It sets an incredibly dangerous precedent. What’s to stop Trump for pardoning himself when he gets in to office?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
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It sets an incredibly dangerous precedent. What’s to stop Trump for pardoning himself when he gets in to office?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
1. It's not really a precedent - they all do it. Just happens that Biden pardoned a close relative. Other US presidents have pardoned relatives tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
2. Nothing to stop Trump who will no doubt do it. Nothing to stop him doing other worse things too. The US is in deep deep ****.
Got to be said i think if my son had broken the law difficult though that would be he should face justice particularly if i was the president of that country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Or pardoning the insurrectionists he incited to overthrow their democracy which resulted in a number of deaths and injuries?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Suppose it might come down to whether or not he takes any responsibility for them being there in the first place.
Responsibility and accountability for his actions doesn't seem to be in his DNA.
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Correct - they all do it. I think Trump pardoned his daughter's father-in-law and Clinton pardoned his brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Even though they do it, I'm really uncomfortable that they do.
Completely agree, makes you wonder if there's a crime too far/new low. I suspect we might be about to find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by overdrive
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He has his legacy, the respect of the nation and his own self respect to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
In fairness to him - he was presented with a dilemma and I think many of us would have done what he did.
He’d probably also have looked a bit weak in the long term if he hadn’t done it, given the absolute torrent of appalling behaviour that is surely shortly on its way.
Would have been nice to see him remain principled though.
At the end of his first presidency he looked into whether or not he could pardon himself so it's definitely in his mind. But I think presidential pardons extend only to federal crimes so he won't be able to pardon himself for his NY fraud conviction. He previously pardoned Kushner's father, enabling him to now be proposed as US ambassador to FranceQuote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
He has previously said he'd pardon the "January 6 hostages" on day 1 of his presidency. Time will tell if that was a true intention or just another Trump lie, but given he pardoned Stone, Manafort and Bannon it's clear that he values fealty and subservience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
This undermines the democrats going forward to their claim to the moral high ground. It’s embarrassing.
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I think it's sadly inevitable, the message seems to be crimes, and their much vaunted Constitution as it applies to crimes and trials can be neatly swerved round if it suits the gang in power if it's their foot soldiers that are convicted by jury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs Class
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Yup. Complete facepalm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I dont think that "moral high ground" counts for very much in a country where 71m voted for Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Yep. Politics in the US is so far down the toilet that Bidens appalling pardon will soon be forgotten.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Not by Trump's lot, they will milk it for everything. It's more fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
They dont need fuel. They make their own fires. Even if Biden hadn't done this, Trump would have lied about it and millions would have believed him anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
With the levels of corruption we are about to see, I really hope it opens up the space for someone like AOC to run on a cleaning up politics platform.
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She would be branded a traitor and hounded by the 71 million. And you're kind of assuming there will be more elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
At this stage I think I’d settle for “more elections” and “a bloody awful Republican who isn’t quite as awful as Trump” up next.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
First person on Bluesky to get 1 million followers. She def has an appeal other dems don’t have.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
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Just listened to the Trumped podcast on BBC Sounds. Pretty disgusted in the politicians and establishment including the Police in the welcome and protection Trump got. He really is a nasty piece of work
Trump has suggested he wants Kash Patel to head the FBI. A strong and vocal supporter of the Big Steal, Patel has also written children's books about how Hillary Clinton tried to say Trump was paid by Russia. Here's the first of three:
https://cdn.prod.dailykos.com/images...e/plotking.jpg
If you want to be really depressed, read the reviews on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Against-.../dp/1955550123
And then remember this guy is slated to run the FBI ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIdqrUfoZ1Q
An excellent video from James O'Brien in regards to Hunter Biden.
The moral high ground isn't worth anything, and without pardon, Hunter Biden would have been hounded, regardless of guilt, to appease Trumps rabid, conspiracy riddled base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Biden chose his son over his pride. Given he's already lost one son, I would give him a bit of moral leeway here.
I would’ve pardoned him if it was me.
Purely because Hunter Biden is like cat nip to the republicans and Trump. If the democrats had won, I don’t think he would’ve pardoned him.
Trump and MAGA are very good at being outraged at anything seen as suspicious by the democrats but nothing is ever said about their many shortcomings.
It will be used by MAGA for years to come that he’s been pardoned so overall it’s going to erode trust in politics and the democrats but under Trump there isn’t as much chance of a fair trial or fair naritive.
As a father I would’ve done the same thing, unless he was guilty of murder or such other heinous crime
It reeks, it wasn't just pardoning him for the crimes he committed, it covers any Federal Crimes over a 10 year spell, so if something even dodgier than crack, illegal firearms, tax avoidance and prostitutes crops up nothing happens
Don't care which side you are on its pretty shocking behaviour
Maybe it's just to circumvent the incoming regime from hounding Hunter on Trumped up charges (sorry about the pun).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
I think Biden has just become a bitter old man who has decided that, for whatever time he has left, his family is more important to him than the country (and party) that has comprehensively rejected and insulted him. In any case the election result shows that honesty and integrity count for very little in today's USA and Biden is too old to try to change that.
Apologies if this is a stupid question, or if I’ve even asked it before and forgotten - is there an equivalent power in the Prime Minister (or other role) here? Can Starmer just unilaterally pardon someone without anyone else being involved?
It strikes me as a power that shouldn’t rest with a single person (arguably, should it exist at all?), as it’s open to abuse
I think the power of pardon in the UK lies with the monarch - i.e. a royal pardon. It's very rarely used, but I did wonder if it could have been used for the wrongly convicted sub-postmasters.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Ministers can recommend a pardon but other people would have to look at it and as Caversham says they ultimately send it to Charlie for sign off since the courts act on his behalfQuote:
Originally Posted by McD
They don’t want pardoned as that still says you are guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
Have Labour sorted that yet?
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