The Universe

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Originally Posted by Jack

Is the universe expanding in 2D, 3D or even 4 or beyond D?






Is D something beyond our limited dimensional thinking?




Are we a universe inside another universe inside a universe like a Russian doll?

Or is our universe a speck of dust floating in the air of a planet in a solar system in a universe.

Or ...

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The thing I love most about this subject is that the possibilities are almost endless.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

There is a theory known as the Big Crunch that says the universe will get to a certain point then briefly stall before contracting back to a singularly again. This is the theory that has always made most sense to me as it allows for a new universe to be born again and again. Apparently this isn't what will happen though, it's thought that the universe will just continue to expand and eventually it will run out of fuel to make more stars and the current stars will eventually die leaving only black holes, this is known as the big freeze.
Thats my understanding of what's going to happen, but obviously I have a limited understanding of these things:greengrin

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Its a spectacularly mind-blowing subject.

I don't see how the universe could contract back as that would require pressure from a force? Wouldn't it be more of a case instead simply becoming a dormant universe. A bit like releasing a gaseous substance in a concealed box where it expands but cannot escape and constantly remains within the sealed box?

glory glory

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Originally Posted by northstandhibby

Its a spectacularly mind-blowing subject.

I don't see how the universe could contract back as that would require pressure from a force? Wouldn't it be more of a case instead simply becoming a dormant universe. A bit like releasing a gaseous substance in a concealed box where it expands but cannot escape and constantly remains within the sealed box?

glory glory

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The force would be gravity. At the moment expansion and gravity are at a level where the universe expands at the current rate. If gravity was to be stronger we would have the universe contracting into a Big Crunch. If expansion was to be stronger we would have what known as a big rip, that would cause everything to come apart until eventually time and space would rip apart.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

The force would be gravity. At the moment expansion and gravity are at a level where the universe expands at the current rate. If gravity was to be stronger we would have the universe contracting into a Big Crunch. If expansion was to be stronger we would have what known as a big rip, that would cause everything to come apart until eventually time and space would rip apart.

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Would you mind explaining the differences between expansion and gravity?

Cheers

glory glory

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Originally Posted by northstandhibby

Would you mind explaining the differences between expansion and gravity?

Cheers

glory glory

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Gravity is a force that pulls things together, the more mass something has, the more gravitational attraction it will have. The sun has the most gravity in our solar system and that's why all the planets orbit it. It's only centrifugal force that stops us falling into it. Expansion is what causes the universe to expand and is basically the opposite of gravity. Nothing can travel quicker than the speed of light, but expansion causes space to expand quicker than the speed of light.
If the universe had more gravity than it currently has then it would have contracted into a Big Crunch before stars and planets had time to form. The same is true for expansion. The balance between the 2 forces are what gives us the current universe we have.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Gravity is a force that pulls things together, the more mass something has, the more gravitational attraction it will have. The sun has the most gravity in our solar system and that's why all the planets orbit it. It's only centrifugal force that stops us falling into it. Expansion is what causes the universe to expand and is basically the opposite of gravity. Nothing can travel quicker than the speed of light, but expansion causes space to expand quicker than the speed of light.
If the universe had more gravity than it currently has then it would have contracted into a Big Crunch before stars and planets had time to form. The same is true for expansion. The balance between the 2 forces are what gives us the current universe we have.

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That would roughly transpire as an elastic band type expansion then surely? Expanding outward until it snaps back due to alleged magnetic pull.

I would suggest expansion is not elasticated but would expand simply until there was no force left to propel and would simply remain dormant until the next big bang.

As you rightly say LB its all up for debate.

glory glory

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Originally Posted by northstandhibby

Its a spectacularly mind-blowing subject.

I don't see how the universe could contract back as that would require pressure from a force? Wouldn't it be more of a case instead simply becoming a dormant universe. A bit like releasing a gaseous substance in a concealed box where it expands but cannot escape and constantly remains within the sealed box?

glory glory

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I suspect it will eventually merge with other universes who are all vying for space inside one huge universe that in itself is just one of many huge universes inside a massive universe.................... See my GIF below for example.

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Originally Posted by northstandhibby

That would roughly transpire as an elastic band type expansion then surely? Expanding outward until it snaps back due to alleged magnetic pull.

