Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

Just had a read whilst sat on the train. They really do not get it at all. It's not bitterness, it's vindication.

This "5-1" crap is the same as Lance Armstrong saying "Well I won 7 tour de frances in a row". Both parties are now facing their comeuppance.

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This is one of the best comments I have read. It is absolutely accurate and every Hibs fan appreciates that they are reaping what they sowed. If they feel cheated by Romanov then they might feel a little less comfortable about the scoreline they are so proud of and understand where a lot of our feelings are coming from. I appreciate that there is a certain amount of gloating going on at the moment...but I am sure that the Hearts fans will stop it one day! I posted what I thought was a reasonably sensible comment here last week and it seemed to upset them...now look what has happened...I am just worried in case I might have caused all of this. I feel like s**t.:faf:

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

The company in admin has protection from creditors. Thats the whole point.

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Thought administrators weren't allowed to accrue new debts though?

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Thought administrators weren't allowed to accrue new debts though?

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There will be running costs associated with the business.

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Originally Posted by fat freddy

The financial guru is back...in some strange way i feel that if it were not for CWG, CG, GG, PTS, Sergey and a few other notables whose names elude me at the moment, then this beautiful story might never have happened.

on behalf of all . netters....'We Salute You!'....your indefatigability in providing us with a true picture of what has been happening at the PBS against a backdrop of lazy journalism, lying directors and deluded supporters make you all lifetime Hibs legends in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

Il second that. Many thanks to all mentioned. As someone who really doesn't have a clue about financial matters, the insight you guys have provided has given me and many others an understanding of how grave their situation really is :not worth

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:agree: :top marks :applause:

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Originally Posted by tomf

This is one of the best comments I have read. It is absolutely accurate and every Hibs fan appreciates that they are reaping what they sowed. If they feel cheated by Romanov then they might feel a little less comfortable about the scoreline they are so proud of and understand where a lot of our feelings are coming from. I appreciate that there is a certain amount of gloating going on at the moment...but I am sure that the Hearts fans will stop it one day! I posted what I thought was a reasonably sensible comment here last week and it seemed to upset them...now look what has happened...I am just worried in case I might have caused all of this. I feel like s**t.:faf:

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They don't; nor do they feel cheated by wallet mercer, who started the financial skulduggery. Apparently, it's all the pieman's fault ... one of their own, and possibly someone who really did try to resolve their problems. But it's his fault.

Fed up hearing about the institution, this institution has nothing to do with sport!!

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Originally Posted by Drumlanrig

First ever post from Drumlanrig, couldn't resist it anymore!

This thread has just made me so happy....blub blub!

Never thought that it could be like this...... sniff, sniff blub !

On train to Cheltenham and gonna celebrate with a large dram on arrival ... I'm overcome by emulsion!!

Wot dram should I have??

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Spring bank fifteen year old

Numerous reasons

1) amazing malt
2) Campbeltown malt (see above - may influence kpmg)
3) green and black label
4) fifteen
5) one five
6) 15
And not a minus fifteen or a childish hand gesture in sight!

Slainte!!

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Originally Posted by SkintHibby

Between the two administrators, who is the one more likely to (1) liquidate Hearts and (2) sell Tynecastle Stadium?

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Bump!

Good question - any guesses?

There really is no option but the Big 'L'.

Its coming your way Hertz.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Does a creditor part secured like Ukio Bankas seem to be ( owed £15 million and having £6.8 million of it secured ) not get a vote for the unsecured part of the debt ?

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They probably do.

That said, I am not trusting what is in the public domain at the moment.

As others have said, the debt levels are taken from the 2012 accounts, as is the nature of the securities. It wouldn't surprise me if securities have been changed or increased, and not lodged at Companies House. It will be up to the administrator to assess that; remember that D&P said, on their appointment, that one of their first tasks was to do exactly that.

And, whoever called me a guru.....I refute that. Gurus are Sikh, and I'm not laying myself open to criticism from some of the more rabid posters on here. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

There will be running costs associated with the business.

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And i thought the Admin Would or Could - Procede straight to Liquidation.. if there was Not enough Ready Funds or incoming Income !!! to keep the club running in the meantime.. ???

:top marks

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Originally Posted by Hot Shot Hamish

If your going to keep speaking dirty like this Im going to have to close my blinds. :agree:

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

The company in admin has protection from creditors. Thats the whole point.

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But they still have to pay day to day expenses. They may be protected from paying previous utility bills but if they want electricity from now on they will have to pay for it, possibly in advance. Anyone got any 'Power Kerds'? If there is no money coming in the administrators will not be able to maintain Hearts as a going concern.

Rangers had £3-4 million in the bank when they went into administration. They were also in season so there was matchday income from visiting support and walk-ups.

Hearts need to spend a lot on maintenance on that crumbling old stand or their safety certificate will be gone. If they want to retain any playing staff they will have to pay them. I would guess that the Police will require payment up front if Hearts last into the start of next season.

I suspect that once BDO/KPMG see the full extent of the situation they will go for liquidation right away.

Maybe I'm missing something, but four things appeal to me

1 - If the PBS has been pledged for £6.8m then that has to be the minimum value attached to the Yams. KPMG can't sell them with the stadium for less than that because I assume that the liquidators for Ukio Bankas could turn around and call in the security, giving them ownership of the property. And they will have no qualms about seeking an open market sale and inviting bids from developers.

2 - So with any cosy stitch up between KMGP and Save Hearts In Trouble ruled out, Ian "I'm an MP" Murray and his mates will have to raise a very large amount of cash to purchase the stadium. But no-one will lend on the basis of pledges, some of which are bogus (and well done!) and the rest of which may not agree to sign up or can cancel at any time. If they hope for a wealthy fan (eg Ann Budge) to lend the Save Hearts In Trouble bid the money, then why would the ordinary fans pay their pledges to refund a millionaire?

3 - And if Save Hearts In Trouble do manage to get ownership of the club (with or without the PBS), they will still need to fund the running of the club. They'd have to honour the existing season tickets due to the bad feeling any cancellation would cause, which means they're reliant on walk ups and pledges. The result will be a team destined for relegation, and that will further depress attendances after the initial surge of defiance.

4 - The relegated Yams won't come straight back up as they'll be in the same Division One in 2014/15 as Sevco Huns, so they'll need to fund at least one more year out of the SPL. That in turn will hamstring them on their eventual return due to the level of debt they will incur just by trying to operate as a club.

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Originally Posted by mca

And i thought the Admin Would or Could - Procede straight to Liquidation.. if there was Not enough Ready Funds or incoming Income !!! to keep the club running in the meantime.. ???

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Part of the admin's job is to secure a better return for creditors than they could get in liquidation. If he thinks this is impossible, after reviewing the situation, then liquidation will be the next step.

However, it gets messier. In order to do his job, I think he has to take possession of HMFC's shares. Whilst UBIG's assets are frozen, he won't be able to do that.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

There will be running costs associated with the business.

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Apparently The Pitch.. That Little Poor Grass Bit In the MIDDLE of All This keek.. Actually Requires Upkeep.. approx 2k a week with staff !! ....But - With Extra Seeding needed to Get Pitch Playable - Until The New Season Starts..... .. oh. and wee tractor needs diesel .. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Part of the admin's job is to secure a better return for creditors than they could get in liquidation. If he thinks this is impossible, after reviewing the situation, then liquidation will be the next step.

However, it gets messier. In order to do his job, I think he has to take possession of HMFC's shares. Whilst UBIG's assets are frozen, he won't be able to do that.

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Some of the current owners of "shares" can't take possession of them either!

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Originally Posted by Eyrie

Maybe I'm missing something, but four things appeal to me

1 - If the PBS has been pledged for £6.8m then that has to be the minimum value attached to the Yams. KPMG can't sell them with the stadium for less than that because I assume that the liquidators for Ukio Bankas could turn around and call in the security, giving them ownership of the property. And they will have no qualms about seeking an open market sale and inviting bids from developers.

2 - So with any cosy stitch up between KMGP and Save Hearts In Trouble ruled out, Ian "I'm an MP" Murray and his mates will have to raise a very large amount of cash to purchase the stadium. But no-one will lend on the basis of pledges, some of which are bogus (and well done!) and the rest of which may not agree to sign up or can cancel at any time. If they hope for a wealthy fan (eg Ann Budge) to lend the Save Hearts In Trouble bid the money, then why would the ordinary fans pay their pledges to refund a millionaire?

3 - And if Save Hearts In Trouble do manage to get ownership of the club (with or without the PBS), they will still need to fund the running of the club. They'd have to honour the existing season tickets due to the bad feeling any cancellation would cause, which means they're reliant on walk ups and pledges. The result will be a team destined for relegation, and that will further depress attendances after the initial surge of defiance.

4 - The relegated Yams won't come straight back up as they'll be in the same Division One in 2014/15 as Sevco Huns, so they'll need to fund at least one more year out of the SPL. That in turn will hamstring them on their eventual return due to the level of debt they will incur just by trying to operate as a club.

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The security is suggested to fall away with administration according to some insolvency gadge in the News.

Any chance the new firm of Caversham, Cropley and Desantos can be appointed.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

What about the video in that report ? Whalearses laddie, WHY ?

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"In the 80's 'The Pink-Fluffies' were a model of financial prudence"

i cannot believe that (whoever the commentator is) actually made THAT statement !!. The Fat cardigan-wearing, Tory Fat-Boy, Wallace Mercer, was the one who STARTED their 'Financial Football' business-model !. HE was the one who who started the '3rd-Force' garbage, HE was the one obsessed that they would never, ever lie down to us after we had regularly ripped them for 99% of the 70's !!

Their derby-fortunes changed dramatically once he took over - did they have some miraculous managers/trainers/super-football plan etc because if they did, these people or plans would be world-renowned / household names whose system would be copied by clubs everywhere !!

NO - Mercer started the year-in, year-out, season-after-season LOSSES !!. Every season that debt increased due to him buying players they could NOT afford - all, IMHO, with a view to beat US - not seriously challenging for leagues or cups, just to be 'No.1 in Edinburgh' !!. Robinson continued with this 'Business-Model' and Vlad even strengthened it further !!

30 years later, they are now paying the price for Mercer's ............... vision !!

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Originally Posted by mca

Apparently The Pitch.. That Little Poor Grass Bit In the MIDDLE of All This keek.. Actually Requires Upkeep.. approx 2k a week with staff !! ....But - With Extra Seeding needed to Get Pitch Playable - Until The New Season Starts..... .. oh. and wee tractor needs diesel .. :greengrin

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They usually play the ball high above the grass anyway.

Latest from BBC....


@BBCBMcLauchlin: The offer was from the Scandinavian group who were willing to hand over £500k in return for a share of future transfer fees.#bbcsportscot

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I burst out laughing when he said that. The FoH guy was presenting himself as a financial expert but came over as a complete and utter trumpet. He says FoH are the only option left. On the basis of his performance tonight I do hope so!! Under FoH it will be Hearts 2013 FC playing Lowland League home games at Creamery Park, Bathgate.

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No having that just roond from my house, they can jog on up to almondvale if they want but if they pitch up at creamery park my house goes on the market!!

It's bad enough watching Bathgate play kelty hearts as it is

Hahaha £500k.

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Originally Posted by Andy74

The security is suggested to fall away with administration according to some insolvency gadge in the News.

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The security doesn't (and won't) fall away, as such. Basically, an administrator can deal with the asset unencumbered by the security but must account to the secured creditor with the proceeds. In practice what normally happens with oversecured property in administrations is that the security holder and insolvency practitioner agree a fee in advance of the sale, which is then deducted from the proceeds before these are passed to the security holder. Any remaining balance falls in as an unsecured claim.

Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

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Originally Posted by Andy74

The security is suggested to fall away with administration according to some insolvency gadge in the News.

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Utter bulldust, IMHO

Do you have a link? It may be bad journalism. :rolleyes:

What happens with the wages that were due last week?

When they are in admin do the players become creditors and can therefore not expect hearts to even try to pay them?

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

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They can't even manage to go into administration when they try to!! :faf:

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

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As I understand it, you have to have Directors to file for Admin, so how could UBIG call this one?

Clear as mud :wink:

As an after thought, when UBIG go down, do they become UB bitch? :cb

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

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It's a Board decision.

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Originally Posted by 7062

What happens with the wages that were due last week?

When they are in admin do the players become creditors and can therefore not expect hearts to even try to pay them?

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They become preferred creditors after liquidators and secured creditors if I remember correctly

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

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No, the board of directors at Hearts have a legal duty of care to "act in the best interests of the shareholders". In this instance the best interests of those shareholders is by accepting the business can no longer meet it's liabilities therefore to offer some sort of chance of protecting those shareholders interests through some form of restructuring or refinancing the board have asked to appoint an administrator which also offers bankruptcy protection whilst the administrator attempts to find a way forward for the business. Someone asked earlier which administrator would be more likely to go for liquidation. I think the answer is neither as they have a duty of care to attempt to keep the business going as a "going concern", however BDO if appointed would be working on behalf of UBIG/UKIO'S Administrator and therefore would be looking at ways to ensure their client obtained the best possible return through the administrative process. should that lead to liquidation and sale of assets then so be it. This was why HMRC wanted to appoint the administrator at Rangers to protect their interests first & foremost. They failed as they were not a shareholder or secured creditor. The opposite is true of UBIG/UKIO so my money is on BDO being given the nod (provided the judge is not some yam walloper of course :greengrin:greengrin)

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Originally Posted by PatHead

They become preferred creditors after liquidators and secured creditors if I remember correctly

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You can claim for all your outstanding pay from the insolvency practitioner. There is no guarantee that the full amount you are owed will be paid as this depends on whether enough funds are raised from the sale of your employer's assets.

Some debts, including holiday pay and wages, will be 'preferential debt' when your employer's assets are shared out. This means they must be paid before certain other debts.

As full payment cannot be guaranteed, there are special arrangements for employees to claim the basic minimum of debts owed to them from the National Insurance Fund. These claims are:

redundancy
wages - up to a maximum of eight weeks
holiday pay - up to a maximum of six weeks
compensatory notice pay - one week after one calendar month's service rising to one week per year of service up to a maximum of 12 weeks (new earnings will be taken into account)

There is a limit of £450 a week on the amount you can claim for weekly pay.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Utter bulldust, IMHO

Do you have a link? It may be bad journalism. :rolleyes:

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On the phone just now but the EN had a Q and A with an insolvency guy today. He was prattling about newco getting relegated though.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There is a limit of £450 a week on the amount you can claim for weekly pay.

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Getting paid in full from the taxpayer will be a small consolation for the youth players and ordinary employees in the Yams office, shop etc who will be losing their jobs. But it's nice to know that the remaining overpaid mercenaries in the first team squad will only get a fraction of what their contracts promised.

@BBCFootball1: Administration nears for Hearts: BBC Scotland expects administration to follow for Hearts once their parent co... http://t.co/M6UwgA9nff

@BBCBMcLauchlin: Hearts board turned down £500,000 from potential buyer on Monday hours before asking for club to be placed in administration#bbcsportscot

@BBCBMcLauchlin: The offer was from the Scandinavian group who were willing to hand over £500k in return for a share of future transfer fees.#bbcsportscot

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Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee

Dimitri learns of tonight's revelations. :greengrin

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Just in case anyone missed this last night. :greengrin

500,000 :faf: :faf:

"Hearts are due to pay a significant six-figure sum to the Inland Revenue on Friday but have insufficient funds available."

:hmmm:

Could a winding up order be on its way or has admin robbed us of that particular giggle?

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Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee

Just in case anyone missed this last night. :greengrin

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Hats off to you!

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

"Hearts are due to pay a significant six-figure sum to the Inland Revenue on Friday but have insufficient funds available."

:hmmm:

Could a winding up order be on its way or has admin robbed us of that particular giggle?

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Given that the Inland Revenue disappeared in 2005, that's a helluvan old debt. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's a Board decision.

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But UBIG have no Board. I suspect that the directors of Hearts and the (former) directors of UBIG have some overlap.

http://www.afc-chat.co.uk/forums/index.php?act=idx right hand side:faf:

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Originally Posted by jgl07

But UBIG have no Board. I suspect that the directors of Hearts and the (former) directors of UBIG have some overlap.

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The question was about the Hearts administration, and who made that decision.

I wonder how long it will take The City of Edinburgh Council to tell us how much is owed to us from HoMFC?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

The question was about the Hearts administration, and who made that decision.

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My guess is David Southern.

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Originally Posted by jgl07

My guess is David Southern.

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No, it can't be. It is the Board who make the decision. DS may have recommended it, but the Board have the final say.

http://youtu.be/fenMbcZgqD4

Just back from a weekend away. What sublime news:thumbsup:

:flag::flag::flag:

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Originally Posted by Springbank

Spring bank fifteen year old

Numerous reasons

1) amazing malt
2) Campbeltown malt (see above - may influence kpmg)
3) green and black label
4) fifteen
5) one five
6) 15
And not a minus fifteen or a childish hand gesture in sight!

Slainte!!

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I have a bottle of glenmorangie quinta ruban(been extra matured in port casks ) I'm really tempted but I'm keeping it for my 60th in three weeks time

Then its getting opened for a wee party in Whitby

A really good mate of mine ( a jambo ) will be there so I hope he takes it in good part when I open it and he sees the T-shirt I'm planning to wear :-)

For reading addicted insomniacs...

Hearts. An Edinburgh Institution. A bit like RBS. Both institutions pushed the financial boat far too far from the shore. RBS, bailed by the government, the tax payer, continues to trade. The future of Hearts remains in the balance. Perhaps the Edinburgh rate payer should foot the 25 million bill? Or perhaps the UK government should lean on the Lithuanians to foot the bill – all in order for a football club to continue in its present form. A football club, that like RBS was the sole architect in its own downfall. Both examples of the hubris that rages throughout the capitalist free market economic model.
So how should Scottish football judge this sorry mess? On the one hand, having lost Rangers from the league, an argument can be made for protecting another prominent club from folding. This argument is based on very loose assertions that the SPL cannot survive, or is devalued without Hearts. The survival argument is tenuous at best – given that the loss of Rangers was far less damaging than had been predicted. The bottom line is, Hearts as an organisation created their current situation, and it is difficult to see why anyone should pay for their poor management.
Football is an emotive business of course. Sport attracts supporters in a way no other industry quite matches. A contest that epitomises the competitive spirit, it is pride that is at stake for those who pay through the turnstiles. This is the other side of the argument for those interested bystanders watching from the side lines. Apart from the legalities of debt and financial fair play, sporting integrity is what matters most to many of Scotland’s football supporters. Supporters who see their pride damaged on the pitch by opponents gaining unfair financial advantage inevitably have no sympathy for those opponents suffering when the debts are recalled. The supporters of Hibernian have more reason than most to hope for financial justice to be done to their rivals across the city. Years of derby domination by Hearts has been a hard slog for these supporters, in the knowledge that their own club were trying their hardest to make ends meet. The overwhelming sense of superiority held by many Hearts fans in this period, was all down to the financial plan of one man, Vladimir Romanov. That his vision ultimately failed, his businesses bankrupt, and his financial support for Hearts withdrawn, is no direct fault of the Hearts fans, or any employee of the club. Nonetheless by buying into his vision, accepting his wages, shouting from the rooftops at their glory, they cannot now avoid facing whatever fate befalls them – and can expect no sympathy.
The 25 million pounds owed by Hearts to UKIO/UBIG, is ultimately part of a large pool of debt owed to a host of creditors - probably including Lithuanian taxpayers, who have no interest in Hearts or Scottish football. It is a sign of the mean and callous side of human nature, that there are many who would be happy to see these creditors foot the bill for all those players that passed through the gates of Tynecastle. After all they are in Lithuania right? Surely we just send a gun boat to the Baltic Sea and call the whole thing quits. Or perhaps, the organisation responsible for accumulating this debt should be held accountable. If this results in the Stadium being sold, the club being liquidated, then how can this be seen to be in anyway unfair, or even harsh? For sure there will be many people associated with Hearts who will be devastated, many club employees looking for jobs. Is it the Lithuanian creditor who is at fault and should suffer instead? Loss of jobs is always a personal tragedy, and it is an indictment of our society that a person can – through no fault of their own – go from respectable contributor, to drain on society overnight. Once again however it is Hearts financial imprudence that has most directly led to this.
From this observers view point, I hope that a Hearts team plays football, if not now, but in the future. In the meantime, I also hope that they reap what they have sown.

