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GDP is not the only measure of success ....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvvMdUra...jpg&name=large
You can’t just compare us with Ireland.[emoji849]Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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Or anywhere else apparently. Too many variables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Definitely not England either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
J
Greece is, or was, acceptable as long as it's caveated with "without the sun"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Mind, that's probably changed now.
And yet it was argued that comparing us to Germany for the purposes of a discussion on whether refusing another referendum was reasonable or not was decried.
Is it legitimate to compare Scotland/UK with other countries or is it not?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvqyCFwW...png&name=smallQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
You can compare all you like but the formation of a unified German state and the UK were quite different.Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
So it is legitimate to compare our position with that of the German Lander. Good, that seems clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
https://www.cityam.com/revealed-brit...e-world/?amp=1
The UK is genuinely world leading. At last.
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I've just finished a novel called Scotched Nation, a fictional account of post referendum political shenanigans. Worth a read as it's all plausible.
https://twitter.com/eu_commission/st...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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Another brexit benefit. We're not included on that list!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
A small mercy.[emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
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Hopefully this fud gets emptied next time round. Attachment 26731
https://twitter.com/Innealadair/stat...WVlviuEug&s=09Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
An English man in full Scottish Uncle Tom gear.
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From a family of planters, the apple never falls far from the tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
That was from a couple of months ago and the full context was that Brexit and Scottish independence were both divisive and that nationalism didn’t provide the answers to the challenges of today, let alone tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Still, it will bring up a lot of the Yes brethren to full-on beelin’ :greengrin
It does touch upon an interesting point though.
Scotland, as many would define it is a rather arbitrary and new ‘thing’. The idea of nation states is very recent in the history of mankind, the idea of liberal democracy even newer. Do we really think that nationalism has much in the way of a shelf life? It seems to be one of the biggest barriers to addressing global problems and likewise one of the biggest causes.
Which version of "nationalism" do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
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Please don’t tell me you’re talking about “ethnic” and “civic”. Please...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Cole Hamilton has no problem with nationalism. He has UK flags all over his constituency shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
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Does he? That's quite funny. I suppose he would argue that he doesn't buy into the whole 'reject separation makes you a British nationalist' thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I assume he is your MSP, is he any good? He seems to have boosted the Lib Dem vote whilst there. A very different demographic from when Lord James was repping at Westminster :greengrin
Quite in insulting response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I was asking what version you meant.
There is a spectrum, you've dismissed a couple of versions already.
What version of nationalism do you think the SNP seeks?
Which versions "aren't the answer" in a global economy
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That was what Cole-Hamilton said. I said something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
As for 'versions', I don't have a version. And I certainly don't speak for SNP members, I probably subscribe to Foucault in that it is post-modernist and a social construction.
As for "an insulting response", oh please. I asked a question sincerely hoping you weren't going to roll out the old stuff about 'civic nationalism' and how it''s actually okay. On reflection, you tend to be a better poster than that so maybe my alarm was unfounded.
But I'm genuinely curious - do you think that nationalism or indeed the nation-state offers a solution to the challenges our planet faces? Surely that's looking backwards not forwards?
Never met the man so couldn’t give a personal opinion. Most people I know who have had dealing with him are that he is a typical Tory who wears yellow to get elected. That’s not to say he hasn’t sometimes been helpful. He helped a mate with a small issue that he had. Nothing major but not nothing. I’m sure every MSP would have a similar story. Personally I know he would not be the type of person I could ever take to based on how people have described him to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
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Is there anything but the nation state on offer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
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I'm with Charles Kettering on this one (even though he would be considered an environmental war criminal in our age)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
"Our imagination is the only limit to what we can hope to have in the future".
I think the important point is that we all too often entwine ourselves to old and/or established ideas, and mistrust the new ones. It should be the other way around. I would guess the vast majority of posters on this thread were born no more than thirty years after the end of the second world war. Two devastating wars in the space of thirty years and a good few centuries of regular armed conflict preceding that, including the Thirty Years War, possibly the worst in relative terms. Yet western and central Europe has enjoyed relative peace since then because the actors abandoned elements of the nation-state to bind economically and socio-politically.
