Ĥibs First night

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Originally Posted by Brooster

Why didn't you pay £50 a few years back? You had the same opportunity as everyone else.

Also...I'm willing to bet a pound to a penny if a loyalty scheme was introduced it would be the same people in the top bracket who are in HibsFirst.

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Me my nephew and both sons who are all in their 30's go to just about every away game as a group we have being doing this for at least 20 of these years, me a lot longer due to my age obviously. None of us out of principle paid the £50.00, but I will say that at least two of us if not all four would have got a ticket for the recent Aberdeen game if it had been down to loyalty points. I wonder though why we manged to get tickets no problem for the up coming game against celtic where the allocation was roughly the same for the two games.

No system will please everyone and it's the same arguments every time.

Hibs First is fine but it has become pretty much a closed shop because of the cap on numbers. Once someone is in why would they leave? It's a guarantee of tickets for the biggest games with no obligation to buy for any other games. I think it will be a minority who use it as such, most will go to most away games and that absolutely should be recognised. However if someone had say a change in work pattern that would limit their attendance at away games would they give up their membership? I'm sceptical because ultimately it works out at about £1.30 a week over the course of the season to guarantee a ticket for Tynescastle, Ibrox, away cup games and European away trips. Well done to those who signed up at first but it does create an issue for those who couldn't commit to it 3 years ago but would like to now. Increasing the cap by another 250 or 500 creates issues of it's own.

The beauty of the loyalty schemes I have been in (Newcastle) is that points drop off after 2 years. Not all your points obviously but after 2 years, points that are 2 years and 1 day old drop off and so on. That creates a snapshot in time so the people attending most away game at any given period are at the top of the tree. It stops people who attend every away game now still being at the top in 5 years as a legacy even if their attendance drops off, whilst continuing to reward them if it doesn't. The big issue with loyalty points is that so many clubs now sell direct to away fans. Ayr this season is an example; Hibs communicated there was a priority period for Hibs First members but there wasn't. Ayr controlled the ticket sales and they didn't care about Hibs scheme, anyone who wanted a ticket on the first day of sales could have bought one and I know plenty who did just that. It would either entail Hibs taking control of all ticket sales which is costly or asking for access to another clubs data to update points and so on. Both a lot of work and additional costs for a scheme that would only really be needed a handful of times a season.

The away season ticket penalised a lot of loyal fans by obligating them to buy tickets for games whether they could attend or not. If someone is able to attend say 16 of 18 away games it's a bit unfair to charge them for the 2 games they miss imo. That ultimately works out more expensive than the Hibs First scheme in which an upfront payment of £50 removes the obligation (and that money ends up in Hibs coffers rather than Motherwell, Dundee etc).

People will pick holes in every scheme and generally speaking the 'best option' usually equates to 'the option that most suits my circumstances'. I'm at a point now where I have gone from attending all away games up until about 6 years ago to attending only a couple for a few years to now attending 8-10 again with that likely to increase again next season so I'd be happy to get either get into Hibs First if the opportunity ever arises or have a loyalty scheme reintroduced as both would see me right but that probably clouds my opinion because all I am really interested in is me.

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Originally Posted by green with envy

Me my nephew and both sons who are all in their 30's go to just about every away game as a group we have being doing this for at least 20 of these years, me a lot longer due to my age obviously. None of us out of principle paid the £50.00, but I will say that at least two of us if not all four would have got a ticket for the recent Aberdeen game if it had been down to loyalty points. I wonder though why we manged to get tickets no problem for the up coming game against celtic where the allocation was roughly the same for the two games.

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Loyalty points are the way to go. It works fine for Scotland games.

Kind of an endless debate on this one every time it comes up, usually reaching a peak around Tynie (maybe some Euro trips next season?) as people lose out. Do think the club need to answer longer-term their plans on Hibs First, I don't think it's good enough to say 'you missed out 4 years ago, so tough'. Attending habits change, as Pretty Boy mentioned and no club should run closed shop loyalty schemes.

Anyone with issues should really be DM'ing or emailing Kieran Power to give him an idea of sentiment. Only real chance it gets looked at. The debate on here is bordering on a flag debate thread now. Entrenched, repetitive & it doesn't help change a thing.

The new panel can hopefully raise it and propose a solution. The club are trying to do it with little admin required - could just hearts for a copy and paste of the code for their system.

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Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

The new panel can hopefully raise it and propose a solution. The club are trying to do it with little admin required - could just hearts for a copy and paste of the code for their system.

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The crux of it is the club are trying to monetise a part of the system they would usually see no income for. We have a great away travelling support that doesn't actually come into the clubs pockets, but charging 750 people £50 does. It's an extra £35k a year for not a lot of work.

Until someone proposes an idea that keeps everyone happy AND brings the club money I doubt it'll change.

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Originally Posted by Centre Hawf

The crux of it is the club are trying to monetise a part of the system they would usually see no income for. We have a great away travelling support that doesn't actually come into the clubs pockets, but charging 750 people £50 does. It's an extra £35k a year for not a lot of work.

Until someone proposes an idea that keeps everyone happy AND brings the club money I doubt it'll change.

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It’s only 500 of us so not quite as much but I agree. I am a member but on the face of it I find monetising the away support quite galling.

We already, like many others, spend a fortune following the club only for it to be monetised further.

It’s not a great look but it’s also a scheme which it makes it easier for us to buy tickets and gives us a couple of days to buy so from that POV and the admin costs then £50 is worth it.

I never went last night down to the fact that even the Hibs First night is devalued. A two course meal down to a pie and a pint (I don’t drink) so glad most enjoyed themselves and I am grateful for the service but please bring back loyalty points.

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Originally Posted by andrew70

It’s only 500 of us so not quite as much but I agree. I am a member but on the face of it I find monetising the away support quite galling.

We already, like many others, spend a fortune following the club only for it to be monetised further.

It’s not a great look but it’s also a scheme which it makes it easier for us to buy tickets and gives us a couple of days to buy so from that POV and the admin costs then £50 is worth it.

I never went last night down to the fact that even the Hibs First night is devalued. A two course meal down to a pie and a pint (I don’t drink) so glad most enjoyed themselves and I am grateful for the service but please bring back loyalty points.

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Wait til you find out there’s no HQ magazine going forward either… [emoji23]


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Originally Posted by CallumLaidlaw

Wait til you find out there’s no HQ magazine going forward either… [emoji23]


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Aye I heard that 😂

Hopefully reintroducing the programme although I write for the independent one so not sure how that would work.

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Originally Posted by CallumLaidlaw

Wait til you find out there’s no HQ magazine going forward either… [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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That's a shame, I quite liked the HQ magazine (prefer a programme but I know the general need for them has diminished.) Always felt if the club paired it with your season ticket and sent them out like a traditional magazine subscription it would have been a decent addition.

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Originally Posted by Speedy

Loyalty points are the way to go. It works fine for Scotland games.

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Well it does until they randomly change your membership number without telling you so you lose points, then they deny it ever happened even though you provide proof - sorry just my historical gripe with the SFA that saw me narrowly miss out on qualifying for Euro tickets.

In theory it works great and I'd like to see Hibs get back to something similar.

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Originally Posted by Centre Hawf

The crux of it is the club are trying to monetise a part of the system they would usually see no income for. We have a great away travelling support that doesn't actually come into the clubs pockets, but charging 750 people £50 does. It's an extra £35k a year for not a lot of work.

Until someone proposes an idea that keeps everyone happy AND brings the club money I doubt it'll change.

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If they are trying to monetise any system, introducing a proper membership scheme, that anyone (season ticket holders) can join and then having a loyalty system under this umbrella. Current Hibs First members can be given the top priority initially and then others can build up points, this would eventually weed out anyone how just buys Hibs first for tiny tickets.
This membership could offer additional benefits, money off stadium tours, money off in the shop, potentially free home ticket to bring a friend, etc. none of this would really need much of a financial outlay.

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Originally Posted by Viva_Palmeiras

you should have heard what’s she said about you :)

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She wished she’d met DG nine years ago

[QUOTE=gorgie greens;7954212]

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Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs

Folk would pay £60 for a derby ticket and that’s what some of the hibs first are effectively doing as they don’t take up the tickets for any other game.

There’s no 3 strikes and you’re out rule anymore - just sign up and pick and choose. Everyone should get on the waiting list to show the club what the interest levels are and it might make them think differently.[/QUOTE

The club has no control over how much the allocation of any away game will be so 500 membership is about right once the players and staff get their allocation so little point in everyone applying.

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Take Aberdeen away recently.

Hospitality memebers get offered tickets before they go on sale as well.

Hospitality / F-First / Players / Staff tickets - be lucky if there was 100 tickets went up for sale to ST holders.

