Romanov to stand trial

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05-11-2018, 10:51 AM
cocteautwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by FitzAlan

The net deficiency of assets per BDO's Statement of Liabilities in Administration lodged at Companies House 2 December 2013 was £43,684,551, which will include losses brought forward accumulated under previous regimes. The revised list of known creditors was finally confirmed as being £33,920,645.30 on 29 November 2015. The revised total was caused by Heriot Watt University having amended their claim, presumably for the full term of the lease agreement rather than merely the arrears.

I feel the debt for equity swaps should be taken together with the inter-company write offs characterised in the accounts in certain other years as "forgiveness of debt" by the parent entity, as both were mechanisms by which debt was transferred to the parent's balance sheet. Taken together, these total £40.7m, so it can be fairly stated that Hearts contributed £84m of losses to the group insolvency which precipitated their administration. This is approximately a quarter of the overall group debt for which Romanov is finally being prosecuted.

This can corroborated by adding up the net losses before debt restructuring and disposals of intangible assets (i.e. player sales) in the statutory accounts from 31 July 2006 to 30 June 2013, each of the full accounting periods during Romanov's tenure as a shadow director, which total £75.7m. There is a cumulative loss of £1.9m on intangibles in the same period.

Astonishing amounts. One could perhaps add their current accumulated spend of £18m of outside funds in the Budge era to get a figure of over £100m that they’ve had access to that their local rivals could never dream of matching.

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05-11-2018, 11:21 AM
Hibs4185

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

Astonishing amounts. One could perhaps add their current accumulated spend of £18m of outside funds in the Budge era to get a figure of over £100m that they’ve had access to that their local rivals could never dream of matching.

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A hundred million and you ****ed it up
A hundred million and you ****ed it up
A hundred million and you ****ed it up

New song 😂
05-11-2018, 11:35 AM
greenginger

I wonder if the Lith. authorities have been able to dig up any of Ukio Bankas/UBIG 's incriminating paperwork.

I'm thinking of payments made to players ( Skachel for one ) not through the football club books. Or maybe payments routed to football officials ( no names needed )

He was known to have corrupted Lithuanian football, so why not here.
05-11-2018, 11:51 AM
The 90+2

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastmainsmsh

Vlad shafted the jambos remember medals mackay and the yams welcoming him on TV wearing cossack hats comedy 🥇

I’m not sure how you can claim be shafted them? He played football manager with other people’s money.
05-11-2018, 11:56 AM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90+2

I’m not sure how you can claim be shafted them? He played football manager with other people’s money.

Didn't he do a share issue where certificates were never issued and suitcases full of cash made that last journey out the country with him?[emoji5]

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05-11-2018, 12:09 PM
Deansy

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastmainsmsh

Vlad shafted the jambos remember medals mackay and the yams welcoming him on TV wearing cossack hats comedy 🥇

Surely someone still has the video (or a link ??) of the Muppets welcoming Vlad to the PBS - where one of them follows him around the pitch constantly bleating 'Vlad, Vlad, Vlad .......' as if he was desparate to offer Vlad his wife/daughters/granny for anything that Vlad wanted ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

I wonder if the Lith. authorities have been able to dig up any of Ukio Bankas/UBIG 's incriminating paperwork.

I'm thinking of payments made to players ( Skachel for one ) not through the football club books. Or maybe payments routed to football officials ( no names needed )

He was known to have corrupted Lithuanian football, so why not here.

Said this for a while and if these charges have any teeth, it'll be very interesting to see what Vlad will offer-up in an attempt to reduce his final sentence ??
05-11-2018, 12:14 PM
Alan62

Quote:

Originally Posted by FitzAlan

The net deficiency of assets per BDO's Statement of Liabilities in Administration lodged at Companies House 2 December 2013 was £43,684,551, which will include losses brought forward accumulated under previous regimes. The revised list of known creditors was finally confirmed as being £33,920,645.30 on 29 November 2015. The revised total was caused by Heriot Watt University having amended their claim, presumably for the full term of the lease agreement rather than merely the arrears.

The debt for equity swaps should be taken together with the inter-company write offs characterised in the accounts in certain other years as "forgiveness of debt" by the parent entity, as both were mechanisms by which debt was transferred to the parent's balance sheet. Taken together, these total £40.7m, so it can be fairly stated that Hearts contributed £84m of losses to the group insolvency which precipitated their administration. This is approximately a quarter of the overall group debt for which Romanov is finally being prosecuted.

This can be corroborated by adding up the net losses before debt restructuring and disposals of intangible assets (i.e. player sales) in the statutory accounts from 31 July 2006 to 30 June 2013, each of the full accounting periods during Romanov's tenure as a shadow director, which total £75.7m. There is a cumulative loss of £1.9m on intangibles in the same period.

So pretty much just the Pieman’s debt and a wee bitty extra after all.
05-11-2018, 12:28 PM
greenginger

[QUOTE=Deansy;5597130]Surely someone still has the video (or a link ??) of the Muppets welcoming Vlad to the PBS - where one of them follows him around the pitch constantly bleating 'Vlad, Vlad, Vlad .......' as if he was desparate to offer Vlad his wife/daughters/granny for anything that Vlad wanted ??

Said this for a while and if these charges have any teeth, it'll be very interesting to see what Vlad will offer-up in an attempt to reduce his final sentence ??[/QUet OTE]

No chance they'll ever get him out of Russia while Putin is in charge.

But, maybe he'll write a tell-all book, as a get it up yous to everyone, not just football, who shared his ill gotten wealth.
05-11-2018, 12:33 PM
Alan62

Still an awful lot of love for him on Kickback. Their enthusiasm for the cheating days is undiminished too. You can almost sense that a return to the ‘rollercoaster’ would be more than welcomed by many of our maroon pals. It’s almost like they have no morals. Who knew?
05-11-2018, 03:00 PM
Deansy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan62

Still an awful lot of love for him on Kickback. Their enthusiasm for the cheating days is undiminished too. You can almost sense that a return to the ‘rollercoaster’ would be more than welcomed by many of our maroon pals. It’s almost like they have no morals. Who knew?

Of course there is, he made their greatest fantasy come true - he made them actually believe that they were a 'Big team' ! The fact that there was no foundation whatsoever for this belief is lost on them - it matters even less to the majority of them that they'll forever be known as 'Charity Thieves FC' !
05-11-2018, 03:05 PM
Alan62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deansy

Of course there is, he made their greatest fantasy come true - he made them actually believe that they were a 'Big team' ! The fact that there was no foundation whatsoever for this belief is lost on them - it matters even less to the majority of them that they'll forever be known as 'Charity Thieves FC' !

They don't care it nearly killed them. They don't care that innocent people's lives were adversely affected. They'd do it all again.
05-11-2018, 03:06 PM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deansy

Of course there is, he made their greatest fantasy come true - he made them actually believe that they were a 'Big team' ! The fact that there was no foundation whatsoever for this belief is lost on them - it matters even less to the majority of them that they'll forever be known as 'Charity Thieves FC' !

It was the only time in their entire history where they voluntarily produced a list of people they owed money to, but decided not to pay, that uniquely included both the lady Haig Poppy Fund and the Macraes Battalion Trust at the same time.

Their very own list.

Heady days indeed, no wonder some of the gullible shameless idiots miss it.

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05-11-2018, 03:17 PM
Famous Fiver

They have got a McRaes Battalion production on at the moment at Tynecastle apparently.

Wonder if any mention is being made of the unpaid debt to the Lady Haig Poppy Fund or the Macrae Battalion Trust?

Selective in their history I am afraid.

Pop down to Easter Road and find out about Hibs contribution to MacRaes Battalion.

Humbling and not paraded like a trophy but a true story of the ultimate sacrifice.
06-11-2018, 12:10 AM
cocteautwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan62

They don't care it nearly killed them. They don't care that innocent people's lives were adversely affected. They'd do it all again.

You do have to ask yourself, would you welcome a criminal gangster owner at Hibs who can provide you with a couple of Scottish cups and other victories if all it took was one year of pain in the Championship at the end? What would you remember? The 2 Scottish cups or the temporary blip of one year relegation?

Hibs have played it all by the book and we had to suffer 3 years out of the top league and many years of mediocrity. Maybe there's a naive culture difference between us and them whereby they use any means for success on and off the pitch. Hibs would never entertain the idea of vulgar long throws in to the box or a game plan totally dependent on launching balls up to big guys or aggressive play for a whole game. The thought of relying on external money over and above the normal income of a football club really isn't something we've ever done either. That's probably the big cultural difference in those years they have more success than us. Is it naive on our part?
06-11-2018, 01:47 AM
FilipinoHibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weegreenman

ago

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...manov-13530163

Sadly he’ll only get tried in his absence

The 300 million is the hole in Ukio Bankas's balance sheet made good by depositors in the bank and the Lihuanian tax payer. Nearly a quarter down to Hearts - 30 million debt and 40 million written off or converted to worthless equity by Romanov. None of which he ever paid back to UB through his UBIG investment vehicle.
06-11-2018, 08:43 AM
Alan62

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

You do have to ask yourself, would you welcome a criminal gangster owner at Hibs who can provide you with a couple of Scottish cups and other victories if all it took was one year of pain in the Championship at the end? What would you remember? The 2 Scottish cups or the temporary blip of one year relegation?

