Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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06-01-2015, 06:39 AM
gorgie greens

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB_NO3

Rangers reject the offer from the Yank. Interesting times ahead. There is 4 different parties wanting control and no one is willing to let their share go. They are in a real mess again.

And long may it continue :greengrin
06-01-2015, 07:21 AM
EdinMike

For anyone who wants to read into it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30692822
06-01-2015, 08:19 AM
Spike Mandela

So, assets bought for less than £5.5m 3 years ago, a loss making company every year since but an £18m offer 'undervalues' the Ibrox outfit?(notice it doesn't say company:greengrin) Couldn't make it up.
06-01-2015, 08:30 AM
Smartie

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I'd tell him to get the cash up front, of course. ...and demand some vouchers for Sports Direct.

That's now, though. My point was that, for the first couple of years of the new regime, there was no commercial reason not to trade with them. To take that view just because of what Oldco did would have been plain daft IMO.

I think that would have been fair enough 2 years or so ago. They'd have to get a wee bit of a track record of paying for things - in cash, up front - before being offered credit facilities and to be fair they have been fairly cash-rich and able to pay until quite recently.

The problem for them is that their finances play out in public. Anyone could have seen that they were going to run out of money eventually although it has happened sooner than expected. We've all seen this coming so I'd be amazed if those who actually do business with them haven't.
06-01-2015, 09:38 AM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smartie

From that article.......

"I don’t understand why Hearts and almost every other club in Scotland are trying to live within their means when they should be actively pursuing the purchases of Messi, Ronaldo, Costa, etc in order to ‘break world records’, then go bust and shed the massive debt before repeating the exercise all over again."

What a difference a year makes eh? Utterly vomit inducing.

What exactly gives the Jambos the moral high-ground over their cousins on this one? That their creditors accepted f-all meaning that they achieved a CVA rather than being liquidated?

Or, the usual, total delusion, and that they have no right to pontificate to anyone.

Sorry to go off-topic but FFS that got me going!

It's the kind of long-winded, pompous, self-justifying nonsense that Shaun Lawson used to inflict on us. Has he found a new audience?

If true to form, he'll turn on them in a few months and start lecturing Celtc fans about their own club.
06-01-2015, 09:43 AM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieC

As much as it pains me to say it, I think we have to accept it's the same club. The legal aspects of it are obviously questionable but football isn't about legalities, it's about the passion. And obviously that passion (loyalty, etc.) is in the hearts and minds of the supporters.
If the same had happened to Hibs (when we were almost killed off by the Mercer take-over) I doubt there would be a single Hibs supporter out there that wouldn't have viewed a "new" Hibs entering the lower leagues as "their" team?

In the case of the SPFL, it suits them to view The Rangers as the "same" club as they can not only hold them to their footballing debts (a move which goes against the legal stance) but they can also carry out any disciplinary actions as "further" punishment (eg the 25 point penalty for a second administration).

I don't like it, and Doncaster should have been made to squirm during the interview, but I think we have to (inwardly) accept it.

Can we say then that legally it's a new entity set up in 2012, but emotionally it carries all the baggage and history of the old club?

Was thinking about this while watching AFC Wimbledon last night - unarguably a new club, but surely no one can argue with the references to the FA Cup win in 1988? That has more to do with them (and their fans) than MK Dons.
06-01-2015, 10:56 AM
ballengeich

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdinMike

For anyone who wants to read into it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30692822

An interesting phrase - "loans in the short term and possibly equity in the medium term".

Rather than rush into a share issue, is the board going to allow Ashley to grab whatever assets he can?
06-01-2015, 11:10 AM
ballengeich

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Can we say then that legally it's a new entity set up in 2012, but emotionally it carries all the baggage and history of the old club?

Was thinking about this while watching AFC Wimbledon last night - unarguably a new club, but surely no one can argue with the references to the FA Cup win in 1988? That has more to do with them (and their fans) than MK Dons.

That's a good summing up. I stay out of same club debates as people are using different meanings for the word "club".

As I understand it, in law a club is something distinct from and less formal than a registered company. Rangers wasn't a club before 2012 and isn't one now. It's a registered company operating a football business. In a court the question "Is Rangers the same beer mat as before 2012" would make as much sense.

In the less regulated environment of football discussion we generally use the word club to cover a football team, its supporters and ground.
06-01-2015, 11:16 AM
Smartie

They are the same club for me.

