Coronavirus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I'm not so sure about that.

I think the UK is in the "fortunate" position to be a couple of weeks behind a few other countries that are starting to loosen restrictions. I think we might give it a few weeks to see what happens in those countries and if it looks ok then we might start to loosen things.

End of May is my bet.

---

I'd agree. End of May will see an official easing.

In many ways I actually think the gradual 'unofficial' easing of the lockdown many not be a terrible thing. It's definitely a little bit busier out and about. I passed B&Q this morning and the queue was a mile long as an example. We have a communal green space in our street; a couple of our neighbours sat there yesterday having a drink in the sun, they maintained a good distance between households but it isn't really allowed. They asked us to join them and we declined but I was far more tempted than I let on.

I suppose the point I am making is that we don't want a repeat of the scenes from just before lockdown with thousands of people all heading for beauty spots. With a sudden 'freedom' you risk that happening. If there is a little bit of give in the rules, where common sense allows, for the next few weeks it might just help avoid that happening. I think shops like B&Q and garden centres reopening and getting people used to queuing and so on will help as more non eseesntial businesses reopen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

354 new cases in Scotland and 47 deaths reported since yesterday.

---

I still don’t get why still so many new daily cases. Unless they are mostly key workers or care homes?

If you have become infected in the past 5 weeks when you don’t need to be at work then you’re either really unlucky or an erse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I'd agree. End of May will see an official easing.

In many ways I actually think the gradual 'unofficial' easing of the lockdown many not be a terrible thing. It's definitely a little bit busier out and about. I passed B&Q this morning and the queue was a mile long as an example. We have a communal green space in our street; a couple of our neighbours sat there yesterday having a drink in the sun, they maintained a good distance between households but it isn't really allowed. They asked us to join them and we declined but I was far more tempted than I let on.

I suppose the point I am making is that we don't want a repeat of the scenes from just before lockdown with thousands of people all heading for beauty spots. With a sudden 'freedom' you risk that happening. If there is a little bit of give in the rules, where common sense allows, for the next few weeks it might just help avoid that happening. I think shops like B&Q and garden centres reopening and getting people used to queuing and so on will help as more non eseesntial businesses reopen.

---

I can’t see it not being eased come 9th May. Too many other countries have started relaxing little bits here and there. Obviously not massive changes but definite easing.

That is still 2 weeks away. The mood music has changed in the past 2-3 days and will continue. Businesses will start to run out of cash. People will see hospital numbers and ICU trends coming down.

Public are starting to “self ease” anyway. Roads definitely busier. I suspect some people are seeing other family members.

Stockbridge is rammed today. Coffee shops opened back up and there’s at least 30-40 people hanging about on the road outside Cowan & Sons. Looks like a mini gala day. ****ing twats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibby Bairn

I still don’t get why still so many new daily cases. Unless they are mostly key workers or care homes?

If you have become infected in the past 5 weeks when you don’t need to be at work then you’re either really unlucky or an erse.

---

Care home case number went up by about another 200. They seem to be making up at least 50% of the new cases.

I suspect that they are only getting around to fully testing numbers in care homes now. Before they were testing 5, labelling it an outbreak and then doing no more testing.

On that assumption then it could be surmised that a lot of these ‘new’ cases are actually old cases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Care home case number went up by about another 200. They seem to be making up at least 50% of the new cases.

I suspect that they are only getting around to fully testing numbers in care homes now. Before they were testing 5, labelling it an outbreak and then doing no more testing.

On that assumption then it could be surmised that a lot of these ‘new’ cases are actually old cases.

---

👍

I see the England numbers are higher for deaths (711) but roughly 30% (209) are from more than 10 days ago. Only 105 from the 711 actually died in the past 24 hours.

This number will increase over the next few days but shows how a headline number can misinform the true picture. Daily death trend in England is down with peak now 17 days ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I'm not so sure about that.

I think the UK is in the "fortunate" position to be a couple of weeks behind a few other countries that are starting to loosen restrictions. I think we might give it a few weeks to see what happens in those countries and if it looks ok then we might start to loosen things.

End of May is my bet.

---

Like we did when we sat back and watched Italy getting ravaged? I've little faith that this government will act effectively and decisively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grunt

How far we have fallen as a nation if we think that unethical and immoral is somehow smart politics. No wonder we're in such trouble.

---

You are misquoting me. I didn’t say it was unethical or immoral, I said it might be - in some people’s eyes at least. Without knowing what goes on in the room it is impossible to say. As others have pointed out, it would appear naive not to expect somebody political on the group, the key point is whether they were influencing the advice. And I will pick you up on your response to another poster, If the scientists and medics involved were allowing that to happen then they are arguably breaching their own ethical code.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Classic. Reply to a post that says nothing about blaming anyone claiming it was blaming scientists.

Out of interest what do you think I was blaming them for?

