremendous and everybody is looking forward to seeing Tynecastle packed out this season.

:fenlonYou're still Donald ducked, just a pity Vlad has stolen most of it.

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Originally Posted by YehButNoBut

Hearts reveal they sold 10,500 season tickets

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...kets-1-3030385

A club spokesperson said: “Hearts fans continue to prove that there is no-one else like them in Scottish football. :jamboak: “The support they have given the club has been tremendous and everybody is looking forward to seeing Tynecastle packed out this season.

:fenlonYou're still Donald ducked.

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Administration is certainly a money spinner.:rolleyes::greengrin

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Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

Get a Hibs tattoo, much cheaper than all that time consuming and expensive educational credential stuff and you can flash it any time you want. A Hibs tat is for life though, not just the duration of any passing despots hold on your team:greengrin

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It's the one tattoo I've considered getting. Most football team are there through out your life (unless you are a Jambo of course). Wives and girlfriends come and go as do players and owners. It might be my middle age rebellion!

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Originally Posted by YehButNoBut

Hearts reveal they sold 10,500 season tickets

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...kets-1-3030385

A club spokesperson said: “Hearts fans continue to prove that there is no-one else like them in Scottish football. :jamboak: “The support they have given the club has been tremendous and everybody is looking forward to seeing Tynecastle packed out this season.

:fenlonYou're still Donald ducked, just a pity Vlad has stolen most of it.

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Yep, no one like them thankfully otherwise there'd be a lot more charities businesses and government organisations being bumped.

Hang on a minute though, there are similarities now, and yet to come with another former Top flight Scottish club, Rangers, now reformed as The Rangers, there are many likenesses...................what are the odds of a yam spokesman getting it wrong?

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Originally Posted by YehButNoBut

club spokesperson said: “Hearts fans continue to prove that there is no-one else like them in Scottish football. .

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There wont be much argument on here with that statement. I would extend it further to say there is no one like them in the world. Thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Hiberlin

Original CV posted in your profile please and swear with all 6 fingers of one hand on the bible that your not a yam.

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Ouch! I asked a question, got a satisfactory answer and Desantos has not taken exception to it, so why should anybody els?

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

Ouch! I asked a question, got a satisfactory answer and Desantos has not taken exception to it, so why should anybody els?

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Whoosh ! Six fingers gave it away.

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Originally Posted by YehButNoBut

Hearts reveal they sold 10,500 season tickets

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...kets-1-3030385

A club spokesperson said: “Hearts fans continue to prove that there is no-one else like them in Scottish football. :jamboak: “The support they have given the club has been tremendous and everybody is looking forward to seeing Tynecastle packed out this season.

:fenlonYou're still Donald ducked, just a pity Vlad has stolen most of it.

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And they're right there certainly is no one else quite like them, and their hasn't been since man evolved from the ape.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Whoosh ! Six fingers gave it away.

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Only a Yam would have missed that. :wink:

Sad state of affairs when all they have to get excited about is us being humped out of Europe.

Sooner they dissappear the better:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=pYQ8AtCl9es

Meanwhile FoH report "5.8K pledgers, slow over the last few days"

I guess they should have paid for an advert in a decent paper, then again it would have missed it's target audience.

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Originally Posted by Dunderhall

Meanwhile FoH report "5.8K pledgers, slow over the last few days"

I guess they should have paid for an advert in a decent paper, then again it would have missed it's target audience.

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A decent paper? Take your pick from the EEN, Scotsman, the Daily weedgie rags or perhaps is your average yam more a Telegraph reader?

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Originally Posted by steakbake

A decent paper? Take your pick from the EEN, Scotsman, the Daily weedgie rags or perhaps is your average yam more a Telegraph reader?

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Financial Times? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by desantos0773

It's the one tattoo I've considered getting. Most football team are there through out your life (unless you are a Jambo of course). Wives and girlfriends come and go as do players and owners. It might be my middle age rebellion!

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My spiderman and superman tats are timeless.................:cb

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Originally Posted by steakbake

A decent paper? Take your pick from the EEN, Scotsman, the Daily weedgie rags or perhaps is your average yam more a Telegraph reader?

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Apparantly the newspaper sub-committee has now received the survey results and the Metro has been selected.

This will be approved at the next sub-committe meeting, to be arranged, and the recommendation passed up to the communication committee. If passed, the communication director will approve it and it goes to the finance director for approval. If the marketing director makes the final signature then it just depends on Ian Murray's (MP) availability for the photo shoot.

Should be available around 2014, subject to the Metro still trading.

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

Ouch! I asked a question, got a satisfactory answer and Desantos has not taken exception to it, so why should anybody els?

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I'm very diplomatic and try and bring the Hibs family together. Hate us all fighting and moaning at each other!

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Originally Posted by Dunderhall

Apparantly the newspaper sub-committee has now received the survey results and the Metro has been selected.

