Electric Vehicles - A rant.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

People talk about range anxiety. Few actually experience it once they've had the car for a few weeks.

I've worried about running out of petrol/diesel many times purely because I took it for granted that there would be a filling station when I needed it so I didn't plan.

Planning to charge is actually a doddle despite what non EV users think.

I understand the reluctance with some people though. After all, there are folk who are scared to try foods because they "don't like the idea of it"! :greengrin

It's illogical, but fear is persuasive.

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I've just handed back my EV (was a work car, got made redundant) and I miss it. Got a petrol car just now, and had forgotten how much I hated the petrol station trips.

I'll be going back to an EV at the first opportunity. I do a fair bit of driving, and never had the range anxiety - charger at home helped, and I never had a trip where I couldn't charge my car, including longer drives to Liverpool and Manchester, the west coast of Scotland and Aberdeen for the football (could have charged the car while I was at the game, but went for a fast charger after the game to let the traffic die down before I left).

It was by far the best driving experience I've had, and as I said, at the first chance I get, I'll be getting another.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

People talk about range anxiety. Few actually experience it once they've had the car for a few weeks.

I've worried about running out of petrol/diesel many times purely because I took it for granted that there would be a filling station when I needed it so I didn't plan.

Planning to charge is actually a doddle despite what non EV users think.

I understand the reluctance with some people though. After all, there are folk who are scared to try foods because they "don't like the idea of it"! :greengrin

It's illogical, but fear is persuasive.

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I have driven the length and breadth of the U.K. over 30 odd years and never once worried about running out of petrol or diesel.

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Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee

I have driven the length and breadth of the U.K. over 30 odd years and never once worried about running out of petrol or diesel.

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You've never lived.
I sometimes play "chicken" with myself and run my works van down to single figures on the "miles left in the tank" display.
Looks like my vehicle is getting swapped out for an electric van though so I'll maybe have to grow up. Not so easy to get a depleted EV battery going again as it is to walk to a garage with a fuel can 🤔

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

You've never lived.
I sometimes play "chicken" with myself and run my works van down to single figures on the "miles left in the tank" display.
Looks like my vehicle is getting swapped out for an electric van though so I'll maybe have to grow up. Not so easy to get a depleted EV battery going again as it is to walk to a garage with a fuel can 🤔

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Nah not for me mate, driving theses days is stressful enough without having to worry about running out of charge.

It may be an extreme example but I used to drive from Edinburgh to just beyond Exeter 2, 3, 4 times a year to my sisters house, 450 miles. Driving reasonably I could do each way on one tank of fuel. I drove through the night while my wife and youngish kids were sleeping. Stopping 2, possibly 3 times to charge the batteries would fill me with the fear 😆 and add a fair amount of time to the journey.

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Originally Posted by Jack

It may be an extreme example but I used to drive from Edinburgh to just beyond Exeter 2, 3, 4 times a year to my sisters house, 450 miles. Driving reasonably I could do each way on one tank of fuel. I drove through the night while my wife and youngish kids were sleeping. Stopping 2, possibly 3 times to charge the batteries would fill me with the fear 😆 and add a fair amount of time to the journey.

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I get what you're saying, but depending on the car, you might only need to stop once, and if you planned for a fast charger, not for that long. I assume you stopped a couple of times on those journeys?

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I get what you're saying, but depending on the car, you might only need to stop once, and if you planned for a fast charger, not for that long. I assume you stopped a couple of times on those journeys?

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Not unless I had to! I doubt even driving at night what I did then would be possible now - too many cameras!!

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Originally Posted by Jack

Not unless I had to! I doubt even driving at night what I did then would be possible now - too many cameras!!

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I hear you!

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

People talk about range anxiety. Few actually experience it once they've had the car for a few weeks.

I've worried about running out of petrol/diesel many times purely because I took it for granted that there would be a filling station when I needed it so I didn't plan.

Planning to charge is actually a doddle despite what non EV users think.

I understand the reluctance with some people though. After all, there are folk who are scared to try foods because they "don't like the idea of it"! :greengrin

It's illogical, but fear is persuasive.

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I agree with that. Its just a matter of changing the way you think about things and planning things in advance. Going electric has been a net stress reducer, for me anyway.

I did an 85 mile journey to Glasgow, motorway most of the way, my range reduced by 77 miles. What is this range anxiety thing??

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I did an 85 mile journey to Glasgow, motorway most of the way, my range reduced by 77 miles. What is this range anxiety thing??

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I’m an advocate for EVs as I think my posts on this thread and the one on the PM board show, but comments like this annoy me. People shouldn’t worry about range because on certain occasions the car underestimates the range?

It’s a good thing to counter overly negative takes, but pretending it’s all perfect and there are no downsides to EVs doesn’t help anyone.

The ICE engine is obviously better just now and they are easier (filled) at the moment than electric. Unfortunately they are helping kill the planet so really must go.

Range anxiety it definitely overplayed . It's also easy though to look down if your lucky enough to have a house with a driveway and afford the huge cost in getting an EV, some people can't begin to think about spending 20k in this financial climate.

Things will get better though. Batteries will get better and charging points more regularl. It's brilliant that many are switching the more the merrier but it'll take time and it's up to the government to help speed it up but that costs

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The ICE engine is obviously better just now and they are easier (filled) at the moment than electric. Unfortunately they are helping kill the planet so really must go.

Range anxiety it definitely overplayed . It's also easy though to look down if your lucky enough to have a house with a driveway and afford the huge cost in getting an EV, some people can't begin to think about spending 20k in this financial climate.

Things will get better though. Batteries will get better and charging points more regularl. It's brilliant that many are switching the more the merrier but it'll take time and it's up to the government to help speed it up but that costs

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The charging ports aren't getting better though are they. For it to work pretty much every parking space needs a charger (working) and they are miles off it.

That's on top of having a home one.

I like the idea of them but let's not think the current system is anywhere near good enough. I always look at the services in England and they never have enough charging ports or they are out of order.

People stood about waiting for the ones that are working.

I don't know how people can be arsed with it in its current format.

Taken from twitter


Electric Vehicle range seems to be on everybody's mind, but almost no one talks about CONSUMPTION. A car with 300 mile range and 150 kWh battery costs double as much to operate than a car with 300 miles range and a 75 kWh battery. How much energy your EV slurps up per mile matters.

🤔Think of it like this: You wouldn't buy a gas-guzzler just because it has a massive fuel tank, right? The same logic applies to EVs. A car with a 300-mile range might sound dreamy, but if it guzzles down a whopping 150 kWh battery to achieve that, you'll be shelling out double the cash compared to a fuel-sipping EV with the same range but a more modest 75 kWh battery.

🔋Battery size isn't everything. Lugging around a massive battery is like carrying a backpack full of bricks – it weighs you down and burns more energy just to move around. That translates to higher consumption and a heavier dent in your wallet.

⚡️So, what should you be looking for instead of just range? Focus on the kWh/mile. This little number is the true efficiency metric. The lower it is, the less energy your EV needs to travel a mile, and the happier your wallet (and the planet!) will be.

Here are some ways to deal with consumption:

🧸 Go for the Goldilocks battery: Choose a battery size that's just right for your typical travel needs. No need for a marathon runner if you're a daily sprinter.
⚡️ Charge smart: Plug in during off-peak hours to snag lower electricity rates. Charge when you're asleep if you can, and let your EV quietly juice up while you dream.
🧘🏻*♀️Drive chill: Smooth acceleration and gentle braking are your friends. Not only will you feel like a zen master behind the wheel, but you'll also maximize your range and minimize consumption.

So, the next time you're discussing EVs, remember – range is a headline, but consumption is the story.

Go electric ✌️

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Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish

I’m an advocate for EVs as I think my posts on this thread and the one on the PM board show, but comments like this annoy me. People shouldn’t worry about range because on certain occasions the car underestimates the range?

It’s a good thing to counter overly negative takes, but pretending it’s all perfect and there are no downsides to EVs doesn’t help anyone.

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Originally Posted by HH81

The charging ports aren't getting better though are they. For it to work pretty much every parking space needs a charger (working) and they are miles off it.

That's on top of having a home one.

I like the idea of them but let's not think the current system is anywhere near good enough. I always look at the services in England and they never have enough charging ports or they are out of order.

People stood about waiting for the ones that are working.

I don't know how people can be arsed with it in its current format.

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:agree: :agree:

Smug EVangelists (see what I did there) do nothing to persuade others that driving a milk float (just kidding) around is a particularly good idea as things stand.

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Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish

I’m an advocate for EVs as I think my posts on this thread and the one on the PM board show, but comments like this annoy me. People shouldn’t worry about range because on certain occasions the car underestimates the range?

It’s a good thing to counter overly negative takes, but pretending it’s all perfect and there are no downsides to EVs doesn’t help anyone.

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Nice to hear a realistic bit of chat.

I'd be driving around in an EV now if it made financial sense to me, but:

1. I only buy a car about every 10 years or so - for me, that's more eco-friendly than changing cars every 2 or 3 years whether it's ICE or electric. Last car I bought was 5 years ago, and I was priced out of even looking at electric/hybrid at that point
2. I don't tend to buy new
3. I don't generally drive many miles, apart from if I do a one-off trip to a holiday destination or something

So it feels to me that given the low mileage and high purchase price, it wouldn't make economical sense, even if I was looking to buy another car, to go electric. And whilst I care about the environment, I don't care enough to be thousands of pounds out of pocket.

I'll definitely look at the electric options next time I look at switching cars, but right now I can't see where the value lies. (Other than being able to lord it over others as I will have assumed the lofty moral high ground :wink:)

Oh and on the analogy of people on horses suggesting cars aren't the way forward: the point I was making about it being a crap analogy is that fundamentally electric cars don't do anything better than ICE cars, do they? They don't go faster, they can't travel further. Speed and distance covered are pretty much the two main advantages of a car over a horse, no?

Happy to be corrected on any points above. Hopefully without any condescending comments :greengrin

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

1. I only buy a car about every 10 years or so - for me, that's more eco-friendly than changing cars every 2 or 3 years whether it's ICE or electric.

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Agree.

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

2. I don't tend to buy new

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With the caveat that I've never looked closely at used EVs: I think the used market is a bit tricky to navigate at the moment for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as a reasonably new technology EVs are improving quite quickly, so a used EV a few years old may be disproportionately lacking in features in a way that a used ICE car wouldn't – most importantly range and charging speed. Secondly, you'd need to try to determine how much/how gently the battery has been used, as this may mean a lower capacity.

I'd imagine that for a family looking for a second car that's just a runaround there are probably good bargains to be had, but if you're looking for something that would be your only car then it's probably more difficult.

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

3. I don't generally drive many miles, apart from if I do a one-off trip to a holiday destination or something

So it feels to me that given the low mileage and high purchase price, it wouldn't make economical sense, even if I was looking to buy another car, to go electric. And whilst I care about the environment, I don't care enough to be thousands of pounds out of pocket.

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Maybe, it's complicated. Over time the cheaper running costs will balance out the increased purchase price,* but as you say in cases of low mileage that might take a long time. It's also pretty difficult to project when that balancing out would happen, even if you know the up front cost and your average mileage, because multiple factors may change over time:

- Overall cost of electricity (currently gradually falling, but if you'd projected your total cost of ownership based on 2020 electricity prices then you'd be way off right now)
- Continued availability of cheap EV electricity tariffs (my "fuel" costs work out about two pence per mile when I charge at home, but there's no guarantee that those EV tariffs will be around forever)
- Incentives like zero road tax (it's a decent saving right now but obviously can't last forever as the number of EVs increases)

Therefore I'm going to CWG this one and sit on the fence – even if I knew the cost of the cars you were considering and your average mileage, I wouldn't be confident in saying whether it made financial sense or not.


*This 'total cost of ownership' argument also assumes that someone can afford the up-front cost (or can finance it) – it's one of those situations where poorer people can end up paying more because they can't afford an up-front cost that saves money over time.

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

Nice to hear a realistic bit of chat.

I'd be driving around in an EV now if it made financial sense to me, but:

1. I only buy a car about every 10 years or so - for me, that's more eco-friendly than changing cars every 2 or 3 years whether it's ICE or electric. Last car I bought was 5 years ago, and I was priced out of even looking at electric/hybrid at that point
2. I don't tend to buy new
3. I don't generally drive many miles, apart from if I do a one-off trip to a holiday destination or something

So it feels to me that given the low mileage and high purchase price, it wouldn't make economical sense, even if I was looking to buy another car, to go electric. And whilst I care about the environment, I don't care enough to be thousands of pounds out of pocket.

I'll definitely look at the electric options next time I look at switching cars, but right now I can't see where the value lies. (Other than being able to lord it over others as I will have assumed the lofty moral high ground :wink:)

Oh and on the analogy of people on horses suggesting cars aren't the way forward: the point I was making about it being a crap analogy is that fundamentally electric cars don't do anything better than ICE cars, do they? They don't go faster, they can't travel further. Speed and distance covered are pretty much the two main advantages of a car over a horse, no?

Happy to be corrected on any points above. Hopefully without any condescending comments :greengrin

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The purpose of this thread is for folk to share their experiences of EVs. Throwaway comments about taking the 'moral high ground' are totally unfair, to be honest.

Myself and MY have positive experiences of our cars. I don't think it's been condescending or evangelising at all. I think MY signed off with 'Go Electric!' at the end of his post. Which isn't really any more condescending as any of the posts on here on one of the multitude of threads on any other product under discussion; say, air fryers. Some folk like them, some don't.

The advantages of EVs are many, but of course you are leaving out the main one, they don't need petrol and so don't contribute to emissions in that respect. (and yes, they do have an environmental footprint in relation to the build and lithium production, which i think is well understood by most people).

The worst thing about driving EVs is the infrastructure we have to use, ie-the roads; both in terms of surface quality and congestion, which is what drivers of standard emission cars have to deal with too. Its a nightmare out there. That's why I think some of the comments about not buying EVs because the infrastructure isnt good enough yet are misplaced; Let's face it, if you crash landed here on from another planet and took a look at the infrastructure for driving ANY car in the UK, you would say the infrastructure isn't sufficiently developed either! The road network is broken due to decades of under investment on maintenance, decades of ripping the heart of our public transport alternatives, and too many cars being built. EV drivers needing a few thousand more charging points for our needs is a relatively minor problem in comparison.

I still think we missed the boat (pun?) when we didnt invest in monorail and hoverboards.

I have a friend who lives in Assynt who has an electric car and has written a blog about it.



https://www.vasten.co.uk/blog/index....ectric-Driving

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The ICE engine is obviously better just now and they are easier (filled) at the moment than electric. Unfortunately they are helping kill the planet so really must go.

Range anxiety it definitely overplayed . It's also easy though to look down if your lucky enough to have a house with a driveway and afford the huge cost in getting an EV, some people can't begin to think about spending 20k in this financial climate.

Things will get better though. Batteries will get better and charging points more regularl. It's brilliant that many are switching the more the merrier but it'll take time and it's up to the government to help speed it up but that costs

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What's the £20k for?

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

What's the £20k for?

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An estimate for an EV that can do say 300 miles. I could have said there are many out their that have a car and won't be able to pay 2k in this climate. Mass production will bring down the cost and more and more second hand cars.

My daughter is doing her lessons and I was looking at getting a run around for her to run about in. For under 4k all you can get is a 12 year old leaf that can do about 90 miles

They are the future and they are great but it will take time

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

The purpose of this thread is for folk to share their experiences of EVs. Throwaway comments about taking the 'moral high ground' are totally unfair, to be honest.

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Just to clarify, that comment was tongue in cheek. But the thread started as a rant about EVs and had someone comparing people not considering EVs to those who used to ride horses rather than go by car, so hopefully you'll forgive me the throwaway comment.

I'm not on any side of the fence here, other than ensuring that I get value for money out of large ticket purchases, which I think most people can get on board with!

Sent from my YAL-L21 using Tapatalk

Drove up from Edinburgh to Skye for a 3 day getaway this week. Its barely any different from using a petrol car. Stopped at Pitlochry, the Nae Limits cafe is a favourite stop, just off the motorway, decent food and a couple of fast chargers. An hour stop for food coffee had me back up to full capacity which got us right up to Skye, even on a relatively cold day and with the hilly terrain as you pass Spean Bridge only giving a range of about 170 miles. And once youre on Skye its very well served.

I think a lot of people are put off EVs by the extra time it puts on journey times. But a lot if the time you’d be having pit stops at service stations if you were car driving anyway…its often no difference. In my case it put an extra half an hour on a 6 hour drive. Its still frustrating how many stations are out of order on the way, but there are still multiple options a few miles apart especially if youre using the phone app.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Drove up from Edinburgh to Skye for a 3 day getaway this week. Its barely any different from using a petrol car. Stopped at Pitlochry, the Nae Limits cafe is a favourite stop, just off the motorway, decent food and a couple of fast chargers. An hour stop for food coffee had me back up to full capacity which got us right up to Skye, even on a relatively cold day and with the hilly terrain as you pass Spean Bridge only giving a range of about 170 miles. And once youre on Skye its very well served.

I think a lot of people are put off EVs by the extra time it puts on journey times. But a lot if the time you’d be having pit stops at service stations if you were car driving anyway…its often no difference. In my case it put an extra half an hour on a 6 hour drive. Its still frustrating how many stations are out of order on the way, but there are still multiple options a few miles apart especially if youre using the phone app.

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Pet peeve, Nae Limits is in Ballinluig, 5 miles south of Pitlochry. 😉

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Pet peeve, Nae Limits is in Ballinluig, 5 miles south of Pitlochry. 😉

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N’ell thats a weird peeve :faf:
Yes, thats true, and there are other charging options available in the area!

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

N’ell thats a weird peeve :faf:
Yes, thats true, and there are other charging options available in the area!

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OK. Put another way, if someone was heading north and saw that as a recommendation for Nae Limits, then they will have missed it. I realise that there are lots of cafes in pitlochry itself, but Nae Limits isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

OK. Put another way, if someone was heading north and saw that as a recommendation for Nae Limits, then they will have missed it. I realise that there are lots of cafes in pitlochry itself, but Nae Limits isn't one of them.

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You are correct, its near Pitlochry, not in Pitlochry. If anyone is in any doubt im sure they would be using an app to search it out anyway and found the exact location for themselves regardless.

Range is still an issue, probably more from the point of view of those using electric vehicles for business rather than for more recreational driving.

My mate recently bought a BMW IX3, the advertised range is 285 miles but he says in reality it's closer to 210-220. For a vehicle priced at around the £70K mark that seems frankly rubbish. He has to drive from Nice to Milan twice a month for work and he just won't use it because it necessitates a charging stop both on the way there and the way back. He can use a Volvo XC40, a mild hybrid, from his work car pool and on a full tank of petrol can do the journey there and back with enough fuel left to do his weekly shop and drop his bairn at football training.

I led a project at work a couple of years back looking at replacing all our company vehicles with electric and it just didn't stack up. The direct replacement for our Mercedes Sprinters had a range then of 230 miles but when we tested them over a 72 hour period it was closer to 170-180 with a full load; I think the advertised range has improved to 270 now but that's still not great. Our issue was we have a route from Edinburgh that takes in Aberdeen and areas slightly further north and from Glasgow a route that goes down to Campbeltown. Both would have required the driver to stop and charge and indeed we used the latter route as a test and the driver had to stop and recharge twice. I think the rapid charge time was about 40 minutes for 80% so that's adding a fair chunk on to their day. Probably not an issue if you are toddling off for a tour of the Springbank distillery or to see the fireballs in Stonehaven but when you have limited driving hours and tight delivery windows it becomes an issue. In the end we opted to change our town vehicles but stay with ICE for the longer routes.

I'm sure it will continue to improve and it's something we are keen to revisit in the medium term. For now though issues around range or perception of range will persist. The infrastructure has undoubtedly improved but it's also still nowhere near ready for a mass change to electric.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Range is still an issue, probably more from the point of view of those using electric vehicles for business rather than for more recreational driving.

My mate recently bought a BMW IX3, the advertised range is 285 miles but he says in reality it's closer to 210-220. For a vehicle priced at around the £70K mark that seems frankly rubbish. He has to drive from Nice to Milan twice a month for work and he just won't use it because it necessitates a charging stop both on the way there and the way back. He can use a Volvo XC40, a mild hybrid, from his work car pool and on a full tank of petrol can do the journey there and back with enough fuel left to do his weekly shop and drop his bairn at football training.

I led a project at work a couple of years back looking at replacing all our company vehicles with electric and it just didn't stack up. The direct replacement for our Mercedes Sprinters had a range then of 230 miles but when we tested them over a 72 hour period it was closer to 170-180 with a full load; I think the advertised range has improved to 270 now but that's still not great. Our issue was we have a route from Edinburgh that takes in Aberdeen and areas slightly further north and from Glasgow a route that goes down to Campbeltown. Both would have required the driver to stop and charge and indeed we used the latter route as a test and the driver had to stop and recharge twice. I think the rapid charge time was about 40 minutes for 80% so that's adding a fair chunk on to their day. Probably not an issue if you are toddling off for a tour of the Springbank distillery or to see the fireballs in Stonehaven but when you have limited driving hours and tight delivery windows it becomes an issue. In the end we opted to change our town vehicles but stay with ICE for the longer routes.

I'm sure it will continue to improve and it's something we are keen to revisit in the medium term. For now though issues around range or perception of range will persist. The infrastructure has undoubtedly improved but it's also still nowhere near ready for a mass change to electric.

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I think where businesses are concerned and cases where ‘time is money’,(as opposed to a relaxed 3 day window where losing 30 minutes on a six hour drive isn’t really a big deal), your business is probably right not to switch just now.

Really interesting thread to read as we’re thinking of taking the plunge.

Whenever my wife and I buy a new car, we pay in full and then chuck £50 each a month in to an account ready for the next one. We have a Citroen C1 so extremely economical on fuel, but my 35 mile round trip to crawl to work can cost anything up to £140 a month in fuel. So that’s £240 a month straight away, and our local dealer has got a deal on a 100% electric Citroen eC4 for £280 a month.

I know there’s going to be the outlay for the charger on our drive plus the extra electric costs, but to end up with a brand new car for an extra £40 a month extra seems almost too good to be true?