Maybe the Hibs first should introduce that you must be a ST holder (or are they already)and pay the 50 quid on top, or am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass

Maybe the Hibs first should introduce that you must be a ST holder (or are they already)and pay the 50 quid on top, or am I missing something?

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You need to be a season ticket holder and the £50 is paid upfront

SDG spoke so well and had time for everyone. We are so lucky to have him as our leader and I can see how rhe team are so inspired by him.

Was there an email that came out about tonight's event?
I couldn't find anything saying it was tonight.
Most likely bloody Hotmail again.

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Originally Posted by scottish_sleepy

Was there an email that came out about tonight's event?
I couldn't find anything saying it was tonight.
Most likely bloody Hotmail again.

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The initial invite was sent on 11th April

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Originally Posted by Brooster

Why didn't you pay £50 a few years back? You had the same opportunity as everyone else.

Also...I'm willing to bet a pound to a penny if a loyalty scheme was introduced it would be the same people in the top bracket who are in HibsFirst.

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This gets rolled out every time this discussion comes up. The reality is it was such a short period of time it was available that people didn't get the chance. I was on holiday and missed the opportunity, that's my bad luck but it's not true to say that everyone that would have wanted to join had the opportunity, there was a finite number of memberships and they went fast. Your second point isn't true either, I was in the top bracket in the old loyalty scheme and I'm not in Hibs First, I also go to Hibs away matches, have Behind the Goals membership and a season ticket holder, that rightly, doesn't make me anything other than a supporter. The current system isn't right and needs to be changed to make it fairer to everyone not just a group of 500 supporters.

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Originally Posted by Cammy

This gets rolled out every time this discussion comes up. The reality is it was such a short period of time it was available that people didn't get the chance. I was on holiday and missed the opportunity, that's my bad luck but it's not true to say that everyone that would have wanted to join had the opportunity, there was a finite number of memberships and they went fast. Your second point isn't true either, I was in the top bracket in the old loyalty scheme and I'm not in Hibs First, I also go to Hibs away matches, have Behind the Goals membership and a season ticket holder, that rightly, doesn't make me anything other than a supporter. The current system isn't right and needs to be changed to make it fairer to everyone not just a group of 500 supporters.

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You still had the same chance as everyone else to join but I do agree with some of your points. There's no doubt you and many others probably attend more away games than a decent percentage of HF members.

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Originally Posted by SteveHFC

Meeting SDG tonight was better than meeting my girlfriend 9 years ago.

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There comes a moment in your life when you realise what REAL love is.

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Originally Posted by Cammy

This gets rolled out every time this discussion comes up. The reality is it was such a short period of time it was available that people didn't get the chance. I was on holiday and missed the opportunity, that's my bad luck but it's not true to say that everyone that would have wanted to join had the opportunity, there was a finite number of memberships and they went fast. Your second point isn't true either, I was in the top bracket in the old loyalty scheme and I'm not in Hibs First, I also go to Hibs away matches, have Behind the Goals membership and a season ticket holder, that rightly, doesn't make me anything other than a supporter. The current system isn't right and needs to be changed to make it fairer to everyone not just a group of 500 supporters.

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It’s mental - things change, circumstances, cash flow etc. but if you didn’t elect to do this a few years ago you’re stuck with it.

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Originally Posted by Brooster

You still had the same chance as everyone else to join but I do agree with some of your points. There's no doubt you and many others probably attend more away games than a decent percentage of HF members.

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That's the part that annoys me.

I made a point in not purchasing Hibs First because I'm against monetising loyalty schemes.

We pay enough money to follow Hibs home and away without being subject to yet more expense.

There are people in Hibs First who attend nowhere near the amount of away games some of us do, yet come Europe etc, we may be without tickets, whilst everyone in Hibs First is covered.

What happened to the scheme being monitored as the club assured us?

The first item on the agenda for the newly formed supporter's panel should be the abandonment of Hibs First, and a fairer and fully accessible system going forward.

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Originally Posted by Cammy

This gets rolled out every time this discussion comes up. The reality is it was such a short period of time it was available that people didn't get the chance. I was on holiday and missed the opportunity, that's my bad luck but it's not true to say that everyone that would have wanted to join had the opportunity, there was a finite number of memberships and they went fast. Your second point isn't true either, I was in the top bracket in the old loyalty scheme and I'm not in Hibs First, I also go to Hibs away matches, have Behind the Goals membership and a season ticket holder, that rightly, doesn't make me anything other than a supporter. The current system isn't right and needs to be changed to make it fairer to everyone not just a group of 500 supporters.