I would suggest expansion is not elasticated but would expand simply until there was no force left to propel and would simply remain dormant until the next big bang.

As you rightly say LB its all up for debate.

glory glory

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Here's a pretty good article on the subject
http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/201...e-universe-end

Would black holes still exist in a frozen universe ?

After all the matter had eventually been sucked into a black hole then all the black holes have merged in to each other(if that happens) what will become of said black hole?

Is the universe a black hole?

I'm sure there is a black hole at the centre of every Galaxy .

Mon the holes

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Originally Posted by sleeping giant

Would black holes still exist in a frozen universe ?

After all the matter had eventually been sucked into a black hole then all the black holes have merged in to each other(if that happens) what will become of said black hole?

Is the universe a black hole?

I'm sure there is a black hole at the centre of every Galaxy .

Mon the holes

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All matter won't eventually be sucked into black holes. The supermassive black hole at the centre of galaxies is the reason that galaxies exist. All the stars orbit around it, this would continue to be the case when all the stars run out of fuel and die. Smaller black holes are stars that have gone supernova. If you were orbiting a massive star and it went supernova you would continue to orbit the black hole
(if you survive the explosion) as its mass wouldn't change. Black holes will eventually decay away after trillions of years. Some people believe that new universes are born from black holes crushing matter down to a singularly, then exploding in a Big Bang. This in theory could happen with our own universe, creating a new universe, destroying ours from within. There's a name for this theory, but it was a while ago I read it and I've forgotten what it was called.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

All matter won't eventually be sucked into black holes. The supermassive black hole at the centre of galaxies is the reason that galaxies exist. All the stars orbit around it, this would continue to be the case when all the stars run out of fuel and die. Smaller black holes are stars that have gone supernova. If you were orbiting a massive star and it went supernova you would continue to orbit the black hole
(if you survive the explosion) as its mass wouldn't change. Black holes will eventually decay away after trillions of years. Some people believe that new universes are born from black holes crushing matter down to a singularly, then exploding in a Big Bang. This in theory could happen with our own universe, creating a new universe, destroying ours from within. There's a name for this theory, but it was a while ago I read it and I've forgotten what it was called.

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That theory works for me .
Still doesn't answer where it all began though:greengrin

If that had happened , it would explain where the matter came from for our measurable Big Bang.

If you could look at a 3D black hole , would it be orb shaped ?

What would we see in a black hole if light could escape?

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I suspect it will eventually merge with other universes who are all vying for space inside one huge universe that in itself is just one of many huge universes inside a massive universe.................... See my GIF below for example.

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Cracking eggs into a frying pan around the same time would be a very simplistic yet true analogy of that idea. The outermost edges of the albumen will converge and mix together however the vast majority of the main body of the egg is far denser and remains relatively still. Much like the outermost parts of the atmospheres will merge together but with a thin sparse density by that time and shouldn't be able to spring back in in on itself unless of course a competing denser force emerges from outwith to invade our universes galaxies atmospheres etc upsetting our stability. However ours seems to have been around for billions of our years so far.

Its a theory

:aok:

glory glory

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Originally Posted by sleeping giant

If you could look at a 3D black hole , would it be orb shaped ?

What would we see in a black hole if light could escape?

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I've always imagined them to be cone shaped with the matter gradually being crushed smaller and smaller. I suppose there's no way of knowing what we'd find inside a black hole as the laws of physics as we know them break down. I've watched a few documentaries on it and they're always quite interesting.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

I've always imagined them to be cone shaped with the matter gradually being crushed smaller and smaller. I suppose there's no way of knowing what we'd find inside a black hole as the laws of physics as we know them break down. I've watched a few documentaries on it and they're always quite interesting.

