Matt Macey

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Originally Posted by bingo70

FWIW I’d like is to sign the ex hearts ******* and current Rangers ******* Jon McLaughlin.

I know he’ll be on more than we can afford just now but I have a hunch he’ll want to be playing first team football. Macey as back up to him would be fine with me.

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Hibs fan too isn’t he?

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Do mistakes only happen if they come to goals?

Tone of your posts are annoying me though. Don’t understand why there’s need to be a prick about it. You just disagree with me, that’s fine.

For me, I think there’s been glimpses of things I’ve been a bit concerned about with him. Not been obvious errors, I’m just not convinced by him.

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Do you think Rocky doesn’t have quite a few flaws in his game that have shown themselves up fairly regularly?

Marciano has been good for us but I do find it strange you’re saying Macey will never be spoken about in the same breath on the basis of very little obvious so far.

It could turn out that he isn’t as good but surely only time would tell us that?

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Originally Posted by Iggy Pope

Hibs fan too isn’t he?

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His family are Hibs fans.

I remember him saying that when he played for Hearts.

There’s an interview with Jack Ross when he was at Sunderland saying how good McLaughlin was for him. I can’t be bothered finding it but it exists.

I would be surprised if we don’t make a move for him but that’s based on absolutely nothing other than a semi educated guess.

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Originally Posted by Shrekko

Do you think Rocky doesn’t have quite a few flaws in his game that have shown themselves up fairly regularly?

Marciano has been good for us but I do find it strange you’re saying Macey will never be spoken about in the same breath on the basis of very little obvious so far.

It could turn out that he isn’t as good but surely only time would tell us that?

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Not really no.

He’s obviously not perfect but I don’t think any of his flaws are anything that really cause us problems.

His mistakes are minimal, the other things he gets criticised for are his distribution (no big deal for me) and that he doesn’t come for crosses (nonsense imo)

It’s just an opinion though, I might be right, I might be wrong, I’m just saying that there’s something about Macey and his performances to date that makes me think he won’t be a future number one for us. I don’t think I’ve said anything too derogatory about him and he might prove me wrong, I just don’t think he will.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Not really no.

He’s obviously not perfect but I don’t think any of his flaws are anything that really cause us problems.

His mistakes are minimal, the other things he gets criticised for are his distribution (no big deal for me) and that he doesn’t come for crosses (nonsense imo)

It’s just an opinion though, I might be right, I might be wrong, I’m just saying that there’s something about Macey and his performances to date that makes me think he won’t be a future number one for us. I don’t think I’ve said anything too derogatory about him and he might prove me wrong, I just don’t think he will.

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Bingo, don't get me wrong, I like Rocky and he is and has been a great keeper for us. But his distribution is poor and it should worry his next side, as if you watch some of the goals we concede, often they have come from Rocky either being sloppy in his distribution under no pressure, or putting our back four under unnecessary pressure. Top shot stopper, and like you I can't understand the 'doesn't come for crosses' criticism (as he does well on them), but he ranks up there as one of the poorest from feet (particularly under no pressure) I've seen.

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Originally Posted by truehibernian

Bingo, don't get me wrong, I like Rocky and he is and has been a great keeper for us. But his distribution is poor and it should worry his next side, as if you watch some of the goals we concede, often they have come from Rocky either being sloppy in his distribution under no pressure, or putting our back four under unnecessary pressure. Top shot stopper, and like you I can't understand the 'doesn't come for crosses' criticism (as he does well on them), but he ranks up there as one of the poorest from feet (particularly under no pressure) I've seen.

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In terms of distribution i set my standards at Jim Leighton and anything above that I’m happy.

Unfortunately for Matt Macey I also set my shot stopping standards at his level too 😉 😂

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Originally Posted by truehibernian

Bingo, don't get me wrong, I like Rocky and he is and has been a great keeper for us. But his distribution is poor and it should worry his next side, as if you watch some of the goals we concede, often they have come from Rocky either being sloppy in his distribution under no pressure, or putting our back four under unnecessary pressure. Top shot stopper, and like you I can't understand the 'doesn't come for crosses' criticism (as he does well on them), but he ranks up there as one of the poorest from feet (particularly under no pressure) I've seen.

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It’s a really interesting debate and I think it’s how’s pretty much everyone see things different when it comes to goalies.

