Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

i'm kinda hoping we are already in the QF of the SC :greengrin

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I can confirm, that we are defo in the QF.nae gauruntees on progressing though:greengrin but it could be a good day oot!:wink:

btw, can any of our more in the know gadges explain this. what does it mean to be temporary in administration/ shirley yer in admin, or yer no in administration? Is the job of the administrator(s) not to get as much money back into the fund of a company on the slide? and hand out as much as possible to the creditors, thereby paying off the debts of the said company? or is it somewhat different in Lithland?. the board of hmofc have stated on their official site that they are in constant contact with ukio bankas, yet the high heidyins in Lithuania have stated that there is no trading allowed.

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Originally Posted by Fat Penlon

Maybe but I'm not sure much else will happen? Ukio have a security over tynecastle so as long as hearts keep to the terms of that then they will be fine surely? Everyone who had a mortgage with northern rock when it collapsed didn't have to payback the full amount of their loan or give up their house did they?

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Northern Rock example is different as they were bailed out and continue to trade.

Although the point about Tynie is spot on, Ukio don't own Tynie, they have 1st Charge on the property so as long as Hearts keep up there mortgage payments it can't be repossessed.

Where I reckon they will have a problem, if the club have an Ukio bank account, anything in there will surely be lost also they don't have Ukio or Vlad to run to should they need a short term loan to see them over til there next home game, jumble sale, cake bake.

Sounds like the running of Ukio has not all been above board and a criminal investigation could take place, surely the 1st to be hammered would be Romanov.

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Originally Posted by monktonharp

surely different circumstances? northern rock ended up being nationalised by the "british" gvt, naw? the Liths are hardly likely to nationalise hmofc are they?

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Substitute Edinburgh City Council for British government and you might yet see some political "support" being created for them. The unofficial extension of their debt to the council and council funded feasibility study a while back are indicators of some of the politicians ability and desire to confuse their support for a football team with their actual responsibilities.

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Originally Posted by macca70

Northern Rock example is different as they were bailed out and continue to trade.

Although the point about Tynie is spot on, Ukio don't own Tynie, they have 1st Charge on the property so as long as Hearts keep up there mortgage payments it can't be repossessed.

Where I reckon they will have a problem, if the club have an Ukio bank account, anything in there will surely be lost also they don't have Ukio or Vlad to run to should they need a short term loan to see them over til there next home game, jumble sale, cake bake.

Sounds like the running of Ukio has not all been above board and a criminal investigation could take place, surely the 1st to be hammered would be Romanov.

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But if (and I'm completely out of my depth here....) Tynecastle has been offered as security for other debts (which seems to be the case here), and not just its own purchase, would that not be called in if those other debts are unpaid?

E.g.: your home is not at risk if you keep up payments on it. If you ofer it as security for some other business project, and it fails leaving you lumbered with debt, your home is at risk??? As I say, out of my depth, but would that not be the case?

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Originally Posted by macca70

Northern Rock example is different as they were bailed out and continue to trade.

Although the point about Tynie is spot on, Ukio don't own Tynie, they have 1st Charge on the property so as long as Hearts keep up there mortgage payments it can't be repossessed.

Where I reckon they will have a problem, if the club have an Ukio bank account, anything in there will surely be lost also they don't have Ukio or Vlad to run to should they need a short term loan to see them over til there next home game, jumble sale, cake bake.

Sounds like the running of Ukio has not all been above board and a criminal investigation could take place, surely the 1st to be hammered would be Romanov.

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That's not how it works in this case. Hearts don't make mortgage payments to Ukio and they don't owe them any money (at least nothing substantial). Hearts owe UBIG £22m+ and have granted the security of their assets to UBIG. That is, if Hearts fail to pay their debts to UBIG within the terms of their agreement UBIG can repossess or force the sale of those assets. On the other hand Hearts can not sell their assets off unless UBIG approve, which they would only do if their debt is settled.

UBIG in turn owe money to Ukio and as security on that debt they have passed over part of the security they hold over Hearts' assets - but only the security, not the debt. That means that Hearts can stick by their agreement with UBIG, but are powerless to retain their assets if UBIG don't keep up their repayments to Ukio. If UBIG were to repay Ukio in full HoMFC's debt would remain the same, but the security would revert to UBIG.

One knock-on effect is that UBIG will almost certainly be restricted from selling HoMFC without settling their debt to Ukio first which means they need to get at least £7m out of any such sale.