But the price they have to pay for that is a sentence to be spent in the lower leagues for as long as it take them to get out, and to be forever teased as to whether or not they are the same club.
06-01-2015, 11:21 AM
Bad Martini

I dreamed for years (and said they would) eventually get theirs...when it happened, elated and overjoyed doesn't even come close to describing the euphoric feeling of divine brawness I felt.

If it happens again...:not worth:aok::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cheating *******s.

ENDOF
06-01-2015, 11:33 AM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballengeich

That's a good summing up. I stay out of same club debates as people are using different meanings for the word "club".

As I understand it, in law a club is something distinct from and less formal than a registered company. Rangers wasn't a club before 2012 and isn't one now. It's a registered company operating a football business. In a court the question "Is Rangers the same beer mat as before 2012" would make as much sense.

In the less regulated environment of football discussion we generally use the word club to cover a football team, its supporters and ground.

I have to disagree.

Included in the fiver that Sevco 1690 paid for the HunBrand was 32pence for beermats.
06-01-2015, 11:56 AM
patlowe

My only real concerns in all of this are as follows - is there any turn of events in this merrydance that could allow Rangers to sort themselves out and actually improve their squad in the January window or is that completely out of the question given the circumstances? Conversely, are they likely to need to sell playing "assets" to keep things ticking over in the next few weeks while all this plays out?

I ask because, as things stand, IMO they remain the biggest barrier to us going up with Hearts.
06-01-2015, 12:08 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by patlowe

My only real concerns in all of this are as follows - is there any turn of events in this merrydance that could allow Rangers to sort themselves out and actually improve their squad in the January window or is that completely out of the question given the circumstances? Conversely, are they likely to need to sell playing "assets" to keep things ticking over in the next few weeks while all this plays out?

I ask because, as things stand, IMO they remain the biggest barrier to us going up with Hearts.

It's possible, but unlikely. 2 scenarios:-

1. they get the share issue underway, subscribed and paid for in the next 3 weeks. There are probably Stock Exchange rules on this, but I would doubt there is enough time.

2. they get megaloans from the current characters, to be repaid in the form of shares when the share issue actually happens.
06-01-2015, 12:22 PM
essexhibee

See the rumours over Rangers way that Zaliukas hasn't played because he has a serious drink problem. Off topic apologies but interesting!
06-01-2015, 12:37 PM
Ozyhibby

They are much more likely to sell than buy players.
06-01-2015, 12:59 PM
KeithTheHibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by essexhibee

See the rumours over Rangers way that Zaliukas hasn't played because he has a serious drink problem. Off topic apologies but interesting!

I had forgotten all about that horrible canut. Glad to see he is stealing a wage from them all the same.
06-01-2015, 01:04 PM
Sergey

I just caught a bit on Radio 5 Live where they interviewed some solicitor fellow who was the ex-chairman at Partick Thistle. He thinks that the current black-hole at Rangers could easily be upwards of £20M.
06-01-2015, 01:18 PM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

.....

That's now, though. My point was that, for the first couple of years of the new regime, there was no commercial reason not to trade with them. To take that view just because of what Oldco did would have been plain daft IMO.

But I thought you were on the 'same Club' side of the argument?

:wink:

Surely they should be wary, if that's the case.
06-01-2015, 01:22 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by keekaboo

But I thought you were on the 'same Club' side of the argument?

:wink:

Surely they should be wary, if that's the case.

Same club, but different company, and (most importantly for me) different people.

They were awash with cash for the first couple of years, so it would have been daft not to trade just because the old lot shafted you.
06-01-2015, 01:35 PM
southsider

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Same club, but different company, and (most importantly for me) different people.

They were awash with cash for the first couple of years, so it would have been daft not to trade just because the old lot shafted you.

I am more of a once bitten twice shy sort.
06-01-2015, 01:40 PM
Spike Mandela

Quote:

Originally Posted by southsider

I am more of a once bitten twice shy sort.

I would go as far to say anybody who trades with current Rangers setup and doesn't demand money up front or with some sort of security is a fool.

That goes for Hearts as well.
06-01-2015, 02:31 PM
lapsedhibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Same club, but different company, and (most importantly for me) different people.

They were awash with cash for the first couple of years, so it would have been daft not to trade just because the old lot shafted you.

Perhaps not so much different people as different peepul?
06-01-2015, 05:14 PM
ancient hibee

Scenario...