I like Rocky too as he’s a match winner but I’m amazed at anyone who thinks he does as well on crosses as he should. He’s a big hulk of a guy but really doesn’t come for much at all outside his 6 yard box and sometimes it’s a flap.

I don’t expect perfection though - he’s been a cracking servant who I wish good luck.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

In terms of distribution i set my standards at Jim Leighton and anything above that I’m happy.

Unfortunately for Matt Macey I also set my shot stopping standards at his level too 😉 😂

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:aok: the good thing for both Rocky and Macey are neither have Jim's bandy legs :greengrin

Jim was a superb goalkeeper :agree:

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Think he got his positioning wrong for the goal against Celtic at parkhead.

There was a goal in a league game shortly after I thought he could have done better with and same applies to the goal he lost at Queen of the south.

By no means obvious mistakes and you’re right, I’m maybe being over critical.

I just think in Marciano we have a really top notch match winner as a keeper, I don’t think Macey is in the same league as him.

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If you mean the freekick im not sure thats fair. If hes beat on his own side fair enough but i dont think theres much wrong with his movement or positioning there. Hes also made a great low block save and one in particular, one handed top hand save from distance just touching it over the bar was as good as a goal. Even more so as it was pouring with rain that day and obviously super slippy. He had an excellent game that day.

Some great saves, decent distribution, no obvious mistakes, Macey is a definite Yes so far from me.

I think Rockys distribution will be an issue for him if he moves up a level after leaving us.

Watching football now and about 60% of what keepers do is with their feet. Simply banging a 50/50 ball to half way isn't good enough. I can't stand him but Allan McGreggor was pinging 60 yard passes to feet throughout their game today. In the EPL and top half of the Championship down south teams quite happily knock triangle passes about their own 18 yard box using the keeper. I'm not sure Rocky is capable of that. If he's nervy that spreads throughout the team.

I played football as a keeper at a decent level. I'm honest enough to say I would be nowhere near that level now because I'm not a good enough footballer. I was a good shot stopper, brave and commanding but I'd have been totally found out in the modern game with the ball at my feet. I'm Sunday league level there.

'I want my keeper to be keepers' is yesterday news. To kick on you need the whole package. Watch the Hibs keepers warming up, the 1st 10-15 minutes is all passing and kicking.

Macey does look better than Rocky at crosses in my opinion, in fact i dont feel as if we are relying on the defenders as much when he's in goal.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

Macey does look better than Rocky at crosses in my opinion, in fact i dont feel as if we are relying on the defenders as much when he's in goal.

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I thought it was an area Bogdan bettered him as well. He was a less assured shot stopper but I enjoyed watching him come out 10-12 yards and pluck a cross out the air.

Tbh I don't mind a keeper not coming for crosses. All the '6 yard box and it's the keepers' stuff is nonsense. Shay Given rarely came for crosses and he was a top keeper, Andy Goram was the same. I do enjoy when it does happen though, if they are confident when doing so it takes so much pressure off.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I think Rockys distribution will be an issue for him if he moves up a level after leaving us.

Watching football now and about 60% of what keepers do is with their feet. Simply banging a 50/50 ball to half way isn't good enough. I can't stand him but Allan McGreggor was pinging 60 yard passes to feet throughout their game today. In the EPL and top half of the Championship down south teams quite happily knock triangle passes about their own 18 yard box using the keeper. I'm not sure Rocky is capable of that. If he's nervy that spreads throughout the team.

I played football as a keeper at a decent level. I'm honest enough to say I would be nowhere near that level now because I'm not a good enough footballer. I was a good shot stopper, brave and commanding but I'd have been totally found out in the modern game with the ball at my feet. I'm Sunday league level there.

'I want my keeper to be keepers' is yesterday news. To kick on you need the whole package. Watch the Hibs keepers warming up, the 1st 10-15 minutes is all passing and kicking.

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Good post PB, and without being a goalkeeper is an art and a skill and a crucial position on the pitch. What annoys me about any top level keeper is far far too many float balls out of play, under no pressure, and don't take time to consider their distribution. Watch Rocky when he gets a chance to play a ball under no pressure..........to simply boot a ball out of play is very poor game management and he does it way too often. He counters this by being incredibly good at shot stopping and making himself big when strikers are in the penalty box..........that I have to say is something he is extremely good at.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

I’m not convinced by him at all. Not sure why but I’m just not.

