Hibs need a formal system for releasing unused season tickets

I think the £25 season ticket is a great idea when supply exceeds demand. Even if a kid only goes to four games a season that's fine by me - maybe they'll go to six next season, a dozen the season after that and become full paying adult season ticket holders in due course.

However now that we're at the stage of selling out big matches I think it's time for a rethink of pricing structure. I'd make it £25 for Cat B games only, and if you want Cat A games included you pay full kids price for it (think that's about £75?). That way it's accessible for parents who want to ease their kids in gently, and it's still great value at around £4 a game for kids who want to go to every game. It means people are making a conscious choice up front on whether they'll take kids to hearts / Rangers / Celtic matches so should be fewer empty seats too.

The issue is not entirely isolated to the pricing of kids season tickets, there are lots of adult season tickets bought purely to ‘support’ the club and only a handful of matches are attended... when this is the case I find it difficult to grasp why some of these ‘supporter’ feel they should be rewarded for their non attendance when asked to donate their seat back for the sell out games.

I’ll miss the derby, it will be my fourth game I’ve missed due to illness, family and work commitments. But I’ll still renew as I like sitting with my mates and giving Hibs my contribution. For sell out matches Hibs should have a simple system for releasing your seat. Whether you should get credit for doing that I’m not sure. But one thing we all like to see the stadium full

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Why should non attendance be rewarded??? A season ticket is supposed to be a commitment to attend every match, otherwise pay at the gate and take your chances!!

Why are so many failing to see that ‘donating’ your unused ST seat back to the club benefits the club and no one else....! That should be inventive enough!! Showing a little extra SUPPORT for your club!!

Why else do you bother attending games other than to support Hibs, both in spirit and financially!!

You can be a fan of a club and never buy a single match ticket or pieces of merchandise... or you can be a supporter and do as much as you can to support the club!

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No-one is failing to see anything.

Currently loads of people, for various reasons, do not release their unused seats, regardless of what you think should be their moral duty.

If you want that situation to continue, fine, then the club should do nothing.

I want more folk to release their seats. Offering a small financial incentive will help achieve that.

It may also encourage more people to buy season tickets in the first place.

Why are you failing to see the logic in that?

Hibs have spent the season ticket money. Where are the refunds coming from? No point taking them from seat sales per game otherwise you're as well giving seats away.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Hibs have spent the season ticket money. Where are the refunds coming from? No point taking them from seat sales per game otherwise you're as well giving seats away.

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Hibs aren't in any position to be turning their noses up at extra cash, regardless of the amount. Why else do they sell all the cheap stuff in the shop, some of which can only net them a few pence?

I'd offer a small discount towards next year's ST assuming the ticket is resold. £4 maybe.

Adult Cat A tickets cost £28. They've previously sold kids tickets for about £1 per game. Any additional income is a result.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Hibs have spent the season ticket money. Where are the refunds coming from? No point taking them from seat sales per game otherwise you're as well giving seats away.

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If Hibs resell a ticket for £20 and have to give back the original purchaser £5 for the privilege they will increase revenue. Whether they have spent the original season ticket money or not is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

No-one is failing to see anything.

Currently loads of people, for various reasons, do not release their unused seats, regardless of what you think should be their moral duty.

If you want that situation to continue, fine, then the club should do nothing.

I want more folk to release their seats. Offering a small financial incentive will help achieve that.

It may also encourage more people to buy season tickets in the first place.

Why are you failing to see the logic in that?

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It’s absolutely nothing to do with morals!! It’s to do with SUPPORTING your club... there is a huge difference between supporting and being a fan.

I’m not sure this debate is as subjective as what many are making out.

And still nobody on the opposing view from my own has answered the question, to what benefit is it to you to not release your unused seat for no recompense??

If someone can justify why one deserves a reward for donating your unused seat back to the club for big games then I will put my hands up and listen to your point.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

If Hibs resell a ticket for £20 and have to give back the original purchaser £5 for the privilege they will increase revenue. Whether they have spent the original season ticket money or not is irrelevant.