This will be approved at the next sub-committe meeting, to be arranged, and the recommendation passed up to the communication committee. If passed, the communication director will approve it and it goes to the finance director for approval. If the marketing director makes the final signature then it just depends on Ian Murray's (MP) availability for the photo shoot.

Should be available around 2014, subject to the Metro still trading.

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Couldn't Foulkes just demand an audience with Rupert Murdoch for the ads to be placed for free to save such an institution!?

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Originally Posted by steakbake

Couldn't Foulkes just demand an audience with Rupert Murdoch for the ads to be placed for free to save such an institution!?

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He already did apparantly, Murdoch declined the free offer but as a compromise said he could get Fox to include him in a future Simpsons episode.
Barney's long lost twin was agreed after a lunch if the promised contacts into Lithuanian subscription TV was provided.

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Originally Posted by YehButNoBut

Hearts reveal they sold 10,500 season tickets

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...kets-1-3030385

A club spokesperson said: “Hearts fans continue to prove that there is no-one else like them in Scottish football. :jamboak: “The support they have given the club has been tremendous and everybody is looking forward to seeing Tynecastle packed out this season.

:fenlonYou're still Donald ducked, just a pity Vlad has stolen most of it.

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:hilarious

"No one like them in Scottish Football"
"football as we know it wouldn't exist without them"
etc, etc, etc.

The ones who believe this must be sitting scratching their heads as to why nobody is even willing to pay the land value for the club.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YehButNoBut

Hearts reveal they sold 10,500 season tickets

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...kets-1-3030385

A club spokesperson said: “Hearts fans continue to prove that there is no-one else like them in Scottish football. :jamboak: “The support they have given the club has been tremendous and everybody is looking forward to seeing Tynecastle packed out this season.

:fenlonYou're still Donald ducked, just a pity Vlad has stolen most of it.

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Yeah but more than 3/4 of that money was put in a suitcase and flown to Lithland. (Along with the share money Tee Hee) they prob sold a further 3.5k ST since the request from BDO plus whatever they had before so that's how they came about this latest figure.

As for pledges just under 6K it was over 6K months ago was it not.

Delaying the inevitable IMHO, bit like dangling the carrot then doing their knees!

Muppets

How long since they were told to up their bids? Not much chat coming from either party about working on a new bid. Is there a deadline?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

How long since they were told to up their bids? Not much chat coming from either party about working on a new bid. Is there a deadline?

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It make no odds, as they will move it anyway to suit themselves!....

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

How long since they were told to up their bids? Not much chat coming from either party about working on a new bid. Is there a deadline?

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Thought I read something about a creditors meeting taking place on the 12th however I don't think this is a deadline for bids

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeithenHibby

It make no odds, as they will move it anyway to suit themselves!....

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Who will?

The only people who have any real power to set or move any deadlines are UKIO. I'm happy for them to move anything "to suit themselves".

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Originally Posted by LeithenHibby

It make no odds, as they will move it anyway to suit themselves!....

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The real deadline won't be made by Hearts or BDO but in Lithuania.

I ****ing hate Hearts.

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Originally Posted by Sean1875

I ****ing hate Hearts.

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:top marksThis

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Who will?

The only people who have any real power to set or move any deadlines are UKIO. I'm happy for them to move anything "to suit themselves".

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Don't be facetious :wink: I was being facetious :greengrin

Just to confirm what we already know, that Hibs.net is always ahead of the curve.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...laim-1-3031355

The important line for me:-

the call for the international search was made about four weeks ago.

.... which we knew (courtesy of Sergey)........... four weeks ago.

:top marks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

How long since they were told to up their bids? Not much chat coming from either party about working on a new bid. Is there a deadline?

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Clearly any revised bids will not get close to what Ukio are looking for. We are set for a wee mortgage boom with the introduction of the coalition's subsisdised mortgage scheme. Reckon Ukio are going to let us whip them once more and then ask BDO to start liquidation proceedings next weeek.:greengrin

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Just to confirm what we already know, that Hibs.net is always ahead of the curve.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...laim-1-3031355

The important line for me:-

the call for the international search was made about four weeks ago.

.... which we knew (courtesy of Sergey)........... four weeks ago.

:top marks

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If the thicko journos just read Hibs net then they would be producing scoops all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Mellow Hibee

:hilarious

"No one like them in Scottish Football"
"football as we know it wouldn't exist without them"
etc, etc, etc.

The ones who believe this must be sitting scratching their heads as to why nobody is even willing to pay the land value for the club.

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Shouldnt that read, "No one likes them in Scottish Football"

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Originally Posted by alnewhaven

Shouldnt that read, "No one likes them in Scottish Football"

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Their own mothers don't even like them

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Originally Posted by soproni1

Their own mothers don't even like them

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And if they knew who their father's were they wouldn't like them either.

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Originally Posted by Mikey

And if they knew who their father's were they wouldn't like them either.

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I thought their fathers were their uncles.

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Originally Posted by Geo_1875

I thought their fathers were their uncles.

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They are their uncles AND their brothers :greengrin.