---

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post; if so then I apologise. I read this as an attack on the scientists, criticising them for not speaking up:

I do however somewhat struggle with the concept that a significant number of pre eminent scientists and experts in their field, knowing that their recommendations will form a key part of any strategy, would sit back and let that happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

You are misquoting me. I didn’t say it was unethical or immoral, I said it might be - in some people’s eyes at least.

---

Your post didn't say anything about "in some people's eyes". You said "it might not be moral" and "it might not be ethical"; without any qualification it clearly implies (to me at least) that it's you that is thinking what it might or might not be. I don't think I misquoted you. In fact, I know I didn't misquote you. Perhaps you didn't say what you meant?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grunt

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post; if so then I apologise. I read this as an attack on the scientists, criticising them for not speaking up:

I do however somewhat struggle with the concept that a significant number of pre eminent scientists and experts in their field, knowing that their recommendations will form a key part of any strategy, would sit back and let that happen.

---

Ahh got ya.

My post was actually trying to say the opposite. That I would find it very hard to believe that the scientists would not speak up if they believed there was interference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grunt

Your post didn't say anything about "in some people's eyes". You said "it might not be moral" and "it might not be ethical"; without any qualification it clearly implies (to me at least) that it's you that is thinking what it might or might not be. I don't think I misquoted you. In fact, I know I didn't misquote you. Perhaps you didn't say what you meant?

---

That’s why I put the hyphen in my reply :rolleyes:

I said ‘in some people’s eyes’ for the same reason I started my original post on the matter, saying I was going against the grain - because any comment I saw on here and certainly some of the press coverage was negative about Cummings attending SAGE. My point was that it should be expected, anything else would be naive.

Without knowing what happened in the room it is hard to be certain of ethics or morality, hence my caveats. As others have pointed out to you already, it is astonishing to believe that many medics would stay silent if they thought there was undue political pressure. By the same token, there will be political pressure, for a wide range of reasons. Again, to think otherwise is naive.

Pilrig park is pretty busy just now, lots of people sat out in the sun, not in large groups, two at the most and well spaced apart but still shouldn't be happening

SAGE is, sorry was, an independent group. Independent in this instance being independent from political or other influences. The Chair during May's time as PM confirmed in an article that there hadn't been a Cummings or any other sort of political person attending previously never mind "taking part" in the meetings. Its wrong.

SAGE has lost its credibility as an independent group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack

SAGE is, sorry was, an independent group. Independent in this instance being independent from political or other influences. The Chair during May's time as PM confirmed in an article that there hadn't been a Cummings or any other sort of political person attending previously never mind "taking part" in the meetings. Its wrong.

SAGE has lost its credibility as an independent group.

---

Powis twice asked today whether Cummins spoke at these meetins, and twice failed to answer the question, wafflin on and on about how very scientific the discussions were.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I'd agree. End of May will see an official easing.

In many ways I actually think the gradual 'unofficial' easing of the lockdown many not be a terrible thing. It's definitely a little bit busier out and about. I passed B&Q this morning and the queue was a mile long as an example. We have a communal green space in our street; a couple of our neighbours sat there yesterday having a drink in the sun, they maintained a good distance between households but it isn't really allowed. They asked us to join them and we declined but I was far more tempted than I let on.

I suppose the point I am making is that we don't want a repeat of the scenes from just before lockdown with thousands of people all heading for beauty spots. With a sudden 'freedom' you risk that happening. If there is a little bit of give in the rules, where common sense allows, for the next few weeks it might just help avoid that happening. I think shops like B&Q and garden centres reopening and getting people used to queuing and so on will help as more non eseesntial businesses reopen.

---

Yes, when Sturgeon talks about having an adult conversation with the Scottish public I think she's crediting the vast majority with having the commonsense to make sensible decisions for ourselves once measures begin to lift. I was in the office on Thursday and walked through Princes St Gardens at lunchtime - several folk sitting around enjoying the sun but well away from each other, and only singles or couples. I suppose the polis would have moved them on had they been on patrol, but little harm done really. Also saw a couple of jakies having a great laugh on the steps of St.Cuthbert's Church, nae real change there!

As you suggest, people are now used to standing in large queues. Going forward, this should make easing of restrictions for non-essential shops etc less of a problem if we all continue to display the same patience and respect for personal space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibby Bairn

I still don’t get why still so many new daily cases. Unless they are mostly key workers or care homes?

If you have become infected in the past 5 weeks when you don’t need to be at work then you’re either really unlucky or an erse.

---

I will tell you why because families like the one in the bottom flat where I live had the kids from over road in, some random adults of which I believe there to have been a minimum of 4 different households together so those 3 households then go off and likely do same. Clearly do not give a toss. I will be doing the old Lee Wallace as it really pisses me off when people are not seeing parents or kids etc etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack

SAGE is, sorry was, an independent group. Independent in this instance being independent from political or other influences. The Chair during May's time as PM confirmed in an article that there hadn't been a Cummings or any other sort of political person attending previously never mind "taking part" in the meetings. Its wrong.