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Do away season ticket holders get a refund when they cannot make a game? I dont think so. So why should that differ for home season tickets? If there was a way to donate your ticket back to the club easily then it should be seen as a donation, cos at that point you have already paid your fee and it’s down to you to fulfill your end of you season ticket purchase, if the club then resell your seat then you are not out of pocket and the club reap the rewards!

Isn’t this what all supporters should want for their club?

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Do away season ticket holders get a refund when they cannot make a game? I dont think so. So why should that differ for home season tickets? If there was a way to donate your ticket back to the club easily then it should be seen as a donation, cos at that point you have already paid your fee and it’s down to you to fulfill your end of you season ticket purchase, if the club then resell your seat then you are not out of pocket and the club reap the rewards!

Isn’t this what all supporters should want for their club?

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You're asking why the away season ticket should differ from the home season ticket in terms of a revenue redistribution system?

Surely anyone with half a brain can figure out the difference id have thought.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

It’s absolutely nothing to do with morals!! It’s to do with SUPPORTING your club... there is a huge difference between supporting and being a fan.

I’m not sure this debate is as subjective as what many are making out.

And still nobody on the opposing view from my own has answered the question, to what benefit is it to you to not release your unused seat for no recompense??

If someone can justify why one deserves a reward for donating your unused seat back to the club for big games then I will put my hands up and listen to your point.

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There is no reason I can think of, but no matter how much you preach about supporting the club, the reality is that loads of folk don't bother contacting the club to release their seats, which is why we can sell out but not have a full stadium.

Even a small incentive for releasing seats would encourage bigger actual attendances, leading to a better atmosphere for everyone, and more money for Hibs.

Your determination to prevent anyone benefitting, even slightly, from releasing their seat would ensure none of that happened.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Hibs have asked for people to release their seats for the Hearts game if they're not going to be used.

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Yeah thats not a system , it's just a request which is enough as we don't sell out many games

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Why should non attendance be rewarded??? A season ticket is supposed to be a commitment to attend every match, otherwise pay at the gate and take your chances!!

Why are so many failing to see that ‘donating’ your unused ST seat back to the club benefits the club and no one else....! That should be inventive enough!! Showing a little extra SUPPORT for your club!!

Why else do you bother attending games other than to support Hibs, both in spirit and financially!!

You can be a fan of a club and never buy a single match ticket or pieces of merchandise... or you can be a supporter and do as much as you can to support the club!

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Many overseas Hibby's have a ST, we don't attend every game- so don't you want them buying one anymore then?

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Originally Posted by Swedish hibee

Many overseas Hibby's have a ST, we don't attend every game- so don't you want them buying one anymore then?

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I an earlier post I have said exactly the opposite of this, I understand that many overseas supporters buy tickets and make only handful of games. But if that seat then sits empty most of the season would they want it filled and helping the club to profit.

I don’t think incentive is the issue, I think it’s clarity and ease of use in how to donate your seat back to the club that’s the issue.

Most folk won’t know that they can do so.

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Originally Posted by CMurdoch

Cheap kids tickets should stay cheap but should not be valid for games against Hearts, Celtic or Rangers
Alternatively the adult would have to email the club no more than a week before matches against the above 3 clubs if the kid is going to attend the match otherwise the club will release the kids ticket for purchase.

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Good idea but would it not be better to make the cheap tickets cat b only with the holder getting first choice on cat a games

Entry to Easter Road is nowadays computerised. Swiping your barcode records your entry which makes it easy to see the STs that haven’t attended that game.

It’s simple to work out if there are seats that regularly remain empty for sold out games. Hibs could then take the opportunity to get a specific message out to those who bought these STs explaining how easy it is to release any seats that will be unused for the benefit of other Hibs fans and the club we all support.

We could even give the option to donate that seat to a member of the community not able to afford a ticket - registered unemployed? Main thing is that we fill the stadium with Hibees supporting the team!

