When you say he should prioritise the safety and recovery of his country, what do you think Zelensky should have done there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
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When you say he should prioritise the safety and recovery of his country, what do you think Zelensky should have done there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
Spot on, they thought they could humiliate Z in front of Trumps selected press groupies, and it has backfired, as for Vance, Z must have been biting his tongue to not just smash him in the face and walk out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
Not spoke over and argued with the President of US in his office on live television. What did he think that would achieve? He’s alienated himself with him/them even more now. Sometimes you need to recognise and respect your place, especially against your biggest financial and military supporter. Trump is an idiotic, chaotic and dangerous man. But yipee because he stood up to him, whilst ruining any chance of his country getting a balanced deal and end to the conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
Your the only non reform voter or staunch republican nutter I've seen that doesn't see it as a clear hijack by Vance in particular to belittle a sovereign leader fighting a war. He wouldn't have been able to return to Ukraine if he sat there and let them spout Putin's lines. They have made him a hero in Europe it seems and European unity has just been given a huge shoveQuote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
Take the tinted glasses off and you’ll see the same. You think that was a good result for Ukraine, UK and Europe yesterday? It’s pretty devastating, I thought yesterday would be the beginning of the end of it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
What on Earth made you think that? With Trump in the WH and his longstanding hatred of Z, there's no way that the US were ever going to faciltate the end of this war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Righto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
Well if you did you haven't been following things very clearly. It was an ambush to parrot Russian talking points. The point of the meeting wasn't a ceasefire it was a minerals deal with no security guarantees. I think yesterday will cement Europe's position. All leaders bar ours have came out in support. It feels liberating to be separated from the Russian bought bigots in the white house. I genuinely can't remember a more unified EuropeQuote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
In the case of the multi faced Vance, just one blow would do it....Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhibee
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And a unified Europe puts an end to the slaughter? Sounds like you don’t want things to end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I was being serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
How do you suggest this ends? Do you want Putin to keep the territory he has invaded? Make no reparations for the damage and lives lost? Because thats what Trump was offering. Or maybe you have a better idea?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
They wanted him to sign away the minerals before they talked about security guarantees. From what they've said so far, they might not be offering anything in return, and whatever that was or wasn't was for a future discussion. If there was a serious, possible balanced deal available, I might have agreed with you. For all our sakes, i genuinely think that it's probably more useful that Trump and his cabinet meet some resistance, and the rest of the world confronts the new reality sooner rather than later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
Ultimately, whatever Trump and Vance planned - whether it was an ambush, or a postcard to Putin, or an attempt to turn the tide against Zelensky's leadership - they weren't dealing in good faith.
It ends when Russia stops fighting and they don't want to. It's a genocide like in Palestine or Vietnam. I defend the right for all people being conquered to defend themselves. Russia won't stop without force, they have already disregarded 22 ceasefire deals. Saying people who back Ukraine defending themselves is insulting stupid and out of vlads playbookQuote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
I’d love nothing more than a bullet in Putin’s head and Russia to pay the cost, however I’m realistic. Do you seriously think there’s a scenario where Ukraine wins without support from US? The % of Americans wanting US to continue to support Ukraine keeps falling. Yesterday done that no favours and goes towards giving Trump even more of a mandate to do what the hell he wants. I get it’s unpopular to go against the mainstream media and party line, but you are seriously deluded if you think yesterday was anything else but a catastrophe for us all. But it’s ok, a few European leaders have tweeted on X to say they support Ukraine so it’ll all be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I don't necessary disagree with you here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
The point that he got into a slanging match under great provocation and that it may not have ended up serving his best interests is a fair one.
When it started to head South though - the point he made about the value of making multiple "deals" with Putin, all of which he went on to renege on was a fair one worth making - and that was what seemed to properly rile Vance.
It WAS an ambush and the behaviour of the Americans was deplorable on so many levels.
Zelensky isn't always the most deft diplomat and he wasn't here - with good reason, it would be fair to say.
To think that isn't unreasonable and it doesn't let the Americans off the hook for what was a despicable stunt.
Time will tell whether or not being honest and bravely fronting up or soaking up another 10 minutes or so of nonsense was in his, Ukraine's and our best interests.
You didn’t answer my question because you know, like I do, that Ukraine doesn’t win this or get a fair deal without the support of US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Trump hasn’t sent a penny and was never going to. Yesterday changed nothing in that respect. Yesterday was stage managed by Trump and Vance. There was no response from Zelensky that could have got more money from the US. They are now out of the coalition. Time to move on without them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
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I am amazed at how much chaos he has generated in such a short time frame.
What is our world going to look like in 4 years time with this meglomaniac at the helm.
I think Ukraine can and will win this if Europe supports them. Europe can’t afford for Ukraine to lose. And Europe can easily fund Ukraine to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
How does Russia win from here?
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Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
He needs the Europeans on his side more than anyone, they're the ones who have been stepping up to the plate most, most recently.
Obviously it would help greatly if the Americans were on board but they lose credibility as a genuine ally every day. They use alternative facts, have different agendas, plainly act in bad faith against the values held in the main by Europe. They tried extortion tactics on one of our allies.
Unless they change their ways they can gtf.
US never sent anything for almost 5 months a year ago and Ukraine fought off the invasion. Trump won't send anything regardless if Zelensky sits and agrees when they shout at him that he is rude to Putin. Europe dwarfs the Russian economy and they can step up if needed. Ukraine has been fighting on their own for over a decade. They will fight on with a lot more help than they did previouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock says Europe should send the most comprehensive package when they meet next week.
Surprised the tories are on the right side of history. Sunak says we should send the frozen £300 billion to Ukraine
https://archive.ph/exBF7
I would like to know why TASS the russan state media outfit were allowed into the oval office while the AP and Reuters were not.
Wouldn't even need to risk a five-year prison sentence by using sweary words on a placard. Probably 'We are all Janey Godley' would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Ah yes, those thriving UK and EU economies that are doing us all well!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Are you saying Russia has a stronger economy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rhoades
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I’m saying our economy would be better served with the war ending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby