The EU Referendum (How did you vote?)

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Originally Posted by Sylar

I actually struggled to place an X accordingly today.

As an anti-Brexit, anti-Independence voter that vowed never to vote Lib Dem again after they ****ed over generations of students to come, it was a somewhat painful choice. I went Green in the end - well aware they back the SNP's policies on Independence, but as someone who works in climate change research and professionally preaches about the need for progressive green policies at the scale of the EU as well as regionally, that sealed it.

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I’m in a similar situation although I’m not that much into green policies either. I really struggle to bring myself to vote for either the SNP or the Greens. I’ve not voted yet but will do so tonight.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’m an SNP voter who voted leave but have now seen the error of my ways and I’m voting SNP in the hope of stopping brexit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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How will a vote for the SNP stop Brexit?

I'll vote after work, and I intend to vote for SNP. Had considered the Greens but can't see them making as much of a dent in the Brexit party vote as the SNP will.

Would never consider voting Lib Dem again, though I have in the past - they jumped into bed with the Tories and that's pretty much unforgivable, IMHO.

Labour are a shambles, and the Tories can GTF.

I'm still a bit surprised the anger so many potential LibDems have for the party going into government with the Tories.

The country was on it's arse and needed a government. The LibDems came in and made that possible. It's not a time anyone will look back upon fondly but who knows what kind of impact they may have had in taking the edge off the Tory austerity?

Personally, I have a bit of respect for them doing something for the good of the nation that was always going to be detrimental to them, and save my disgust for the lot who deserve it most - the far right.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

I'm still a bit surprised the anger so many potential LibDems have for the party going into government with the Tories.

The country was on it's arse and needed a government. The LibDems came in and made that possible. It's not a time anyone will look back upon fondly but who knows what kind of impact they may have had in taking the edge off the Tory austerity?

Personally, I have a bit of respect for them doing something for the good of the nation that was always going to be detrimental to them, and save my disgust for the lot who deserve it most - the far right.

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If they were the only party that had made some big commitment but never delivered on it then I could understand but all parties do it. If we voted by those principles all the time we would never vote for anyone.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

I'm still a bit surprised the anger so many potential LibDems have for the party going into government with the Tories.

The country was on it's arse and needed a government. The LibDems came in and made that possible. It's not a time anyone will look back upon fondly but who knows what kind of impact they may have had in taking the edge off the Tory austerity?

Personally, I have a bit of respect for them doing something for the good of the nation that was always going to be detrimental to them, and save my disgust for the lot who deserve it most - the far right.

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They didn't have to go into coalition. They could've let the Tories try as a minority and take it issue by issue.

Going back on or fudging your promises is one thing, enabling a bunch of *******s who most of your electorate are diametrically opposed to is quite another. I voted for them in 2010 (thankfully they didn't win our seat). Never again.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

That would be the SNP (1st place) by far. In fact, if every Green voter in Scotland voted SNP instead, then the Brexit Party would barely get a sniff. But because a portion of the pro-EU votes are going to the Greens (5th place) and the Lib Dems (6th place). The SNP don't gain those valuable votes and it helps the Brexit Party (2nd place) to gain seats.

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You need to know how the counting works first.

Illustration: watch from 38:00 to get a simple explanation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-nine-22052019

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

They didn't have to go into coalition. They could've let the Tories try as a minority and take it issue by issue.

Going back on or fudging your promises is one thing, enabling a bunch of *******s who most of your electorate are diametrically opposed to is quite another. I voted for them in 2010 (thankfully they didn't win our seat). Never again.

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Are the LibDem electorate diametrically opposed to the Tories? I wouldn't say opposite.

The Tories are an odd bunch. I wouldn't have thought there would be much that your average LibDem would find overly offensive about Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, even David Cameron. Rees-Mogg and chums I accept your point.

I'd consider the Rees-Moggs and the Corbyns to be opposites.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Are the LibDem electorate diametrically opposed to the Tories? I wouldn't say opposite.

The Tories are an odd bunch. I wouldn't have thought there would be much that your average LibDem would find overly offensive about Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, even David Cameron. Rees-Mogg and chums I accept.

I'd consider the Rees-Moggs and the Corbyns to be opposites.

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Well I voted for them (once) and I am. :greengrin

Tories exist to conserve wealth, power and privilege among those who already have it. They have a long tradition of opposing progressive measures and equality wherever they find it. As Matty says above, they can GTF.

based on the poll (22 votes)

SNP 4 seats
Brexit 1 seat
Green 1 seat

I would be happy with that :wink:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

I'm still a bit surprised the anger so many potential LibDems have for the party going into government with the Tories.

The country was on it's arse and needed a government. The LibDems came in and made that possible. It's not a time anyone will look back upon fondly but who knows what kind of impact they may have had in taking the edge off the Tory austerity?

Personally, I have a bit of respect for them doing something for the good of the nation that was always going to be detrimental to them, and save my disgust for the lot who deserve it most - the far right.

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Yes, the UK needed a Government. The Lib Dems could have chosen Labour, but chose the tories instead. Never ever forget. They CHOSE the tories.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Would never consider voting Lib Dem again, though I have in the past - they jumped into bed with the Tories and that's pretty much unforgivable, IMHO.

Labour are a shambles, and the Tories can GTF.

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I vowed never to vote SNP again after the 1979 referendum. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I vowed never to vote SNP again after the 1979 referendum. :wink:

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What did they do wrong in the 1979 referendum? They weren't the ones who shifted the goal posts.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

I'm still a bit surprised the anger so many potential LibDems have for the party going into government with the Tories.

The country was on it's arse and needed a government. The LibDems came in and made that possible. It's not a time anyone will look back upon fondly but who knows what kind of impact they may have had in taking the edge off the Tory austerity?

Personally, I have a bit of respect for them doing something for the good of the nation that was always going to be detrimental to them, and save my disgust for the lot who deserve it most - the far right.

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The Lib Dems are the last party I would vote for in this election. They are political opportunists on a grand scale with no backbone..

Willie Rennie has spent the last 3 years arguing not to have a 'divisive' 2nd independence referendum, but is standing on a platform at the Euro elections of arguing for a 2nd Brexit referendum - somehow he considers Brexitref2 not to be divisive:faf: They are a bunch of chancers.

Edit - maybe indyref2 can be named a Peoples Vote for independence and the Lib Dems can support it.

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Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes

The Lib Dems are the last party I would vote for in this election. They are political opportunists on a grand scale with no backbone..

Willie Rennie has spent the last 3 years arguing not to have a 'divisive' 2nd independence referendum, but is standing on a platform at the Euro elections of arguing for a 2nd Brexit referendum - somehow he considers Brexitref2 not to be divisive:faf: They are a bunch of chancers.

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It's blatantly obvious that those voting for them are going to be stabbed in the back big time. Then they can be angry with them for another decade, before forgetting all about it and voting for them yet again.

The Lib Dems don't even have a plan to prevent brexit. There is quite literally nothing they can do to halt it, regardless of how many seats they take. The SNP at least know what they need to do in order to get Scotland out of it.

I recall getting into a verbal tussle with Alex-Cole Hamilton regarding the amount of money each party spent in the EU referendum. He was blasting the SNP, claiming that they didn't spend nearly enough on the campaign while boasting how much more the Lib Dems spent. What he omitted to mention was that he was talking about the Lib Dems entire spending over the whole of the UK, not just in Scotland. If the SNP spending had been replicated over the UK as a whole, it would have been several times more than what the Lib Dems spent. They are honestly a complete farce of a party.

Heard a few stories about EU nationals denied a vote even though they were registered.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Heard a few stories about EU nationals denied a vote even though they were registered.

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Me and me EU national partner will be heading down to vote later this evening so we'll see what happens I guess.

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Originally Posted by Diclonius

Me and me EU national partner will be heading down to vote later this evening so we'll see what happens I guess.

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They have until 9pm to challenge the polling officer.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Heard a few stories about EU nationals denied a vote even though they were registered.

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Seemingly the UK gov "forgot" to send off paperwork for EU nationals who had registered to vote here. Joanna Cherry raised it at PMQ's yesterday (obv she was multitasking with fiendish plotting ongoing :devil:). May just shrugged and then had her usual rant about how unfair it is nobody likes her.

https://www.electoralcommission.org....ment-elections

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

https://www.electoralcommission.org....ment-elections

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-admin-errors

The Cherry - May exchange here:

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/st...85997088268288

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

What did they do wrong in the 1979 referendum? They weren't the ones who shifted the goal posts.

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I guess it's how one reacts to them being moved that matters.

However, as moot as that may be, the SNP supported the Tories' vote of no confidence in the Labour Government leading to Thatcher winning the '79 election.

They were ably accompanied by those nice folks in the DUP, the UUP and the UUUP.

