But we know who many Americans will listen to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
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But we know who many Americans will listen to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Since I watched him storm out of the update yesterday I have had Jethro Tull as an earworm, as the kids seem to call it. Thick as a brick! Honestly can't get it out of my head
Detest Trump but there are a few alternative reports on Facui linking him to Bill Gates and Vaccines which make interesting readingQuote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
There is lots of money to be made in America in this area and lots of patents were taken out
The Aids Epidemic showed that some treatments that could of saved lives earlier were blocked in favour of me that was actually killing people
Dallas Buyer Club is a film based on a true story
Sadly there is money to be made out of Pandemic s
However would not Trust Trump that’s for sure
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Take it Trump knew who this lady was when he answered ask China? as until she took off her mask and glasses I couldn't have told you she was Asian American
I'm not sure if US briefings work the same way as the UK ones with the name and organisation of the reporter being called before the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
If they do then I assume would think Weijia Jiang might have been a bit of a giveaway.
Didn't see any of the build up to it all, just saw her ask the question and his answer, didn't even know the ladies name to be honest, what a total mentalist he is :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
I asked the same question myself. While not seeking to defend Trump, I’m not totally convinced the answer is racist: if he had delivered the same answer to a non-Asian American journalist, would it be considered a racist response?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
I'm not sure if I've just missed it from a few days ago, but he also had a ridiculous interaction with a nurse.
He and a group of nurses behind him were asked about PPE and obviously he wanted to give it the whole "millions of PPE, the best PPE in the world, I got it all and it's all great".
One of the nurses said that her experience and that of her colleagues suggested that PPE provision was sporadic with not everywhere being adequately covered.
Trump immediately got defensive and came out with a brilliant quote of: "Well it's maybe sporadic for you, but it's not sporadic for a lot of others".
I think that's the point though. Would he have said the same to a non-Asian American reporter? Worth point out his response to the incident on Twitter was as below:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesie
“Asian Americans are VERY angry at what China has done to our Country, and the World. Chinese Americans are the most angry of all. I don’t blame them!”
Well it cant be proved what he would have said if was not an Asian American IMO it is not racist, it is though bizarre and I wonder what the "unusual answer" is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
If he had a blemish free record it would be nice to be able to give the President of the United States of America the benefit of the doubt for what is obviously a misunderstanding.
Sadly...
IIRC, he had a run in with the same journalist not that long ago. He knew exactly who she was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Hello
My first post. I have been viewing these boards for many years and I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road. It has taken what's going on in the world now to get me to join up as people seriously need to know what is going on. From the start of this I have had a feeling there is more to what is going on than the virus so a few weeks ago I starting looking around for answers.
I have come across a lot of information, some very interesting and disturbing. It's going to take a while to dig out the key information and I am still working fulltime so please bear with me. I have a day of tomorrow so will try and get some info posted then. For starters as the previous poster says Dr Fauci and Bill Gates are closely linked and that's not a good thing. I know and understand why you are all rubbishing Donald Trump but you may have a different opinion soon.
Please be nice. You are going to think I am a nutcase. I am not, far from it. Please bear with me for a while even if you think this and when you see the truth spread the news as that's the reason I am doing this, as many people as possible need to know what is going on. There are already many people around the world who know but we need to have many more.
Start by searching for 'out of the shadows documentary' on youtube. It's currently about a third of the way down the first page and runs for just under 78 mins. After watching you might think whats this got to do with the virus, there is a connection.
Cheers
You can’t ever ‘prove’ racist intent definitively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
You can watch a persons pattern of behaviour and come to the obvious conclusion though.
He’s obviously racist, his track record is clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Can you provide a summary please?
His answer was nothing to do with the colour of the reporters skin. It was to do with the company she works for.
HiQuote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Welcome to the board.
I'm interested to see how this develops.
You might want to start a new thread on it though - it possibly deserves one rather than being stuck in with Donald Trump's daily acts of lunacy.
I have heard quite a lot of what you are probably about to go on to say. I'd like to say I have an open mind on it and I think I do, but you'll have a job on your hands convincing many that it isn't just a wacky conspiracy theory.
There is an election later this year and at this point in time nothing matters more to Donald Trump than to get reelected. He will not let anyone or anything stand in his way and would see millions of people die with no regret whatsoever in order to make that happen, as we'll likely see over the coming weeks.
So I'm calling it now - Trump-esque lowest common denominator stuff designed to smear all the people he doesn't like and make him look like the good guy. It will go down well with the few right-wing nut jobs who hang out here. It will be given short shrift from the rest. Highly polished and appearing almost credible at times, it will dissolve under scrutiny leaving you howling "fake news" etc.
Still, bring it on...
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Thanks for the welcome. Nothing to do with what you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I have been viewing threads on here for many years because I am a Hibs fan, never joined any forum before. Don't want to sound naff, but I don't really want to join now and do this because I know I am going to be slated by some. Some will see what I, and many others see, and spread the news, that's all I am looking for.
Fair enough I will rephrase. If a white skinned reporter from that company had asked the same question they would have got the same reply. I am not really here to defend Trump and I'm not going to argue with folk.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
I'll say what I have to say and leave.
I think it probably was aimed at the lady's ethnicity but I personally felt his whole attitude during that exchange by eventually walking out of the press conference when it clearly hadn't finished was the worst bit, just because he was getting asked a few awkward questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesie
He's so thin skinned it's unbelievable and cannot take any criticism.
Instead of pre-empting how people are going to respond, why don’t you present your thoughts and opinions on the matter and let people make their mind up.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Welcome. Let me get my popcorn.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Any chance you can summarise the documentary before you leave?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Thanks will give it a watch Have only recently come across this stuff and find it interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can you just let me know if the virus is caused / spread by 5G? It'll save time later.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
I’m not a believer in the conspiracy theories around Dr Fauci...and the facts seem to back this up
There has been a rumour and implication that Fauci and Gates relationship is a conflict of interest. This has been investigated by independent institutions and viewed as an inaccurate representation. He does sit on The leadership council for a Gates sponsored vaccines collaboration initiative. Gates doesn’t sit on this council . it is part of the Gates charity foundation though , which is making charitable donations to organisations such as WHO and other parties - it is not a profit nor revenue generating entity...
Fauci has worked for the last 30 plus years as a public servant and advisor to presidents . Viewed as a strong consistent performer throughout his career
The biggest “charge” (rumour) is that Gates has created a COVID vaccine and is due to benefit from this pandemic ..again independent research has concluded this is not true (suggestions for example he worked on this with the pilbright institute have subsequently been found to be false accusations ...
Trump and his administration are constantly looking to deflect blame through false accusations..this smells of another when they are under the microscope ...I’m waging that this is where the real issue is...
What are you saying?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
Another conspiracy theorist donut joins the thread. Some absolute belters out there. 🙄
Just out of curiosity how do you know they would have got the same reply?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
So why are you defending him? No-one is asking you to.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeedc
What are you here for?
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgo
The amount of nonsense I have seen over the last couple of months is crazy and the amount of people who are citing their ‘sources’ as a YouTube clip, give me strength.
Here's a conspiracy theory for you. Why is it that everyone who opposes, contradicts or threatens Donald Trump's image are subjects of conspiracy theories? :hmmm:
To be honest the internet (here included) has become bizarre during lockdown. I am no better or worse neither am I judging anyone but conspiracy theories are all over the shop. The only thing I am sure of is Trump and Boris are absolute idiots and not fit to run a bath let alone a country
AmenQuote:
Originally Posted by wpj
I'm concerned by how convincing conspiracy theories can now be as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by wpj
It isn't difficult to put together a polished video, have a serious and credible interviewer asking questions of "a scientist" and put something together that on the face of it looks like it is the real deal.
You don't want to appear closed minded and I've probably given more nonsense the time of day than I would have in the past, but it can be challenging.
. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...66ea559949.jpg
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
I see hes turned on Fauci now.
Purely for telling the truth instead of the Trump narrative.
His answer to the journalist's question only really comes close to making sense if it was either racist or questioning her integrity/impartiality.
Unfortunately, so much of what comes out of his mouth makes no sense that it's difficult to apply rational reasoning to his utterances.
The wording he used was the giveaway here - he said that Fauci's position wasn't "acceptable". He gave no detail as to why, suggestingit's s only unacceptable because it's contrary to Trump's own interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee
It makes you wonder how many other viewpoints he's dismissed on this basis.
David Ike thinks that the Gates vaccine will contain nanoprobes that will be able to track and control our minds. He’s a guy that knows his stuff. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by bigwheel
Aye but he needs 5G pylons to make it all work, and even then you can deflect their signal by wearing a colander with a TV aerial sticking out the top as a helmet.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Donald Trump's already interested in developing more of these safety devices than any other country.
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Seems like hibeedc may have been silenced by the deep state just before he was about to reveal the truth to us about Bill Gates’ New World Order plan for world domination via mass vaccinations and brainwashing by 5G signals. Hopefully he can escape their clutches and teach us all to see what he sees, preferably through the medium of youtube videos which solicit “donations” for their truth seeking creators.
Ft paywall. Can you cut n paste?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Oh, it let me read following a link from twitter. Anyway, here you goQuote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
Quote:
When the history is written of how America handled the global era’s first real pandemic, March*6 will leap out of the timeline. That was the day Donald Trump visited the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. His foray to the world’s best disease research body was meant to showcase that America had everything under control. It came midway between the time he was still denying the coronavirus posed a threat and the moment he said he had always known it could ravage America.
Shortly before the CDC visit, Trump said “within a couple of days, [infections are] going to be down to close to zero”. The US then had 15 cases. “One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.” A few days afterwards, he claimed: “I’ve felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.” That afternoon at the CDC provides an X-ray into Trump’s mind at the halfway point between denial and acceptance.
We now know that Covid-19 had already passed the breakout point in the US. The contagion had been spreading for weeks in New*York, Washington state and other clusters. The curve was pointing sharply upwards. Trump’s goal in Atlanta was to assert the opposite.
Wearing his “Keep America Great” baseball cap, the US president was flanked by Robert Redfield, head of the CDC, Alex Azar, the US secretary of health and human services, and Brian Kemp, governor of Georgia. In his 47-minute interaction with the press, Trump rattled through his greatest hits.
He dismissed CNN as fake news, boasted about his high Fox News viewership, cited the US stock market’s recent highs, called Washington state’s Democratic governor a “snake” and admitted he hadn’t known that large numbers of people could die from ordinary flu. He also misunderstood a question on whether he should cancel campaign rallies for public health reasons. “I haven’t had any problems filling [the stadiums],” Trump said.
What caught the media’s attention were two comments he made about the disease. There would be four million testing kits available within a week. “The tests are beautiful,” he said. “Anybody that needs a test gets a test.”
Donald Trump at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta on March 6 with, from left, Alex Azar, secretary of health and human services, Robert Redfield, CDC director, and Steve Monroe, associate director for laboratory science and safety at the CDC © Jim Watson/AFP/Getty Images
Ten weeks later, that is still not close to being true. Fewer than 3 per cent of Americans had been tested by mid-May. Trump also boasted about his grasp of science. He cited a “super genius” uncle, John Trump, who taught at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and implied he inherited his intellect. “I really get it,” he said. “Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability.” Historians might linger on that observation too.
What the headlines missed was a boast that posterity will take more seriously than Trump’s self-estimated IQ, or the exaggerated test numbers (the true number of CDC kits by March was 75,000). Trump proclaimed that America was leading the world. South Korea had its first infection on January 20, the same day as America’s first case, and was, he said, calling America for help. “They have a lot of people that are infected; we don’t.” “All I say is, ‘Be calm,’” said the president. “Everyone is relying on us. The world is relying on us.”
America is first in the world in deaths, first in the world in infections and we stand out as an emblem of global incompetence
William Burns, former US diplomat
He could just as well have said baseball is popular or foreigners love New York. American leadership in any disaster, whether a tsunami or an Ebola outbreak, has been a truism for decades. The US is renowned for helping others in an emergency.
In hindsight, Trump’s claim to global leadership leaps out. History will mark Covid-19 as the first time that ceased to be true. US airlifts have been missing in action. America cannot even supply itself.
South Korea, which has a population density nearly 15 times greater and is next door to China, has lost a total of 259 lives to the disease. There have been days when America has lost 10 times that number. The US death toll is now approaching 90,000.
What has gone wrong? I interviewed dozens of people, including outsiders who Trump consults regularly, former senior advisers, World Health Organization officials, leading scientists and diplomats, and figures inside the White House. Some spoke off the record.
Again and again, the story that emerged is of a president who ignored increasingly urgent intelligence warnings from January, dismisses anyone who claims to know more than him and trusts no one outside a tiny coterie, led by his daughter Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner – the property developer who Trump has empowered to sideline the best-funded disaster response bureaucracy in the world.
People often observed during Trump’s first three years that he had yet to be tested in a true crisis. Covid-19 is way bigger than that. “Trump’s handling of the pandemic at home and abroad has exposed more painfully than anything since he took office the meaning of America First,” says William Burns, who was the most senior US diplomat, and is now head of the Carnegie Endowment.
“America is first in the world in deaths, first in the world in infections and we stand out as an emblem of global incompetence. The damage to America’s influence and reputation will be very hard to undo.”
Coffins of people who have died from Covid-19 lined up in a funeral home in Queens, New York. Recent estimates suggest 135,000 people will die by late July © Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
The psychology behind Trump’s inaction on Covid-19 was on display that afternoon at the CDC. The unemployment number had come out that morning. The US had added 273,000 jobs in February, bringing the jobless rate down to a near record low of 3.5 per cent. Trump’s re-election chances were looking 50:50 or better. The previous Saturday, Joe Biden had won the South Carolina primary. But the Democratic contest still seemed to have miles to go. Nothing could be allowed to frighten the Dow Jones.
Any signal that the US was bracing for a pandemic – including taking actual steps to prepare for it – was discouraged.
“Jared [Kushner] had been arguing that testing too many people, or ordering too many ventilators, would spook the markets and so we just shouldn’t do it,” says a Trump confidant who speaks to the president frequently. “That advice worked far more powerfully on him than what the scientists were saying. He thinks they always exaggerate.”
... continued
Quote:
'This is a great success story,’ said Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law and adviser, of the US coronavirus response in late April. Kushner’s advice to avoid alarming the markets is said to have had more influence on the president than the warnings from scientists © Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post/Getty Images
Stephen Moore of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank, who talks regularly to Trump and is a campaign adviser, says the mood was borderline ecstatic in early March. “The economy was just steaming along, the stock market was firing on all cylinders and that jobs report was fantastic,” says Moore. “It was almost too perfect. Nobody expected this virus. It hit us like a meteor or a terrorist attack.”
The CDC has led the response to every disease for decades. Now it has vanished from view
Laurie Garrett, former senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations
People in Trump’s orbit are fond of comparing coronavirus to the 9/11 attacks. George W Bush missed red flags in the build-up to al-Qaeda’s Twin Towers attacks. But he was only once explicitly warned of a possible plot a few weeks before it happened. “All right, you’ve covered your ass,” Bush reportedly told the briefer.
At some point, Congress is likely to establish a body like the 9/11 Commission to investigate Trump’s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic. The inquiry would find that Trump was warned countless times of the epidemic threat in his presidential daily briefings, by federal scientists, the health secretary Alex Azar, Peter Navarro, his trade adviser, Matt Pottinger, his Asia adviser, by business friends and the world at large. Any report would probably conclude that tens of thousands of deaths could have been prevented – even now as Trump pushes to “liberate” states from lockdown.
“It is as though we knew for a fact that 9/11 was going to happen for months, did nothing to prepare for it and then shrugged a few days later and said, ‘Oh well, there’s not much we can do about it,’” says Gregg Gonsalves, a public health scholar at Yale University. “Trump could have prevented mass deaths and he didn’t.”
Demonstrators gather in Olympia, Washington to protest against the state’s stay-at-home orders. Trump adviser Stephen Moore says he told the president ‘this lockdown is causing more deaths and misery than the disease itself’
In fairness, other democracies, notably the UK, Italy and Spain, also wasted time failing to prepare for the approaching onslaught. Whoever was America’s president might have been equally ill-served by Washington infighting.
The CDC has been plagued by mishap and error throughout the crisis. The agency spent weeks trying to develop a jinxed test when it could simply have imported WHO-approved kits from Germany, which has been making them since late January. “The CDC has been missing in action,” says a former senior adviser in the Trump White House. “Because of the CDC’s errors, we did not have a true picture of the spread of the disease.”
Here again, though, Trump’s stamp is clear. It was Trump who chose Robert Redfield to head the CDC in spite of widespread warnings about the former military officer’s controversial record. Redfield led the Pentagon’s response to HIV-Aids in the 1980s. It involved isolating suspected soldiers in so-called HIV Hotels. Many who tested positive were dishonourably discharged. Some committed suicide.
A devout catholic, Redfield saw Aids as the product of an immoral society. For many years, he championed a much-hyped remedy that was discredited in tests. That debacle led to his removal from the job in 1994.
Trump and Robert Redfield at a daily briefing of the coronavirus task force at the White House. Trump chose Redfield to head the CDC despite of widespread warnings about the former military officer’s controversial record on HIV-Aids © Drew Angerer/Getty Images
“Redfield is about the worst person you could think of to be heading the CDC at this time,” says Laurie Garrett, a Pulitzer Prize-winning science journalist who has reported on epidemics. “He lets his prejudices interfere with the science, which you cannot afford during a pandemic.”
One of the CDC’s constraints was to insist on developing its own test rather than import a foreign one. Dr Anthony Fauci – the infectious disease expert and now household name – is widely known to loathe Redfield, and vice versa. That meant the CDC and Fauci’s National Institutes of Health were not on the same page. “The last thing you need is scientists fighting with each other in the middle of an epidemic,” says Dr Kenneth Bernard, who set up a previous White House pandemic unit in 2004, which was scrapped under Barack Obama.
Advising Trump was like ‘bringing fruits to the volcano . . . You’re trying to appease a great force that’s impervious to*reason’
An administration official
The scarcity of kits meant that the scientists lacked a picture of America’s rapidly spreading infections. The CDC was forced to ration tests to “persons under investigation” – people who had come within 6ft of someone who had either visited China or been infected with Covid-19 in the previous 14 days. Most were denied. Few could prove that they had met either criterion. This was at a time when several countries, notably Germany, Taiwan and South Korea, gave access to on-the-spot tests, including at drive-through centres – an option most Americans still lack.
wait!, there's more ...
Quote:
Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Deborah Birx, White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, have been two of Trump’s key advisers and the main public faces of the crisis © Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images
“You’ve been commuting by train or subway into New York every day, you show up sick in the clinic and they refuse to test you because you can’t prove you’ve been within 6ft of someone with Covid-19,” says the former adviser. “You’ve probably been close to half a million people in the previous two weeks.”
Restrictions on testing narrow the options. “Once you get to one per cent prevalence in any community, it is too late for non-pharmaceutical interventions to work,” says Tom Bossert, who created the since-disbanded White House pandemic office before he was ejected in 2018 by John Bolton, Trump’s then national security adviser.
By March 11, just five days after Trump’s CDC visit, the reality was beginning to seep through. In an Oval Office broadcast, Trump banned travel from most of Europe, which expanded the partial ban he put on China in February. Two days later, he declared a national emergency. Even then, however, he insisted America was leading the world. “We’ve done a great job because we acted quickly,” he said. “We acted early.
Over the next 48 hours, however, something snapped in Trump’s mind. Citing a call with one of his sons, Trump said on March 16: “It’s bad. It’s bad… They think August [before the disease peaks]. Could be July. Could be longer than that.”
Eleven days later, Boris Johnson, Britain’s prime minister contracted Covid-19. The disease nearly killed him. That was Johnson’s road-to-Damascus. Many hoped Trump had had a similar conversion. If*so, it did not last long. The next week, he was saying that America should reopen by Easter on April 12. “I was one of the ones advising him to make it ‘Resurrection Sunday,’” says Moore. “I told him then what I think now, that this lockdown is causing more deaths and misery than the disease itself.”
Trump’s mindset became increasingly surreal. He began to tout hydroxychloroquine as a cure for Covid-19. On March 19, at a regular televised briefing, which he conducted daily for five weeks, often rambling for more than two hours, he depicted the antimalarial drug as a potential magic bullet. It could be “one of the biggest game-changers in the history of medicine”, he later tweeted.
Healthcare workers gather outside Brooklyn Hospital Center in New York. The state has been the epicentre of the disease in the US © Brendan McDermid/Reuters
The president’s leap of faith, which was inspired by Fox News anchors, notably Laura Ingraham, and his lawyer Rudy Giuliani, none of whom have a medical background, turned Washington’s bureaucracy upside down. Scientists who demurred were punished. In April, Rick Bright, the federal scientist in charge of developing a vaccine – arguably the most urgent role in government – was removed after blocking efforts to promote hydroxychloroquine.
Most clinical trials have shown the drug has no positive impact on Covid-19 patients and can harm people with heart problems. “I was pressured to let politics and cronyism drive decisions over the opinions of the best scientists we have in government,” Bright said in a statement.
In a whistleblower complaint, he said he was pressured to send millions of dollars worth of contracts to a company controlled by a friend of Jared Kushner. When he refused, he was fired. The US Department of Health and Human Services denied Bright’s allegations.
I was one of the ones advising him to make it ‘Resurrection Sunday’. I told him then what I think now, that this lockdown is causing more deaths and misery than the disease itself
Stephen Moore, campaign adviser
Other scientists have taken note of Bright’s fate. During the Ebola outbreak in 2014, when Obama’s administration sent 3,000 US military personnel to Africa to fight the epidemic, the CDC held a daily briefing about the state of progress. It has not held one since early March. Scientists across Washington are terrified of saying anything that contradicts Trump.
“The way to keep your job is to out-loyal everyone else, which means you have to tolerate quackery,” says Anthony Scaramucci, an estranged former Trump adviser, who was briefly his White House head of communications. “You have to flatter him in public and flatter him in private. Above all, you must never make him feel ignorant.”
An administration official says advising Trump is like “bringing fruits to the volcano” – Trump being the lava source. “You’re trying to appease a great force that’s impervious to reason,” says the official.
When Trump suggested in late April that people could stop Covid-19, or even cure themselves, by injecting disinfectant, such as Lysol or Dettol, his chief scientist, Deborah Birx, did not dare contradict him. The leading bleach companies issued statements urging customers not to inject or ingest disinfectant because it could be fatal. The CDC only issued a cryptic tweet advising Americans to: “Follow the instructions on the product label.”
A woman protests against shelter-in-place orders at a Michigan Conservative Coalition rally in Lansing
“I can’t even get my calls returned,” says Garrett. “The CDC has led the response to every disease for decades. Now it has vanished from view.” A former senior Trump official says: “People turn into wusses around Trump. If you stand up to him, you’ll never get back in. What you see in public is what you get in private. He is exactly the same.”
America’s foreign partners have had an equally sharp reminder of Trump’s way of doing business. Few western leaders are as ideologically aligned with Trump as Scott Morrison, Australia’s prime minister. Early into the epidemic, Morrison created a national cabinet that meets at least once a week. It includes every state premier of the two main parties. Morrison’s unity cabinet projects an air of bipartisan resolve in a country that has lost just under 100 people to coronavirus in three months. Some days, America has lost more people to it every hour.
Trump, by contrast, plays US state governors against each other, much as he does with his staff. Republican states have received considerably more ventilators and personal protective equipment per capita than Democratic states, in spite of having far lower rates of hospitalisation. Trump says America is fighting a war against Covid-19. In practice, he is stoking national disunity. “It’s like saying to the governors that each state has to produce its own tanks and bullets,” says Bernard. “You’re on your own. It’s not my responsibility.”
Trump’s dog-eat-dog instinct has been just as strong abroad as at home. A meeting of G7 foreign ministers in March failed to agree on a statement after Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, insisted they brand it the “Wuhan virus”. America declined to participate in a recent summit hosted by Emmanuel Macron, France’s president, to collaborate on a vaccine.
You don’t turn off the hose in the middle of the fire, even if you dislike the fireman. This virus threatens every country in the world and will exploit any crack in our resolve
Dr Bernhard Schwartländer, chief of staff at the WHO
Most dramatically, Trump has suspended US funding of the WHO, which he says covered up for China’s lying. The WHO confirms that Trump met the then director-general designate, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, in the Oval Office in June 2017, shortly before he took up the role. Trump supported his candidacy.
Other critics say the Geneva-based body was too ready to take Beijing’s word at face value. There is some truth to that claim. “They were too scared of offending China,” says Bernard, who was America’s WHO director for two years. But its bureaucratic timidity did not stop other countries from taking early precautions.
last bit ...
Quote:
WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in March. Trump has suspended US funding of the organisation © Fabrice Coffrini/AFP/Getty Images
Trump alleged the WHO’s negligence had increased the world’s death rate “twenty-fold”. In practice, the body must always abide by member state limits, especially the big ones, notably the US and China. That is the reality for all multilateral bodies. The WHO nevertheless declared an international emergency six weeks before Trump’s US announcement. WHO officials say Trump’s move has badly hindered its operations.
“You don’t turn off the hose in the middle of the fire, even if you dislike the fireman,” says Bernhard Schwartländer, chief of staff at the WHO. “This virus threatens every country in the world and will exploit any crack in our resolve.” The body, in other words, has fallen victim to US-China hostility.
Blaming America’s death rate on China and the WHO could well help Trump’s re-election campaign. Many voters are all too ready to believe the US is a victim of nefarious global forces. Garrett, who is a former senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations, cites Inferno, a lesser-known novel by Dan Brown, author of the best-selling Da Vinci Code, in which the WHO plays a dastardly role.
One of its leading characters is a biologist at the CFR. During a pandemic, she kidnaps the head of the WHO and puts him in the think-tank’s basement. He is rescued by a WHO military team that swoops in on the body’s C-130 jet. In reality, the agency has no police powers at all. “We are not like Interpol,” says Schwartländer. The WHO can no more insist on going into Wuhan to investigate the origins of Covid-19 than it can barge into Atlanta to investigate the CDC’s delay in producing a test.
'Trump’s campaign will be about China, China, China,' says Steve Bannon, his former chief strategist. A demonstrator in California echoes the administration’s anti-China rhetoric © Stanton Sharpe/SOPA Images/LightRocket/Getty Images
Both the US and China have spread outlandish rumours about the other. Some Chinese officials have circulated the groundless conspiracy theory that the US army planted the virus in Wuhan at an athletics event last year. Trump administration officials, including Pompeo, have repeatedly suggested Covid-19 originated from a bat-to-human transmission in Wuhan’s virology lab.
Last month, Australia called for an international inquiry into the disease’s origins. “Australia’s goal was to defuse conspiracy theories in both China and America,” says Michael Fullilove, head of the Lowy Institute, Australia’s largest think-tank.
Days later, Australia’s Daily Telegraph, a tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch, ran an apparent scoop that the “five eyes” – the intelligence agencies of the US, the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand – had concluded the disease came from the Wuhan lab, whether by accident or design. It appears the story had no substance. Fauci and other scientists say the pathogen almost certainly came from a wet market in Wuhan. No “five eyes” dossier existed.
According to a five eye senior intelligence officer and a figure close to Australia’s government, the Daily Telegraph story probably came from the US embassy in Canberra. There was no chance after its publication that Beijing would agree to an international probe. The report damaged Australia’s hopes of defusing US-China tensions. “We used to think of America as the world’s leading power, not as the epicentre of disease,” says Fullilove, who is an ardent pro-American. “We increasingly feel caught between a reckless China and a feckless America that no longer seems to care about its allies.”
So where does the American chapter of the plague go from here? Early into his partial about-turn, Trump said scientists told him that up to 2.5 million Americans could die of the disease. The most recent estimates suggest 135,000 Americans will die by late July. That means two things.
First, Trump will tell voters that he has saved millions of lives. Second, he will continue to push aggressively for US states to lift their lockdowns. His overriding goal is to revive the economy before the general election. Both Trump and Kushner have all but declared mission accomplished on the pandemic. “This is a great success story,” said Kushner in late April. “We have prevailed,” said Trump on Monday.
'We have prevailed,' said Trump at a White House news briefing about the coronavirus earlier this week
Economists say a V-shaped recovery is unlikely. Even then it could be two Vs stuck together – a W, in other words. The*social mingling resulting from any short-term economic reopening would probably come at the price of a second contagious outburst. As long as the second V began only after November, Trump might just be re-elected.
“From Trump’s point of view, there is no choice,” says Charlie Black, a senior Republican consultant and lobbyist. “It is the economy or nothing. He can’t exactly run on his personality.” Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief strategist, had a slightly different emphasis: “Trump’s campaign will be about China, China, China,” he says. “And hopefully the fact that he rebooted the economy.”
In the meantime, Trump will probably continue to dangle the prospect of miracle cures. Every week since the start of the outbreak, he has said a vaccine is just around the corner. His latest estimate is that it will be ready by July. Scientists say it will take a year at best to produce an inoculation. Most say 18 months would be lucky. Even that would break all records. The previous fastest development was four years for mumps in the 1960s.
We used to think of America as the world’s leading power, not as the epicentre of disease. We increasingly feel caught between a reckless China and a feckless America
Michael Fullilove, head of the Lowy institute
For the time being, Trump has been persuaded to cease his daily briefings. The White House internal polling shows that his once double-digit lead over Biden among Americans over 65 has been wiped out. It turns out retirees are no fans of herd immunity.
Friends of the president are trying to figure out how to return life to normal without provoking a new death toll. After an initial rally in March, Trump’s poll numbers have been steadily dropping over the last month. For the next six months, America’s microbial fate will be in the hands of its president’s erratic re-election strategy. There is more than a whiff of rising desperation.
“Trump is caught in a box which keeps getting smaller,” says George Conway, a Republican lawyer who is married to Kellyanne Conway, Trump’s senior counsellor. “In my view he is a sociopath and a malignant narcissist. When a person suffering from these disorders feels the world closing in on them, their tendencies get worse. They lash out and fantasise and lose any ability to think rationally.” Conway is known for taunting Trump on Twitter (to great effect, it should be added: Trump often retaliates).
Yet without exception, everyone I interviewed, including the most ardent Trump loyalists, made a similar point to Conway. Trump is deaf to advice, said one. He is his own worst enemy, said another. He only listens to family, said a third. He is mentally imbalanced, said a fourth. America, in other words, should brace itself for a*turbulent six months ahead – with no assurance of a safe landing.
Edward Luce is the FT’s US national editor
Thanks :faf: that’s quite a tome. I’ll read it shortly.
It's actually staggering that this can go on in America in this day and age. Nice to see Murdoch is still morally reprehensible.
That article is just wow.
I'm not particularly familiar with the inner workings of domestic politics in the US, however one phrase I always remember hearing was 'checks and balances'. Something in the system must be seriously broken to allow one man and 2 unelected advisors to create such havoc. America needs protecting from itself.
Fantastic, thank you. I’ve read some of that before but the stuff from CDC in Atlanta I haven’t seen. It’s a barely credible dystopian storyline, I can’t believe we’re living through these times.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
The FT must be the latest bastion of FAKE NEWS, file alongside CNN, WAPO and the NYT. Nothing to see here...Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
In all seriousness the stuff written in that article boggles the mind. Trump was always going to be a dangerous inhabitant of the White House, America is finding out just how frightening an ignorant, malignant, petty minded narcissist can be as president. He’s an abomination of a human being.
Never mind though, he’s draining the swamp, as certain imbeciles like to state. Some folk should stop taking drugs and stay off the internet, conspiracy theorist weirdos that they are.
So many people deserting him, Dr Bright has resigned. Anyone who challenges him resigns or is sacked or is tweeted against He's completely out of control
Yet it’s being predicted he will be re-elected as long as he kick starts the economy and restores people’s freedomsQuote:
Originally Posted by wpj
Bringing in the military to administer a rushed through flawed vaccine will surely be his undoing though
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Been talking to my American friends who predict he is absolutely getting 4 more years. The prospect is unbelievably scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronniekirk
Being predicted by doom-mongers. The polls show Biden will win all the Clinton states and won't have the problems she did in the rust belt: he's well ahead in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronniekirk
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...state-polling/
I don't think JB is much of a candidate but Trump needs a big turnaround.
No probs.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
:agree: about the surreal nature of all this. Sometimes I wake up and have to process my way through it all being real all over again.
Just to clear up what The President of the United States actually said...
https://twitter.com/Kiltworm/status/1260076975185526784
The Trump article is absolutely incredible but not really. Scary thing is he will probably get reelected. What a moron.
One thing I took from the article posted earlier is that it sounds like even Trump supporters and other Republicans are alarmed with his behaviour at the moment. I wonder if many would be content to swallow a Biden presidency to return the US to some stability, then find a credible Republican candidate who could take him on in 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Is there any prospect of Cuomo getting the Democrat nomination? Not sure whether or not he'd want it, but I think I read that a candidate can be elected from the floor even if they haven't been in the primaries - don't know if that is realistic or just hypothetical.
It's possible but extremely unlikely. They've settled around Biden and there isn't major dissent. Barring a health scare he'll be the nominee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs Class
I had an interesting conversation with my 16 year old yesterday about processing what’s going on the world. She thinks a lot about future reflections; in practice, imagining talking to friends ten years in the future about the madness of Trump and Coronavirus and reflecting on the incredulousness of it all. I’m the opposite; I imagine a ‘go back in time’ scenario, where I have prior knowledge in 2019 of the madness that’s unfolding. I suppose it’s a reflection of how different folk have different mental mechanisms :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
As much as we can lambast Trump etc IMO the person needed to explain themselves fully and openly and has again IMO caused this country far far more issues than Trump is Xi Jinping.
"German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Chinese leader Xi Jinping pressured Tedros Adhanom, director of the World Health Organization in January 2020 to hold off on issuing a global warning about the coronavirus outbreak. The report published over the weekend said Xi urged the WHO chief to “delay a global warning” about the pandemic and hold back information on human-to-human transmission of the virus, but WHO denied German allegations"
What could this regime have tries to suppress within own state we will not know?
True or not there is IMO lots and lots of smoke and mirrors of all this and for me we are in a far worse situation than we should be first and formost because of the actions or non actions early doors.
Wasnt it declared a global emergency in January?Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
Countres dont have an excuse for being woefully unprepared or worse, not taking it seriously
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That’s probably true, although Xi didn’t suggest his population start injecting themselves with bleach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
Whataboutery at its finest there! Remind me what this thread was about again? :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
ask chinaQuote:
Originally Posted by mcs****y
It's interesting. I think when Trump ceases to be President, the subsequent years will bring out revelations which are even worse than his publicised deranged behaviour. When that happens, a lot of Republicans will suffer by association. It might be a while before they are able to effectively rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by SideBurns
Its not whataboutary is Trumps actions with Virus not whataboutary as are everyone elses as Virus came first. When did saying what about become this whataboutary pish anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by McS****y
That's what worries me. Its probably way worse behind the scenes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
No he didnt though but perhaps if they had done their job correctly in first plce then no bleach talk every gets said etc etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
The easy answer to all this type of question is that Germany had enough time to prepare, so why didn’t other developed nations like the U.K. or USA? Even poorer ones like Portugal did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
And the obvious answer to my question is poor leadership in the nations that have failed so far.
Der Spiegel claims this conversation occurred on January 21st but China had already confirmed the existence of human to human transmission themselves prior to this date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
Is anyone claiming that UK USA have done a good job? Im not I am saying Chinas handling of the incident in the first place has caused us far more trouble than Trump ever will here. So counties that were prepared for a terror attack well done but if our security fail then blame them firstly and not the actual source?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tubs
We can all agree or not I find the obsession with how bad Trump is totally bizarre when in many many countries just because we have no real links with them there are some horrendous things been going on.
So indeed probably not the ideal thread for me to post on.
Then don't, Trump is an absolute racist pr!ck, a liability with no grasp of any sensible ideas or factsQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
Why you pointing out to me what the last 200 pages show as if that is some sort of revelation your opinion? I do not disagree with most folks thoughts but I can still find it strange. I wont so cheers. Im not stuck in thee house because Trumps a prick.Quote:
Originally Posted by wpj
It's less an obsession than a recognition that what happens in the US usually has an effect (politically, culturally, financially) on the rest of the World, particularly in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
"When America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold"
Oh chill out, you always come across as angry about stuff. Again, if I have offended you I apologise but the chill out comment standsQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
Well I don't know how much all your lives have changed here in UK since he took over mine hasn't and I have been to USA twice on holiday since he took over. Has that stopped others visiting?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
My post didn't mention Trump. It spoke about the reality of the effect of the US on the World.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
He's the leader of that country. Ergo it's of interest.
"Then don't, Trump is an absolute racist pr!ck, a liability with no grasp of any sensible ideas or facts"Quote:
Originally Posted by wpj
That comes across as? I'm perfectly chilled thanks.
I think it would be only reasonable and valid for a thread about Donald Trump to have someone on here defending the guy. We shouldn't necessarily downplay the fact that he managed to get enough people in a nation of 328 million to vote him in as president, so somebody somewhere must like what he is doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
As far as I can see your defence of him is "aye, but what about China" which is about the best he can normally come up with himself. It's not really much of a defence for the reckless, distasteful and downright dangerous words he often chooses to use to go about his business but clearly quite a lot of people are content with it.
Indeed but I still ask what has occurred to us due to his leadership then as individuals?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Who is defending him? I said there are others out there as well. When did I say he is doing OK or I support him? Once again you say something not necessarily anti Trump and your in support of him. Utter nonsense and totally irrational.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
If they knew well in advance of the impending terror attack and know exactly the form it would take - yes, I'd say our security forces failed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
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They did what about the terrorists though forget about them? As we didn't do good enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
4 suggestions:-Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
The worsening of the relationship with China and Russia has, IMO, made the world less safe. That affects us all.
The facilitation of right-wing views has validated the rise of similar behaviour in this country. For people in marginalised communities, that is very worrying.
His encouragement of Brexit has helped to contribute to what is an uncertain economic future.
His refusal to accept the widely-held view of climate change is very worrying for those of us who care about the future of our families.
There are plenty of countries at conflict as well that could do same.
Point 2 source.
We voted Brexit all others are irrelevant.
I accept point 4.
Anyone on here still visit the states out of interest? Or is this defending him.
The terrorists in this case is a virus we can't even seeQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
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Some of these are very nasty questions
1. none with the economic and military clout of the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
2. simple example would be the proposed protests taking place in the UK this weekend, organised by the Britain First people. They are, IMO, following the example of similar protests in the US. Trump's rhetoric enables and emboldens these people.
Lame tbh, anyway very nasty points.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
There is no point in asking me stuff I suggest you ask China and with that I storm off this thread.
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
:faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips
I always had Donald Trump down as a hun but maybe he's one of us?