That still doesn’t address the point that I don’t want some drunk Beggbie type character sitting in my seat annoying the folk I usually go with.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Clash

Entry to Easter Road is nowadays computerised. Swiping your barcode records your entry which makes it easy to see the STs that haven’t attended that game.

It’s simple to work out if there are seats that regularly remain empty for sold out games. Hibs could then take the opportunity to get a specific message out to those who bought these STs explaining how easy it is to release any seats that will be unused for the benefit of other Hibs fans and the club we all support.

We could even give the option to donate that seat to a member of the community not able to afford a ticket - registered unemployed? Main thing is that we fill the stadium with Hibees supporting the team!

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This is a very sensible solution, with a good cause at its heart... at the end of the day we want a full stadium and the club to do well. Any ideas around fans being reimbursed for donating their tickets for resell or like this poster suggest, for those less fortunate, need to be muted.

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

That still doesn’t address the point that I don’t want some drunk Beggbie type character sitting in my seat annoying the folk I usually go with.

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I understand that concern.

The reality is that it's very unlikely that such a scenario would materialise. Most folk are perfectly reasonable when they're at the match, particularly as everyone is on the database. There are stewards and police to deal with the tiny number who aren't.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Hibs don't think it's pointless. They've asked people to release their seats.

It's also not pointless for the fans who get to see the game.

Have you ever said or thought "I can't be arsed" about doing something simple? Have you ever forgotten to do something?

I'm sorry, I can't be arsed helping you understand the effect of practical incentive on motivation any better than that.

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What I meant was pointless is if it is incentivised. Hibs obviously want you to release seats now as it is financially beneficial to the club, but if they had to pay out a portion of that on both a formal system and an incentive then the profit margin is decreased massively and IMO would be pointless.

The way it is now I’m all for, getting as many through he gate as possible and gets as much cash as possible into the club.

Who cares about formal systems or money back.....just think - we are now at a place where we sell out home games! Can you imagine that....it's ****ing magic ! [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Lix

Tottenham allow you to re-list when a match is nearing sold out or sold out.
If said seat is resold then I get 1/19th of ST cost, as cash or credit against next ST.
I think this is very fair. Clubs can't expect us, plead in our case, folk to buy ST's then expect us to give them back for nowt when not attending.
I've done it twice this season at Spurs, obviously a 90k stadium doesn't allow me many opportunities to resell, but next season I expect I will be able to relist every game if I wanted to.

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Manchester City do the same except that it only counts as credit against renewal and only if the ticket is resold. They also restrict the number of tickets that can be resold in a season (six?).

This works well for the club as a ticket for Liverpool, Arsenal, Man United, Spurs, etc. will sell for top prices (circa £60) when the ticket holder may only receive £17-£30 or so. Tickets for less popular or midweek matches are less likely to sell.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

A season ticket is supposed to be a commitment to attend every match,

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Er, no it isn't. There is ZERO commitment to attend any match, never mind every.

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Originally Posted by midfield_maestro

Er, no it isn't. There is ZERO commitment to attend any match, never mind every.

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While the actual definition of a season ticket isn’t to ‘commit’ to attend every match, in football it’s in spirit a commitment to attend, as you are paying to guarantee your seat for every home match at a discounted price (from purchasing every ticket individually).

While I understand your need to post this point, I don’t see how it furthers the discussion?

It actually raises debate surrounding the purchasing of ST with NO intention to attend in some of the more desirable areas/seats... but let’s not open that can of worms right now.

Someone on Facebook has advertised 4 season tickets which will be unused on Saturday.

He knows that they can be released back to the club, but he wants cash for them. If they're not sold by Friday pm, he's going to contact the club. No doubt at that late stage, those seats will remain empty.

Given that there are still seats available in the South Stand, no-one who wants to go to the match should miss out, but for our Cat A games, when the south isn't available, it makes sense, on various levels, to have a formal system in place to encourage the release of unused tickets.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

While the actual definition of a season ticket isn’t to ‘commit’ to attend every match, in football it’s in spirit a commitment to attend, as you are paying to guarantee your seat for every home match at a discounted price (from purchasing every ticket individually).