Hibs have played it all by the book and we had to suffer 3 years out of the top league and many years of mediocrity. Maybe there's a naive culture difference between us and them whereby they use any means for success on and off the pitch. Hibs would never entertain the idea of vulgar long throws in to the box or a game plan totally dependent on launching balls up to big guys or aggressive play for a whole game. The thought of relying on external money over and above the normal income of a football club really isn't something we've ever done either. That's probably the big cultural difference in those years they have more success than us. Is it naive on our part?

I wouldn't call it naivety. I'd like to think that we're naturally more idealistic and have a strong moral centre. I don't want a gangster owner - or a rich sheikh or an oligarch billionaire involved with the club. I'd rather suffer the periods of mediocrity than sell out to cheating.

For me, those who look back fondly on the Romanov era are complicit in the fraud - much like buying knock off gear down the pub or buying clothes in shops that, deep down, you know were made in a third world sweat shop. EVERYONE knew Romanov was a criminal - particularly towards the end. Very few Hearts fans ever spoke out against him.
06-11-2018, 09:35 AM
grunt

Quote:

Originally Posted by FitzAlan

The net deficiency of assets per BDO's Statement of Liabilities in Administration lodged at Companies House 2 December 2013 was £43,684,551, which will include losses brought forward accumulated under previous regimes. The revised list of known creditors was finally confirmed as being £33,920,645.30 on 29 November 2015. The revised total was caused by Heriot Watt University having amended their claim, presumably for the full term of the lease agreement rather than merely the arrears.

Not sure if I'm reading this right. Are you suggesting that the £10m difference in the creditors was due to Heriot Watt amending their claim?
06-11-2018, 09:43 AM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

You do have to ask yourself, would you welcome a criminal gangster owner at Hibs who can provide you with a couple of Scottish cups and other victories if all it took was one year of pain in the Championship at the end? What would you remember? The 2 Scottish cups or the temporary blip of one year relegation?

Hibs have played it all by the book and we had to suffer 3 years out of the top league and many years of mediocrity. Maybe there's a naive culture difference between us and them whereby they use any means for success on and off the pitch. Hibs would never entertain the idea of vulgar long throws in to the box or a game plan totally dependent on launching balls up to big guys or aggressive play for a whole game. The thought of relying on external money over and above the normal income of a football club really isn't something we've ever done either. That's probably the big cultural difference in those years they have more success than us. Is it naive on our part?

It's not naive. I think there's a deliberate desire to steer away from the vlad type gangster who was welcomed at the pre administration wongadome.

They are happy to play Russian roulette with their club and it's reputation.

I'm just staggered at how little success that huge sum of money in Scottish football terms actually bought them. Definitely not worth the stigma they're left with.

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06-11-2018, 11:10 AM
Kato

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

I'm just staggered at how little success that huge sum of money in Scottish football terms actually bought them. Definitely not worth the stigma they're left with.

An Anti-Romanov jambo pal of mine had the theory that he stymied progress in Europe as the finances would come under more rigourous scrutiny from UEFA than from the SFA i.e. UEFA would actually do some scrutinising. He did pull the rug from under them at various times.
06-11-2018, 11:13 AM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kato

An Anti-Romanov jambo pal of mine had the theory that he stymied progress in Europe as the finances would come under more rigourous scrutiny from UEFA than from the SFA i.e. UEFA would actually do some scrutinising. He did pull the rug from under them at various times.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest as this would account for their failure to win the champions league by 2008 as promised.

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06-11-2018, 11:26 AM
The 90+2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

Didn't he do a share issue where certificates were never issued and suitcases full of cash made that last journey out the country with him?[emoji5]

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Oh aye, I have the mental picture of the monorail guy from the Simpson’s with his suitcase full now 😆😆
06-11-2018, 11:27 AM
The 90+2

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocteautwin

You do have to ask yourself, would you welcome a criminal gangster owner at Hibs who can provide you with a couple of Scottish cups and other victories if all it took was one year of pain in the Championship at the end? What would you remember? The 2 Scottish cups or the temporary blip of one year relegation?