He’s not done anything of note wrong I just think he doesn’t look the most mobile and there’s been one or two free lve thought his positioning at free kicks has been suspect.

Fine for a back up keeper but he’d be a downgrade on Marciano as first choice IMO.

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Id sign him if we can. I think he’s all class and at least as good as Rocky. Decent with feet, commanding and a good shot stopper. Nothing I’ve seen would put me off him.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I thought it was an area Bogdan bettered him as well. He was a less assured shot stopper but I enjoyed watching him come out 10-12 yards and pluck a cross out the air.

Tbh I don't mind a keeper not coming for crosses. All the '6 yard box and it's the keepers' stuff is nonsense. Shay Given rarely came for crosses and he was a top keeper, Andy Goram was the same. I do enjoy when it does happen though, if they are confident when doing so it takes so much pressure off.

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You’ll rarely see any keeper in the world ‘command his box’ - it’s an outdated and mental shout. The way the balls move, the pace they come in at, the numbers in the box, keepers would rather trust their defence to win headers, and trust their own shot stopping ability if the attacker wins it, rather than come into a crowded area and potentially make an arse of it.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

FWIW I’d like is to sign the ex hearts ******* and current Rangers ******* Jon McLaughlin.

I know he’ll be on more than we can afford just now but I have a hunch he’ll want to be playing first team football. Macey as back up to him would be fine with me.

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Decent shout I think.

Our recent keepers in Bogdan, Rocky and Macey I cant say its been a position I have particularly worried about for quite some time.

I hope we are able to keep him, he certainly hasn't done anything to worry me & he looks confident & imposing.
Gg

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

You’ll rarely see any keeper in the world ‘command his box’ - it’s an outdated and mental shout. The way the balls move, the pace they come in at, the numbers in the box, keepers would rather trust their defence to win headers, and trust their own shot stopping ability if the attacker wins it, rather than come into a crowded area and potentially make an arse of it.

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That’s not how goalies are coached. Certainly not on the SFA pathway.

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Originally Posted by Brightside

That’s not how goalies are coached. Certainly not on the SFA pathway.

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Ok, can you tell me some goalkeepers that regularly charge outside their 6 yard box into a crowded penalty area to claim crosses/corners? It’s certainly not part of routine coaching either, especially in game like situations.

There’s so many variables to coming out for crosses I just don’t think it’s something your average fan can know that much about.

How much movement is there on the ball?

Who is in front of the keeper?

What are the weather conditions like?

What do the defenders prefer? A keeper to come or for them to be left to it?

Who are the forwards in the box?

What happens if the keeper comes but drops it?

What is the keepers feet and positioning like at the exact moment of the cross coming in?

How deep Is the cross coming in from?

What’s the trajectory of the cross like?

Keeper has to answer all those questions in a split second, if they decide there’s less risk just to let they’re defenders head it then for the most part I think that makes complete sense.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I think Rockys distribution will be an issue for him if he moves up a level after leaving us.

Watching football now and about 60% of what keepers do is with their feet. Simply banging a 50/50 ball to half way isn't good enough. I can't stand him but Allan McGreggor was pinging 60 yard passes to feet throughout their game today. In the EPL and top half of the Championship down south teams quite happily knock triangle passes about their own 18 yard box using the keeper. I'm not sure Rocky is capable of that. If he's nervy that spreads throughout the team.

I played football as a keeper at a decent level. I'm honest enough to say I would be nowhere near that level now because I'm not a good enough footballer. I was a good shot stopper, brave and commanding but I'd have been totally found out in the modern game with the ball at my feet. I'm Sunday league level there.

'I want my keeper to be keepers' is yesterday news. To kick on you need the whole package. Watch the Hibs keepers warming up, the 1st 10-15 minutes is all passing and kicking.

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:agree: Hence why they train with outfield players more and more with each passing year.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

There’s so many variables to coming out for crosses I just don’t think it’s something your average fan can know that much about.

How much movement is there on the ball?

Who is in front of the keeper?

What are the weather conditions like?

What do the defenders prefer? A keeper to come or for them to be left to it?

Who are the forwards in the box?

What happens if the keeper comes but drops it?

What is the keepers feet and positioning like at the exact moment of the cross coming in?

How deep Is the cross coming in from?

What’s the trajectory of the cross like?