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Originally Posted by Andy74

On the phone just now but the EN had a Q and A with an insolvency guy today. He was prattling about newco getting relegated though.

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Was it this? EEN link.

"What happens to the club’s debt?
The CVA will mean both Ukio Bankas and UBIG will have to agree to accept a certain proportion of their debt, whether that might be five or ten pence in the pound, or perhaps slightly more. One of them also has security over Tynceastle Stadium. That will be excluded from that process."

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Originally Posted by McPhisto2

Yeah some good points there cheers, however, I guess I wasn't really asking if the SPFL would survive, but really if anyone can see a slow, possible domino effect in other clubs maybe slipping into financial dire straits as time goes by, say over the next 2-3 years. We're obviously in far better shape that those puddle drinkers but I do think we will have to keep an eye on things money wise as well.

Anyway, cheers for the comments :aok:

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I'm miles off the pace here:greengrin things are changing by the minute! but I basically don't give a fck what happens down gorgie way at the mo, and even less about der hun. I do have a good feeling, that our crowds will increase over the coming season,yet there will be ramifications re-the demise of another top end club, for Scottish football at the moment. there is no way that I can feel anything though , other than a "you made your bed, lie in it" attitude. and I'm 100% certain that almost 100% of the people on here feel the same. cheats, and that's the only way to describe them, be it sevco , or soon to be sevco 2, will get their just deserves and the people that have been cheated will feel that every dog has it's day, and as I've said on various posts on here over the years, our day will come. that day is just round the corner and I am hoping that our supporters can kick on this season, by attending our games in good numbers. we have more ST holders than them, obviously driven by Petrie's reasoning of , renew, buy, get a ticket to the final etc which in essence actually worked!. (not the ideal scenario for fans , from a while back imho) however, I do still feel a bit confused about the new spfl, or what it means and will it actually help Scottish football but I will be following Hibernian fc again this coming season with hopefully a full bus to most of our away games! despite the idiotic ,usual tv driven ko times/days! ggtth.

? :thumbsup:?

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Originally Posted by fat freddy

The financial guru is back...in some strange way i feel that if it were not for CWG, CG, GG, PTS, Sergey and a few other notables whose names elude me at the moment, then this beautiful story might never have happened.

on behalf of all . netters....'We Salute You!'....your indefatigability in providing us with a true picture of what has been happening at the PBS against a backdrop of lazy journalism, lying directors and deluded supporters make you all lifetime Hibs legends in my eyes.

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and for that, in turn we support you:not worth

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

Very very unlikely. Admins will be responsible for leccy once they take over and will take readings. Invoices up to that date will go in the pot marked "whistle".

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ok, while we're at it, have they/will they paty the council tax/rates? who empties their buckets?

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Originally Posted by Drumlanrig

First ever post from Drumlanrig, couldn't resist it anymore!

This thread has just made me so happy....blub blub!

Never thought that it could be like this...... sniff, sniff blub !

On train to Cheltenham and gonna celebrate with a large dram on arrival ... I'm overcome by emulsion!!

Wot dram should I have??

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Glenfarclas, 10, 12,15 or 18year old. recommended. and don't add water:greengrin

Nearly, probably

I think the reaction by the sporting media to Hearts demise shames Scottish society. They shouldn't be selfishly asking whether the SPL can survive without Hearts, they should be considering the broader implications for western democracy as a whole.

In the thirties and forties, only Hearts stood between us and being kitted out in Hugo Boss today.

Now the fear is that we'll all have towels wrapped round our heads and be reciting verses from the Koran next season.

The only people who will be 'having a party' will be the Hitlers and Bin Laden's of this world.

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Originally Posted by monktonharp

Glenfarclas, 10, 12,15 or 18year old. recommended. and don't add water:greengrin

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What about the 105?!?

Aberlour A'Bunadh; Lagavulin 16; Bunnahabhin anything :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Iain G

What about the 105?!?

Aberlour A'Bunadh; Lagavulin 16; Bunnahabhin anything :greengrin

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been a fan o' glenfarclas for many's a year but 105? nah, burns the throat if ye take it raw! not recommended. spent a fortune buying it in duty free, only to find it was mair like pocheen:greengrin

http://www.15min.lt/en/article/busin...ars-527-345583

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monktonharp

been a fan o' glenfarclas for many's a year but 105? nah, burns the throat if ye take it raw! not recommended. spent a fortune buying it in duty free, only to find it was mair like pocheen:greengrin

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30 yr Talisker the best

Hearts in administration reminds me of an old song. The Muckin "o" GORGIES byre

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HH_MYB

http://youtu.be/fenMbcZgqD4

Just back from a weekend away. What sublime news:thumbsup:

:flag::flag::flag:

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Just landed in Hawaii, stuck on Hibs.net and seen the news!
Awesome way to start a holiday!
To everyone connected with Hearts, thanks!

They were offered the dosh but turned it down!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22963110

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deek

They were offered the dosh but turned it down!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22963110

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In the BBC story, there is a Q&A which mentions selling assets including their Rickarton training base.

Just goes to show that these BBC journos just regurgitate keech like BAnderson.

Scary or Pleasing?
Hearts going into liquidation and life as a newco is inevitable, says former colleague of Vladimir ... http://t.co/3RoiSxWWPT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ...WentToMowAnSPL

Scary or Pleasing?
Hearts going into liquidation and life as a newco is inevitable, says former colleague of Vladimir ... http://t.co/3RoiSxWWPT

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I hope the *******s rot in hell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deek

They were offered the dosh but turned it down!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22963110

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£500k, only on condition that the club wouldn't go into administration and that they could share profits from selling players.

There's no way that the directors could have guaranteed that the club wouldn't go into administration eventually. £500K would have eased their immediate crisis, but they would have just faced the same problem in 3 months or so. Just as the £1M raised by the fans eased the crisis last autumn for a few months.

Sounds like more timewasting / grandstanding by the Scandinavians, TBH. They would have known full well that the Hearts management would not take that offer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

£500k, only on condition that the directors guaranteed that they wouldn't go into administration and that they could share profits from selling players.

There's no way that the directors could have made that guarantee. £500K would have eased their immediate crisis, but they would have just faced the same problem in 3 months or so.

Sounds like more timewasting / grandstanding by the Scandinavians, TBH. They would have known full well that the Hearts management would not take that offer.

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They also wanted to know the full extent of the debt at Tynecastle. Maybe the current board simply can't provide answers on that.

Ouch ...

Picked up from KB on a thread about Jamie Walker

And they wonder why they've got themselves into soooo much bother.



"Don't know the original poster fro Adam but he isn't far off the mark.

Jamie is now back from his holiday in Egypt.

He was expecting to sign a new deal at £2500pw which is I would imagine is now off the table.

Wigan and Huns are the two teams I was told as well."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by green day

In the BBC story, there is a Q&A which mentions selling assets including their Rickarton training base.

Just goes to show that these BBC journos just regurgitate keech like BAnderson.

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Brian McLauchlin has shown himself to be completely out of his depth with Hearts' financials.

..... at this rate, the UKIO administrator will have to pay FOH to take Tynie of their hands.

Foundation chairman Ian Murray MP warned Valnetas that there would have to be a compromise over their twin desires to preserving Hearts as a going concern and defending the interests of Ukio’s creditors. “They did say that they wanted Hearts to be a going concern – they have to protect what they have got,” he said. “What do they have at the moment? They have a club in administration and a stadium worth £4m.

“They can whistle in the wind, really. They have to be careful that they don’t walk away with nothing and take the club with them.”

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...fate-1-2970172

To be fair, I suppose the stadium is worth less than £4M, but the land value is worth a wee bit more.

GGTTH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibs07p

.....
“They can whistle in the wind, really. They have to be careful that they don’t walk away with nothing and take the club with them.”

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'Whistle in the wind '.. Apparently is a complex negotiating term to be used when trying to persuade a foreign bank not to sell your land and sell your players but I wouldn't understand #allverycomplex

The yams have really landed on their feet with this bright cookie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibs07p

..... at this rate, the UKIO administrator will have to pay FOH to take Tynie of their hands.

Foundation chairman Ian Murray MP warned Valnetas that there would have to be a compromise over their twin desires to preserving Hearts as a going concern and defending the interests of Ukio’s creditors. “They did say that they wanted Hearts to be a going concern – they have to protect what they have got,” he said. “What do they have at the moment? They have a club in administration and a stadium worth £4m.

“They can whistle in the wind, really. They have to be careful that they don’t walk away with nothing and take the club with them.”

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...fate-1-2970172

To be fair, I suppose the stadium is worth less than £4M, but the land value is worth a wee bit more.

GGTTH

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"They have to be careful they don't walk away with nothing"

Is that not pretty much impossible? At the very least they'll be able to sell tynecastle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beefster

Brian McLauchlin has shown himself to be completely out of his depth with Hearts' financials.

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over the last year the media in general have made complete ***** of themselves between this and the Rangers one. Thanks to a few folk on here like Sergey, CWG, Cav, Desantos and a few others who keep us informed.

Attachment 10345
"Barry you're out of your element - the Scandinavian is not the issue here"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monktonharp

ok, while we're at it, have they/will they paty the council tax/rates? who empties their buckets?

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Nothing, prior to Hearts going into administration, will now be paid and anyone owed money just gets in the queue. Given that UKIO have a security on the stadium and a floating charge on the assets if they are expecting any sort of payout they will be disappointed. I do expect the queue to be a lengthy one and the list of creditors will be interesting.

Any expenses incurred between entering admin and exiting it will, ultimately, be paid by the buyer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drummer

Hearts in administration reminds me of an old song. The Muckin "o" GORGIES byre

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Have you got a tune for that?:greengrin

If the editors had any brains they'd get business journalists not sports journalists on these stories...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ...WentToMowAnSPL

Scary or Pleasing?
Hearts going into liquidation and life as a newco is inevitable, says former colleague of Vladimir ... http://t.co/3RoiSxWWPT

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"With debts now touching £25m..."

That horse has bolted and we can now assume nearer the £30m mark or even beyond.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras

Attachment 10345
"Barry you're out of your element - the Scandinavian is not the issue here"

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"Who's the Scandinavian Dude ?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

Nothing, prior to Hearts going into administration, will now be paid and anyone owed money just gets in the queue. Given that UKIO have a security on the stadium and a floating charge on the assets if they are expecting any sort of payout they will be disappointed. I do expect the queue to be a lengthy one and the list of creditors will be interesting.

Any expenses incurred between entering admin and exiting it will, ultimately, be paid by the buyer.

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That's not right either. The administrator fees are paid by the buyer, but the company has to generate enough income to pay for its ongoing costs incurred from the date of administration. One way of doing that is to cut the ongoing costs by laying off staff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

"With debts now touching £25m..."

That horse has bolted and we can now assume nearer the £30m mark or even beyond.

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Jambo myth of the week seems to be that "Romanov left us £25M debt, which was the same as the Pieman".

Which is true, if you ignore the fact that the Pieman left them with just under £20M in debt. And the fact that he had done a deal to get rid of that debt. Which they then very publicly opposed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

That's not right either. The administrator fees are paid by the buyer, but the company has to generate enough income to pay for its ongoing costs incurred from the date of administration. One way of doing that is to cut the ongoing costs by laying off staff.

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They've not got any income just now at all so is it fair to say this is likely to be a very quick administration then? I just don't see how they'll pay bills when they come in, even if they get rid of every employee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bingo70

They've not got any income just now at all so is it fair to say this is likely to be a very quick administration then? I just don't see how they'll pay bills when they come in, even if they get rid of every employee.

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About to say the same bingo. They've no money to pay staff now. Liquidation looming?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bingo70

They've not got any income just now at all so is it fair to say this is likely to be a very quick administration then? I just don't see how they'll pay bills when they come in, even if they get rid of every employee.

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I don't think it will work that way. New bills won't hit for at least a couple of weeks (not much point sending them one now), which will give the administrator a little bit of time to assess things - is there a realistic buyer, can they sell (Lithuanian legal situation), what income is there really, etc. If they can get through to the end of July then it could drag on for a longer period with the SPL income paid out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberSauzee

About to say the same bingo. They've no money to pay staff now. Liquidation looming?

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Hopefully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bingo70

They've not got any income just now at all so is it fair to say this is likely to be a very quick administration then? I just don't see how they'll pay bills when they come in, even if they get rid of every employee.

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Yes, this surely is the end game for them now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rcarter1

For reading addicted insomniacs...

Hearts. An Edinburgh Institution. A bit like RBS. Both institutions pushed the financial boat far too far from the shore. RBS, bailed by the government, the tax payer, continues to trade. The future of Hearts remains in the balance. Perhaps the Edinburgh rate payer should foot the 25 million bill? Or perhaps the UK government should lean on the Lithuanians to foot the bill – all in order for a football club to continue in its present form. A football club, that like RBS was the sole architect in its own downfall. Both examples of the hubris that rages throughout the capitalist free market economic model.
So how should Scottish football judge this sorry mess? On the one hand, having lost Rangers from the league, an argument can be made for protecting another prominent club from folding. This argument is based on very loose assertions that the SPL cannot survive, or is devalued without Hearts. The survival argument is tenuous at best – given that the loss of Rangers was far less damaging than had been predicted. The bottom line is, Hearts as an organisation created their current situation, and it is difficult to see why anyone should pay for their poor management.
Football is an emotive business of course. Sport attracts supporters in a way no other industry quite matches. A contest that epitomises the competitive spirit, it is pride that is at stake for those who pay through the turnstiles. This is the other side of the argument for those interested bystanders watching from the side lines. Apart from the legalities of debt and financial fair play, sporting integrity is what matters most to many of Scotland’s football supporters. Supporters who see their pride damaged on the pitch by opponents gaining unfair financial advantage inevitably have no sympathy for those opponents suffering when the debts are recalled. The supporters of Hibernian have more reason than most to hope for financial justice to be done to their rivals across the city. Years of derby domination by Hearts has been a hard slog for these supporters, in the knowledge that their own club were trying their hardest to make ends meet. The overwhelming sense of superiority held by many Hearts fans in this period, was all down to the financial plan of one man, Vladimir Romanov. That his vision ultimately failed, his businesses bankrupt, and his financial support for Hearts withdrawn, is no direct fault of the Hearts fans, or any employee of the club. Nonetheless by buying into his vision, accepting his wages, shouting from the rooftops at their glory, they cannot now avoid facing whatever fate befalls them – and can expect no sympathy.
The 25 million pounds owed by Hearts to UKIO/UBIG, is ultimately part of a large pool of debt owed to a host of creditors - probably including Lithuanian taxpayers, who have no interest in Hearts or Scottish football. It is a sign of the mean and callous side of human nature, that there are many who would be happy to see these creditors foot the bill for all those players that passed through the gates of Tynecastle. After all they are in Lithuania right? Surely we just send a gun boat to the Baltic Sea and call the whole thing quits. Or perhaps, the organisation responsible for accumulating this debt should be held accountable. If this results in the Stadium being sold, the club being liquidated, then how can this be seen to be in anyway unfair, or even harsh? For sure there will be many people associated with Hearts who will be devastated, many club employees looking for jobs. Is it the Lithuanian creditor who is at fault and should suffer instead? Loss of jobs is always a personal tragedy, and it is an indictment of our society that a person can – through no fault of their own – go from respectable contributor, to drain on society overnight. Once again however it is Hearts financial imprudence that has most directly led to this.
From this observers view point, I hope that a Hearts team plays football, if not now, but in the future. In the meantime, I also hope that they reap what they have sown.

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Truly excellent, thanks! Was this you or is it lifted from somewhere? Possibly the best overall summation I've seen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

"Who's the Scandinavian Dude ?"

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:greengrin

"This is a very complicated case. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous. And, uh, a lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head. Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

I don't think it will work that way. New bills won't hit for at least a couple of weeks (not much point sending them one now), which will give the administrator a little bit of time to assess things - is there a realistic buyer, can they sell (Lithuanian legal situation), what income is there really, etc. If they can get through to the end of July then it could drag on for a longer period with the SPL income paid out.

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Fair point, most companies offer 30 day payment terms as well which presumably will help them as well.

Sure I read a quote on here, think it was the pm board though, that when livi got relegated to the third division it was because they couldn't guarantee they'd be able to complete there fixtures, I wonder if the SPL will be looking for guarantees before dishing out any tv money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

That's not right either. The administrator fees are paid by the buyer, but the company has to generate enough income to pay for its ongoing costs incurred from the date of administration. One way of doing that is to cut the ongoing costs by laying off staff.

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Do the administrators costs start counting immediately as ongoing costs just in case there is no buyer ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bingo70

They've not got any income just now at all so is it fair to say this is likely to be a very quick administration then? I just don't see how they'll pay bills when they come in, even if they get rid of every employee.

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:agree: administration will have stopped even the most stupid of Yams from buying season tickets and no one is going to give them credit, so cash flow must be an issue for them. They have no money. The admins will not want to spend £££ working for an insolvent company and will want this wrapped up quickly or at least start selling assets to generate cash. Bottom line: Yams are in a perilous position, especially if BDO are appointed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberSauzee

About to say the same bingo. They've no money to pay staff now. Liquidation looming?

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You're up early S! I posted identical a couple of days ago. Unless they can quickly sell some players, most unlikely, they have no income until start of next season & continual outgoings. I think administrators, will stick their head in (with a hobo clothes peg on their nose) take one look & sniff & declare this is a dead club, sorry institution.
They're doomed!!

Just about to head to bed here in Canada.. It is really quite exciting to wake up and see what more damage has happened to our 'poor' neighbours during the days proceedings :greengrin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Do the administrators costs start counting immediately as ongoing costs just in case there is no buyer ?

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The Admins will only work if there is a realistic chance of them getting paid through currently cash-flow or the sale of the business as a going concern. If there is no cash or prospective buyers offering realistic money, then liquidation (incl sale of Tynie) will quickly follow.

Perhaps a list of the people shafted by Hearts not paying bills will put an end to all this "proud and famous club" guff. It sickens me that, despite their public disgrace, they continue to cling on to their own myths.

They seem to be going down the road of their big cousins. One of the criticisms of the Huns was their failure to be contrite, and hold their hands up to apologise.

FoH seem to be continuing the line that Hearts are a club with massive potential. Within Scotland, yes they could be occasional contenders (in about 10 years time). But the very fact that they seem to allude to bigger ambitions, suggests to me that their survival plan is to chase the same pipe dreams.

It seems to me that the Yam is more interested in being a big man, than simply having a team to follow. I would urge the sensible fans to do an FC United of Manchester, and start again from the bottom.

Heart of Midlothian is now such a poisoned institution that it should be dismantled once and for all. Their need to be the dominant force in Edinburgh football has totally blinded them to reality. They are the same size of club as us, and all the bluster, arrogance and conceit has cost them a heavy price.

This whole saga is an old fashioned morality tale. It's about two different sets of values, and how they impact on the people that hold them. The wise man built his house upon the rock and all that.