While I understand your need to post this point, I don’t see how it furthers the discussion?

It actually raises debate surrounding the purchasing of ST with NO intention to attend in some of the more desirable areas/seats... but let’s not open that can of worms right now.

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My season ticket is well used but at the same time I will opt out of a couple of the televised games (I hate the Sunday midday kick offs.) So in a way my purchase is a DONATION to Club funds. On the occasions I don't attend I first of all offer my seat to friends and if I still can't give it a way then I advise the Club to make it available for resale.

Seems fair enough for me, I'm not expecting anything in return.

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Originally Posted by scott_b_

Either that or cancel your season ticket if you don't make it to X amount of games, or the price increases or something? All for cheap tickets if people use them, but if our crowds continue you could have a situation were adults willing to pay £300+ per season are struggling for decent seats because there are stacks of unused 25 quid kids season tickets.... The huns at home was a near sellout I think and it was half empty, as it is most games.

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There will be a central computer connected to all the turnstiles and the log on the PC will show if a card has or hasn't been swiped in,so they could find out the ones who just buy the kids tickets to get upgraded for their mates for the big games

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Originally Posted by Golden Bear

My season ticket is well used but at the same time I will opt out of a couple of the televised games (I hate the Sunday midday kick offs.) So in a way my purchase is a DONATION to Club funds. On the occasions I don't attend I first of all offer my seat to friends and if I still can't give it a way then I advise the Club to make it available for resale.

Seems fair enough for me, I'm not expecting anything in return.

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This is exactly how it should be. Well done.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Someone on Facebook has advertised 4 season tickets which will be unused on Saturday.

He knows that they can be released back to the club, but he wants cash for them. If they're not sold by Friday pm, he's going to contact the club. No doubt at that late stage, those seats will remain empty.

Given that there are still seats available in the South Stand, no-one who wants to go to the match should miss out, but for our Cat A games, when the south isn't available, it makes sense, on various levels, to have a formal system in place to encourage the release of unused tickets.

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They should be careful.

Against the T&C of having a season ticket.

Don't think the club care about handing it on to a fellow supporter but openly selling it is something that they would frown upon.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

This is exactly how it should be. Well done.

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Indeed.

People should obey speed limits, but they still need cameras and traffic calming measures to encourage people to comply.

Completely incorrect comparison.

Not donating your ST when you cannot attend is nothing like breaking the speed limit in any way!! Speed cameras and traffic calming measures are not a system put in place to aid drivers to comply with the rules they are ways to force drivers to obey the law... one as a deterrent the other as a physical way to slow drivers down forcing their compliance!

What you are saying by comparison is that ST holders should be monitored and punished for non attendance, and somehow the club needs to force holders to attend once purchased!!

At the end of the day it is to you to use your ST as you want, within the rules of the club (so selling it on is a no no, and is effectively stealing for the club you are supposed to love and support!)

In my opinion this is how I think a ST should work:-

Once purchased if you cannot attend then pass it on to a friend/relative/acquaintance for no charge or donate your seat back to the club so they may make a little more money from selling it for those particular matches.

This benefits the club and you are not out of pocket, so where is the harm? Your incentive should be the knowledge you are doing as much as you can to support Hibs, whether it be from attending and getting behind the team or by allowing the club to financially benefit and equally allow another to physically get behind the team on the terraces.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Completely incorrect comparison.

Not donating your ST when you cannot attend is nothing like breaking the speed limit in any way!! Speed cameras and traffic calming measures are not a system put in place to aid drivers to comply with the rules they are ways to force drivers to obey the law... one as a deterrent the other as a physical way to slow drivers down forcing their compliance!

What you are saying by comparison is that ST holders should be monitored and punished for non attendance, and somehow the club needs to force holders to attend once purchased!!

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If that's how you want to interpret that, youre being deliberately obtuse. If not, I'm not surprised that you don't understand the concept of incentive.