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Originally Posted by monktonharp

btw, can any of our more in the know gadges explain this. what does it mean to be temporary in administration/ shirley yer in admin, or yer no in administration? Is the job of the administrator(s) not to get as much money back into the fund of a company on the slide? and hand out as much as possible to the creditors, thereby paying off the debts of the said company? or is it somewhat different in Lithland?. the board of hmofc have stated on their official site that they are in constant contact with ukio bankas, yet the high heidyins in Lithuania have stated that there is no trading allowed.

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https://newsclient.omxgroup.com/cdsP...ssageId=666885

The administrator has been given 6 days to give his recommendations on the Ukio Bankas which suggests to me minds are already made up and the Bank will be amalgamated in the Siauliu Bank which is part owned by the European Central Bank.

I am sure an audit of ALL accounts ,loans and transactions will take place securing the funds of genuine local people and businesses.

Accounts of crooks, money launderers and the like will be suspended and bad debts to the Romanov " Empire " will be called in. :thumbsup:

UBIG and the Yams will then be treated like any other business by a responsible bank --- the Knackers Yard !

The only question would be is how little the BAnk would be willing to accept for the Yam Dome and Yam F C ?

Latest fro, twitter for non twits :wink:
Evening News Sport ‏@edinburghsport
We've spoken to finance expert Neil Patey, ex advisor to Roman Abromovich, about #UkioBankas, #Ubig #Hearts. He says: There could be trouble

http://i47.tinypic.com/zn1yq8.jpg


http://i49.tinypic.com/14ndcll.jpg


http://i45.tinypic.com/2nrmwjc.jpg

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Originally Posted by greenginger

https://newsclient.omxgroup.com/cdsP...ssageId=666885

The administrator has been given 6 days to give his recommendations on the Ukio Bankas which suggests to me minds are already made up and the Bank will be amalgamated in the Siauliu Bank which is part owned by the European Central Bank.

I am sure an audit of ALL accounts ,loans and transactions will take place securing the funds of genuine local people and businesses.

Accounts of crooks, money launderers and the like will be suspended and bad debts to the Romanov " Empire " will be called in. :thumbsup:

UBIG and the Yams will then be treated like any other business by a responsible bank --- the Knackers Yard !

The only question would be is how little the BAnk would be willing to accept for the Yam Dome and Yam F C ?

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Maybe we should put in a wee/tiny offer:greengrin

The way I see it is that Ukio aren't totally skint (yet) and the administrators have been appointed mainly because of the dodgy conduct of the bank's directors (with Vlad pulling the strings I'd imagine).

Reports suggest that UBIG are also in trouble (and haven't lodged accounts for years) and I reckon that without their "pet" bank they'll quickly collapse taking our pink neighbours with them. Given the sums invloved in the dealings between HMFC and UBIG, any new bank that takes over will either be very difficult to deal with for anyone wanting to but the football club or they'll take the first offer going just to get rid of it.

I don't think there'll be any middle ground.

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Originally Posted by vince1973

Latest fro, twitter for non twits :wink:
Evening News Sport ‏@edinburghsport
We've spoken to finance expert Neil Patey, ex advisor to Roman Abromovich, about #UkioBankas, #Ubig #Hearts. He says: There could be trouble

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Well Patey is saying the opposite in the Scotsman, "fans don't need to worry too much at this point."

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Well Patey is saying the opposite in the Scotsman, "fans don't need to worry too much at this point."

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...although another article speculates:

THE company that’s in trouble [Ukio Bankas] is not the one that’s lent £24.4 million to Hearts, so on the face of it that’s good.Hearts have confirmed that there is some debt provided by Ukio Bankas which they are now negotiating with as to what that means and whether that has to be repaid.
If it does need to be repaid, the question is where do they find the resources?
If they can’t, is there any security – eg, Tynecastle football stadium – which might have been pledged as security on the loan?
If there’s debt within Hearts held by the bank then there could be trouble. There’s a possibility, depending on the terms of that debt, that it could be recalled, and repaid as soon as possible, and Hearts may not have the resources to cover it.

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Well Patey is saying the opposite in the Scotsman, "fans don't need to worry too much at this point."

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Personally I hope Patey is correct, he does seem to know what he's on about, especially within eastern european financial sector, heres hoping anyways :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Well Patey is saying the opposite in the Scotsman, "fans don't need to worry too much at this point."

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If this was Hibs I would be extremely concerned - although to be fair I would have been concerned for the last seven (ish) years.

What I dont get is that the Yamtards seem to think 'Its ok we are self sufficient now'

Firstly, are they really? I remember it being a long process for Hibs to be 'self sufficient' if we even are at all now. Is it not more true that they are self sufficient as long as their borrowing facilities remain favourable? Surely the collapse of UKIO is going to change all that and yet, hardly a peep out of them. Deserve whats coming IMO.