Which is what the SNP continually and repeatedly has promised to rejoin. Unlike the Tories and Starmer's Labour. Are you sure you're supporting the right party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
The EU was far from perfect as an institution, though I firmly voted for Remain. But to take your point, I never heard a single thing from the SNP or the Yes lobby in 2014, or since, that reassured me we wouldn't be at risk of being absolutely ragdolled like Greece was.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
The European situation is a mess for us IMO. But again, we chouldn't think of it as static. There's a natural evolution to bring in Turkey, the South Caucasus states and the North African nations. alternatively, there is acknowledging what's true - that the EU as it stands is a hotch-potch of arrangements, involving some, none or all of membership of the Council of Europe, the OSCE, the customs union, the Euro etc etc.
We were talking about hate earlier and something that really angers me about Brexit was that if Scotland did become independent, we wouldn't have the same heft as the UK did have. That seems unfair but we have ended up trying to make the most of it. And I think we can.
Anyway, you should be smoking a cigar and sipping a brandy. Do you not keep telling me Starmer goes back on his word? So when he says Brexit is closed, that surely means when he gets the keys to Number 10 on the Thursday we will be getting paid in Euros by the weekend :greengrin
There is in this country. The Sovereign Individual. With the Nat-C rally yesterday and Farage on newsnight attacking the Tories for not being "isolationist" (he means racist) enough they seem to be doubling down on their favoured distraction. The other option, leaving aside the theoretical, is conglomerates of nation states acting together. The biggest problem the planet has is climate change, some politicians in our govt think fracking is the answer to that, which is just another distraction put out as they don't govern the country in good faith. The answer to any global problem is co-operation, nation states are perfectly capable of that if they have good intentions towards their own populaces. That's not something I see in the current UK. The more wrecking the better for them and the more sovereign individuals can disentangle themselves from the social contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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Well of course I hope this is the case. But I'd rather not vote for someone who feels he has to lie in order to win over the electorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2f7c9618d1.jpg
Support for Indy remains strong.
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https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...s-poll-4155666
SNP set to lose seats though. Down to 40.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Some other polls showing SNP losing up to 23 seats with all but a complete wipeout in Glasgow. With as much importance put on these polls I don't get how they get away with being so different. They're effectively meaningless.
Yougov much worse for snp, a large poll aswel over 3.5kQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23542575.new-yougov-mrp-poll-predicts-snp-wipe-glasgow/
Humza Yousaf would lose nearly all of his Glasgow and Lanarkshire MPs, with his party winning 27 constituencies, down considerably from the 48 won under Nicola Sturgeon in 2019.
Losers would include the party’s deputy leader at Westminster, Mhairi Black, with her Paisley and Renfrewshire South seat heading back to Labour
Ipsos tend to be most accurate though? Yougov not exactly useless though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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They are good for trends and poll of polls better. They matched the English local elections very well. Some on here said yougov was pretty accurate for Scotland. I think snp will come back a bit nearer election but you would be mad to bet against them losing seatsQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
I think it’s almost impossible for them not to lose seats. 2019 was a cracking result for the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
And 2021 Holyrood election was also an excellent result.
It will be very difficult for the SNP to match those results.
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There's levels though. Lose one or two understandable, lose 10 and you can't dress it up as anything other than a disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Problem is all polls are travelling one way and haven't found their bottom so far. They need to and start turning back soon
I agree that they need to get a grip of the situation. It’s improving over last couple of weeks but they’ll need to wait until end of Police investigation. They still have 18 months till an election though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Trident: MoD confirms more than 50 radiation leaks this year | The National
The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has revealed there were 15 recorded radiation leaks at Coulport and a further 43 at Faslane in 2023 as of April – but said none were considered “serious”.
pheeeww, thank goodness they weren't serious though :agree:
Surprised they even tell us.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...02dba49cf0.jpg
From yesterday’s Ipsos poll.
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Anyone got an update on the police investigation into SNP finances? When will Nicola be sentenced?