Ashley demands his loan back -Rangers say they don't have the money-Rangers are put into administration and King and the 3 Bears lose their stake(as does Ashley but his loan is secured and it's peanuts to him anyway) and then the free for all starts.
06-01-2015, 05:20 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancient hibee

Scenario...

Ashley demands his loan back -Rangers say they don't have the money-Rangers are put into administration and King and the 3 Bears lose their stake(as does Ashley but his loan is secured and it's peanuts to him anyway) and then the free for all starts.

They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.
06-01-2015, 05:22 PM
bingo70

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.

Do you think admin is the most likely outcome here?
06-01-2015, 05:23 PM
ancient hibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.

Ashley could obviously outbid anyone else.
06-01-2015, 05:34 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingo70

Do you think admin is the most likely outcome here?

Hard to say without looking into the heads of everyone involved. There's a lot of game playing which just flies over my head.

If I had to pick one likely scenario, it would be the one where the current Board keep topping up the cash with loans, in order to buy time until the share issue can be organised.
06-01-2015, 05:35 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancient hibee

Ashley could obviously outbid anyone else.

Even the Sun King (no relation to Dave) in Arizona?
06-01-2015, 05:39 PM
Ronniekirk

Spoke to an intelligent professional Rangers fan today who is adamant that the current management team will be emptied before the end of the month Surely they can't afford this ? Is she just at the wind up :confused:
06-01-2015, 05:49 PM
jonty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

Spoke to an intelligent professional Rangers fan today who is adamant that the current management team will be emptied before the end of the month Surely they can't afford this ? Is she just at the wind up :confused:

Or a month late to the party
06-01-2015, 07:18 PM
cabbageandribs1875

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561

Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder.

kin boooo
06-01-2015, 07:41 PM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561

Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder.

kin boooo

They are spending £1.8m a month so that money only keeps the lights on an extra couple of days.
06-01-2015, 08:23 PM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancient hibee

Scenario...

Ashley demands his loan back -Rangers say they don't have the money-Rangers are put into administration and King and the 3 Bears lose their stake(as does Ashley but his loan is secured and it's peanuts to him anyway) and then the free for all starts.

Why would a free for all start ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They wouldn't necessarily lose their stake in that scenario.

If a potential new owner offered enough, there is the possibility that all creditors and shareholders would be paid in full. It's a long shot, and a helluva gamble, but one worth considering.

Ashley offer more than was absolutely necessary ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancient hibee

Ashley could obviously outbid anyone else.

He could but will not need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561

Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder.

kin boooo

Clutching at the straws of desperation.
06-01-2015, 09:19 PM
PatHead

Dundee Utd had paid £72,000 as a downpayment. Why would they pay an extra £200,000 now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561

Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder.

kin boooo
06-01-2015, 09:48 PM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatHead

Dundee Utd had paid £72,000 as a downpayment. Why would they pay an extra £200,000 now?

Probably a discounted to get the money early a bit Like Mad Vlad taking £100k less for Wallace just before the brown stuff landed

In the meantime

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6s2ghRCYAAsxJD.jpg
06-01-2015, 09:51 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

Probably a discounted to get the money early a bit Like Mad Vlad taking £100k less for Wallace just before the brown stuff landed

In the meantime

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6s2ghRCYAAsxJD.jpg

Read it again[emoji6]
06-01-2015, 10:17 PM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Read it again[emoji6]

I only read I once - that is all it deserved - what did I miss ?
06-01-2015, 10:20 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

I only read I once - that is all it deserved - what did I miss ?

United were ordered to pay 200k. They had already paid 72k. So, as PH says, why another 200k?

Some discount [emoji6]
06-01-2015, 10:27 PM
monktonharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Can we say then that legally it's a new entity set up in 2012, but emotionally it carries all the baggage and history of the old club?

Was thinking about this while watching AFC Wimbledon last night - unarguably a new club, but surely no one can argue with the references to the FA Cup win in 1988? That has more to do with them (and their fans) than MK Dons.

your confusing me, baggage.....old history.......same baggage.....same history.......same old songs......same old rangers fans.......different, or shall we say newco.?
06-01-2015, 11:27 PM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

United were ordered to pay 200k. They had already paid 72k. So, as PH says, why another 200k?

Some discount [emoji6]

If remember correctly they agreed to pay £72k but never got around to it, were subsequently ordered to pay £200k or face a tribunal. where it may have gone against them and today (as far as I am led to believe) were offered a full and final settlement of £200k.

The discount is assessed versus the probable settlement that would be imposed by any tribunal.

