John Collins

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Originally Posted by sambajustice

The style of football he wanted us to play, you cant just get seasoned pro's to start doing it if they've never played like that before in their life, its something that they have to be brought up to do from a young age.

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This is what Hughues is doing now, trying to get the likes of Hogg, Rankin and Nish playing as if they
are Puyol, Innestia and Torres. The slow passing game from the back does not suit the players we have,
I can see it, everyone else can see it so how come Hughes cannot?

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Originally Posted by Fergus

how did he fail there? he kept them up and left at the end of the season after it looked like they were going down.

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I didn't say he failed:greengrin I said he wasn't a success:wink:

He didn't really achieve much at Charleroi, it might not have been an abject failure but he very little of note when he was manager.

Colins had but a fraction of the cash made available to Yogi or Mixu. So you have to look at what he was allowed to spend, to what type of player we actually got. IMHO JC would have this squad playing much better than Yogi does.

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Originally Posted by CallumLaidlaw

JC seemed to get his tactics right, and knew what he wanted from his players, BUT, he didnt seem to have an eye for a player. It seems to be that if we could have Mixu/Yogi as the player spotter, and JC as the coach/tactician, we would be on to a winner :wink:

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JC would argue the point that he didn't have an eye for a player. The reason he gave for leaving is that RP never signed his first or second choice players and he was often left with his 3rd, 4th and even 5th choice recruits. RP apparently gets his managers to list his preferences for a position in order 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc.

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Originally Posted by Sandy

Whilst I can see where you are coming from all I can say is 'CIS Cup' :rolleyes:

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Yes, very good, but I already covered that.

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Originally Posted by sambajustice

Thought JC was a pretty crap manager for us.

He totally has the right footballing ideas though, I reckon he'd make a superb Youth Coach, instilling the proper mentality into the young players regarding diet, behaviour and also how to play football by being comfortable on the ball.

The style of football he wanted us to play, you cant just get seasoned pro's to start doing it if they've never played like that before in their life, its something that they have to be brought up to do from a young age. I remember listening to JC on the tv, he was saying in Scotland we have to change our mentality, get young players comfortable on the ball, get them knocking it about etc. I would seriously consider putting JC in charge of Youth operations at ER, i know that probably wouldnt happen but the SFA could do worse than get him on board!

Still a crap manager tho!

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On the money with all of that... :agree:

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Originally Posted by erskine-hibby

Colins had but a fraction of the cash made available to Yogi or Mixu. So you have to look at what he was allowed to spend, to what type of player we actually got. IMHO JC would have this squad playing much better than Yogi does.

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Hardly.

£200-250k *EACH* for Maka and Alan O'Brien...

Credit where its due - he brought in some absolute huddies!

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Originally Posted by ahibby

JC would argue the point that he didn't have an eye for a player. The reason he gave for leaving is that RP never signed his first or second choice players and he was often left with his 3rd, 4th and even 5th choice recruits. RP apparently gets his managers to list his preferences for a position in order 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc.

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Collins' 1st chocie signings were players like Robson and Naismith who moved for big fees and wages to the OF. He was mad to expect Hibs to pay that sort of money for players.

Managers have to work within the budget they are given, JC couldn't do this and signed some really poor players.

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Originally Posted by ahibby

JC would argue the point that he didn't have an eye for a player. The reason he gave for leaving is that RP never signed his first or second choice players and he was often left with his 3rd, 4th and even 5th choice recruits. RP apparently gets his managers to list his preferences for a position in order 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc.

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When he sign Therrie Gattusi, that was the only name he presented to Rod. Out of all the players in our price range he came up with HKF.

I can't believe how selective some folks memories are! Collins won the Cup, but his overall record was poor and his signings were shocking.

He might still do a decent job for someone in the future, but he made too many mistakes with us - frankly nobody should walk into the Hibs job without having at least done a couple of years managing a smaller club or coaching at a bigger club.

It didn't help that he employed Tommy Craig, who had a shocking reocrd before he came to Hibs but Collins seemed to be oblivious to this.

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Originally Posted by johnbc70

This is what Hughues is doing now, trying to get the likes of Hogg, Rankin and Nish playing as if they
are Puyol, Innestia and Torres. The slow passing game from the back does not suit the players we have,
I can see it, everyone else can see it so how come Hughes cannot?

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Even if Hughes CAN see it, he has insisted on several occasions that he wont change his principles, whetever they are (to pass until you lose the ball?)

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Originally Posted by Hibs On Tour

Hardly.

£200-250k *EACH* for Maka and Alan O'Brien...

Credit where its due - he brought in some absolute huddies!

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As a proportion of the money brought in through player sales under JC's tenure, this was but a tiny fraction. So I don't think he got a fair crack at the whip in that regard.

However, when you see the players he actually spent money on ..... :bitchy:

... and many of the free transfers he recruited as well .... :bitchy:

... spotting a player was clearly not his forte (nor Tommy Craig's for that matter).

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Originally Posted by sesoim

I can't believe how selective some folks memories are! Collins won the Cup, but his overall record was poor and his signings were shocking.

He might still do a decent job for someone in the future, but he made too many mistakes with us - frankly nobody should walk into the Hibs job without having at least done a couple of years managing a smaller club or coaching at a bigger club.

It didn't help that he employed Tommy Craig, who had a shocking reocrd before he came to Hibs but Collins seemed to be oblivious to this.

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A good summary. I would add that his man-management skills were deficient, if there is any truth in the stories about player revolts. The key to JC's future will be whether he's learned from his mistakes at Hibs. Most people get better at jobs with experience (those who don't are the ones who're too stupid to develop). He showed traits which indicate to me that he could become very successful. IMO he was appointed as Hibs manager too early in his career.

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Originally Posted by Green Mikey

I didn't say he failed:greengrin I said he wasn't a success:wink:

He didn't really achieve much at Charleroi, it might not have been an abject failure but he very little of note when he was manager.

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He was signed to keep them up - which he did. That's all I was saying: he did what he was asked to do = success. Collins took them from the threat of relegation to 12th out of 18.

Tommy Craig took over as manager half-way through the next season (Nov/Dec 2009) but was sacked after losing 14 and drawing 3 of his 19 league games!

How much of the "Collins era" at Hibs is attributable to Tommy Craig?!

like many its collins poor record in the transfer market that means i wouldnt like to see him back unless he was working with somebody else. i actually think that if he and hughes we working together you could have a decent good cop bad cop style management team, one to dish out the criticism and one to be their buddy when needed, collins in charge of fitness etc, hughes has the eye for a player and talks a good game to get them to the club. collins could do an excellent role in our youth academy but i fear he would deem that as a role beneath his abilities

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Originally Posted by ian cruise

like many its collins poor record in the transfer market that means i wouldnt like to see him back unless he was working with somebody else. i actually think that if he and hughes we working together you could have a decent good cop bad cop style management team, one to dish out the criticism and one to be their buddy when needed, collins in charge of fitness etc, hughes has the eye for a player and talks a good game to get them to the club. collins could do an excellent role in our youth academy but i fear he would deem that as a role beneath his abilities

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No he wouldn't, as he is already mentoring young players in this project.

http://www.allmediascotland.com/medi...ng-footballers

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Originally Posted by ian cruise

like many its collins poor record in the transfer market that means i wouldnt like to see him back unless he was working with somebody else. i actually think that if he and hughes we working together you could have a decent good cop bad cop style management team, one to dish out the criticism and one to be their buddy when needed, collins in charge of fitness etc, hughes has the eye for a player and talks a good game to get them to the club. collins could do an excellent role in our youth academy but i fear he would deem that as a role beneath his abilities

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Totally agree. Collins would make for an excellent coach or head of youth academy although I doubt very much he'd consider a position like this at club level for one second.

Just keep him away from the cheque book!

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Originally Posted by BEEJ

As a proportion of the money brought in through player sales under JC's tenure, this was but a tiny fraction. So I don't think he got a fair crack at the whip in that regard.

However, when you see the players he actually spent money on ..... :bitchy:

... and many of the free transfers he recruited as well .... :bitchy:

... spotting a player was clearly not his forte (nor Tommy Craig's for that matter).

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Can't really argue with that, though it must also be noted that he was unlucky enough to preside over the dismantling of what was left of a, IMHO, great team with little to replace them with.

As said above, he bought *****. Utter dross in fact.

You don't need to compare the money he had to spend with Hughes or Mixu. Compare it with Mowbray.

Mowbray signed a few rips but all in all, he did well on a tighter budget.

Collins: -

An eye for a player - Scratch

Man management - Scratch

The bottle to follow a job through - Scratch

The ability to talk a good game without following it through with actions - Tick.

No thanks.

Hmmm....I hear all this ***** about what Mowbray "would have" done.....he had long enough to do it with more cash did he no? He won nothing. His teams would not have got past aberdeen.

Tony didny need to deal with backstabbing players and transfer requests either....and he still won **** all. Jc did tho!

Id take collins over hughes and id take him over mowbray anaw.

Yes he was ***** at signing players. IIRC tony (he who turned his back on the fans and done that ****ing celtc huddle) also signed zibby long term....and played konte ahead of deek! Brilliant!

JC won the cup and had hibs fitter with more balls than anyone else in years. Fact. He did have a big ego but he did know the score and moreover, loved/LOVES the hibs.

ENDOF

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Originally Posted by rainman

As said above, he bought *****. Utter dross in fact.

You don't need to compare the money he had to spend with Hughes or Mixu. Compare it with Mowbray.

Mowbray signed a few rips but all in all, he did well on a tighter budget.

Collins: -

An eye for a player - Scratch

Man management - Scratch

The bottle to follow a job through - Scratch

The ability to talk a good game without following it through with actions - Tick.

No thanks.

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Compare with Mowbray? Ok.

Trophies: Mowbray 0 - Collins 1.