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

UBIG in turn owe money to Ukio and as security on that debt they have passed over part of the security they hold over Hearts' assets - but only the security, not the debt. That means that Hearts can stick by their agreement with UBIG, but are powerless to retain their assets if UBIG don't keep up their repayments to Ukio. If UBIG were to repay Ukio in full HoMFC's debt would remain the same, but the security would revert to UBIG.

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Thanks Caversham really getting an understanding on this from you and others(by the way where is Part Time Supporter these days ?).

A couple of questions though : How does debt at this level work ? Is there a repayment schedule whereby UBIG could default or does the debt, while accruing interest, just get serviced when UBIG can pay something towards it ?

For arguments sake if UKIO ceased all trading today and vanished what would happen to the security ?

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Originally Posted by EuanH78

If this was Hibs I would be extremely concerned - although to be fair I would have been concerned for the last seven (ish) years.

What I dont get is that the Yamtards seem to think 'Its ok we are self sufficient now'

Firstly, are they really? I remember it being a long process for Hibs to be 'self sufficient' if we even are at all now. Is it not more true that they are self sufficient as long as their borrowing facilities remain favourable? Surely the collapse of UKIO is going to change all that and yet, hardly a peep out of them. Deserve whats coming IMO.

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On the basis of their last accounts Hearts are still far from self-sufficient. Because of their chronic losses they have no reserves or credit-worthiness and they need to get their total wages bill down to less than £2m just to break even (that's SFL1 levels). Their massive debt remains, and if that is called in for any reason they're Donald Ducked.

Hibs have made losses over the last couple of years but the healthy profits from earlier years provided some reserves (they had about £1m in the bank at the start of this season) so they are self-suffient for the time being, but it's getting tight. They have improved the infrastructure and reduced the cost base though, but it needs to start being reflected on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Thanks Caversham really getting an understanding on this from you and others(by the way where is Part Time Supporter these days ?).

A couple of questions though : How does debt at this level work ? Is there a repayment schedule whereby UBIG could default or does the debt, while accruing interest, just get serviced when UBIG can pay something towards it ?

For arguments sake if UKIO ceased all trading today and vanished what would happen to the security ?

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How the debt works depends on the agreement between the bank and the company. If it's a straight loan there will be a repayment schedule similar to a mortgage and if UBIG defaulted Ukio would eventually force the sale of assets or call in the liquidators. It could also be an overdraft arrangement whereby the overdraft has a fixed ceiling and when it reaches that no more funds are available. However, interest would still be accruing so the balance would automatically exceed the ceiling and Ukio would eventually force the sale of assets...etc... That latter arrangement is effectively what UBIG provided to the yams and the ceiling has now been hit.

For your second question, Ukio couldn't just vanish - they have creditors and investors who would want their money out, so a liquidator would be called in (no scope for an administrator if they ceased trading) and he would chase up all the debts. The security would either be enforced by the sale of assets - in which case HoMFC's debt level would fall but they'd have no stadium or other assets, or it would be paid off by UBIG in which case HoMFC's debt level would stay the same but the security would revert to UBIG. There is the possibility of the liquidator selling the debt to another bank but the secondary nature of the security and the dubious health of the debt probably makes that less lucrative than the other courses of action.

http://m.15min.lt/en/article/busines...ons-527-306235

The picture at the bottom of that article reminds me of when Northern Rock were going bust and there were queues all the way up Castle Street of folk waiting to get in to empty there current and savings accounts.

Thanks Caversham.

I knew the second question was a bit of a reach on my part.

I read the book 'The Big Short' a couple of years ago and always remember the part that said a California fruit picker had a $750,000 mortgage, wonder if UKIO provided it.

Hearts are the fruit pickers of Scottish football.

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Originally Posted by EuanH78

If this was Hibs I would be extremely concerned - although to be fair I would have been concerned for the last seven (ish) years.

What I dont get is that the Yamtards seem to think 'Its ok we are self sufficient now'

Firstly, are they really? I remember it being a long process for Hibs to be 'self sufficient' if we even are at all now. Is it not more true that they are self sufficient as long as their borrowing facilities remain favourable? Surely the collapse of UKIO is going to change all that and yet, hardly a peep out of them. Deserve whats coming IMO.

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As long as they ... win the Scottish cup, get drawn against an EPL side in the Europa League, fleece the muppets for £1M+ of donations, defer their tax bills and get their squad to give up their bonuses ... every season ... aye, they're totally self sufficient. :rolleyes:

Anyone else read fatt Foulkes comments in todays news? Is he on another planet or is it me? He paints a very rosey picture of the current situation!

Lord George Foulkes, who helped broker the deal to bring Romanov to Hearts, said it was essential that there was transparency in the relationship between Hearts and the other business interests of its majority shareholder.
“It’s all very complicated and one of the things we need to do is to resolve the position regarding Mr Romanov, Ukio Bankas and UBIG.
“It’s just not clear. The positive thing is that Hearts are an asset now where a few months ago it was a
liability.
“Now it’s moving towards breaking even in a profitable situation with the high-paid players moving on and income coming in from the share issue, people buying tickets and the cup final coming up.
“It’s an asset that any administrator or anyone making decisions about it would want to continue to operate.
“The problem is that we need to see if we can disentangle the club and finances from Mr Romanov’s and his problems.”

How is the bit in bold a good thing for hearts?

Is this the armageddon that was sure to follow Rangers demise? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Fat Penlon

Anyone else read fatt Foulkes comments in todays news? Is he on another planet or is it me? He paints a very rosey picture of the current situation!

Lord George Foulkes, who helped broker the deal to bring Romanov to Hearts, said it was essential that there was transparency in the relationship between Hearts and the other business interests of its majority shareholder.
“It’s all very complicated and one of the things we need to do is to resolve the position regarding Mr Romanov, Ukio Bankas and UBIG.
“It’s just not clear. The positive thing is that Hearts are an asset now where a few months ago it was a
liability.
“Now it’s moving towards breaking even in a profitable situation with the high-paid players moving on and income coming in from the share issue, people buying tickets and the cup final coming up.
“It’s an asset that any administrator or anyone making decisions about it would want to continue to operate.
“The problem is that we need to see if we can disentangle the club and finances from Mr Romanov’s and his problems.”

How is the bit in bold a good thing for hearts?

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The bit in bold is a load of p1sh.

Amidst all our glee, let's spare a thought for the ordinary Lithuanians who were conned into putting their savings into the Bank. I hope that the Lithuanina Govt will protect the ordinary depositors.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

As long as they ... win the Scottish cup, get drawn against an EPL side in the Europa League, fleece the muppets for £1M+ of donations, defer their tax bills and get their squad to give up their bonuses ... every season ... aye, they're totally self sufficient. :rolleyes:

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You forgot to add avoid paying any interest at all on their £25m debt. They have managed it so far but I don't think it's going to be possible going forward.:greengrin

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

As long as they ... win the Scottish cup, get drawn against an EPL side in the Europa League, fleece the muppets for £1M+ of donations, defer their tax bills and get their squad to give up their bonuses ... every season ... aye, they're totally self sufficient. :rolleyes:

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Thing is even after this they're not self sufficient, they've still said they've not got enough to get them through to the end of the season!

Time for STF to step in and repay Hearts for what FWM tried? One city, one team anyone? :greengrin:greengrin

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

You forgot to add avoid paying any interest at all on their £25m debt. They have managed it so far but I don't think it's going to be possible going forward.:greengrin

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and don't forget the "new" tax bills that start in May. Don't think they will have enough budget to run a boys club. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by vince1973

Latest fro, twitter for non twits :wink:
Evening News Sport ‏@edinburghsport
We've spoken to finance expert Neil Patey, ex advisor to Roman Abromovich, about #UkioBankas, #Ubig #Hearts. He says: There could be trouble

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http://youtu.be/TnfKmNRfLYU

http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/2932...end-201329326/


Lithuanian Bank not wasting any time on pulling the trigger on Vlad. :thumbsup:


Notice the name of the Head Hauncho pulling the trigger.

Vitas Vasiliauskas, thats the same name as the guy Vlad brought in to make the Mega stand happen and still noted as a director of HOMFC. Must be a different guy though, this one is a lawyer and Vlad's man was a waterpool attendant.

May'be the name is just like Jimmy Smith in Lith. Land. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by greenginger

I requested up to date and complete figures of ALL sums outstanding by HOMFC on 28th Jan. They have 20 working days to comply, so a few days more.

I think I'll give them a call tomorrow just to gee them up. :wink:

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Called the Council F O I department, they are still waiting on the information from the admins. but don't anticipate any hold ups this time.

They suggested I call back at the beginning of next week. I said I would, but that it might be too late as we would be discussing the debts of a corpse. :greengrin

I'm not sure the girl from F O I knew what I was talking about.