Thomson is not daft.
06-01-2015, 11:35 PM
kaimendhibs

Tin hat on. No idea why they would, but feel Sevco are encouraging an insolvency event! They seem to be intent on self destruction, part of a bigger plan perhaps?
07-01-2015, 05:01 AM
banchoryhibs

A hun colleague was at Ibrox yesterday to purchase some testimonial ticket - they would only accept cash - no card payments!

They are indeed in deep doo doo.

I would not be surprised if some pre-pack administration deal was round the corner. If they are struggling to pay HMRC what chances of paying the next lot of wages?

:cb
07-01-2015, 07:07 AM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

If remember correctly they agreed to pay £72k but never got around to it, were subsequently ordered to pay £200k or face a tribunal. where it may have gone against them and today (as far as I am led to believe) were offered a full and final settlement of £200k.

The discount is assessed versus the probable settlement that would be imposed by any tribunal.

Thomson is not daft.

It was a tribunal that decided on 204k.

I suspect that the BBC report is wrong, and that DU actually paid the balance yesterday, ie 132k.
07-01-2015, 07:20 AM
Ronniekirk

New Head Coach

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonty

Or a month late to the party

I know it's only the Sun Reporting it ,but saying Ian Cathro being discussed as Rangers New Head Coach Currently Assisstant at Valencia .Confirms what my rangers supporting colleague tod me yesterday .Is this forward planning and some speculation or is there something in rumour that management change will happen before the end of the month
07-01-2015, 07:26 AM
Newry Hibs

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30706619

Derek Llambias assures SPFL that there is no administration looming.

So that's OK then. Thread can be closed.
07-01-2015, 07:28 AM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It was a tribunal that decided on 204k.

I suspect that the BBC report is wrong, and that DU actually paid the balance yesterday, ie 132k.

I suspect you are correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

I know it's only the Sun Reporting it ,but saying Ian Cathro being discussed as Rangers New Head Coach Currently Assisstant at Valencia .Confirms what my rangers supporting colleague tod me yesterday .Is this forward planning and some speculation or is there something in rumour that management change will happen before the end of the month

I think the most likely change before the end of the month will be an insolvency event.
07-01-2015, 07:51 AM
greenlex

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

Probably a discounted to get the money early a bit Like Mad Vlad taking £100k less for Wallace just before the brown stuff landed

In the meantime

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6s2ghRCYAAsxJD.jpg

is this like when Hearts said they were self sufficient?
07-01-2015, 08:04 AM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30706619

Derek Llambias assures SPFL that there is no administration looming.

So that's OK then. Thread can be closed.

TBH, he couldn't say anything else. If administration was likely, the SPFL would be well down the list of people he would tell.
07-01-2015, 08:20 AM
StevieC

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

TBH, he couldn't say anything else. If administration was likely, the SPFL would be well down the list of people he would tell.

Just google "Derek Llambias Newcastle United" to find out how he conducted himself during his time at Newcastle, and what the fans thought of him.

Rangers are stating that they need fresh funding by the end of January, so any statement saying that administration is unlikely is based on the presumption that they receive fresh funding.
07-01-2015, 08:50 AM
Callum_62

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieC

Just google "Derek Llambias Newcastle United" to find out how he conducted himself during his time at Newcastle, and what the fans thought of him.

Rangers are stating that they need fresh funding by the end of January, so any statement saying that administration is unlikely is based on the presumption that they receive fresh funding.

:agree:

Good enough for the SPFL though

Imagine the uproar if they were deducted 25 points and missed the play offs
07-01-2015, 08:56 AM
Spike Mandela

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callum_62

:agree:

Good enough for the SPFL though

Imagine the uproar if they were deducted 25 points and missed the play offs

I know a few Rangers fans who would happily take 25point admin if it meant starting this car crash again, lessons learnt.
07-01-2015, 08:59 AM
Jack Hackett

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I know a few Rangers fans who would happily take 25point admin if it meant starting this car crash again, lessons learnt.

The old saying about leopards changing their spots comes to mind
07-01-2015, 09:00 AM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by banchoryhibs

A hun colleague was at Ibrox yesterday to purchase some testimonial ticket - they would only accept cash - no card payments!

They are indeed in deep doo doo.

I would not be surprised if some pre-pack administration deal was round the corner. If they are struggling to pay HMRC what chances of paying the next lot of wages?