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Interesting choice of words as digestion consists of breaking down matter until its pureed/liquidised with the main mechanisms for human digestion process being enzymes. The Universe eating itself - I've heard worse theories.

glory glory

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Originally Posted by northstandhibby

Interesting choice of words as digestion consists of breaking down matter until its pureed/liquidised with the main mechanisms for human digestion process being enzymes. The Universe eating itself - I've heard worse theories.

glory glory

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Another way of looking at it is that the end point of all black holes is in one point in space. As the the black holes devour more and more matter it all ends up in the same place, and eventually it explodes into another universe. It's almost certainly not true, but it's another theory.:greengrin

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Another way of looking at it is that the end point of all black holes is in one point in space. As the the black holes devour more and more matter it all ends up in the same place, and eventually it explodes into another universe. It's almost certainly not true, but it's another theory.:greengrin

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It actually makes more sense than some theories out there as what happens when the black hole is filled with all of the gaseous elements and is stuffed full - one big atomic pump/dump that escapes through a rip elsewhere in the black hole forming another gaseous universe/galaxy?

glory glory

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Another way of looking at it is that the end point of all black holes is in one point in space. As the the black holes devour more and more matter it all ends up in the same place, and eventually it explodes into another universe. It's almost certainly not true, but it's another theory.:greengrin

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Kinda like black holes being the reproductive organs of universes. :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by northstandhibby

Cracking eggs into a frying pan around the same time would be a very simplistic yet true analogy of that idea. The outermost edges of the albumen will converge and mix together however the vast majority of the main body of the egg is far denser and remains relatively still. Much like the outermost parts of the atmospheres will merge together but with a thin sparse density by that time and shouldn't be able to spring back in in on itself unless of course a competing denser force emerges from outwith to invade our universes galaxies atmospheres etc upsetting our stability. However ours seems to have been around for billions of our years so far.

Its a theory

:aok:

glory glory

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I also like the idea that the rules of physics might only apply to our universe and other universes might have their own laws.

Head spinning stuff. I still can't get my idea around how the first atom was formed from nothing?

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Kinda like black holes being the reproductive organs of universes. :hmmm:

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:agree:There are a lot of people who believe the universe is a living being.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

:agree:There are a lot of people who believe the universe is a living being.

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I've speculated on that theory too and didn't discount it. Why not indeed, It's a possibility we could be micro organisms/enzymes inhabiting an internal part of a much larger organism/s of whatever shape or type.

glory glory

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I also like the idea that the rules of physics might only apply to our universe and other universes might have their own laws.

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Each universe might have a unique distinct role to play with its own laws indeed as part of a functioning larger organic set of laws. However I would expect some form of replication further down the line whatever the bigger picture is, based on reproduction as per dna replication possibly?

glory glory

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39642992

This theory is mind blowing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat...f_the_universe

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

This theory is mind blowing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat...f_the_universe

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That theory is also known as the big freeze, which I mentioned earlier in the thread. That is obviously a much more in depth explanation than I could possibly manage :greengrin

I just bought a new Galaxy

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

The force would be gravity. At the moment expansion and gravity are at a level where the universe expands at the current rate. If gravity was to be stronger we would have the universe contracting into a Big Crunch. If expansion was to be stronger we would have what known as a big rip, that would cause everything to come apart until eventually time and space would rip apart.

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I was reading a little bit here and there and of a theory that makes some sense of an infinite expansion causing the universe to become so dense it would crush objects to smithereens.

I thought of an analogy consisting of a very fizzy bottle of coca cola, shaking it very hard and then opening it (big bang). Once the gas and energy has disappeared from it you're left with a dead liquid.

Our universe is a bit like a fizzy bottle of coke full of gaseous compounds and atomic energy. Maybe the experts are surmising a dead universe devoid of the gas and atomic energy that's ever so very slowly being lost and expanding into the outer fields which is absorbing our gas and energy whereby our universe ultimately ends up like a dead dense bottle of coca cola.

its a theory?

glory glory

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Apparently if it does go supernova it will be enough to make it light at night time.

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Can I go back to this point?

What would the likely impact of this be, if there was no night time?

Would we just get blacked out curtains to carry on with our circadian rhythms?

Would there be much of an impact on plants, photosynthesis (I know, they need light, but work with me here)etc and their ability to take CO2 and turn it into oxygen (which we then turn back into CO2 via respiration)?

I might not sleep tonight.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Can I go back to this point?

What would the likely impact of this be, if there was no night time?

Would we just get blacked out curtains to carry on with our circadian rhythms?

Would there be much of an impact on plants, photosynthesis (I know, they need light, but work with me here)etc and their ability to take CO2 and turn it into oxygen (which we then turn back into CO2 via respiration)?

I might not sleep tonight.

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It wouldn't be like full daylight, it would just be lighter than normal in the evening. It wouldn't make enough of a difference to upset any of our natural rhythms.