No matter how much you would like people to release their seats, there will be dozens of empty seats on Saturday. That will be the case for the Hearts game too, and it will continue.

Your position is that, unless they are released voluntarily, you'd prefer them to stay empty rather than offer a small incentive to encourage them to be released.

I'd rather they were full, with Hibs receiving some extra income. Just like what happens with all the EPL clubs already mentioned on this thread.

In any case, little or nothing will happen regarding this so we can all continue to be disappointed with all the empty seats.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

At the end of the day it is to you to use your ST as you want, within the rules of the club (so selling it on is a no no, and is effectively stealing for the club you are supposed to love and support!)

In my opinion this is how I think a ST should work:-

Once purchased if you cannot attend then pass it on to a friend/relative/acquaintance for no charge or donate your seat back to the club so they may make a little more money from selling it for those particular matches.

This benefits the club and you are not out of pocket, so where is the harm? Your incentive should be the knowledge you are doing as much as you can to support Hibs, whether it be from attending and getting behind the team or by allowing the club to financially benefit and equally allow another to physically get behind the team on the terraces.

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That would be nice.

I wonder why it doesn't happen enough and what we could do about it.

I'll have plenty time to ponder a solution as I'm setting off now on my journey up to Edinburgh for the weekend.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

If that's how you want to interpret that, youre being deliberately obtuse. If not, I'm not surprised that you don't understand the concept of incentive.

No matter how much you would like people to release their seats, there will be dozens of empty seats on Saturday. That will be the case for the Hearts game too, and it will continue.

Your position is that, unless they are released voluntarily, you'd prefer them to stay empty rather than offer a small incentive to encourage them to be released.

I'd rather they were full, with Hibs receiving some extra income. Just like what happens with all the EPL clubs already mentioned on this thread.

In any case, little or nothing will happen regarding this so we can all continue to be disappointed with all the empty seats.

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My position is not that I would rather they were empty, my position is that perhaps if there were a free and easy way to release STs that all holders were aware of then no incentive would be needed! Any mention of empty seats from me has been to say that I’d rather they were empty than the fans profiting over the club (which I find to be counterproductive).

I fully understand the use of an incentive but I dont think it’s needed in this situation... I think if everyone knew the process they would be more than happy to donate their tickets when they cannot attend... the love for our club is great and our fans are passionate about us doing well, and i am sure they understand that finances are big part of that.

You and I seem to be arguing the same point, only with differing views on how to achieve it...

I would worry that giving an incentive before making the process free, easy and clear would only cloud this debate.

If Hibs were to try and organise ST seat donations for those unable to attend and it didn’t take off then I would be open to look at incentives to push folk in the right direction (I would definitely start with store discounts over ST discounts or partial refunds, this is dude to the fact that many may then spend more at the club that they may not have spent).

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

That would be nice.

I wonder why it doesn't happen enough and what we could do about it.

I'll have plenty time to ponder a solution as I'm setting off now on my journey up to Edinburgh for the weekend.

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The reason it doesn’t work that way is down to fans not knowing how to do it.

Perhaps some sort of social media campaign could be arranged to inform people or an email sent round current ST holders... it is a difficult one as trying to make people aware without costing the club money is the real problem that needs solved here.

Unfortunately in some cases one has to speculate to accumulate, so it mate be that some funds are needed to be spent on creating a solution that in future the club will benefit and profit from.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

The reason it doesn’t work that way is down to fans not knowing how to do it.

Perhaps some sort of social media campaign could be arranged to inform people or an email sent round current ST holders... it is a difficult one as trying to make people aware without costing the club money is the real problem that needs solved here.

Unfortunately in some cases one has to speculate to accumulate, so it mate be that some funds are needed to be spent on creating a solution that in future the club will benefit and profit from.

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The club did include reference to this in their social media posts and website for Aberdeen game, advising people that they can email ticket office to release seats. I've not seen them do that before, so maybe it'll make a big difference and we won't need any complicated solutions.

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Originally Posted by Rocky

The club did include reference to this in their social media posts and website for Aberdeen game, advising people that they can email ticket office to release seats. I've not seen them do that before, so maybe it'll make a big difference and we won't need any complicated solutions.

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I did notice this too, it’s the first example of them directly asking fans to consider it so hopefully it makes a difference.

Is it just the child seats that are empty or child and adult seats?
If its just the childs seats then maybe the parents think its too much hassle to contact the club to resell, they only paid a couple of quid for the childs ticket after all?

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Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass

Is it just the child seats that are empty or child and adult seats?
If its just the childs seats then maybe the parents think its too much hassle to contact the club to resell, they only paid a couple of quid for the childs ticket after all?

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I think it’s a mixture, but looking at the Famous Five stand, I would estimate that the majority are children’s STs

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Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass

Is it just the child seats that are empty or child and adult seats?
If its just the childs seats then maybe the parents think its too much hassle to contact the club to resell, they only paid a couple of quid for the childs ticket after all?

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Speaking for my season tickets, if I didn’t take my children, I paid the difference to upgrade the seats to adult tickets for friends or family for midweek games. I’m fairly savvy with Hibs being an out of towner I’m often in touch with ticket office one way or another. I also wasn’t in FF lower, so it was more of a financial waste to not have attending kids with me.

Club shouldn't resell season seats if money goes back to holder unless every single available home fan seat is sold otherwise we deprive the club of money

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

The reason it doesn’t work that way is down to fans not knowing how to do it.

Perhaps some sort of social media campaign could be arranged to inform people or an email sent round current ST holders... it is a difficult one as trying to make people aware without costing the club money is the real problem that needs solved here.

Unfortunately in some cases one has to speculate to accumulate, so it mate be that some funds are needed to be spent on creating a solution that in future the club will benefit and profit from.

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Did you see my post above regarding the guy who is trying to sell his ST seats?

He knows how to release those seats, but he's looking for something for them. My idea would accomplish that.

It's academic anyway so I'll leave it there.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Did you see my post above regarding the guy who is trying to sell his ST seats?

He knows how to release those seats, but he's looking for something for them. My idea would accomplish that.

It's academic anyway so I'll leave it there.

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I did see your post and if I’m honest I think any ‘fan’ looking to profit from their season tickets is no real fan to me, that’s my opinion, I’m sure some will agree and others will disagree.

I can can guarantee that this ‘fan’ wouldn’t have been looking for an incentive to release his seats if it had been against anyone other than Aberdeen Celtic, Rangers or hearts.

your idea would accomplish the release of more seats in these situations, no one is arguing against that point.... I just don’t agree with profiting from it.

Its certainly not academic!

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Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby

Club shouldn't resell season seats if money goes back to holder unless every single available home fan seat is sold otherwise we deprive the club of money

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I totally agree with you on this point but this is where charging the same price for adult tickets across the stadium comes into play.... some who release their STs are releasing what may be more desirable seats, yet if you are someone buying a ticket for the match just before the reselling starts you may end up in what some consider a poorer seat.

There are so many variables in this debate, would be a hard one to come to any real conclusion.

its certainly not academic :wink:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

I did see your post and if I’m honest I think any ‘fan’ looking to profit from their season tickets is no real fan to me, that’s my opinion, I’m sure some will agree and others will disagree.

I can can guarantee that this ‘fan’ wouldn’t have been looking for an incentive to release his seats if it had been against anyone other than Aberdeen Celtic, Rangers or hearts.

your idea would accomplish the release of more seats in these situations, no one is arguing against that point.... I just don’t agree with profiting from it.

Its certainly not academic!

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How can getting a fiver back for a ticket you've paid £20 for towards next year's ST be deemed as making a profit?

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

How can getting a fiver back for a ticket you've paid £20 for towards next year's ST be deemed as making a profit?

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When comparing it to others’ (myself included’s) suggestion that supporters shouldn’t receive anything as incentive to release their unused ST seat(s) then it’s making a profit.