SAGE has lost its credibility as an independent group.

---

It cant be giving " the best scientific advice" if the discussions are being tempered by political advisors sitting in on meetings.



Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Trips

I will tell you why because families like the one in the bottom flat where I live had the kids from over road in, some random adults of which I believe there to have been a minimum of 4 different households together so those 3 households then go off and likely do same. Clearly do not give a toss. I will be doing the old Lee Wallace as it really pisses me off when people are not seeing parents or kids etc etc

---

They come into to the erse(s) category then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibby Bairn

They come into to the erse(s) category then.

---

The father has just went out in van for about 4th time and with a mask on. Whit a joke.

Lockdown self-easing definitely in full swing.

Just back from usual walk down the Almond to Silverknowes promenade and back up the road.

Really busy. Quite a few cycling groups stopped and sitting down eating and drinking (not bevvy). One family having a picnic. Benches at Cramond foreshore area all occupied with couples mainly sitting enjoying the sun. It looked like the end of the prom where the Boardwalk cafe is was really busy. Not sure if cafe was open or not.

Walking back up the main road lots of cars heading down to the car park (which is closed) and doubling back to park on the lane down.

It’s the first time I’ve seen anybody sitting about over the 5/6 weeks.

Everyone sitting in their own groups. Everyone seemed to be social distancing. I personally don’t have an issue with any of this. But if everyone started doing it then we’d have a problem I suspect. Didn’t see any police cars or vans today. Usually see a few when out and about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

As others have pointed out to you already, it is astonishing to believe that many medics would stay silent if they thought there was undue political pressure. By the same token, there will be political pressure, for a wide range of reasons. Again, to think otherwise is naive.

---

Isn't this exactly what we saw in the US the other day? Trump speaking in tongues about ingesting disinfectant, and the US equivalent of our CMO sitting there chewing on a wasp? I don't know why you think these senior medics and civil servants, some of them with years of service, aren't scared of speaking out against DC and his bullying. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't think you can discount it might be happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Trips

The father has just went out in van for about 4th time and with a mask on. Whit a joke.

---

Cheers mate, you’ve just reminded me that I need to order a new set of net curtains for the living room 👍

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

it is astonishing to believe that many medics would stay silent if they thought there was undue political pressure.

---

Powis was certainly stayin silent today when he was twice asked to comment on Cummins' involvement in the meetins. So that's one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Trips

The father has just went out in van for about 4th time and with a mask on. Whit a joke.

---

What are you waiting for? Report the erseholes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

No just shows there is no scientific evidence so far. With 3 million now confirmed to have it and only a handful of cases of reinfection probably safe to assume immunity but for how long is the question

---

Isn't that what I said?!

When lives are at risk, I'm not sure it's safe to assume anything if science can't provide any proof. I'm completely willing to accept that proof may well come though. On reinfection though, for now, we've no idea how many people have had it in the first place so it's impossible to say how many cases of reinfection there have been. This is the problem of little testing - you can't really state anything about numbers with any authority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Powis was certainly stayin silent today when he was twice asked to comment on Cummins' involvement in the meetins. So that's one.

---

I saw that and he gave slippery answers, but that in itself isn’t really enough to crucify Cummings. I have a healthy disliking for him but I would want evidence personally. And certainly, senior civil servants and the like are acutely political with a small ‘p’.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grunt

Isn't this exactly what we saw in the US the other day? Trump speaking in tongues about ingesting disinfectant, and the US equivalent of our CMO sitting there chewing on a wasp? I don't know why you think these senior medics and civil servants, some of them with years of service, aren't scared of speaking out against DC and his bullying. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't think you can discount it might be happening.

---

If it is happening it will come out. Both the medics and civil servants are bound by codes of ethics. There will be no shortage of people willing to get Cummings’ head on a pike, metaphorically, should there be substantive evidence that he went beyond the line. I don’t know if he did, none of us do at this point. I suspect it would have come out by now. And again, I don’t get the surprise about him or another government adviser attending SAGE that some on here have expressed.

I don't see why so many people are shocked at the self easing of the lockdown. There is only a finite amount of time that people will tolerate being away from friends and family.

The government have started drip feeding in information about easing of the lockdown because they also realise that it's simply not feasible to continue in it's current form much longer.

I'm not advocating what some people are doing but at the same time it's unrealistic to think that millions of people will continue to adhere indefinitely.

I reckon within 6 weeks or so the lockdown will have essentially ended in terms of visits to family / friends whilst the ban on restaurants and pubs continues for a while longer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

If it is happening it will come out. Both the medics and civil servants are bound by codes of ethics. There will be no shortage of people willing to get Cummings’ head on a pike, metaphorically, should there be substantive evidence that he went beyond the line. I don’t know if he did, none of us do at this point. I suspect it would have come out by now. And again, I don’t get the surprise about him or another government adviser attending SAGE that some on here have expressed.

---

Agree.