The jambo family tree don't fork much!

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Originally Posted by blindsummit

They are their uncles AND their brothers :greengrin.

The jambo family tree don't fork much!

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That's cause they fork each other

The jambo family tree is a stump

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Originally Posted by Mellow Hibee

:hilarious

"No one like them in Scottish Football"

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Shouldn't that read "No one likes them in Scottish Football"?

As in:

"No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don't care!"

The fact that there is 'no one like them' is a positive

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Originally Posted by green.and.white

The fact that there is 'no one like them' is a positive

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http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/...rryJ/CRIcP.gif

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Originally Posted by Jack Hackett

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/...rryJ/CRIcP.gif

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Outstanding reference :greengrin

BDO concerned about the ongoing funding of th eadministration process. Looks like the Gorgie boys will need to get back into the kitchens and the home brew kits soon.

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

BDO concerned about the ongoing funding of th eadministration process. Looks like the Gorgie boys will need to get back into the kitchens and the home brew kits soon.

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Won't be long now until the Gorgie faithful turn their guns on the very people charged with saving the "institution"...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

BDO concerned about the ongoing funding of th eadministration process. Looks like the Gorgie boys will need to get back into the kitchens and the home brew kits soon.

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Where we seeing this reported?

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Originally Posted by robinp

where we seeing this reported?

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een

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

BDO concerned about the ongoing funding of th eadministration process. Looks like the Gorgie boys will need to get back into the kitchens and the home brew kits soon.

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That's a shame.

http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu...tuva-59-359548


Vlad says he is going back to Lithuania at the end of the month.

Might be good news if he fights his corner and all the dirty washing gets an airing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean1875

I ****ing hate Hearts.

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F*** the c***s! :agree:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TQM

F*** the c***s! :agree:

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Smelly mother ****ing *******s

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...sale-1-3033375

I noted this bit: -

Meetings are taking place between BDO and the Foundation as they prepare a second bid. Officials at Valnetas have stated privately that they would be willing to do a deal for around £5m but the Foundation’s cash offer was some way short of that figure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stevie Reid

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...sale-1-3033375

I noted this bit: -

Meetings are taking place between BDO and the Foundation as they prepare a second bid. Officials at Valnetas have stated privately that they would be willing to do a deal for around £5m but the Foundation’s cash offer was some way short of that figure.

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This is the important bit for me:-

“The season ticket money has caused such a massive problem for all of us. If we had been appointed administrators and got the money from 7000 season tickets, then potentially that would take care of the funding gap."

In other words, delaying the administration is what is killing the chances of a deal. Had they gone into administration six months ago, they might have had a better chance of a CVA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stevie Reid

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...sale-1-3033375

I noted this bit: -

Meetings are taking place between BDO and the Foundation as they prepare a second bid. Officials at Valnetas have stated privately that they would be willing to do a deal for around £5m but the Foundation’s cash offer was some way short of that figure.

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Let's be honest £5m for stadium, club and forgiveness of debt is an absolute bargain so if anyone is serious about bidding this shouldn't be insurmountable.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Let's be honest £5m for stadium, club and forgiveness of debt is an absolute bargain so if anyone is serious about bidding this shouldn't be insurmountable.

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I would agree. However, it's the EEN, so I have my doubts about how genuine that bit is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

This is the important bit for me:-

“The season ticket money has caused such a massive problem for all of us. If we had been appointed administrators and got the money from 7000 season tickets, then potentially that would take care of the funding gap."

In other words, delaying the administration is what is killing the chances of a deal. Had they gone into administration six months ago, they might have had a better chance of a CVA.

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They kept the rancid corpse on life support to avoid the 18 pt penalty which would have relegated them. Then there would be no way they'd sell 10000 STs. Just as there is no way they would have won the cup without Vlads financial doping. A truly horrible club.

The frozen UBIG shares still an issue too.

I doubt £5million would be acceptable giving that a valuation on the land will likely be more than that, significantly more. When the Lith administrator stated they want the best for their creditors, this £5million valuation doesn't fit their agenda.

The Evening News spin is biased to FoH

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Originally Posted by Onion

They kept the rancid corpse on life support to avoid the 18 pt penalty which would have relegated them. Then there would be no way they'd sell 10000 STs. Just as there is no way they would have won the cup without Vlads financial doping. A truly horrible club.

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Agreed, up to a point. However, if they'd gone into administration in February, they would have known about the 18 point penalty at that point. That would have given them time to actually play their way out of relegation.

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Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay

The frozen UBIG shares still an issue too.

I doubt £5million would be acceptable giving that a valuation on the land will likely be more than that, significantly more. When the Lith administrator stated they want the best for their creditors, this £5million valuation doesn't fit their agenda.

The Evening News spin is biased to FoH

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Oh, shut up. That's just not an issue. That's just Hobonomic frothing.

:cb

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Oh, shut up. That's just not an issue. That's just Hobonomic frothing.

:cb

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:cb