You are also taking that aspect of my response completely out of context.... this ‘fan’ on facebook isn’t asking for a fiver is he?

Plus I am one of those who treats it like once it’s paid for I don’t value my ST as a per game ticket, it’s a pass for the whole package.... once it’s bought and paid for its down to you to use it fully, if you cannot do so then why should you receive a ‘partial refund’?

I feel like its almost like paying to go to the cinema or the theatre and you nip out to visit the toilet and miss some of the show, then asking at the box office for some money back or money off your next visit. You just wouldn’t do it.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

When comparing it to others’ (myself included’s) suggestion that supporters shouldn’t receive anything as incentive to release their unused ST seat(s) then it’s making a profit.

You are also taking that aspect of my response completely out of context.... this ‘fan’ on facebook isn’t asking for a fiver is he?

Plus I am one of those who treats it like once it’s paid for I don’t value my ST as a per game ticket, it’s a pass for the whole package.... once it’s bought and paid for its down to you to use it fully, if you cannot do so then why should you receive a ‘partial refund’?

I feel like its almost like paying to go to the cinema or the theatre and you nip out to visit the toilet and miss some of the show, then asking at the box office for some money back or money off your next visit. You just wouldn’t do it.

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Cool.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Cool.

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Way cool.

:banana:

Do you see my point yet?

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

I feel like its almost like paying to go to the cinema or the theatre and you nip out to visit the toilet and miss some of the show, then asking at the box office for some money back or money off your next visit. You just wouldn’t do it.

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It's absolutely nothing like that though, is it?

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Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith

It's absolutely nothing like that though, is it?

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Out of all the comparisons I have read on here it’s the closest I can think of... can you explain why you think I’m off the mark?

Just to summarise my POV on this matter, as I know it’s become quite long winded (I’m currently recovering from knee surgery so have had little better to do the past few days!)

I agree that an incentive would make the simple task of releasing one’s ST a little more enticing to some, but I feel that it is unnecessary and that the solution would most likely be better visibility and clarity from hibs on how to do so. Their recent mention of how to do so in social media updates in relation to the Aberdeen match is a good start.

Where I am failing to agree with some is that some folk feel that they should be entitled to some form of recompense for releasing their unused seat, this I do not agree with as I feel it puts your own benefit before the club.

My suggestion is to test the water by making it more visible on how to release/donate an unused ST.
if there is not a good take up then fans reps could always formally survey fans groups/forums to see why. Perhaps the only way to bolster the numbers through the gate on sell out games is to pay us to give others the opportunity to watch in our place, but that to me seems against the spirit of supporting a club.

The other issues around this topic like children’s ST pricing etc is another kettle of fish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Out of all the comparisons I have read on here it’s the closest I can think of... can you explain why you think I’m off the mark?

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Because nothing about the two scenarios are remotely similar.

The cinema doesn't re-sell your seat if you nip out to the toilet.

You don't buy a cinema ticket which guarantees you the same seat at every screening in a year.



You're all over the shop in this thread, it's pretty entertaining tbf so please carry on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith

Because nothing about the two scenarios are remotely similar.

The cinema doesn't re-sell your seat if you nip out to the toilet.

You don't buy a cinema ticket which guarantees you the same seat at every screening in a year.



You're all over the shop in this thread, it's pretty entertaining tbf so please carry on.

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Ha, this is where you are misinterpreting my comparison. I actually think my example is certainly more similar than comparing the situation to drivers speeding and the use of speed cameras as another poster suggested.... Nothing is quite as comparable so I’ll explain my point.

The suggestion that one should receive a reward or a partial refund for not fully using their ST is what I was trying to demonstrate.

By thinking of the full movie/show as your full ST I was suggesting that when you choose to leave temporarily for whatever reason (missing a match on your ST) you would never expect to receive money off your next ticket or a partial refund would you? What happens to your seat in both scenarios has no bearing on these expectations of financial recompense. Regardless if it is empty or not during your voluntary absence is outside of this comparison. In an insane world if it turned out the cinema was reselling your seat during your absence, even for a few minutes then we could discuss whether or not one deserved to be compensated, but the scales are too off for that and you would have to pretend you were able to inform the cinema pre-movie of your intended voluntary absence. :greengrin

So why should one expect similar on a larger scale?