Still trying to work out who’s Amazon vouchers?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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Surprised it's not been mentioned on here yet - AUOB calling Humza 'reactionary' and 'contemptuous'.
Anyone able to say whether that's fair comment? It's certainly strong language to use about our First Minister.
article in todays Herald, i won't believe it until state TV report it
Is Douglas Ross happy to see Scottish economy success?: Ian McConnell | HeraldScotland
https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...UA&oe=6474AD4A
Can’t see how Black would lose that. She’s a very popular MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
J
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65719108
You can have devolution so long as you do the exact same thing as us.[emoji849]
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Equity investment can be a good thing but it can be truly awful, it depends what we are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
For example, many successful startups may have relied on venture capital to get up and running. Conversely, it was very fashionable for private equity to buy care homes (across the U.K.) twenty years ago. That was often disastrous and led to appalling outcomes.
That’s simply because equity investment is intended to generate profit. You can’t blame it for that, it doesn’t pretend otherwise.
*Does not apply to viewers in WalesQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Attachment 26768
https://www.gov.wales/new-drinks-container-return-scheme-2025-will-help-wales-improve-world-leading-recycling-ratesQuote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
England and Northern Ireland won't collect glass for some reason.
And we aren't allowed to, but Wales can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Unfortunately the Scottish Government are trying to introduce policy and systems that will improve life and the environment in Scotland that are better than in the rest of the UK, the worst thing is that they're doing it on purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
I don't think glass should be included blanket. Pubs already collect almost 100% of glass, in homes its 74%, in cities its higher. Roadside/bottle bank system is already good
The top 3 countries in Europe for glass recycling rates all have Roadside collection. Only 3 of the top 10 do DRS
European container glass federation say the new DRS scheme could jeopardise a working system
https://m.packaginginsights.com/news...g-systems.html
I believe for plastic bottles and cans it should definitely come in though
https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/stat...1YvaOFcqA&s=19Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It's all very confusing. The Tories up here demanded that glass was included, then the Tories in England are only allowing Scotland to do this if glass isn't included because of conflicts with the internal market. Yet, at the same time Wales are allowed to include glass within their scheme.
It's almost like this is nothing to do with environmental concerns or internal markets but just the UK putting Scotland in it's place.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65731807
Confirmed that Scotland is allowed to pilot the English scheme with glass excluded. Sounds like the poll tax all over again.
This is where I couldn't be a politician, if I was yousaf I'd tell them to blow it out their arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Anyone heard from the Labour Party yet? Surely they would want to defend devolution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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Unfortunately Yousaf doesn’t know his arse from his elbow. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
Blow it oot yer elbow doesn't really carry the message as well [emoji1787]Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...us-devolution/
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NopeQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
A conference organised by a very right leaning American organisation, just imagine if a Chinese (or in days gone by) a Russian organisation tried to do similar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
THE Scottish Labour politicians who forged the devolution settlement would be “horrified” to hear their party’s position on the constitution today, former deputy first minister John Swinney has said.
The SNP MSP told Labour’s constitution spokesperson, Sarah Boyack, that the party’s former “commitment to the concept of self-government in Scotland [was] being shredded in front of our eyes” during a debate in Holyrood.
Keith Brown, the SNP’s depute leader, had tabled a motion calling on the Scottish Parliament to express “alarm at what it sees as the UK Government’s escalating disrespect for the devolved settlement”.
READ MORE: Lorna Slater: UK Government showing 'disregard for devolution' with DRS conditions
Brown’s motion listed a raft of examples of bills which he asked parliament to note were “proceeding without heed to the devolved legislatures”, including the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, and the Elections Act 2022.
It also specifically noted the Sewel Convention, saying that it “is now regularly breached by the UK Government”. This convention says that the Westminster government will “not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament”.
Speaking in the debate, former deputy first minister Swinney said there had been talk of cementing the convention in law, but instead “we got some token words that Westminster wouldn’t normally legislate over the heads of the Scottish parliament in the 2016 Scotland Act”.
“But look what’s happened since,” Swinney went on.
“It is now commonplace for this parliament’s views to be ignored by the United Kingdom government. That is not the settlement that was crafted in 1998.