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I’m Hibs First but it should be a loyalty scheme to cater for changing circumstances. The people on Hibs First, who go every week, wouldn’t suffer. They’d still be in the top bracket for away tickets. It would weed out folk who don’t actually go but benefit for the big games and would would give others the opportunity to increase their eligibility over time. The concept is so simple, it should never have been mucked about with all those years ago.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

I’m Hibs First but it should be a loyalty scheme to cater for changing circumstances. The people on Hibs First, who go every week, wouldn’t suffer. They’d still be in the top bracket for away tickets. It would weed out folk who don’t actually go but benefit for the big games and would would give others the opportunity to increase their eligibility over time. The concept is so simple, it should never have been mucked about with all those years ago.

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Totally agree. I wouldn’t be at the top but it’s fairer than this shambles. Needs to be made clear it’s not a league table of best fan - I think that caused a few problems last time.

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Originally Posted by Chorley Hibee

That's the part that annoys me.

I made a point in not purchasing Hibs First because I'm against monetising loyalty schemes.

We pay enough money to follow Hibs home and away without being subject to yet more expense.

There are people in Hibs First who attend nowhere near the amount of away games some of us do, yet come Europe etc, we may be without tickets, whilst everyone in Hibs First is covered.

What happened to the scheme being monitored as the club assured us?

The first item on the agenda for the newly formed supporter's panel should be the abandonment of Hibs First, and a fairer and fully accessible system going forward.

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I’m sure one of the issues of the loyalty scheme was who was managing it and sorting it / admin issues etc.

Any scheme should have a reset and allow new members.

My biggest issue with loyalty points with the inconsistency of how points were allocated - didn’t include some away games or even games to Hampden. I would say the loyalty scheme made people I know attend more games though as they wanted to get more points.

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Originally Posted by GreenCastle

I’m sure one of the issues of the loyalty scheme was who was managing it and sorting it / admin issues etc.

Any scheme should have a reset and allow new members.

My biggest issue with loyalty points with the inconsistency of how points were allocated - didn’t include some away games or even games to Hampden. I would say the loyalty scheme made people I know attend more games though as they wanted to get more points.

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It's not uncommon in many loyalty schemes for no points to be awarded for games in which demand massively outstrips supply as it's seen as a 'double reward'. You both get a ticket and points to make sure you get a ticket for the next game as well. So no points for a cup final at Hampden where we could sell our allocation twice over but points for attending v Dundee 2 days before Christmas when plenty might choose not to. It still ultimately rewards those who travel most often.

I've also said before that I'm not sure how a loyalty scheme would be administered now with so many clubs selling away tickets direct, I genuinely have no idea how the handful of other clubs in Scotland that have/need loyalty schemes do it. I used Ayr earlier this season as an example of the whole system falling down but I've also definitely bought tickets from St Johnstone, Motherwell and Kilmarnock direct this season, there may well have been others too. If Hibs don't sell the tickets then they don't automatically know who has bought them which in turn makes allocating points difficult. There are really 2 options, no points for those games or ask fans to send proof of purchase. The first option potentially leads to 25-30% or maybe even more of league and cup games gaining no one any points while the latter adds a whole other level of administration and cost that the club can probably do without. I'm not sure if it would be possible to say we will deal with all ticket sales again but that also incurs additional costs and time. I'm sure there must be a reason so many clubs have switched to the current way of doing things.

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Originally Posted by GreenCastle

I’m sure one of the issues of the loyalty scheme was who was managing it and sorting it / admin issues etc.

Any scheme should have a reset and allow new members.

My biggest issue with loyalty points with the inconsistency of how points were allocated - didn’t include some away games or even games to Hampden. I would say the loyalty scheme made people I know attend more games though as they wanted to get more points.

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There actually could be a solution where rather than not earning loyalty points for the games that really need them (and they are few and far between) that you actually spend loyalty points on those tickets.

Maybe a way to stop the biggest games becoming a completely closed shop.

I think the issue last time was, as Danderhall said, that folk saw it as a league table but you also had folk harvesting points so they had enough to guarantee a ticket for the big games without necessarily attending the other away games themselves.

Loyalty points would suit me, when we had them before I was always in the first trench of tickets, and I go to more away games now than I managed back then now the kids are older. I don't think we should end up in a position where we have Hibs fans who are forever locked out of the best games to attend.

I've changed my mind and all for loyalty points now IF they did it right. No points for hearts and a drop off of points every 3 or 5 years so they don't become closed shops either.