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I asked a few pages back but no responses so far. All we are hearing about is Trump trying to broker a deal for Ukrainian minerals as repayment for aid they have given and this could signal the end of the conflict. Not a word about the crazy Russian’s view on this.
They knew exactly what they were doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Exactly. There has been nothing from Trump about Russia giving up anything? The reason for that is Russia can’t or won’t give up any land other than by force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
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Dunning Kruger. Textbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
A pair of absolutely vile *******s stitching up Zelensky and trying to force his hand in a deal that suits two super powers, the US and Russia.
I hope Ukraine’s European allies rally round Zelensky now and let Trump and his vile sidekick Vance know who’s side they are on.
Trump is effectively telling Ukraine its land for peace: give up everything Russia has occupied in exchange for a ceasefire. He doesn’t even need to check in with Putin; it’s a massive win for Russia, who would snap their hand off. Russia wouldn’t give up anything, would take a big chunk of Ukraine and end a conflict that has cost them around 700,000 dead and wounded so far. Trump told Zelenskyy to sign whatever is put in front of him, otherwise American assistance ends. It was basically a shake down in front of the cameras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Gangster movie, Putin's agent ****ting it as when the chips are down he has to deliver?Quote:
Originally Posted by s.a.m
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Thugs who can pretty much do what they like to their home audience but not equipped for the world beyond right wing America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
:agree:
Putin will be laughing his bollocks off. The US spent decades winning the Cold War, only to sell their democracy to Russia.
Russia should have been a pariah. It now seems to be pretty cosy with China and the Middle East, as America makes itself an enemy to more and more countries, both at home and abroad.
Europe really needs to be united here. I honestly cannot articulate just how much I hate Trump, Vance, Musk and all of their ilk. Well done to Zelenskyy for not bending the knee to their bullying.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie Reid
Russia backed the right horse, they got their man home and it's payback time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie Reid
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It’s almost as if geopolitics is tricky, and requires some intelligence and actual diplomacy.
FWIW - I’ve heard that the Russians haven’t been entirely thrilled with Trump and the USA since he came into power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Their trash talk, their misrepresentation and lack of discretion regarding private conversations etc.
Trump’s a bull in a China shop. He’s pissing everybody off, including those on his own side.
Adding the massaging of a narcissist’s ego into an already complex and volatile situation helps nobody.
And whilst Zelensky is not culpable here - neither is he much of a diplomat himself.
At the end of the day, I’m not as bothered by this as I might have been. The Americans showed themselves up and Zelensky refused to be bullied. Nothing has changed.
It’s just ridiculous that this happened where it did and in front of the cameras. It should have been behind closed doors. All part of Trump’s ludicrous reality tv show that everyone still panders to.
For clarity before posting, I am 100% for backing Ukraine and completely want them to categorically ‘win’ the war and reclaim all land lost to them, including the Crimea, however how does this realistically happen now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Ukraine can’t just haemorrhage troops forever in what currently seems to be a stalemate? (Combat reports on this thread have dried up which was my main source of info but I assume no major territorial changes in the last year and none obviously likely).
The only way Ukraine is going to regain their territory is through direct European Military intervention. We can give them all the financial aid and weapons in the world but I don’t think they have the manpower to achieve this standing alone.
Europe becoming directly involved means world war 3 and I think it’s mainly unlikely to happen. Personally if it wasn’t for the nuclear threat I would be reluctantly supportive of the decision to intervene.
To re ask the question, how does this currently end?
Right from the start, when Trump tried to bribe him into announcing an investigation into the Biden family, he's not given in. Obviously the situation is deeply grim, but I was worried that maybe, at his wits' end, he'd give everything up to try to get a ceasefire, and then see an emboldened Russia retool and restart the onslaught a wee while down the line. I underestimated him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie Reid
I'd maybe drive to Canada and get a plane from there though... :aok:
I suppose we shouldn’t really be shocked. Trump has been saying that any peace deal won’t involve a return to Ukraine’s previous borders. America even voted with Russia at the UN just the other day. He clearly wants Zelenskyy out of office so he can deal with a pro-Putin puppet in Kiev. Crazy times.
It’s actually staggering how successful they’ve been. Trump in the White House twice, and now doing their bidding in the most transparent way possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
The UK out of Europe and the continent fractured, with a significant right wing presence in government in most countries.
All thanks to their Twitter bots and owning the likes of Trump, Musk, Banks and Farage.
And all in less than a decade. Unbelievable.
You're not wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Stevie Reid
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:dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
It’s an absolute mess, made a hundred times worse today. America is demanding the impossible of Zelenskyy as a pretext to walking away. God knows how all this will play out; whether it’s possible to somehow fix things between Trump and Ukraine - and that’s if he even wants to. Could Europe and others fill the huge gap left behind if America walks away? If so, how soon and at what cost?
I would love Europe, the UK included, to tell Trumo and his cronies to go ***** themselves.
Problem is that the US has the UK, and other countries, in it's pocket when it comes to 'security'.
The world is currently at the mercy of the Man Baby Dicktator. A big thank you to the many millions of US citizens that put us in this situation.
Absolutely Europe can fill the gap. The Ukrainians can hold the lines as they are just now and I don’t think Russia’s economy can last much longer. It’s easy to think of it as stalemate but Ukraine can last longer. They are not losing as many men and their economy is backed by the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
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To be fair, I think we have been thrown out the pocket. Europe is on its own now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I wish that were true but unfortunately so many of our weapons are produced by the US, as is a large chunk of the software provided for security and surveillance.
We have a ridiculous level of reliance on the US and even if we withdraw from any agreements, they would still be 'the enemy within'
https://www.forcesnews.com/nato/uk-d...k-expert-warns
Has Starmer commented on the Zelensky Trump dialogue? I see that 14 European leaders so far have come out in clear support for Ukraine but haven’t seen anything from our government
Don’t expect much from Starmer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
:agree:
Sad but true
Europe can easily step up and cover the gaps. The UK, Sweden, Germany and France has massive military industries that can upscale. Turkey will sell to us and Poland has just spent billions modernising on south Korean equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Ukraine has held of the full might of Russia with mostly obsolete 1970s equipment and spares. Europe's 500 eurofighters and 300 f35s could take out Russias front lines and be back to watch hibs beat hearts. It's political will that's the problem. Trump might have just united Europe to levels never seen. I don't think the US has been this disliked since Vietnam
Just saw the meeting.
Like an endebted business man meeting with the mafia.
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