And i feel like this is getting closer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXvJ8UquYooQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibeesforever
Printable View
And i feel like this is getting closer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXvJ8UquYooQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibeesforever
Unbelievable, Heid in the sand brigade across the road reckon this is a good thing. Also stating that its nothing new as its always been up for sale, just been over valued by Romanov.Quote:
Originally Posted by s.a.m
They're really struggling to grasp the seriousness of the situation.
What I don't get is, why do they think that any Adminastrators or whoever is taking over Ukio is going to give any consideration to some debt ridden little football club. They'll do whatever is best for the situation in Lithuania and if that means wiping out Hearts, I doubt any Lithuanian Bankers tidying up Romanovs mess are really going to lose too much sleep.
The security was switched from UBIG to Ukio on 11 December. Yams need to ask themselves why this was done. Most likely it was a desperate (now failed) effort by Romanov to prop up Ukio, by strengthening its balance sheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by macca70
Just been looking at Keechback. The general concensus over there seems to be that all debt will be written off, the club will be sold at a knockdown price to any interested party and Hertz will, therefore, come out of this smelling of roses. Head in the sand or what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
Oh no, that's terrible!:worried:
It's not sand, it's baking powder!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Milne
One scenario that appears to have their fans breathing easier today is this:
Relevant Debts:
~£16m - UBIG, unsecured.
£6.8m - Ukio Bankas, secured (via floating charge over Tynecastle, to the tune of £6.8m + all sums that become due between us and UB, including interest and charges)
Ukio Bankas:
Siauliu Bankas seem to think that the Bank of Lithuania are to transfer "the assets, rights, transactions and liabilities" of Ukio to them, "without exceeding the limit as provided in the Republic of Lithuania Law on Insurance of Deposits and Liabilities to Investors." From what I understand, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (SB's largest shareholder and seemingly a tool rich capitalist countries use to encourage capitalism in ex-communist countries) are pumping a fair chunk of cash into the bank to allow this to happen. Presumably some of these assets will be declared toxic, and fobbed off on the government. It seems possible (likely?) that the floating charge over Tynecastle will end up with Siauliu Bankas. Totally outwith Vlad's control, and with us owing SB £6.8m + any interest and charges they then see fit to apply. They may well look for instant repayment, but why would they? They'll not get anywhere near £6.8m if they put Hearts into administration.
UBIG:
As of last night, UBIG appear to have absolutely zero to gain from HMFC. Administration (and liquidation) would mean paying someone else to give Siauliu Bankas the proceeds of the sale of Tynecastle and give them nothing (UBIG agreed they "shall not take any steps to enforce the security created pursuant to the Floating Charge..."). Given they can't recoup anything from Tynecastle (they've effectively sold it to UB for £6.8m), HMFC are basically worthless as a genuine asset. So since they have nothing to gain from liquidating the club, it seems like any bid for the club would be preferable to them. i.e. 1p on the £ would be better than the alternatives.
If UBIG themselves were to go into administration, my understanding is, we don't automatically go into administration. Instead, UBIG's administrator would look to get the best value for the Lithuanian tax payer from UBIG's assets. In other words, as explained above, sell us to the highest bidder (leaving Siauliu Bankas' floating charge in place).
Anyone care to tear it to shreds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Milne
To be fair the debt will be written off one way or another because there is no way that they are able to pay it back. Lets just hope that they go bust first :agree:
It's complete nonsense because the UBIG loans (and associated assets) will not be transferred to the other Lithuanian bank. As explained in the Bloomberg article linked above, the Lithuanian Government is borrowing about £200M to cover the excess of deposits over good loans that will be transferred to the other bank. In turn the Government will need to realise as much as it can from the bad loans to reduce that loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickyNicky
Yep, all good then, hopefully this latest minor inconvenience will go away and the Megasuperhotelstadium will still be built with the money from the Champions League win Blah blah blah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Milne
There will apparently be a rainbow permanently over tiny, the ground itself will be a giant 3D one and all toothless fans will be given free gold teeth, you may doubt this but Mr Romanov owns a bank you know.
Tynecastle will be put up for sale to the highest bidder.
Will that be a property speculator looking to build Flats, Flats, Glorious Flats . . . or someone looking to own Hearts or lease the ground to them?
That's probably 50/50 right now.
Of bigger concern to Jambos at this precise moment should be the fact their club has no money. Like, ZERO cash.
Administration is unavoidable. Liquidation a possibility, depending on how much they owe the taxman.
It's probably 50/50 whether they will find enough cash to see out the season.
Then it will be Fire Sale time for the team and highest bidder gets the club.
No one will step in until administrators are appointed and it is confirmed that Mad Vlad is off the scene for good, cruising towards the Caribbean in his submarine.
My feeling is that there will be a team calling itself Hearts playing next season.
In, at best, SFL1. :agree:
Here is the Good Morning Scotland with the reporter on it. Don't think he really has anything new to say beyond his earlier reports. Starts at 44:20.Quote:
Originally Posted by s.a.m
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...nd_20_02_2013/
I wonder if the bookies are taking bets on the Yams surviving the season. Probably worse odds than the 14/1 for the much anticipated pandahumps.
Tynecastle Green?Quote:
Originally Posted by EuanH78
For me, what could happen is that the adminstrator/UBIG/UKIO/whoever sell the football club along with Tynie to someone (FOH?) for a symbolic £1 (or maybe even 1€ if they can't raise a quid), on provision that they take on at least some of the debt (£20m?), scheduled to be repaid over 20-25 years, with repayments starting during the close season.
If this was to happen quickly (ie. before UBIG go into administration) they could struggle on to the end of the season with a relatively small cash injection - maybe a couple of million quid to pay wages, the first tax installment, etc.), leaving them to start with a clean slate next season, with their ST money intact, but with a hefty debt to service - though remember Hibs were £16-18m in debt not too long ago.
However, if nothing happens quickly then they're daffied. UBIG will go down the cludgie taking Hearts with them, leading to an automatic points deduction, probable non payment of wages and the first tax installment, further sanctions and every possibilty of Pheonix Merrick FC trying desperately to get into D3 with no ground to call their own, no 3 years of accounts (or none that make sense in any case) and a lot less clout in terms of tv and sponsorship deals than Sevco.
I'm not sure how anything between the 2 scenarios could happen.
I might be totally off-beam, but I'm not sure that anything can be happen ownership-wise due to the ownership/security complexities, and the likelihood that no bidder has yet been given access to the true financial horror of the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Administration - either by running our of cash or by UBIG being dragged under - now seems the most likely outcome to me.
I doubt Hearts/UBIG/Fedotas will have any say in who buys Hearts/anythingHeartsrelated. If they tried I'm sure the Lithuanian authorities would step in and put the blockers on.
Agreed. I think UBIG's admin or more likely liquidation is inevitable. Best case for HMFC is that UBIG manages to limp as far as the SPL split. I think if the points deduction comes post-split they will still finish 6th. If Massone or the mystery Scandics have a few million to burn then it's just about possible they could be sold complete with Tiny. Hopefully there's at least one developer out there to outbid them and leave them paying rent or homeless.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibs0666
They're not looking particularly good for a top six finish at the moment and an 18 point deduction takes them below Dundee either before the split or in the bottom six.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Sorry, I meant to say UBIG limp along and they somehow rouse themselves to a few decent results. Neither condition looking at all likely (shame).Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby
If we don't make the top 6 we might get to go to Tiny and relegate them. Now that would be a good day out. :wink:
I can't see them making top 6, and good because if they get that far, finishing in the top 6 would be a little cash injection. But frankly by then, any money coming in would be like King Canute trying to turn back the tide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby
Pointless.
I'm not sure that is what an administrator is there to do. I can't see them setting up a long term finance agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Anyone else get a feeling they will squirm out of all the **** untouched as per usual?
Come on the Lith administrators do your job a wee but faster and get they scarf twirling pricks down the pan!
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibs0666
I think its been 20 months since anyone seen their accounts. Anyone who thinks that they are coming out of this unscathed whatever happens is living in cloud cuckoo land.:crazy:
A bank that took on UKIO/UBIG's debts might. Hearts with a turnover of around £8m(?) and a debt of say £15-20m would be a going concern (although they would have to change their wage structure a bit :greengrin) and at least the bank would get some money. Otherwise they'll have to try to sell Tynie at the worst possible time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
I agree that both of these are the most likely and very probable.
The biggest issue with scenario 1 is finding out how much Hearts' debt level currently is. The last report was c. £22m but that was 20 months ago in their 2011 annual accounts. Nobody has been able to identify how much that has gone up since then. The debt won't have decreased due to all the shenanigans in November etc.
The lack of media attention on this baffles me. They had daily updates on the whole Rangers shambles and i've yet to see an actual news report on how much doodoo hearts are in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It wouldn't be the administrator that would set up the long term finance agreement. It would be the owner of the UKIO bankas "asset", which in this case is Hearts' debt.
With all the debt for equity stuff, they must be into UBIG for £50-60m!Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBean
lifted this from the Savilles....
The following has been cut and pasted directly from parts of the recent share issue prospectus.
'Now, after more than seven years since the original purchase of Heart of Midlothian plc by UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG), the majority shareholder of the Company, Hearts supporters and others are being offered the first chance since 2005 to potentially step towards a supporter-owned football club.
The Company’s balance sheet is negative and the Company would be insolvent (on the basis of being unable to pay its debts as they fall due) without the ongoing support of UBIG or alternative funding.Whilst the Company has short-term comfort from UBIG that it will not call up its debt, there is no guarantee that UBIG will not do so in the future, although the Board takes comfort from the fact that UBIG has supported the Club from 2006 to date by funding and debt restructuring.
As at the 30th of June 2011 the amount due to the parent company, UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, was £22,413,000, which amount bears interest at 4.5%. UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe have confirmed to the Directors of Heart of Midlothian plc. that they will not seek repayment of this amount during season 2012/2013 and at the 1st July 2013 the position will be reassessed. The balance due to UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe is secured by a standard security over Tynecastle stadium and a floating charge across the company’s assets. If UBIG were to demand repayment of the full amount, the Company would be insolvent and would face liquidation.
Whilst UBIG has expressed a current intention to explore the possibility of allowing the club’s supporters the opportunity to acquire over time a majority stake in the Company’s share capital and has positioned the current offer as the first step towards that possibility, there is no commitment on the part of UBIG to continue with this current intention and the Company’s debt levels are such that further debt capitalisations may be required in the future, which would have the effect of significantly diluting the other shareholders’ interests in the Company. For so long as UBIG owns or controls more than 75% of the Company’s share capital, it will be able to pass the resolutions required to effect any such debt capitalisation.
The Company is largely owned and absolutely controlled by UBIG and will continue to be controlled by UBIG for so long as it owns more than 50% of the Company’s share capital. Unlike directors, who owe certain duties to the shareholders of the Company, UBIG does not and can largely act out of self-interest at any time, although the Board takes comfort from the fact that UBIG has supported the Club from 2006 to date by funding and debt restructuring.
So the Savilles OWN documents show things could be a wee bit shaky for them..... and for UBIG, read Lith Central bank/Lith Administrators if UBIG goes tits up
:cb
Great find :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Alf R
Agricultural Bank of healthy assets and liabilities will attempt to pass Siauliai bank and bad bank liabilities to leave BANKRUPTCY. It is stated that the Bank would transfer all insured deposits and borrowed a healthy bank assets. Successful conclusion of the negotiations in Siauliai Bank of Economy Bank should take over not only the 2.7 billion. £ value of the insured deposits, but also the value of loans. The problem is that the economic value of the bank such as good credit is probably not as many of them have been issued with Vladimir Romanov-related businesses. Missing part of the good loans (600-800 million. Dollars) will cover the SE Deposit and Investment Insurance, writes "Business News". According to the Bank Finasta analyst Thaddeus Poviliauskas theory Šiauliai Economy Bank for the good of the bank to pay anything, because how will the assets and assume the same obligations. However, analysts said the bank takes over Siauliai Farm Bank customers have secured market share and expand the geography of activities, so some sort of amount for foreclosed assets are likely to pay. T. Povilauskas think that the price can range from a symbolic LTL to higher amounts which would have covered the depositable assets. Agricultural Bank of temporary administrator and Siauliai bank negotiations for property acquisition is expected to close this week.
Another day another page, more boring stories about the bank and still yet not a peep from any area of the media except FOH statements which mean nothing.
Closure of this thread long overdue, maybe admins waiting for a million views then pull the plug perhaps?
On what grounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762