Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
Would this mean that other than it becoming public knowledge, there will be no legal 'come back' on D&P?
Printable View
Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
Would this mean that other than it becoming public knowledge, there will be no legal 'come back' on D&P?
I think the tape itself is inadmissible i.e. it couldn't be played, but the conversation could be be discussed and because the contents have now become public knowledge D&P would look pretty foolish if they tried to deny it took place or dispute what was said. They could claim the tape was a mock-up and the BBC was 'duped' by CW, but the BBC claim to have used a voice recognition expert so I think they'd be on a sticky wicket.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadtom
Cheers again. Thats pretty much what i though the situ would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
It wasn't the tape that got him charged with perjury. It was lying in court that did that. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkirkHibby
I may be wrong but i'm not sure that the jury even heard the tape in court, i cant remember. In fact, IIRC, they were unable to prove that it was TS on the tape. That would mean it was even less likely to have been used as evidence in a perjury trial.
To be honest, i know a couple of people on the 'pro' and 'anti' TS side within the SSP and had heard the truth within days of the actual SSP meeting, long before the trial. As such i didn't pay as much attention to the actual court details.
However like yourself, i do seem to think i have heard of trials where illicit recordings had been made of people, which had been used as evidence in court. So i'm still unclear what the legal position is. I'm sure there is something regarding using subterfuge to record people, but dont know what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadtom
This is a similar debate to whether Whyte can be pursued by Ticketus, I suspect he can be. Comrade Tommy, I think the tape surfacing after his initial court win (the Gretna vs Real Madrid fiasco :greengrin) was key in forcing the perjury charges. If it was wholly inadmissable he wouldn't have made such a big fuss claiming the CIA and Murdoch had hired Rory Bremner and John Culshaw. :faf:
https://twitter.com/markdaly2/status/261495766491754496
More goodies tonight.
Can someone please post tonight's news on here for those of us away from BBC Scotland? ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by green glory
D and P are recorded telling Whyte to lie and say they where not aware of the ticketus deal as if HMRC found out they would remove themQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
there are also emails telling him the same
Zombies seem to think BDO cannot unwind this dodgy Sevco deal but surely it has to be done now.
Looks like Craig has been covering his derriere since Day 1. Charlie must be ordering his toilet paper from a wholesaler :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
What value could be put on any of the Duffers adjudications now ? :greengrin
£5.5 m? :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Is it possible that bdo could say the sale of oldco rangers assets was unlawful and seize them back and if so how likely is this to happen
Not so much that it was unlawful, but they do have the power to force D&P to justify the deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
If BDO aren't satisfied with that, they can have the sale reversed.... which is complicated and expensive..... or they can sue the Newco for the "fair value".
However, if they think that there has been collusion (ie with intent to defraud the creditors), that would be a police matter.
So.....for those of you who understand how the various regulatory players involved here work (like liquidators, HMRC, polis etc...): are the revelations of the last two nights likely to come under consideration, or can they be brushed under the carpet?
Edit: you may just have answered that for me!:greengrin Although I'm wondering about the likelihood of investigation.?
As BDO would have no chance of getting "fair value" out of Newco or a sale reversal, could they sue D&P? They'd surely have more chance of recovering something for the creditors that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If D&P have sold too cheaply, why should the purchaser suffer if there's been no collusion? If all Green and his group have done is spot a bargain, it seems unjust that they should have to cough up more money later simply because the seller undervalued an asset.
I have a feeling that administrators are appointed as individuals and not as representatives of the firm.If so this will be the defence-that the two administrators knew nothing about Ticketus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
In my view, something is worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it. That will be D and P's defence, of course.... but then the extendable noses of the Green empire told us last week that the assets were worth £80m. :greengrin
You're right, though..... D&P had better make sure that their Professional Indemnity Insurance is up to scratch, in case BDO go that way.
Is it not the case there were offers higher than Greeny's at the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The answer to that question is most probably found between pages 1 & 706 of this thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
Which is why i will not be trawling for it, but did not the Blue Knights have an offer of around the same as Greens? Kennedys offer tooIIRC? The Blue Knights & Kennedy together?
