Hamas attack on Israel

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

This or the Bin Laden raid isn't in anyway comparable to October 7th . These three were terrorist soldiers and a general who helped murder innocent civilians.

Israel are saying they were undercover police in a war zone. I don't believe them I think it's probably a war crime against a squad who commit war crimes by using hospitals so freely. If the had army uniform on and killed then in the hospital I wouldn't have a problem with it. I think it's disgusting to compare it to October the 7th, they may have been Jews who have a terrorist government but they were innocent civilians not soldiers

There have been hundreds of war crimes in the genocide Israel is perpetrating, this is low down the list compared to shooting journalists with sniper rifles

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I deliberately refrain from posting on these threads as posters can sometimes take away views/opinions that were not intended.
I apologise if my clumsy language made it look like I was comparing the October Hamas attack as being equal to the killing of the three Palestinian fighters, that's absurd and not what I meant. I was looking at it from the "legality" side.
Just my unsolicited opinion, if Israeli soldiers/special forces can walk in to a hospital outwith the State of Israel, and kill unarmed men without reproach from other countries, then where is this all going to end?
I'm well aware this conflict has went on for an age and won't end anytime soon, but it never will as long as these acts are not only carried out, but also never called out.

Edited to add, I only mentioned Bin Laden as that was a state sponsored execution. It still doesn't sit right with me that there was apparently little consideration to detain/arrest once his location was made known. Apparently, if captured alive it may have sparked further terrorist events. I understand that, but we'll now never know.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Yeah, not disagreeing with what you've said. I'm well aware the UK has been involved in plenty of unsavoury political and military endeavours, some even "illegal". But, I can't recall a time our "special forces" have invaded a foreign land, dressed as medical staff and patients to execute targets knowing full well they'd be seen on camera.
It's a two finger salute to the rest of the world.
I'm not arguing that a state shouldn't protect itself from aggressors but I doubt it this was the right way to do it and I get the impression Israel doesn't care about the optics anymore.

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check out 'Gangs and Counter Gangs' by Major Frank Kitson - it's basically a manual for armed forces on how to pretend to be civilians whilst really being extremely effective terrorists, causing maximal chaos and destruction in the process. Forged in Ireland, still being used in Palestine, amongst many other places.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

I deliberately refrain from posting on these threads as posters can sometimes take away views/opinions that were not intended.
I apologise if my clumsy language made it look like I was comparing the October Hamas attack as being equal to the king of

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don't worry, Stairway and Ozyhibs will keep you right :aok:

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Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

don't worry, Stairway and Ozyhibs will keep you right :aok:

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You quoted too soon, fat fingers and all that...

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

This or the Bin Laden raid isn't in anyway comparable to October 7th . These three were terrorist soldiers and a general who helped murder innocent civilians.

Israel are saying they were undercover police in a war zone. I don't believe them I think it's probably a war crime against a squad who commit war crimes by using hospitals so freely. If the had army uniform on and killed then in the hospital I wouldn't have a problem with it. I think it's disgusting to compare it to October the 7th, they may have been Jews who have a terrorist government but they were innocent civilians not soldiers

There have been hundreds of war crimes in the genocide Israel is perpetrating, this is low down the list compared to shooting journalists with sniper rifles

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Why was one of them running about carrying a wheelchair, did they intend to take someone to interrogate or was it in case one of them got injured and they couldn’t leave them behind, just thought the wheelchair carrier was a bit strange.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

Why was one of them running about carrying a wheelchair, did they intend to take someone to interrogate or was it in case one of them got injured and they couldn’t leave them behind, just thought the wheelchair carrier was a bit strange.

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I'm not excusing it I think it's abhorrent but I was just saying it wasn't comparable to October 7th. He's said it wasn't his intention and I probably misunderstood. It's bizarre around it looked like a scene from a movie not a special forces op.

I don't believe anything Israel say and I don't believe they were just plain clothes police officers making it legal. I do think it's low down on their crimes though, nothing compared to shooting kids with rocks in their hands, pouring concrete into Palestinian drinking water reserves or building homes or private Palestinian property ect

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I'm not excusing it I think it's abhorrent but I was just saying it wasn't comparable to October 7th. He's said it wasn't his intention and I probably misunderstood. It's bizarre around it looked like a scene from a movie not a special forces op.

I don't believe anything Israel say and I don't believe they were just plain clothes police officers making it legal. I do think it's low down on their crimes though, nothing compared to shooting kids with rocks in their hands, pouring concrete into Palestinian drinking water reserves or building homes or private Palestinian property ect

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I think sometimes people confuse comparison of category with comparison of value or severity - i understood the point as being a comparison of the former, i.e. israelis engaging in acts of terrorism a la hamas.

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Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

I think sometimes people confuse comparison of category with comparison of value or severity - i understood the point as being a comparison of the former, i.e. israelis engaging in acts of terrorism a la hamas.

