Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Captain Trips

So if something is not a deliberate act you cannot blame then blame it? What can be gained by apportioning blame? There are loads of posters blaming the government have you stated that question about apportioning blame to them?

I am not and have never said the UK has dealt with this perfectly. They haven't but people continually blaming them is helping no more than me blaming source more.

I could list lots of plane crashes where maintenance did not do their jobs correctly not on purpose just made mistakes but as not done on purpose you cannot blame them?

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I actually can’t even work out what your argument is anymore. I’m not even sure you know. So your thoughts are, it’s all China’s fault because the virus started there, and our government is entirely blameless for their handling of it because if it wasn’t for the Chinese there would be no virus?

I think I’ll just leave you to it.

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Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

Wait a minute, do you think people on this thread are blaming the UK government for the outbreak of Coronavirus!? Is that your comprehension of what is being discussed?

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Nobody is blaming the government for the outbreak of the virus, they're to blame for the utter shambolic management of the crisis that has lead to thousands of unnecessary deaths. Their handling of the crisis is at best shambolic and at worst intentional culpable negligence.

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Originally Posted by Captain Trips

I have no desire for revenge so therefore you are generalising with that remark on people who might lay blame down for things. Why can I not blame but also accept and learn why would blame eliminate any of the 3 things you prefer to do? So will the people blaming the government have this same instinct? If so are you not more concerned about that instinct from them as there are a lot more who feel this way than me?

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The Govt can change the deaths we are experiencing now (or could have)

Whatever caused the outbreak, at this point, can't.

Sure we try and find out what started this (and it is most likely a natural mutation of a known virus-who do we blame then?) and see if we can stop it in the future

An virus like this was always talked about as being likely though (be it 1, 5, 10 or 20 years away)

Our Govt simply grossly underestimated or quite likley worse, chose the path we are now on knowing the facts.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

All this bickering about who did what, said what, didn't do what. Stop it!

Let's look to the future. There is something we all surely now agree on - we need to pay a lot more tax to future-proof our health service.

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Originally Posted by Captain Trips

I don't feel the need it seems a natural process to me to blame somebody for this. Same as I would just naturally blame somebody for killing a person or for stealing my lunch out fridge at work. Its not a major thought process I have read and heard enough to be comfortable in blaming as I have stated.

If you do not feel a need to place blame that's fine for you but I'm not you and your not me. Out of interest are there any major events you apportion blame too?

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Butterfly, wings and tornado.

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Originally Posted by EH6 Hibby

I actually can’t even work out what your argument is anymore. I’m not even sure you know. So your thoughts are, it’s all China’s fault because the virus started there, and our government is entirely blameless for their handling of it because if it wasn’t for the Chinese there would be no virus?

I think I’ll just leave you to it.

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Simple for you I blame China first and foremost I then blame our government for errors made. If you can point out when I said the government were blameless then please do. You almost grasped until you used blameless.

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Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

Wait a minute, do you think people on this thread are blaming the UK government for the outbreak of Coronavirus!? Is that your comprehension of what is being discussed?

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Again can you point me to where I said people are blaming the government for the outbreak? In your head I think. People are blaming the government for how it has been handled im blaming the handling of the thing in first place our government 2nd. So I would rather you didnt just assume my thoughts and/or simply make up stuff "do you think people on this thread are blaming the UK government for the outbreak of Coronavirus"

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Butterfly, wings and tornado.

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Jumpers for goalposts.

1. I blame first and foremost the death of every human on the agreed facts at least on where it began and or on the individual (s) irrespective of how they caused it

2. As far as my own country goes I believe we could have prevented deaths with different handling of the crisis from an earlier stage, we will never know what the death toll could have been if dealt with it better, of course would have been lower.

If you disagree fine Im happy with my thoughts on it all as you will be with your thoughts. So pointless discussion now as I aint agreeing and neither are you.

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Originally Posted by Captain Trips

1. I blame first and foremost the death of every human on the agreed facts at least on where it began and or on the individual (s) irrespective of how they caused it

2. As far as my own country goes I believe we could have prevented deaths with different handling of the crisis from an earlier stage, we will never know what the death toll could have been if dealt with it better, of course would have been lower.

If you disagree fine Im happy with my thoughts on it all as you will be with your thoughts. So pointless discussion now as I aint agreeing and neither are you.

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2. The science and especially the mathematics tell us pretty accurately what the numbers would be depending on what course we take. Even more so retrospectively.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

2. The science and especially the mathematics tell us pretty accurately what the numbers would be depending on what course we take. Even more so retrospectively.

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1. I blame first and foremost the death of every human on the agreed facts at least on where it began and or on the individual (s) irrespective of how they caused it

2. As far as my own country goes I believe we could have prevented deaths with different handling of the crisis from an earlier stage, we will never know what the death toll could have been if dealt with it better, of course would have been lower.

If you disagree fine Im happy with my thoughts on it all as you will be with your thoughts. So pointless discussion now as I aint agreeing and neither are you.

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Originally Posted by Captain Trips

I have no desire for revenge so therefore you are generalising with that remark on people who might lay blame down for things. Why can I not blame but also accept and learn why would blame eliminate any of the 3 things you prefer to do? So will the people blaming the government have this same instinct? If so are you not more concerned about that instinct from them as there are a lot more who feel this way than me?

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So who are you blaming? The bats?

China's official figures show their highest daily number of infections jumped up to 108 which is their highest number in over a month.

Some better news though is that Italy's death toll is the lowest in over three weeks. Great news for them.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

China's official figures show their highest daily number of infections jumped up to 108 which is their highest number in over a month.

Some better news though is that Italy's death toll is the lowest in over three weeks. Great news for them.

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It's worrying news from China. Apparently the majority of these latest infections are people who have recently returned to the country, sparking fears of a fresh wave of infections.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

It's worrying news from China. Apparently the majority of these latest deaths are people who have recently returned to the country, sparking fears of a fresh wave of infections.

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Yeah I think it's inevitable though, until a vaccine is found, that we're going to see a jump in numbers as soon as restrictions are relaxed and you allow people to move more freely. A full lockdown is the only measure we have to defend against it right now, it's the only thing holding the virus back.

With a vaccine thought to be at least a year away, a full lockdown for 12-18 months isn't possible so unfortunately I think we're going to see jumps like this all over the world for some time to come.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Yeah I think it's inevitable though, until a vaccine is found, that we're going to see a jump in numbers as soon as restrictions are relaxed and you allow people to move more freely. A full lockdown is the only measure we have to defend against it right now, it's the only thing holding the virus back.

With a vaccine thought to be at least a year away, a full lockdown for 12-18 months isn't possible so unfortunately I think we're going to see jumps like this all over the world for some time to come.

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There was an article in the 'science' pages of The Observer yesterday which suggested it isn't inconceivable that we'll see a vaccine this year ("months, or even weeks") given the speed of work taking place. However, if that is the case it would only be available to those sections of the community regarded as vulnerable. The 12-18 months generally spoken about is the most realistic prediction for any mass rollout to the population.

I'm sure you're right; this side of a vaccine, we're going to see jumps in countries where the lockdown is lifted. It will be about managing those jumps once the total infected is down to a controllable level. I suppose the development of a drug which allows it to be treated would help too, presumably work is still progressing on that front.

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Originally Posted by EH6 Hibby

The people of Wuhan didn’t get together and decide to create a virus and unleash it on the world. They have a very different culture and it’s unfortunate that this virus has managed to transmit to humans due to their way of life. I would hope that lessons will be learned, but this could have originated anywhere, all it would take is for someone to be bitten by an animal carrying a virus that previously only existed in animals but has somehow mutated.

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Once the virus was detected China seem to have acted pretty well in controlling it. They were also highly praised by WHO in terms of sharing data when a team visited Wuhan. Are you believing Trump propaganda?

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Originally Posted by Captain Trips

I have no desire for revenge so therefore you are generalising with that remark on people who might lay blame down for things. Why can I not blame but also accept and learn why would blame eliminate any of the 3 things you prefer to do? So will the people blaming the government have this same instinct? If so are you not more concerned about that instinct from them as there are a lot more who feel this way than me?

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You still haven't answered my question, so I will leave it there.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

You still haven't answered my question, so I will leave it there.

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Yes but that's not his fault. The fault lies at the source. Source of the question = you. It's your fault he didn't answer the question.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Yeah I think it's inevitable though, until a vaccine is found, that we're going to see a jump in numbers as soon as restrictions are relaxed and you allow people to move more freely. A full lockdown is the only measure we have to defend against it right now, it's the only thing holding the virus back.

With a vaccine thought to be at least a year away, a full lockdown for 12-18 months isn't possible so unfortunately I think we're going to see jumps like this all over the world for some time to come.

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It's also not yet known for certain whether recovering from Covid-19 ensures immunity from being infected again . At present this seems only a presumption.

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Originally Posted by SideBurns

There was an article in the 'science' pages of The Observer yesterday which suggested it isn't inconceivable that we'll see a vaccine this year ("months, or even weeks") given the speed of work taking place. However, if that is the case it would only be available to those sections of the community regarded as vulnerable. The 12-18 months generally spoken about is the most realistic prediction for any mass rollout to the population.

I'm sure you're right; this side of a vaccine, we're going to see jumps in countries where the lockdown is lifted. It will be about managing those jumps once the total infected is down to a controllable level. I suppose the development of a drug which allows it to be treated would help too, presumably work is still progressing on that front.

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Let's hope so. Hopefully if it is sped up that it's still passing all the clinical trials before it is used for "real". I'm sure it will be as there's scientists all over the world working on this.

The only thing worrying me is that there's no vaccine for the common cold of which coronaviruses make up a small number of strains and even more of a concern is that SARS and MERS, which are both coronaviruses and closely related to Covid-19, also do not yet have a vaccine for humans that's considered to be safe and effective and that's after nearly 20 years since SARS was discovered.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

It's also not yet known for certain whether recovering from Covid-19 ensures immunity from being infected again . At present this seems only a presumption.

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https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/51-rec...n-south-korea/

Seems it can lie dormant and reactivate if this is to be believed

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Let's hope so. Hopefully if it is sped up that it's still passing all the clinical trials before it is used for "real". I'm sure it will be as there's scientists all over the world working on this.

The only thing worrying me is that there's no vaccine for the common cold of which coronaviruses make up a small number of strains and even more of a concern is that SARS and MERS, which are both coronaviruses and closely related to Covid-19, also do not yet have a vaccine for humans that's considered to be safe and effective and that's after nearly 20 years since SARS was discovered.

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That's because after the fear and urgency of finding a cure when you are in the heat of a pandemic is over that funding gets cut for reasearch looking into cures, I've seen so many people who make vaccines being interviewed and saying the same thing, they get flung money at them and are made to rush to get a vaccine, then when it clears up a bit the funding goes

They all say with the adequate funding they would have had a vaccine for them by now, if we learn anything from this it has to be that the scientific community are given a ****load of cash to develop these things

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/51-rec...n-south-korea/

Seems it can lie dormant and reactivate if this is to be believed

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Also a suggestion in that article that it might just be the testing was flawed and that the patients hadn't actually recovered.

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Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4

That's because after the fear and urgency of finding a cure when you are in the heat of a pandemic is over that funding gets cut for reasearch looking into cures, I've seen so many people who make vaccines being interviewed and saying the same thing, they get flung money at them and are made to rush to get a vaccine, then when it clears up a bit the funding goes

They all say with the adequate funding they would have had a vaccine for them by now, if we learn anything from this it has to be that the scientific community are given a ****load of cash to develop these things

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We can only hope that is the case.

I would have thought a cold vaccine would have been possible by now but I suppose people don't die from the cold which is the difference with this illness.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Let's hope so. Hopefully if it is sped up that it's still passing all the clinical trials before it is used for "real". I'm sure it will be as there's scientists all over the world working on this.

The only thing worrying me is that there's no vaccine for the common cold of which coronaviruses make up a small number of strains and even more of a concern is that SARS and MERS, which are both coronaviruses and closely related to Covid-19, also do not yet have a vaccine for humans that's considered to be safe and effective and that's after nearly 20 years since SARS was discovered.

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WHO have approved a fast-track process which keeps the safeguards in place. Any vaccine will still need to pass clinical trials, the technological advancements of the last 5 years are what allow vaccines to be developed quicker when necessary (according to the article).

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

We can only hope that is the case.

I would have thought a cold vaccine would have been possible by now but I suppose people don't die from the cold which is the difference with this illness.

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There are so many different strains of the cold virus, well over 100, that a vaccine is near impossible and, because of how mild the illness is, financially not viable.

There was a good article earlier in this thread about why a vaccine for this virus is simpler to develop than the flu vaccine. Have a read, it explains how the make up of the coronavirus means it can't mutate as easily as flu, the cold etc.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Why the need for blame, though?

We in the West have this attachment to a blame culture, which is such a negative attitude. Blame-driven recrimination rarely puts things right.

Surely acceptance and management are far more important, followed by learning lessons.

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Well said 👍 To quote Ballboy:

"I hate the way everything always has to be someone's fault
Even though some things just happened
Some things just happened!"

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

We can only hope that is the case.

I would have thought a cold vaccine would have been possible by now but I suppose people don't die from the cold which is the difference with this illness.

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The problem there is there's several hundred viruses that cause what we call the common cold. The common cold is more a description of the wide ranging symptoms caused by any one of many viruses.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

It's worrying news from China. Apparently the majority of these latest infections are people who have recently returned to the country, sparking fears of a fresh wave of infections.

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The good news is that those infected are in a controlled environment. International arrivals are placed in designated hotels for the 14-day quarantine period. They're not running around passing the virus from person to person.