:cb

The rangers bumping their majesty again? Surely not. Whatever will their "loyal" fans make of this?

Practically treason against all they seem to stand for to rob the very institution that is at the heart of all they sing about, not once but twice.
07-01-2015, 09:04 AM
Peevemor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Hackett

The old saying about leopards changing their spots comes to mind

Or their spats... :greengrin

http://pdtest2.241webhosting.com/wp-...opard-skin.jpg
07-01-2015, 09:10 AM
Callum_62

I can almost feel the social unrest.
07-01-2015, 09:16 AM
Dan Sarf

Rangers midfielder to follow Macleod?
Rangers midfielder Arnold Peralta has been linked with a move to Brentford, following in the footsteps of former teammate Lewis Macleod.
With Rangers needing to raise funds due to their financial woes, it is likely that they will have to offload players this transfer window.
Peralta is a strong, quick winger, who will inject some added pace to the team.

(From "Beesotted", Brentford fans site)
07-01-2015, 09:39 AM
PatHead

What a brass neck!

"Rangers rejected American Robert Sarver's £18m buy-out offer but then asked the banker for a short-term loan to help them out of their financial troubles. (Star)"

:faf:
07-01-2015, 09:39 AM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlex

is this like when Hearts said they were self sufficient?

Indeed !

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

TBH, he couldn't say anything else. If administration was likely, the SPFL would be well down the list of people he would tell.

The dreaded vote of con fidence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I know a few Rangers fans who would happily take 25point admin if it meant starting this car crash again, lessons learnt.

Would that be lessons learned for a second time ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Sarf

Rangers midfielder to follow Macleod?
Rangers midfielder Arnold Peralta has been linked with a move to Brentford, following in the footsteps of former teammate Lewis Macleod.
With Rangers needing to raise funds due to their financial woes, it is likely that they will have to offload players this transfer window.
Peralta is a strong, quick winger, who will inject some added pace to the team.

(From "Beesotted", Brentford fans site)

One of quite a few I suspect.
07-01-2015, 10:31 AM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

..........
I think the most likely change before the end of the month will be an insolvency event.

You have previous in the Hearts debacle for insisting they would be liquidated.

Don't put your head on the line again.
07-01-2015, 12:11 PM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by keekaboo

You have previous in the Hearts debacle for insisting they would be liquidated.

Don't put your head on the line again.

I have previous for lots of things, including having an opinion.

I think if you check you will see that I did not insist they would be liquidated what I often said was “keep the faith the big L is coming”.

In actual fact I was merely 36 hours away from being correct.

Should I take you last line as a reprimand ?

If it is okay with you I will retain my option to have an opinion and, if I chose to do so, may post those opinions on this forum.

You, of course, have the option not to read them.

Going back to what I actually said in this thread, it was that, in my opinion, the most likely thing to change before the end of this month was an Insolvency event.

Some may think I am hedging my bets rather than sticking my head above the parapet !
07-01-2015, 12:38 PM
KeithTheHibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

I have previous for lots of things, including having an opinion.

I think if you check you will see that I did not insist they would be liquidated what I often said was “keep the faith the big L is coming”.

In actual fact I was merely 36 hours away from being correct.

Should I take you last line as a reprimand ?

If it is okay with you I will retain my option to have an opinion and, if I chose to do so, may post those opinions on this forum.

You, of course, have the option not to read them.

Going back to what I actually said in this thread, it was that, in my opinion, the most likely thing to change before the end of this month was an Insolvency event.

Some may think I am hedging my bets rather than sticking my head above the parapet !

I fail to see the difference.
07-01-2015, 02:14 PM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

I have previous for lots of things, including having an opinion.

I think if you check you will see that I did not insist they would be liquidated what I often said was “keep the faith the big L is coming”.

In actual fact I was merely 36 hours away from being correct.

Should I take you last line as a reprimand ?

If it is okay with you I will retain my option to have an opinion and, if I chose to do so, may post those opinions on this forum.

You, of course, have the option not to read them.

Going back to what I actually said in this thread, it was that, in my opinion, the most likely thing to change before the end of this month was an Insolvency event.

Some may think I am hedging my bets rather than sticking my head above the parapet !

A bit touchy aren't you.

:greengrin
07-01-2015, 03:05 PM
Ozyhibby

People get things wrong all the time. It's no big deal.
I've been overly optimistic about Hibs prospects for 5 years now. I'm big enough to admit I was wrong.
This year I'm on track to call it spot on although there is still time for us to go on a great run and win the play offs to promotion and make me look overly pessimistic this year.
C'mon Hibs, make a dick of me again.
07-01-2015, 03:39 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatHead

What a brass neck!