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There is zero comparison in category or value. It's like saying shoplifting and murder can be grouped as they are both crimes. It's poor and it downplays the evil of October the 7th whataboutery. Killing 3 terrorist isn't terrorism they were right to kill them, dressing as civilians in to kill terrorists in a war zone is a war crime though. As for Bin Laden Pakistan wasn't giving him up so they US did what it had to my hard doesn't bleed for monsters who slaughter thousands of civilians. My heart wouldn't bleed if Putin or Netanyahu got the same

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

This or the Bin Laden raid isn't in anyway comparable to October 7th . These three were terrorist soldiers and a general who helped murder innocent civilians.

Israel are saying they were undercover police in a war zone. I don't believe them I think it's probably a war crime against a squad who commit war crimes by using hospitals so freely. If the had army uniform on and killed then in the hospital I wouldn't have a problem with it. I think it's disgusting to compare it to October the 7th, they may have been Jews who have a terrorist government but they were innocent civilians not soldiers

There have been hundreds of war crimes in the genocide Israel is perpetrating, this is low down the list compared to shooting journalists with sniper rifles

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Without wishing to understate the horrors of that day, they were not all civilians who were killed by Hamas fighters.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Without wishing to understate the horrors of that day, they were not all civilians who were killed by Hamas fighters.

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Jeezo your right the soldiers were legitimate targets imo but 400 bairns at a rave old people and kids in their homes cars and in the street were definitely not. As in Gaza the horror is through the civilians murdered not the soldiers.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

This or the Bin Laden raid isn't in anyway comparable to October 7th . These three were terrorist soldiers and a general who helped murder innocent civilians.

Israel are saying they were undercover police in a war zone. I don't believe them I think it's probably a war crime against a squad who commit war crimes by using hospitals so freely. If the had army uniform on and killed then in the hospital I wouldn't have a problem with it. I think it's disgusting to compare it to October the 7th, they may have been Jews who have a terrorist government but they were innocent civilians not soldiers

There have been hundreds of war crimes in the genocide Israel is perpetrating, this is low down the list compared to shooting journalists with sniper rifles

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Last time I looked, the west bank wasn't 'officially' a war zone, although Israel would probably disagree.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Last time I looked, the west bank wasn't 'officially' a war zone, although Israel would probably disagree.

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It's a part of Israel to the Israelis but the international court of justice see Israel as the occupying power. Under the deal with the PA Israel forces are allowed to enter the West Bank. They are wanting a similar deal in Gaza post war meaning they can enter with forces for security reasons. Its terrible they can enter and a two state solution and sovereign territory is a must. Some including me say it hasn't stopped being a war zone and Israel are the occupying force

The debate about the hospital now seems to be whether it was IDF or ISA (the police) that formed the raid. The IDF soldiers aren't allowed to hide who they are, whereas police can go undercover. Israel at first said it was a joint operation but are now saying no IDF were on the ground. They usually don't justify their war crimes

Houthi’s naval blockade on Red Sea continues despite them not having a navy. Strikes have had zero impact.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-and-us...snt-sf-twitter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://youtu.be/5IvdffjL5h0?si=8MazLRJgR6uefCNf

The queers for Palestine group that were singing for the Houthi’s to turn the ships round might have other things to say to the the Houthi’s. Evil barbaric ****bags

https://today.lorientlejour.com/arti...en-source.html
13 sentenced to death for homosexuality in Yemen

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The queers for Palestine group that were singing for the Houthi’s to turn the ships round might have other things to say to the the Houthi’s. Evil barbaric ****bags

https://today.lorientlejour.com/arti...en-source.html
13 sentenced to death for homosexuality in Yemen

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absolutely rubbish take. i know it's annoying when 'right on' groups get a hold of the wrong end of a stick then start waving it about, and of course, it is absolutely horrific and inexcusable that people should be executed for who they love - but if you or i had been born in Yemen, there's every chance we would be of the same opinion as these extremists. The place has been being destroyed by the Saudis for over a decade, in an already highly unstable part of the world.

Whilst I absolutely agree that there will be evil barbaric ****bags amongst the Houthis, to tar them all with that brush absolutely reeks of colonial hubris. the fact is, we're sitting comfortably behind our computers/on our phones at home or on a bus or whatever, whilst they are reacting to having the **** bombed out of them for decades in a region that we seem absolutely hell bend on keeping totally destabilised. We (i.e. the west) have played a significant, most likely decisive part in creating the environment in which extremism, fundamentalism and barbarism thrive.

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Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

absolutely rubbish take. i know it's annoying when 'right on' groups get a hold of the wrong end of a stick then start waving it about, and of course, it is absolutely horrific and inexcusable that people should be executed for who they love - but if you or i had been born in Yemen, there's every chance we would be of the same opinion as these extremists. The place has been being destroyed by the Saudis for over a decade, in an already highly unstable part of the world.