Forgivable?

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

They didn't have to go into coalition. They could've let the Tories try as a minority and take it issue by issue.

Going back on or fudging your promises is one thing, enabling a bunch of *******s who most of your electorate are diametrically opposed to is quite another. I voted for them in 2010 (thankfully they didn't win our seat). Never again.

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The SNP didn’t have to enter in to an agreement with the Tories to prop up the 2007-11 minority government. They chose to do it.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I guess it depends on how one reacts to them being moved that matters.

However, as moot as that may be, the SNP supported the Tories vote of no confidence in the Labour Government leading to Thatcher winning the '79 election.

Forgivable?

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After Labour changed the rules of what the referendum in Scotland actually meant. Yes, it was entirely forgivable and understandable that the SNP did not want to support their government.

However, Labour didn't fail because of the SNP. They failed because one of their own MPs at the time Sir Alfred Broughton was too ill to attend parliament (and sadly passed away not long after). The deputy chief Labour whip Walter Harrison approached Bernard Weatherill (the Conservative speaker) to enforce the "pairing convention". Which is an informal agreement between the ruling party and the opposition parties that in the event of an MP not be able to attend due to illness, the opposition have one of their own MPs abstain to make up for the loss. Bernard Weatherill offered to be the MP who would abstain for the Conservative Party and Walter Harrison turned the offer down.

Labour could have prevented Thatcher but chose not to enforce the pairing convention. We all know what happened next.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/s...64081662631936

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I guess it's how one reacts to them being moved that matters.

However, as moot as that may be, the SNP supported the Tories' vote of no confidence in the Labour Government leading to Thatcher winning the '79 election.

They were ably accompanied by those nice folks in the DUP, the UUP and the UUUP.

Forgivable?

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More dead people were counted for a No vote than supported the Tories. Just ask Jim and his 34 labour rebels. 😱

Back on track, SNP. 🏁

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

After Labour changed the rules of what the referendum in Scotland actually meant. Yes, it was entirely forgivable and understandable that the SNP did not want to support their government.

However, Labour didn't fail because of the SNP. They failed because one of their own MPs at the time Sir Alfred Broughton was too ill to attend parliament (and sadly passed away not long after). The deputy chief Labour whip Walter Harrison approached Bernard Weatherill (the Conservative speaker) to enforce the "pairing convention". Which is an informal agreement between the ruling party and the opposition parties that in the event of an MP not be able to attend due to illness, the opposition have one of their own MPs abstain to make up for the loss. Bernard Weatherill offered to be the MP who would abstain for the Conservative Party and Walter Harrison turned the offer down.

Labour could have prevented Thatcher but chose not to enforce the pairing convention. We all know what happened next.

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The SNP voted with the Tories against Labour out of self interest, just like all political parties always do.

However, this self interest very quickly became self harm. Their share of the vote was almost halved and they lost 9 of their 11 seats.

We then had to endure Thatcher for 11 years and a total of 18 years of Tory government.

If "people like me" can put that utter betrayal of the Scottish people behind them and vote SNP again, then the electorate will forgive just about anything, given the right circumstances and time.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

More dead people were counted for a No vote than supported the Tories. Just ask Jim and his 34 labour rebels. 😱

Back on track, SNP. 🏁

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I remember, Ronnie.

The point is about the electorate being able to forget or forgive past behaviours (if that's the right word).

I was a member of the SNP then and I thought we were going to, literally, change the world.

Then one vote of confidence later and crash, bang, wallop.

Voted Green and will probably continue to do so from now on.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

The SNP voted with the Tories against Labour out of self interest, just like all political parties always do.

However, this self interest very quickly became self harm. Their share of the vote was almost halved and they lost 9 of their 11 seats.

We then had to endure Thatcher for 11 years and a total of 18 years of Tory government.

If "people like me" can put that utter betrayal of the Scottish people behind them and vote SNP again, then the electorate will forgive just about anything, given the right circumstances and time.

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The SNP didn't vote with anyone. They voted against Labour on their own accord. They weren't giving it high fives to the tories. They were more than likely gobsmacked that Labour turned down the offer to remain in Government.

Labour made the error of believing that it was their god given right to claim the SNP votes after what they did to Scotland. So many decades of potential Scottish wealth, flushed down the river Thames. All because Labour bent the rules when they didn't like the way the referendum was heading.

In truth, it wasn't the SNP that was damaged, it was Scotland on a whole.