Hibs have played it all by the book and we had to suffer 3 years out of the top league and many years of mediocrity. Maybe there's a naive culture difference between us and them whereby they use any means for success on and off the pitch. Hibs would never entertain the idea of vulgar long throws in to the box or a game plan totally dependent on launching balls up to big guys or aggressive play for a whole game. The thought of relying on external money over and above the normal income of a football club really isn't something we've ever done either. That's probably the big cultural difference in those years they have more success than us. Is it naive on our part?

I would if it meant we kept playing in Leith and not a rugby ground.
06-11-2018, 11:43 AM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90+2

Oh aye, I have the mental picture of the monorail guy from the Simpson’s with his suitcase full now [emoji38][emoji38]

[emoji5]

Was cash only in their megashop and at the ground for a while as well. Wonder where all that went?

Mugs.

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06-11-2018, 12:16 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kato

An Anti-Romanov jambo pal of mine had the theory that he stymied progress in Europe as the finances would come under more rigourous scrutiny from UEFA than from the SFA i.e. UEFA would actually do some scrutinising. He did pull the rug from under them at various times.

I'd doubt that tbh.

IMO, the Romanov model was all about throwing money at Hearts to get European exposure, and build the UKIOS brand on the back of that.

It was a model that almost worked, had it not been for those pesky kids at Celtic, and the Docksiders at the Unbeatable Derby [emoji38]

As far as keeping on the right side of UEFA goes, the various DfE swaps would have helped in that regard.

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06-11-2018, 12:20 PM
The 90+2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

[emoji5]

Was cash only in their megashop and at the ground for a while as well. Wonder where all that went?

Mugs.

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Didn’t Robbo cancel Xmas for his hearts suppprtong laddie too? While his hibee son got an xbox or something? :)

Cash payment only in that shop they had in st James also, funny that.
06-11-2018, 12:34 PM
FilipinoHibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan62

So pretty much just the Pieman’s debt and a wee bitty extra after all.

Pie man left Hearts 22 million in debt so Vlad added 50+ million. Why 30 mill was obviously a gross underestimate of Hearts debt given Vlads spending spree. Thanks to the more detailed analysis from other Hibees.
06-11-2018, 12:58 PM
Alan62

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingHibs

Pie man left Hearts 22 million in debt so Vlad added 50+ million. Why 30 mill was obviously a gross underestimate of Hearts debt given Vlads spending spree. Thanks to the more detailed analysis from other Hibees.

£50M? A mere trifle. Especially if you owe it to yourself.
06-11-2018, 04:36 PM
FitzAlan

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunt

Not sure if I'm reading this right. Are you suggesting that the £10m difference in the creditors was due to Heriot Watt amending their claim?

No, Heriot Watt's initial claim was for £140,653.48 and is included in list of known creditors lodged at Companies House on 15th August 2013 which totalled £28,424,336. This was increased to a claim for £5,125,528.00 in the revised list totalling £33,920,645.30 posted on 2nd December 2013. It accounts for 90% of the uplift. I am speculating that the difference is between arrears at the point of administration and the legal liability to pay rent for the the whole term of the lease which would have been over a number of years.

The difference between the known creditors of £33m and the £43m total deficiency in shareholders funds will include brought forward accumulated losses in prior years, offset by the value of assets.
06-11-2018, 05:32 PM
Hibs4185

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

It's not naive. I think there's a deliberate desire to steer away from the vlad type gangster who was welcomed at the pre administration wongadome.

They are happy to play Russian roulette with their club and it's reputation.

I'm just staggered at how little success that huge sum of money in Scottish football terms actually bought them. Definitely not worth the stigma they're left with.

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The yams weren’t happy to play Russian roulette with their club, it was their only option or they would’ve been at murrayfield with tynecastle being houses.

Romanov tried to buy a couple of clubs before the desperados but he was tuned down. I’m sure Dunfermline were approached by Romanov. The only club who were desperate enough were hearts.
06-11-2018, 05:35 PM
Bostonhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hibs4185

The yams weren’t happy to play Russian roulette with their club, it was their only option or they would’ve been at murrayfield with tynecastle being houses.

Romanov tried to buy a couple of clubs before the desperados but he was tuned down. I’m sure Dunfermline were approached by Romanov. The only club who were desperate enough were hearts.

I don't recall many hearts fans criticising him. The reverse. He was welcomed like a Messiah.

Plenty chat about their new found targets and about us no longer being rivals etc..I could go on[emoji6]

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