Whilst I absolutely agree that there will be evil barbaric ****bags amongst the Houthis, to tar them all with that brush absolutely reeks of colonial hubris. the fact is, we're sitting comfortably behind our computers/on our phones at home or on a bus or whatever, whilst they are reacting to having the **** bombed out of them for decades in a region that we seem absolutely hell bend on keeping totally destabilised. We (i.e. the west) have played a significant, most likely decisive part in creating the environment in which extremism, fundamentalism and barbarism thrive.

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White guilt explaining away **** who are about to murder homosexuals. We would want gay people murdered too if we were born there, what a load of mince. Ukrainians have been bombed and had genocide committed on them for a decade but I wouldn't use that as any justification if they decided to commit human rights violations to this scale. Rwandans, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Moari all could all say we were treated like dirtand dehumanised so we'll murder homosexuals

When does a government or army ever become accountable for their actions or do the just hit its our colonisers fault. Houthis aren't the Yemeni people obviously, the same way Hamas isn't Palestinians or Netanyahu the Israelis or Jews. Houthis have been committing genocide on the Yemenis for decades. Both sides the Saudis and the Houthis are abhorrent with no respect for human rights

Not that Israel cares but another probable breach of International Law.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68249962

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286

Another one for Netanyahu and his murderous regime to be proud of.

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Originally Posted by DaveF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286

Another one for Netanyahu and his murderous regime to be proud of.

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A six year old murdered by the Israeli Army.

They must be so proud.

All that's left if to flatten Rafah and that's what they intend to do next. Never mind the fact that up to 1.5m people are crammed in or around there as it is (was) a safe zone.

Never mind though. The US and co have said they are 'concerned' if this happens. That'll worry the nazi wannabes in Israel.

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Originally Posted by DaveF

All that's left if to flatten Rafah and that's what they intend to do next. Never mind the fact that up to 1.5m people are crammed in or around there as it is (was) a safe zone.

Never mind though. The US and co have said they are 'concerned' if this happens. That'll worry the nazi wannabes in Israel.

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“Israel has the right to defend itself” said the blind, stupid, deaf and moronic among us. Hell mend every last one of them

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Originally Posted by DaveF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68261286

Another one for Netanyahu and his murderous regime to be proud of.

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How anyone can hear stories like this and continue to back Israel I will never understand.

They are quite literally getting away with murder. Not only getting away, being aided and abetted by our wonderful leaders, who are apparently happy to excuse genocide when it's being committed by an ally.

The older I get the more I understand why people don't want to vote any more - Biden, Starmer etc all have blood on their hands.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

“Israel has the right to defend itself” said the blind, stupid, deaf and moronic among us. Hell mend every last one of them

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Isreal “had” the right to defend itself and try to rescue hostages taken by Hamas, however the cruel and barbaric way they have gone about it their attacks have lost any sympathy I originally had.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Isreal “had” the right to defend itself and try to rescue hostages taken by Hamas, however the cruel and barbaric way they have gone about it their attacks have lost any sympathy I originally had.

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They were not “defending” themselves. They were an oppressive force who were attacked by those they oppressed. In such a way that it was then easy to accede the moral high ground to the Israelis. They then retaliated in the most horrendous manner. And continue on their genocidal mission. With very little comeback from anyone.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

They were not “defending” themselves. They were an oppressive force who were attacked by those they oppressed. In such a way that it was then easy to accede the moral high ground to the Israelis. They then retaliated in the most horrendous manner. And continue on their genocidal mission. With very little comeback from anyone.

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So the original Hamas attack was acceptable…on women, children, rape and execution. However the Israeli response has been 10 fold worse. I don’t have the answer, but unimpressed with the support being provided by the US and UK for Israel.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

So the original Hamas attack was acceptable…on women, children, rape and execution. However the Israeli response has been 10 fold worse. I don’t have the answer, but unimpressed with the support being provided by the US and UK for Israel.

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Where have I claimed it was acceptable?

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Where have I claimed it was acceptable?

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Ok…I stand corrected, I obviously misunderstood your post. Personally I think the deaths caused by Hamas and Israelis abhorrent

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Ok…I stand corrected, I obviously misunderstood your post. Personally I think the deaths caused by Hamas and Israelis abhorrent

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The attacks on civilians, by both sides, deserve to be condemned, as they are, as you quite rightly point out, abhorrent. However, people who tried to justify the initial Israeli action as them defending themselves doesn’t wash with me. Hamas’ original attack and the response are just the 2 latest episodes in a conflict that been going on for decade.

The Israelis successfully rescued two hostages in Gaza... and managed to kill over 60 Palestinians, the majority of whom were innocent civilians, while doing so.