"Rangers rejected American Robert Sarver's £18m buy-out offer but then asked the banker for a short-term loan to help them out of their financial troubles. (Star)"

:faf:

I can see their point.

They're trying to buy time, by whatever means possible. If that means asking the Sun King for a loan, in the hope that he will buy into the share issue, it's worth a shot.

That said, if I were him, I'd tell them to stick it where his basketball team doesn't shine.
07-01-2015, 04:49 PM
ancient hibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Even the Sun King (no relation to Dave) in Arizona?

I read that Ashley's net wealth is £2.5 billion which makes it all more surprising that he can be bothered with a tuppence ha'penny outfit up here.On the other hand it's maybe doing that sort of thing that's made him worth £2.5 billion in the first place.
07-01-2015, 09:34 PM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancient hibee

I read that Ashley's net wealth is £2.5 billion which makes it all more surprising that he can be bothered with a tuppence ha'penny outfit up here.On the other hand it's maybe doing that sort of thing that's made him worth £2.5 billion in the first place.

:agree:

I really have no idea what life is like with that amount of wealth :boo hoo: but they do say that very rich people don't get that way by being reckless with their money.
08-01-2015, 07:44 AM
AndyM_1875

Sarver increases his bid to £20m and offers short term credit help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30722155

You would think they'll accept...... but of course being this whole Rangers pantomime...... who knows?
08-01-2015, 08:01 AM
Callum_62

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

Sarver increases his bid to £20m and offers short term credit help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30722155

You would think they'll accept...... but of course being this whole Rangers pantomime...... who knows?

really do wonder what the motivations are

will definately get them out of the immediate large hole they are in

Hopefully it drags on till much later in the transfer window

Altho, dont imagine due diligence etc will be a short procedure
08-01-2015, 08:10 AM
Ronniekirk

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

Sarver increases his bid to £20m and offers short term credit help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30722155

You would think they'll accept...... but of course being this whole Rangers pantomime...... who knows?

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle
08-01-2015, 08:13 AM
Moulin Yarns

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle

Love this talk of 'debt free'. He is lending them £6.5 million, that has to be repaid, so is a debt!!
08-01-2015, 08:17 AM
andrew70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle

Or Sarver is Ashley's man and his way of ensuring he keeps control. I certainly don't believe that Sarver is the Saviour as if he was, where has he been up until now? David Robertson and whoever else has apparently "alerted" him to this situation have been well aware of whats been going on for years. The Rangers fans who think this man is coming along and is going to make everything so much better for them are very much mistaken in my opinion.
08-01-2015, 08:19 AM
Ronniekirk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callum_62

really do wonder what the motivations are

will definately get them out of the immediate large hole they are in

Hopefully it drags on till much later in the transfer window

Altho, dont imagine due diligence etc will be a short procedure

Due diligence is a fine principall but as we have seen with this ongoing shabby fiasco it doesn't seem toga e stopped people getting control who have turned out to be fraudsters and don't have the Clubs best interests at heart Whyte Green Easdales and Ashley have hardly taken the club forward Plenty are and have made money out the Clubs predicament and no one to date has been able to stop that .Whether this new guy can is not clear and he may be willing to bail them out with a view to getting money back with interest further down the line and allowing as he puts it local business men to become involved like the three bears for eg but you have to wonder at this stage why he would be such a Philanthropist so would expect this to run a while yet
08-01-2015, 08:26 AM
Kavinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew70

Or Sarver is Ashley's man and his way of ensuring he keeps control. I certainly don't believe that Sarver is the Saviour as if he was, where has he been up until now? David Robertson and whoever else has apparently "alerted" him to this situation have been well aware of whats been going on for years. The Rangers fans think this man is coming along and is going to make everything so much better for them are very much mistaken in my opinion.

Don't know likes..
Think it's far too early to be that definite in an opinion.

At the end of the day, multiple American franchise owner (2?!), commercially aware, and a Banker to boot.

My thoughts are that He'll be looking at Rangers in much the same way the Glazers looked at Man U.
08-01-2015, 08:28 AM
AndyM_1875

Sarver has no connection to Mike Ashley, andrew.

The Bluenoses I talk to think this season is gone anyway. Hearts consistency and Hibs ruthlessly dismantling Rangers twice has brought that fact crashing home to any doubters. They'll be in the Championship for another year on account of the simple fact that there are two better teams than them. Most accept that they are an absolute basket case right now both on and off the park. The bright spot is that the high contracts of Black, Shiels, Miller and McCulloch (players with no resale value) all run out in June.

If they are bought over and the correct work is done both behind the scenes and in terms of proper player recruitment (signings below a fixed level and all aged under 25) it gives then the chance to restructure and go for the Championship title in 2016.
08-01-2015, 08:31 AM
Spike Mandela

Rangers fans only see £ signs and will get behind anybody the media attatches the biggest number to.

This guy is the latest saviour as was Bill Miller. Once he started 'looking under the bonnet' he walked away. Only a fool would throw money at Rangers imo.
08-01-2015, 08:35 AM
AndyM_1875

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

but you have to wonder at this stage why he would be such a Philanthropist so would expect this to run a while yet

I don't think he's a philanthropist at all Ronnie. He's an ambitious sports club owner who is perhaps looking to pick up on the cheap a club with a strong identity that will one day compete in the group stages of the Champions League. With the best will in the world that's only going to happen with 2 clubs in Scotland.
08-01-2015, 08:44 AM
Kavinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

He is clearly serious about wanting Iin ,and appears to have the money and business acumen to be a serious player ,but if there has been no discussions until the last few weeks it's hard to see how Ashley will just accept being bought out with first offer . If we assume if he is prepared to walk away he will want top Dollar
The offer of immediate payment of 6 point 5 million to get them debt free is in the form of a Loan so without knowing conditions attached to that it wouldn't make them Debt free
But a. Beginning to wonder if our 4 0 humiliation of them has been a wake up call and the Board realise that to get promotion they need this new investment and need to getthieract together . Or is it just a case that it's become clearer what a financial mess they are in and everyone who wants a piece of the action if they return to top league are now starting to show there hand now so that if they aren't eventually at the top table so to speak they can at least make a financial profit out of whoever does come out on top in current power Struggle

Its the 2nd offer, as he's upped it to 20mil from 18m, but in any event, it's for the board to recommend the offer, and if they do put it to all shareholders to vote on, with a requirement of 75% in favour to pass it.

Ashley owns c9%.
08-01-2015, 01:41 PM
CropleyWasGod

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...battle-4941494
08-01-2015, 02:28 PM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...battle-4941494

As I said the most likely change this week is an insolvency event
08-01-2015, 03:21 PM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...battle-4941494

The Daily Ranger are now interviewing one of their journos as if he was an expert commentator? Is this a new low?

The irony is that Mike Ashley's wealth genuinely is 'off the radar' - has Jackson noticed?
08-01-2015, 03:24 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

The Daily Ranger are now interviewing one of their journos as if he was an expert commentator? Is this a new low?

The irony is that Mike Ashley's wealth genuinely is 'off the radar' - has Jackson noticed?

Jackson's take on the situation is as valid as anyone else's. No-one outside the Big House actually knows what's going on.

I was quite sympathetic to Jackson in Armageddon 1. He was one of the few of the MSM who were actually making noises about Whyte.
08-01-2015, 03:48 PM
Jack Hackett

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Jackson's take on the situation is as valid as anyone else's. No-one outside the Big House actually knows what's going on.

I was quite sympathetic to Jackson in Armageddon 1. He was one of the few of the MSN who were actually making noises about Whyte.

:agree:

In a different league from his former colleague 'Jabba' Traynor. I wonder what the chubby freak is up to now?....Not that I care. I just hope it's something in line with his talents. Cleaning the bogs at a MaccaD somewhere hopefully
08-01-2015, 04:02 PM
Ozyhibby

Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Hackett

:agree:

In a different league from his former colleague 'Jabba' Traynor. I wonder what the chubby freak is up to now?....Not that I care. I just hope it's something in line with his talents. Cleaning the bogs at a MaccaD somewhere hopefully

Pr man for the 3 bears I think
08-01-2015, 04:22 PM
Deansy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30700561

Rangers have received some much-needed funds in the shape of cash owed to them by Dundee United for Charlie Telfer.
Just over £200,000 was paid by the Tannadice club on Tuesday followinga long battle over compensation for the 19-year-old midfielder.

kin boooo

Not just that but the Hun actually had the temerity to send Utd a REMINDER !! Behaviour akin to Nick Leeson sending a letter to 'Barings Bank' asking what's happened to his pension !! !!

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/inde...owtopic=277948

Personally, if I was Stephen Thompson I'd plead 'Cash-flow problems/poverty' for the courts to arrange repayment at a piddling amount a week - a fiver would do !!
08-01-2015, 04:29 PM
Springbank

Keith Jackson's piece.. Rangers had owners called green and whyte and now they have a NOMAD called Ireland
:aok:
08-01-2015, 04:39 PM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Jackson's take on the situation is as valid as anyone else's. No-one outside the Big House actually knows what's going on.

I was quite sympathetic to Jackson in Armageddon 1. He was one of the few of the MSM who were actually making noises about Whyte.

Most of the noises were of him back pedalling furiously after he realised that the guy he introduced to the Rangers fans as the Messiah wasn't quite all he seemed...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/craig-whyte-profile-the-scots-billionaire-1076110
08-01-2015, 05:16 PM
Smartie

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Most of the noises were of him back pedalling furiously after he realised that the guy he introduced to the Rangers fans as the Messiah wasn't quite all he seemed...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...onaire-1076110

That article is one of my favourite "archive" newspaper articles of all time.

I wonder how Jackson feels when he reads that one back?
08-01-2015, 05:27 PM
Spike Mandela

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smartie

That article is one of my favourite "archive" newspaper articles of all time.

I wonder how Jackson feels when he reads that one back?

Any credibility Jackson had exited stage left the day he wrote that piece.

The term "off the radar" will follow him to his grave.:greengrin
08-01-2015, 07:59 PM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smartie

That article is one of my favourite "archive" newspaper articles of all time.

I wonder how Jackson feels when he reads that one back?

I wonder the same about Jim Traynor and his ludicrous keyboard warrior spell as Director of Comms at Der Nueur Hun. So seething, so self-righteous, and so short lived once the people he was defending turned on him.
08-01-2015, 08:11 PM
BoomtownHibees

Offering a £6.5m loan that needs to be repaid within 90 days? Where is that money going to come from, season ticket money??
08-01-2015, 09:29 PM
ScottB

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomtownHibeys

Offering a £6.5m loan that needs to be repaid within 90 days? Where is that money going to come from, season ticket money??

I believe it would be converted into shares...
08-01-2015, 10:11 PM
NadeAteMyLunch!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

I wonder the same about Jim Traynor and his ludicrous keyboard warrior spell as Director of Comms at Der Nueur Hun. So seething, so self-righteous, and so short lived once the people he was defending turned on him.

Ahh good old Jim Traynor, where is he hiding these days? Horrible creature
08-01-2015, 10:14 PM
The_Exile

Duff and Phelps called in by Ashley doing the rounds on social media.
08-01-2015, 10:21 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Exile

Duff and Phelps called in by Ashley doing the rounds on social media.

Not sure that would be allowed.

Even if it is, I'm sure HMRC and others would race them to the Court.
08-01-2015, 10:49 PM
PatHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Not sure that would be allowed.

Even if it is, I'm sure HMRC and others would race them to the Court.

Maybe they are getting confused with USC who have appointed Duff and Phelps as administrators. (They are owned by Ashley)
08-01-2015, 10:49 PM
portycabbage

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Exile

Duff and Phelps called in by Ashley doing the rounds on social media.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...points-4943555

Called into USC though!
09-01-2015, 07:55 AM
Callum_62

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...945747#rlabs=4

"Now he could be ready to weave his magic again as the Godfather of Govan in what would be one of the boldest and most audacious appointments in the history of the Scottish game."

:cb
09-01-2015, 08:30 AM
Spike Mandela

The Daily Record has had a major Rangers story every day for 3 years. Even when in 3rd division the paper has been the most loyal of servants and whilst other tabloids backed off a little the Record always elevated a Rangers story to back page headlines.

It truly has shown it's colours as a Rangers fanzine and a paper of 'ra peepel'
09-01-2015, 08:41 AM
ballengeich

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Keith Jackson's take on the current situation:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...battle-4941494

The article contains a specific statement that Rangers need £6.5m cash within 48 hours. I can't think of anything that size which could be due in such a short time, so let's see what happens.
09-01-2015, 08:54 AM
grunt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballengeich

The article contains a specific statement that Rangers need £6.5m cash within 48 hours. I can't think of anything that size which could be due in such a short time, so let's see what happens.

It's a classic "football-writer-submits-business-story" article.
Pure guff and speculation.

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