“If we do not wake up to the threat that is coming our way as a consequence of all of this, then we will be witnessing the dismantling of the effective competence of this parliament.”
Swinney recalled having been a member of the House of Commons from 1997 to 2001 and helping to legislate for the creation of the Scottish Parliament.
He mentioned Donald Dewar, Scotland’s first first minister, and Henry McLeish, who he said had done the “heavy lifting”, adding: “I think they would be horrified by what has now become the Labour Party’s opinion in Scotland.”
Swinney said he had previously heard a “commitment to the concept of self-government in Scotland, and that is being shredded in front of our eyes”.
Boyack, Scottish Labour’s constitution spokesperson, accepted part of Brown’s motion, telling Holyrood: “The Tories have put massive pressure on the devolution settlement, particularly following Brexit.”
But she argued that the Scottish and UK governments were not working well together and that was the true issue at play.
Meanwhile, Boyack claimed Labour was focused on “rebuilding our relations with our European neighbours”.
The Scottish Tories’ constitution spokesperson, Donald Cameron, also accepted there was an issue with the Sewel Convention, but did not expand on his reasoning.
“I have no doubt that Sewell is under strain and needs rethinking,” he said.
Instead, the Tory MSP took aim at what he called “loose talk about a full-frontal attack” on devolution from pro-independence politicians.
“This is all they have left,” Cameron said. “The sound you hear is the noise of empty, empty rhetoric. The resounding gong and clanging symbol of nationalist grievance.”
Closing the debate, Independence Minister Jamie Hepburn said that the Sewel Convention was ignored by the UK Government as soon as it was “convenient”.
He also took aim at Labour, telling MSPs: “We have the absurdity of a Labour First Minister of Wales standing up for Scottish devolution more than the Scottish Labour party are prepared to do.”
Putting forward his motion, Brown said it was not just "bolshie Jock grievance mongers, as people like Jacob Rees-Mogg might describe us" that were raising concerns about the undermining of devolution.
"For example, former Labour first minister Henry McLeish, who I think would be appalled by at the absences on the Labour benches tonight, branded Tory moves to curtail Scottish ministerial engagement abroad as an attack on devolution."
Brown called on “all those who believed in devolution from the start and still do to unite and repatriate the power that’s been stolen from this parliament and the people of Scotland”.
In full, the motion read:
Protecting Devolution and the Scottish Parliament.
That the Parliament expresses alarm at what it sees as the UK Government’s escalating disrespect for the devolved settlement; highlights the report of the Parliament's Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, The Impact of Brexit on Devolution, which identified "increased tension within the devolution settlement" since the UK’s departure from the EU; believes that the Sewel Convention is now regularly breached by the UK Government; underlines that legislative consent was withheld by the Scottish Parliament in relation to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, the Environment Act 2021, the Subsidy Control Act 2022, the Elections Act 2022, the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 and the Trade (Australia and New Zealand) Act 2023; considers that the Procurement Bill, the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill, and the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill are all proceeding without heed to the devolved legislatures; expresses profound disappointment in the use of an order under section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998 to, it considers, veto devolved legislation; expresses alarm at what it sees as the Secretary of State for Scotland's apparent unilateral rewriting of the agreed rules regarding requests for exemptions from the market access principles contained in the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020; considers all of these actions to be part of a pattern of undemocratic behaviour of attacks on the devolution settlement and the Scottish Parliament, and believes that these actions demonstrate the vulnerability of the Scottish Parliament while constituencies like Clackmannanshire and Dunblane, and Scotland as a whole, are under what it sees as UK Government control.
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Apologies, the above is a cut and paste job from the National on todays debate in Holyrood.
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https://twitter.com/thesnp/status/16...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...g-30124853.amp
Tennents says the tories changes to the DRS is unworkable by excluding glass it penalises products in cans.
Yousaf said the same thing yesterday. It hurts Scottish producers more than others. As usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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If tennents move away from aluminium to glass then we all lose, don’t we? Aluminium is best for environment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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Is that not the plan, then they can blame the SNP and claim devolution isn't working. Their pals at the BBC and in print media will help spin it for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://twitter.com/humzayousaf/stat...dxJXScFNwz8V4AQuote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
And Labour silent on this attack on Scottish jobs?