Keeper has to answer all those questions in a split second, if they decide there’s less risk just to let they’re defenders head it then for the most part I think that makes complete sense.

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100%.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

Ok, can you tell me some goalkeepers that regularly charge outside their 6 yard box into a crowded penalty area to claim crosses/corners? It’s certainly not part of routine coaching either, especially in game like situations.

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All of the top ones do it from time to time, its very much in a keepers toolbox, and yes, it is a major part of the keepers' learning pathway. If youre asking 'do they do it as much as they used to', the answer is probably no, but also there are a lot less crosses pinged into the box in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Played well today, 2 good saves considering he had nothing of note to do until then.

They tried to make a big deal of the cross he dropped but it was an awkward one and he had 2 men pressuring him. A bit of a scary moment but no big deal, it happens.

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Agreed, i think he was trying to make sure he kept his hands from crossing over the line with the ball.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

All of the top ones do it from time to time, its very much in a keepers toolbox, and yes, it is a major part of the keepers' learning pathway. If youre asking 'do they do it as much as they used to', the answer is probably no, but also there are a lot less crosses pinged into the box in the first place.

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Being a keeper, and watching keepers during games, I’d genuinely find it difficult to give you an example of a keeper claiming a whipped cross outwith his 6 yard box due to all the factors the poster above made. High floated crosses, easy, but Rocky does that too. That’s basics.

As for the ‘learning pathway’ - you can learn all you want at taking crosses under no pressure to improve handling etc, but I have never seen one session that is set up in game like scenarios with a crowded box, expecting a keeper to charge through bodies to take a cross.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

All of the top ones do it from time to time, its very much in a keepers toolbox, and yes, it is a major part of the keepers' learning pathway. If youre asking 'do they do it as much as they used to', the answer is probably no, but also there are a lot less crosses pinged into the box in the first place.

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One of the gripes a lot of people have with corners is 'it didn't even beat the 1st man'. Anyone can float a high ball into the box but that's one a keeper will love. Coming through a group of bodies to pluck a ball that is 8 foot in the air out of it is a simple joy for a keeper. The ones that sonetimes hit the 1st man are whipped, barely above head height and pacy. There's no real advantage for the keeper there and a lot of the time they are best left well alone.

There's a hell of a lot of nuances that some fans, and a lot of outfield players, want to oversimplify when it comes to crosses and goalkeepers.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

One of the gripes a lot of people have with corners is 'it didn't even beat the 1st man'. Anyone can float a high ball into the box but that's one a keeper will love. Coming through a group of bodies to pluck a ball that is 8 foot in the air out of it is a simple joy for a keeper. The ones that sonetimes hit the 1st man are whipped, barely above head height and pacy. There's no real advantage for the keeper there and a lot of the time they are best left well alone.

There's a hell of a lot of nuances that some fans, and a lot of outfield players, want to oversimplify when it comes to crosses and goalkeepers.

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Yes, absolutely love that post.

My pet hate is peoples pet hate about corners not beating the first man.

Absolutely anybody could sand wedge a corner into the box, nobody would ever score from them though.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

Being a keeper, and watching keepers during games, I’d genuinely find it difficult to give you an example of a keeper claiming a whipped cross outwith his 6 yard box due to all the factors the poster above made. High floated crosses, easy, but Rocky does that too. That’s basics.

As for the ‘learning pathway’ - you can learn all you want at taking crosses under no pressure to improve handling etc, but I have never seen one session that is set up in game like scenarios with a crowded box, expecting a keeper to charge through bodies to take a cross.

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There are plenty of sessions like that, including the ones the SFA run. Not sure what you mean by 'charging through bodies', it would be difficult to find all the players you need to replicate a crowded box (certainly to drag them away into a goalie session would raise a few eyebrows!), but yes, they use sessions with mannequins to replicate this scenario in drills.

back in the day one of my favourite keepers for doing this in actual games was David James. Fantastic to watch him coming up plucking crosses out of the air repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

I’m not convinced by him at all. Not sure why but I’m just not.

He’s not done anything of note wrong I just think he doesn’t look the most mobile and there’s been one or two free lve thought his positioning at free kicks has been suspect.

Fine for a back up keeper but he’d be a downgrade on Marciano as first choice IMO.

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I agree. Decent back up but he isn't as good as Rocky and if we don't get a replacement in the summer we'll be weaker between the sticks next season.