The Millar offer was double that of Greens , but i think he saw sense before it was too late & he seemed too honest for der hun anyway.[Maybe i should say he was not on the same corruption level as the rest:rolleyes:]
IIRC the Blue Nights (or whatever consortium was on the go at the time) were proposing £8m after the CVA failed, but by that time D&P were stating that they were tied into the Green proposal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ****pile
To be fair, the £8m offer was verbal (via the papers) so it could have been taken with a pinch of salt.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...ims-Whyte.html
CRAIG Whyte claims Rangers were STILL using the controversial EBT scheme when he came on the scene last year.
i hope that **** murray ends up in jail :agree: hopefully he hasn't got a leg to stand on and they can whip that stupid knighthood off him to start with, and hopefully that sniveling little creepy crook whyte ends up in the adjoining cell
That kinda rings a bell but i thought it was even dodgier.Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Were they not looking for bids to take them on as a going concern which didnt see too many bidders. Only when they announced that the club was to be liquidated did more potential buyers start to show interest but D&P claimed that a deal had already been struck with best bid to that point.
It was almost as if they stopped the bidding as soon as potential interest started to increase when in effect it became a fire sale.
Catching up on the last few days worth of news has defo put a smile on my face! I hope this is the start of the end... Again! :greengrin
Unfortunate choice of phrase...Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
:wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
well spotted :greengrin
just when you think there is little more to wring out of this story you find another chapter.....:greengrin
what I want next is the tape of Whyte & Green
Whyte - whats the plan Chuckie
Chuckie - you sell shares to me and i'll get the monkey of your back
Whyte - whats in it for me, not losing my wedge
Chuckie - keep yer heid down for a few months and you will get your wedge & more
Whyte - hows that going to happen
Chuckie - we will buy the scraps for a pittance, polish the turd with some help from our friends at the SFA / SPL...when the hordes of gullible eejits lap it up we will sell it to them...and hey presto...big bucks that we can split..
Whyte - genius...its yours for a quid.
Chuckie - tell you what i'm no crook...i'll give you double that
Alex Thomson's blog about tonights news
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...gers-fans/2891
I wonder why this is not being reported by the mainstream Scottish media. I still think the McCoist "I want to know who these people are' rant has been brushed under the carpet. I wonder if he really cares what his comments did to this man and his family? How would he feel if it was his family. No Scottish journalist seems to follow it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
It takes someone like Thompson outside the pro Sevco Glasgow media up here to tell the truth - the same truth that hun hacks claim Zombies want to hear! :confused: It does show the hypsocrisy of them in full, the way they put the boot into Romanov but were silent on Whyte, except to claim he was a billionaire, until the English press published the Ticketus funding facts, and then let Sally and Green off lightly with outrageous and inflammatory outbursts while failing to look into D&P. They even published the full names of the panel after the malicious Sally demand, furthering them to more threats of hun thuggery. These poodles are a disgrace to their profession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkirkHibby
I think, as will become apparent tonight on C4, that a good few of these Journos are not in the Hun camp, but are too **** scared to write about the truth.........,
It seems Sevco were after the add-on for the sale of Charlie Adam - Green reckons they bought the right to it along with all the other stuff for £5.5m
A bit of detail about gratuitous alienation in there as well.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...mpions-league/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
I'd love to see a televised dabate on the Huns debacle between Paul McConville and that fat twat Traynor :agree:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...tml?1351260933
Berlusconi is sentenced to 4 years for tax evasion......
Not quite what you had in mind, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman
Brian Ferguson@brianjaffa One for #oldfirm fans: @alextomo & @markdaly2 will be discussing media coverage of the #Rangers story at @edinburghnapier on 19 Nov
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/
One for Cav and CWG?
So, what do our resident accountants etc make of this?
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/
Quote:
I have a Heads of Terms document for the sale and leaseback of Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park.
The purchase price for all three assets is £7.285m. In addition to this there is a £6.55m loan provision with 15% interest payable monthly (£985.5k annually). Initial rent for all three properties is £1.8m. The 20-year lease provides for upwards-only reviews every five years by either 2% p.a. or RPI, whatever is greater (so assuming RPI is less than 2% each year, after five years, rent would be £1.987m).
Annual costs for rent and interest would be £2.785m. Current season ticket sales are reported to be approximately 36,000 with a standard adult price of £286, income net of vat will be around £8.5m.
Although the top line figure for both sale and loan is £13.835, “the initial payment will be less 3 years rent [£5.4m] to compensate for the lack of guarantee covering the rental payments”, so monies paid would be £8.435m as the first three years rent is deducted from the total.
Crucially, rent is to be securitised against ticket receipts and the new landlord is to be granted “first charge on the season tickets”, so, just as Craig Whyte planned with Rangers, Sports Direct FC would collect ticket money before passing it on to the security holder.
If the buyer attains planning permission for residential properties at Murray Park, a provision releases the seller from having to repay the £6.55m loan and cancels future interest payments. This speculative clause would release the club from punitive interest repayments but would require them to find a reasonably priced ash park to train on. Perhaps the Albion Car and Training Park.
“The tenant” will be able to buyback the stadium. In year one the price would be £10m (they would still owe the £6.55m loan). The set price increases by 12% p.a. for 10 years, so the year-10 price would be £27.7m. Thereafter “price will revert to Market Value but will not be less than £20m”. The market value of Celtic Park is around £50m. There is no buyback provision for Murray Park or the Albion Car Park.
The deal is on the table but will not be signed before the share issue, or if “the tenant” wins the Euromillions Jackpot (that’s not a euphemism for Champions League money, I mean the actual lottery), or finds some magic beans.
If true, I'd find it one of the less unexpected events in the whole saga. When Green's group took over I suspected they'd try to make their money by owning the property and renting it to the football club and that the multi-company Sevco structure was in part to facilitate this. I think he did something similar at Sheffield United.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
There are rumours that Ibrox needs a lot of expensive work done. If that's true, will the rent be enough to maintain the structure in a usable condition?
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/
Sale and rent back. Ha ha.
In commercial deals the tenant is responsible for maintenance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
Looks like Green et al covering their backside in case the share issue doesn't fly.
I am sure it will be a full insuring and REPAIRING lease. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
Thanks. That should cripple them nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Was a disgusting action from Mccoist and so was the pathetic response from the SFA and the Scottish media. The man clearly put others lifes at risk through a pre determined action, sadly he was happy to take that action safe in the knowledge his position would ensure he faced little retribution for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
Still it didn't pass everyone's attention and you safely say that one action showed the cheeky chappy to be a cretinous little man that he is....
Am I the only one that read this a spoof :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
What programme will this be on? Is it the C4 News?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrebus
Was my first thought, but I think it's a mixture of facts and the writer's comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
:agree: it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY
It's obviously a joke.
I don't know. This is being passed about by some of the people who have been leading lights in the whole Hun fiasco.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
If it's true it means Bomber Brown was right.
Nae mention of Sally demanding to know who the 3 guys on the panel were, thought that would be at the forefront of the report.
Yip. Couldn't agree more. This wasn't an off-the-cuff remark as he was climbing into his car, or a post-match interview when the adrenaline was running. This was a pre-recorded interview released via the Rangers website. I note in Alex Thomson's blog that the QC gives McCoist some benefit of the doubt, suggesting that McCoist was perhaps unaware that plenty people at Sevco knew exactly who the panel members were. If the QC's remarks are to be taken at face value, he's being pretty magnanimous. Even if that is what actually happened, somebody at Rangers should have been smart enough to realise that McCoist was a bit out of the loop, and stopped the broadcast going out.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
For my part, I don't think there was any misunderstanding or miscalculation. I think this was a deliberate and premeditated action from Rangers, done in full knowledge of the likely repercussions. Misinformation and intimidation; two of the standard tools in use by this disgusting organisation, whether oldco or newco.
http://forum.followfollow.com/showth...1#post18401055
Been on FollowFollow for the last few months(I lasted 6 months with an email address of Hibs4evr if you can believe it)
Couldnt take it any longer, had to come out of the closet
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJNB Hibby
They've locked the front door. :greengrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yer man at CQN doesn't do humour.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
sorry but why do thuns think there first win away in the 3RD div should be a reason to celebrate , they are even on facebook
Games like that are massive for them now. :greengrin
Exactly. Overcoming the mighty ten man Clyde outfit was mega impressive :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibercelona
Stanley knives and buckie bottles in full force in the centre of Glasgow city tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnyboy
This thread almost seems like old hat now that we have a Hearts one as well.
The Hearts thread is 666 pages and one liquidation behind this one.
But there's plenty of time .... :thumbsup:
676 pages, pedant alert:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
Yamamathics :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn
I preferred 666. A more fitting number considering the subjects :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn
You called? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
Not yet mate. I've still got a few good years in me....besides, the deal was after we won the Scottish Cup :devil:Quote:
Originally Posted by hibs0666
Bleep! Good spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn
Low blow!Quote:
Originally Posted by jonty
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...is-at-the-club
So - when is he leaving? just after the share issues and he's collected his loot? :greengrin
This clown just makes the noises that the huns want to hear. It is easy to say at this moment, but I'd be delighted to hear it if they gain promotion from Div. 1.
The huns are just sick that the rest of the SPL has just got on without them. If they don't come back they won't be missed, not by me anyway.
So he's basically in the huff and doesn't want Rangers to be part of a league which threw them out for breaking the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonty
Does that mean when they get their promotion to the SPL eventually, they're going to knock it back and stay in the SFL Div 1, or will the promise of more money and European football be to big to turn down. This man is making a mockery of himself and Rangers, they seem to attract the weird and wonderful to their boards and they're welcome to each other, quicker this half of the old firm disappeared without trace, the better for the whole of Scottish football.
Well all I can say is that I hope Green is around for a long long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonty
It's great that he's said the assets he paid 1.5 million are worth 80 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsmad
Biggest stitch up ever.
Stupidity at its best!
I will reiterate 100's of posts past: Newco where not thrown out, they became Sevco666 or something and, like any other new team; had to start off in the third division. He was even lucky enough to be granted a license!
Clown!
Pretty sure he didn't pay anything according to recent papers. He will get 10% of shares raised at a share issue thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by VickMackie
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Guaranteed the share issue is going to cover the joke £5.5m that the disgraced D&P 'sold' the oldcorpse assets for. According to them the huns were worth £2m less less than the combined fees Hibs got for Scott Brown and Steve Fletcher. Time for BDO to step in and wipe that cheshire cat grin from Green's drivel hole.
There's a statement on the official Sevco site about the big tax case. Pre-emptive for the result being VERY VERY imminent methinks.
I'll reiterate a week past Friday, Rangerstaxcase were reporting the result was with MIH and Hector with a max 2 weeks before the verdict was made public.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
What's that coming over the hill?
Can't be sure yet but it might be a bowler hat.
To be fair, that could either be Hector or a lot of orange clad supporters from over here in NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
Can't hear any flutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newry Hibs
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
Someone told me BDO are meeting Lord Hodge tomorrow re their initial findings on the Petition. Wonder if they will indicate it appears there have been dodgy dealings and the club may have been sold at undervalue?
Anyone else heard about this?
I hae ma doots. I don't think that they have been appointed yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Darn! Any idea when this could happen or is there still a lot of shredding being done?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/sta...90573287456769Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
D+P meeting Lord Hodge tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
:greengrin
http://i45.tinypic.com/149wpqe.jpg
That would be more likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
https://twitter.com/bbcdouglsfraser/...70051599327232Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://twitter.com/carasulieman/sta...83183075954688
Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
I don't think there is any doubt oldco was undervalued. Question is will BDO have the bottle to act and see financial justice is done.
@Paulmcc12: Collyer Bristow - lawyers for oldco #rangers oppose administration ending
@Jonokeydokey: #rangerstaxcase @Paulmcc12 #rangers Craig Whyte speaking at CoS liquidation hearing. reported as saying "Trick or Treat"!
@carasulieman: Right. Duff & Phelps are applying to end administration and hand over to BDO for liquidation.
@carasulieman: The "estate" handed over would include £1.7bn in cash plus "other assets". #Rangers
@carasulieman: However, Collyer Bristow, one of the creditors, are opposing the petition.
@carasulieman: It's technically two petitions - one to end administration and another to appoint liquidators. Lord Hodge being asked to consider both.
@carasulieman: D&P say the main purpose of the administration - "to maintain the company as a going concern" - was not achieved. #Rangers
@carasulieman: But they maintain they achieved another "minor objective" of "getting a better return". #Rangers
@carasulieman: We haven't heard from Collyer Bristow yet so not heard detail of their objection. #Rangers
@carasulieman: D&P told Lord Hodge Collyer Bristow did not vote on latest round of resolutions, which included today's action.
@Paulmcc12: Oldco #Rangers Liquidation Petition Heading for Extra Time? http://t.co/bbIHEOpO
Oldco #Rangers Liquidation Petition Heading for Extra Time?
Some info regarding the progress of the Rangers liquidation hearing before Lord Hodge today.
As with everything in this saga, it is not straightforward.
Three of the issues so far –
Collyer Bristow, lawyers for oldco under Craig Whyte and also defendants in court actions raised for millions of pounds by Duff & Phelps as administrators, have opposed the ending of administration. Tactically this may be designed to help them with the court actions, but the grounds for objecting are not yet clear.
Lord Hodge has asked for a transcript of the Craig Whyte tape, as heard on the BBC recently. It appears that it might be necessary for a court order to be granted before the transcript would be handed over.
There is a challenge to Duff & Phelps’ claimed remuneration of in excess of £3 million.
If Lord Hodge needs the transcript to finalise administration, then there will be a delay. Whether or not his Lordship was satisfied by the earlier report given to the court by D&P, the alleged conversation between Mr Grier and Mr Whyte clearly has raised concerns in the judge’s mind, as is understandable.
D&P, as their response to the BBC, said they did not comment on matters taken out of context. The whole transcript would put matters very much into context.
Hopefully that would not show up any inconsistencies with the report already lodged with the court!
The matter is adjourned for lunch.
Posted by Paul McConville
@carasulieman: Lord Hodge also mentioned he is "very concerned" about recent allegations & has asked BBC for DVD and transcript. #Rangers
Oh dear.
Now that would be newsworthy!Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
I had a wee word with her. Quickly corrected lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
@Paulmcc12: Not a Live Blog of the Oldco #Rangers Liquidation Hearing http://t.co/BmazJ4yP
Not a Live Blog of the Oldco #Rangers Liquidation Hearing
Some additional thoughts arising from the reports so far from this morning’s case at the Court of Session before Lord Hodge.
As long as no one wonders about the sound of the laptop coming from the cupboard in the courtroom, I hope to keep the updates going this afternoon. I would ask any of the counsel appearing in the case to ensure they speak up, as the cupboard door makes it difficult sometimes to hear.
Counsel for Duff + Phelps told the court that there were £1.7 million of cash and “other assets” to be handed over by the administrators to the liquidators.
Bearing in mind that Sevco paid £5.5 million for all of the assets, how is the balance so reduced?
One reason – Duff & Phelps fees are in excess of £1 million and the costs incurred by them for various matters, but especially legal expenses regarding the English court actions against Collyer Bristow are over £1 million.
And of course, should the there liquidators not recover any more money, they will be paid out of the £1.7 million. The creditors will do well to see a penny, it appears.
However the costs sought by Duff & Phelps are being challenged in this hearing, and they are required to justify their position regarding them to the court.
What “other assets” are there?
This would seem to comprise the various claims ongoing, such as the cases against Collyer Bristow, Prichard Stockbrokers re the Arsenal Shares and potentially Mr Betts, although the last one seems to have dropped off D&P’s radar, at least from the reports they have produced. In addition, D&P were looking at one stage at pursuing return of the £250,000 paid, supposedly, to Banstead Athletic, the English non-league team with whom Aidan Earley is alleged to be connected, Mr Earley being a long time associate of Mr Whyte’s.
Other than that, it is hard to see what other assets there might be, as Sevco bought “the whole assets” of Rangers.
Collyer Bristow are objecting to the end of administration. I wondered what locus they had to argue this but, on checking the creditors list in the April proposal by D+P, Collyer Bristow is listed as a creditor to the sum of just over £40,000. As a creditor it can participate in the court proceedings regarding the administration process. However, as counsel for Collyer Bristow has not yet addressed the court, the precise terms of their objection are not clear.
It was indicated that, whilst Lord Hodge wanted to see the transcript of the BBC tape of Mr Whyte’s conversation with Mr Grier, this was not “relevant” to the issue before the court today.
This could well be recognition that, as the assets have been sold, there is no reason for the liquidators not to be in place now, but that would not preclude action against Duff & Phelps should the courts or regulatory authorities determine that rules have been broken.
It strikes me that lengthy hearings of evidence might be needed to determine if D&P have erred or not, and it would be prejudicial to the creditors to tie the issue up together.
I suspect that Duff & Phelps, even if administration ends today, will not have seen the last of Lord Hodge’s courtroom!
Posted by Paul McConville (desperate to sneak out of the cupboard to stretch his legs)