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Sarwar won't want to spoil his chances of becoming mayor of Scotland.:hilariousQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
7 of the top 10 glass recyclers in Europe don't have DRS. People unbelievably still buy cans in those that have can DRS.
Glass is a success story in Europe without DRS a good article on it
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ene...e-dont-fix-it/
A deposit on one-way glass packaging is today used in just six EU member states: Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany and Lithuania. In these countries, DRS schemes manage only 5% of the waste glass generated. According to the latest figures, Croatia, Estonia and Lithuania are also among the nine countries with the lowest recycling rates in Europe. In addition, the average cost of the DRS is €213 per tonne of waste collected. The average cost of EPR systems across the same countries is €94 per tonne. A DRS for one-way glass packaging results at best in marginal gains but at a very high cost.
Meanwhile, EPR systems, such as kerbside collections, bottle banks and other single stream glass collection systems, mean that all glass container types are effectively collected and recycled at the end of their life. Eight out of the 11 Member States with a glass recycling rate above 80% operate an EPR-only system
Which may be good for them but we are managing only 67% recycling for glass so clearly we need to do better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Eu rates are a good 10% ahead of us.
Everyone talks about saving the environment but as soon as they can see a potential inconvenience there is pushback.
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The annoying thing is the Tories in Scotland AND Westminster voted for and intended glass to be included in the DRS scheme... wonder why they've changed their mind re the Scottish one?
Scottish Tories pushed hard for glass to be included. This is all about cutting back on devolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
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Norways recycling rate rose 20% to 95% after DRS was brought. Glass wasn't included as they think kerbside is better and know the highest rates in Europe are kerbside, it also shot up to 90 odd %Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I'm all for anything that works, I'm all for plastic and cans DRS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Not everywhere has kerbside glass recycling. I've got a trip to recycling centre for tomorrow with 2 boxes of glass (coffee and jam jars included 😉)
Doesn’t really matter about whether glass is right or not. It’s why can’t glass be included? What is the UK govt objection to glass over plastic or aluminium? How does including glass break the internal market law but the other two don’t?
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https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...yQ&oe=647DEA62BET etfair 02"">
:thumbsup:
https://www.politico.eu/article/bori...trade-deal-uk/
How the UK sold out Scottish farmers.
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I've been saying that is the solution for years. It works in more mountainous regions than here.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
£470 million for a mile is that a typo
Probably not unfortunately. Civil engineering is expensive business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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That looks fantastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Something like this would have been done on the continent in the 70's.
There can be zero complaints about Hs2 or crossrail anymore surely, the billions of growth will be worth much more per pound than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It'll be worth every penny of the billion+ pounds it eventually costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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Doing nothing is not an option unless we want to close of a large chunk of the country. Infrastructure is expensive but necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Greens have entered the chat. I'm personally all for infrastructure projects, but I am pro hs2, crossrail, tram ect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
But their are loads that were going mental about English projects that I'm sure will be quiet if they are pro this
I never travel that route but think the money well spent if I don’t have to listen to constant updates about it being closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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I know where S27 is coming from in a way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Which budget is it coming out of?
It definitely needs done, 1.3 million vehicles use it annually.
I was pro HS2 when I thought it would come a good way north, less so now. I'm still bitter that the promises of getting on a train at Euro Central half way along the M8 and getting off in Paris were broken! .... not that I hold a grudge! :rofl:
yeah, they could have put up 50 meters of the structure below Samsons Ribs in the Queens/Kings park in Edinburgh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
They chose to cover the place in wire mesh. :confused:
Is that in Holyrood Park? Bloody royal family not willing to upkeep their garden!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
It's a bit of a blow for the landowner who owns Old Military Road. He's been paid nearly £1million for allowing it to be used over the last five or six years.
Un aller simple pour Motherwell, si vous plaît.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
it’s Historic Scotland , a Scottish Government body than manages Holyrood Park.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns