Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

Given that the huge bias of death stats towards those aged over 80, I think talking about early deaths and living another ten years is just a nonsense at this stage, so is putting had Covid within 28 days on death certificate stats.

I'm happy to live with a death rate that is comparable to our seasonal flu rates. What's the alternative?

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

The majority of people dying of covid (or even covid contributing to them dying) wouldn’t have lived another ten years. Nowhere near it Infact.

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Right! They're old anyway, so what if they die before their time?

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Originally Posted by Jack

Of course it's not but covid is still probably contributing to their early death. If there had been no covid they could have lived on average another 10 years or more.

Does it really matter if it's covid only or partly covid that is causing an early death? 100s of people are still dieing each day.

Stairway didn't answer so maybe you will tell us how many dead people each day is an acceptable figure for you to live "normally"?

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Excess deaths is the gold standard in seeing how many died of covid in a nation, seeing as some nations hardly test. UK are about mid table in Europe.

The last 4 weeks in the uk excess deaths are bellow the 5 year average, even discounting last year.

How many deaths are acceptable to you. As what we're having now is going to be what we have forever now. We'll never be better protected probably, I doubt uptake of boosters will be as high going forward.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Right! They're old anyway, so what if they die before their time?

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That's not a very insightful contribution to the discussion. see the reply below for a basic level common sense understanding of why it's time to move forward.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Your last question is very loaded and I suspect there isn't an answer you'd be happy with. What number would be acceptable to you?

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In your opinion what is an acceptable figure?

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Originally Posted by Paul1642

In your opinion what is an acceptable figure?

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What about a figure that broadly equates to those that that die from the common cold or flu?

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Originally Posted by Paul1642

In your opinion what is an acceptable figure?

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I have no idea, I've not really thought about it and I'm not the one asking the question originally. Hence why in turning it back to the poster to ask them what they think is acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

I have no idea, I've not really thought about it and I'm not the one asking the question originally. Hence why in turning it back to the poster to ask them what they think is acceptable.

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Iv got the wrong end a little there. I think it’s the poster you are quoting that I am keen hear from. There has to be a minimum number that is acceptable for the people still keen to keep restrictions going.

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

The majority of people dying of covid (or even covid contributing to them dying) wouldn’t have lived another ten years. Nowhere near it Infact.

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While strictly speaking that's true, many more older people are dead as a result of Covid. However younger people dying would have had far longer to live.

In an article, pre omicron, the total expected years of life lost because of covid between under and over 50s was pretty much the same.

I don't understand why people who are desperate to do away with restrictions and live their life normally will not answer the how many dead people each day is acceptable question.

Each decision to reduce restrictions will have the consequence of dead people every day who would have otherwise lived longer.

I have neither advocated for more restrictions, while we come out of the pandemic, or doing away with them. Those advocating either must surely be able to justify their opinion and the consequences thereof.

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Originally Posted by Jack

While strictly speaking that's true, many more older people are dead as a result of Covid. However younger people dying would have had far longer to live.

In an article, pre omicron, the total expected years of life lost because of covid between under and over 50s was pretty much the same.

I don't understand why people who are desperate to do away with restrictions and live their life normally will not answer the how many dead people each day is acceptable question.

Each decision to reduce restrictions will have the consequence of dead people every day who would have otherwise lived longer.

I have neither advocated for more restrictions, while we come out of the pandemic, or doing away with them. Those advocating either must surely be able to justify their opinion and the consequences thereof.

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I think you are ignoring the responses to your point.

Surely, the onus is on those advocating restrictions on rights and choices to justify the basis for doing so?

Would you ban cigarettes, alcohol, driving faster than 20 miles/hour. All of those things cause tens of thousands of deaths and place huge strains on resources.

There again maybe we can all live with risk and begin rebuilding our devastated economy and mending our mental and emotional health.

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Originally Posted by Jack

While strictly speaking that's true, many more older people are dead as a result of Covid. However younger people dying would have had far longer to live.

In an article, pre omicron, the total expected years of life lost because of covid between under and over 50s was pretty much the same.

I don't understand why people who are desperate to do away with restrictions and live their life normally will not answer the how many dead people each day is acceptable question.

Each decision to reduce restrictions will have the consequence of dead people every day who would have otherwise lived longer.

I have neither advocated for more restrictions, while we come out of the pandemic, or doing away with them. Those advocating either must surely be able to justify their opinion and the consequences thereof.

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Regarding deaths in the less at risk age groups. England is an outlier in the 10-19 age group which is mainly Secondary school age. The fatality rate per capita is double the rate of Scotland (I don't know where to get the age breakdown for Wales and N.I). The under 9's is roughly the same percentage. It had me thinking the main difference in terms of restrictions was face masks in classrooms here. It will be interesting to see if infection rates increase in that age group when the masks are removed in a few weeks. If nothing else it will put to bed the face masks make no difference argument, presumably we will see a rise or not.

Regardless of the age of any death, covid or non covid during the pandemic, for me almost sadder than the death is the fact that undoubtedly the last year or two of the person's life was far from normal and likely quite isolating and lonely.

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Originally Posted by Jack

While strictly speaking that's true, many more older people are dead as a result of Covid. However younger people dying would have had far longer to live.

In an article, pre omicron, the total expected years of life lost because of covid between under and over 50s was pretty much the same.

I don't understand why people who are desperate to do away with restrictions and live their life normally will not answer the how many dead people each day is acceptable question.

Each decision to reduce restrictions will have the consequence of dead people every day who would have otherwise lived longer.

I have neither advocated for more restrictions, while we come out of the pandemic, or doing away with them. Those advocating either must surely be able to justify their opinion and the consequences thereof.

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It's endemic now. Deaths will be the same every year now, except for new vaccines perhaps but none anytime soon. You must want restrictions permanently from now on. If Covid suddenly disappeared would you want restrictions every year for flu, if not why not as it would save thousands of lives

There's on average about 2000 deaths a year on uk roads and 35,000 accidents requiring hospitalisation. A city speed limit of 8mp and motorway of 15mph would stop almost all. If you think the speed limit should be higher your a sicko right

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Originally Posted by Jack

While strictly speaking that's true, many more older people are dead as a result of Covid. However younger people dying would have had far longer to live.

In an article, pre omicron, the total expected years of life lost because of covid between under and over 50s was pretty much the same.

I don't understand why people who are desperate to do away with restrictions and live their life normally will not answer the how many dead people each day is acceptable question.

Each decision to reduce restrictions will have the consequence of dead people every day who would have otherwise lived longer.

I have neither advocated for more restrictions, while we come out of the pandemic, or doing away with them. Those advocating either must surely be able to justify their opinion and the consequences thereof.

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How many deaths would be acceptable to you?

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Originally Posted by Jack

While strictly speaking that's true, many more older people are dead as a result of Covid. However younger people dying would have had far longer to live.

In an article, pre omicron, the total expected years of life lost because of covid between under and over 50s was pretty much the same.

I don't understand why people who are desperate to do away with restrictions and live their life normally will not answer the how many dead people each day is acceptable question.

Each decision to reduce restrictions will have the consequence of dead people every day who would have otherwise lived longer.

I have neither advocated for more restrictions, while we come out of the pandemic, or doing away with them. Those advocating either must surely be able to justify their opinion and the consequences thereof.

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Younger people dying an alcohol related death or in RTA would have had longer to live as well. We accept these risks though.

The amount of deaths we have now are acceptable for us to bin all restrictions imo. How many would you say are acceptable?

Covid is here for good. We have to accept that people are going to die from it and get back to normal. The restrictions that are in place are doing absolutely nothing.

You say that removal of restrictions will have the consequence of people dying that wouldn’t have. Have a look at the numbers in England compared to the numbers in Scotland. Generally speaking, that’s not the case. The restrictions aren’t making a blind bit of difference.

Daily Scottish update;

5,118 new cases of COVID-19 reported since yesterday
Decrease of 1 in the confirmed cases in hospital since yesterday - 884
Decrease of 2 in the confirmed cases in intensive care since yesterday - 18
4,428,021 people have now received their first dose of the vaccine - 969 people since yesterday
4,143,511 people have now received their second dose of the vaccine - 828 people since yesterday
3,352,239 people have now received a booster vaccination - 3,185 people since yesterday
No deaths registered since yesterday

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

There's on average about 2000 deaths a year on uk roads and 35,000 accidents requiring hospitalisation. A city speed limit of 8mp and motorway of 15mph would stop almost all. If you think the speed limit should be higher your a sicko right

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Sicko's putting it a wee bit strong, but there are, still, too many people dying and being maimed on the roads. I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if some further restrictions were introduced to reduce the annual toll.

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Sicko's putting it a wee bit strong, but there are, still, too many people dying and being maimed on the roads. I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if some further restrictions were introduced to reduce the annual toll.

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So what mile per hour on the motorway if say 10mp is zero deaths any above is deaths and unacceptable. I don't want an answer as asking for a number is ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

So what mile per hour on the motorway if say 10mp is zero deaths any above is deaths and unacceptable. I don't want an answer as asking for a number is ridiculous

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How many deaths are there on the autobahn with no speed restrictions out of curiosity?

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

How many deaths are there on the autobahn with no speed restrictions out of curiosity?

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How many deaths did Sweden suffer from covid despite minimum restrictions?

The acceptable figure is the current figure for me. This is not because I think the current level of deaths is pleasant but because I think the restrictions are doing very little, if anything to stop it. Some European nations went full lockdown to stop Omricon with no success. I’m not convinced our death rate would be much, if any higher If we remove restrictions. Someone else said earlier, it’s restrictions for restrictions sale now.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

So what mile per hour on the motorway if say 10mp is zero deaths any above is deaths and unacceptable. I don't want an answer as asking for a number is ridiculous

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Restrictions don't necessarily have to be speed restrictions. Phones could be made not to work inside a moving car, for example.

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Originally Posted by Hibs4185

How many deaths are there on the autobahn with no speed restrictions out of curiosity?

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Motorways really aren't the problem when it comes to RTAs.

There are lots of restrictions we have to protect individuals and the wider population. Most weren't popular with some sections of society when they were brought in. e.g. seatbelts in cars, smoking ban in pubs, gun laws. I could count things like murder, rape, burglary etc being illegal, but you'd probably say those are extreme examples.

The difficulty governments have is trying to balance between protecting their citizens and not infringing on freedoms too much. It's a difficult one. American gun laws are a great example of this.

And without trying to be overly political, I'd trust the current Scottish administration a hell of a lot more than the UK one to look at doing the 'right thing' rather than the most popular thing.

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

Motorways really aren't the problem when it comes to RTAs.

There are lots of restrictions we have to protect individuals and the wider population. Most weren't popular with some sections of society when they were brought in. e.g. seatbelts in cars, smoking ban in pubs, gun laws. I could count things like murder, rape, burglary etc being illegal, but you'd probably say those are extreme examples.

The difficulty governments have is trying to balance between protecting their citizens and not infringing on freedoms too much. It's a difficult one. American gun laws are a great example of this.

And without trying to be overly political, I'd trust the current Scottish administration a hell of a lot more than the UK one to look at doing the 'right thing' rather than the most popular thing.

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We have been closer matched to England than any European nation on restrictions. Most in Europe called UK and Scotland mad to fully open up in the summer. It turned out the correct plan getting the wave in the summer, rather than the horrible winter delta wave most had.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

We have been closer matched to England than any European nation on restrictions. Most in Europe called UK and Scotland mad to fully open up in the summer. It turned out the correct plan getting the wave in the summer, rather than the horrible winter delta wave most had.

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Of course we have. Scotland, Wales and NI can only deviate slightly for fairly obvious reasons.

Also, the UK may have got it 'right' this time, but I assume we're just ignoring the rest of the pandemic?

If I'm not mistaken, I think the UK still has the highest total deaths per million of of all European countries. I'm sure you'll be along shortly to tell me I'm looking at the wrong data.

The other thing is England won't get any bump from opening we could. England's cases are still plummeting 3 weeks after dropping all rules. 31,943 today 48,602 last week. Scotland was 5,118.

Ons is lagged but we could see a switchover in prevalence soon and especially so when we drop rules

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

Of course we have. Scotland, Wales and NI can only deviate slightly for fairly obvious reasons.

Also, the UK may have got it 'right' this time, but I assume we're just ignoring the rest of the pandemic?

If I'm not mistaken, I think the UK still has the highest total deaths per million of of all European countries. I'm sure you'll be along shortly to tell me I'm looking at the wrong data.

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You can find the data but we're mid table and that's with us doing 10 times the testing of some nations. The highest is Eastern Europe due to vaccine uptake. Pre vaccines uk probably had the worst executed pandemic in Europe. But we can thank the teams in Germany and Oxford for changing everything. Amazing uptake particularly in the over 60s, getting vaccines and boosters out before the rest changed everything

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

You can find the data but we're mid table and that's with us doing 10 times the testing of some nations. The highest is Eastern Europe due to vaccine uptake. Pre vaccines uk probably had the worst executed pandemic in Europe. But we can thank the teams in Germany and Oxford for changing everything. Amazing uptake particularly in the over 60s, getting vaccines and boosters out before the rest changed everything

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I think we can both agree that the vaccines were the big game changer. I'll leave it there [emoji16]

41,648 cases and 35 deaths registered in the UK today.

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

I think we can both agree that the vaccines were the big game changer. I'll leave it there [emoji16]

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The vaccines were the everything. The uk government locked down too late, Sent people back to old folks homes without tests causing a massacre, our lockdowns in 2020 were too soft they opened up to early, eat out help out disaster, ppe contracts sold to mates, under funded NHS when we went in and out of this, no investment in air filtration, no new better paying sick pay as standard ect ect

Then some amazing people from Oxford who the tories wouldn't have cared for pre pandemic saved the day. I even thought the lockdown last winter was to late and too loose. The British public take the plaudits in getting vaccinated as quickly as they could and in huge numbers. It was accidental good fortune from uk gov

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The vaccines were the everything. The uk government locked down too late, Sent people back to old folks homes without tests causing a massacre, our lockdowns in 2020 were too soft they opened up to early, eat out help out disaster, ppe contracts sold to mates, under funded NHS when we went in and out of this, no investment in air filtration, no new better paying sick pay as standard ect ect

Then some amazing people from Oxford who the tories wouldn't have cared for pre pandemic saved the day. I even thought the lockdown last winter was to late and too loose. The British public take the plaudits in getting vaccinated as quickly as they could and in huge numbers. It was accidental good fortune from uk gov

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This is a post I can definitely agree with.

All remaining Covid-19 restrictions in Northern Ireland have been lifted, Health Minister Robin Swann has announced.

"I have decided that those remaining measures should no longer be set out in regulations," Mr Swann said.

"Instead, they should be placed in guidance to be followed by the public."

He said he would be making an order on Tuesday to revoke the remaining restrictions, including face covering regulations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60369591