You can’t throw in the tangible issue of reselling the seat in the comparison cos it doesn’t quite fit (of course the cinema are not expecting to resell your seat during your short absence, that’s just ridiculous).


ps I actually don’t think I have been all over the shop at all.... my previous summary has remained true throughout my posts, I have just tried to respond to a variety of other viewpoints.

Glad I can entertain though, it’s certainly keeping me sane (debatable I know) as I endure my ‘Rear Window-esque’ current situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Do you see my point yet?

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Yip.

The empty seats are worth it.

Getting a fiver back for something you paid £20 for is a profit.

And you should be able to sell your seat if you go for a wizz during a film.

That about right?

As I said, it's academic. Hibs will do nothing and the empty seats will remain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

You can’t throw in the tangible issue of reselling the seat in the comparison cos it doesn’t quite fit (of course the cinema are not expecting to resell your seat during your short absence, that’s just ridiculous).

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I agree, comparing going to the toilet during a film to missing a football match is ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

By thinking of the full movie/show as your full ST I was suggesting that when you choose to leave temporarily for whatever reason (missing a match on your ST)

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Oh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Yip.

The empty seats are worth it.

Getting a fiver back for something you paid £20 for is a profit.

And you should be able to sell your seat if you go for a wizz during a film.

That about right?

As I said, it's academic. Hibs will do nothing and the empty seats will remain.

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You are are definitely twisting my words to fit your purpose in this summary, the only thing that is apparent here is that it’s all about perspective.

I stated the empty seats are only worth it if it stops money going FROM the club into FANS pockets.

If you see your ST as a game-by-game purchase to you can are paying £20 per game and not £360 for 1 Season. Any return on your investment into a ST should be seen as you making a money back FROM the club, I realise that using the term profit isn’t correct here as it’s less than your initial outlay.

The reselling your cinema seat point is mute as I was clear in saying that I was demonstrating the expectation of refund or reward based on voluntary absence.

and finally,

You may be correct that Hibs may not go further (you cannot say “will do nothing” as they have pointed out that unused STs can be released in their recent social media comms), but we as fans and more importantly SUPPORTERS could do a little to spread the word of the ease of releasing/DONATING unused STs back for resale - to benefit the CLUB not the individual fan.

Simple really.

i could try and be smart and incorrectly summarise your points to say...

If a fan doesn’t attend a match then let’s give them some money back, cos that’s the only way to guarantee a full stadium for big games. Instead of just being informative let’s just throw money at the problem, cos we are minted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith

I agree, comparing going to the toilet during a film to missing a football match is ridiculous.



Oh.

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Maths isn’t your strong point is it?

Missing a few matches for your total ST is actually reasonably similar percentage to visiting the toilet during a movie.

Like Hibbyradge I'm another out of towner going to Aberdeen on Saturday (unlike him it's my first game since 'that day') and I'm delighted we're in a position that we spend pages discussing how to fill empty but paid for seats.

I suspect it's slightly off topic - but I'd like to see two other initiatives by the club:

1. A non-allocated seats area. A part of the ground where regulars can take irregular mates - part of the deal would be that the season ticket holder's regular seat would be resold. I think Swansea City have a similar scheme.

2. A 'Carnet' ticket - this is where you could buy tickets for say 5 or 10 games and use them whenever you were in town (it would probably have to be restricted to category B games).

However I suspect we are getting to the stage that we don't have enough spare capacity for either and we have to really look at ways of persuading non-attending season ticket holders to make their seats available more often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Maths isn’t your strong point is it?

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What an odd thing to say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby

2. A 'Carnet' ticket - this is where you could buy tickets for say 5 or 10 games and use them whenever you were in town (it would probably have to be restricted to category B games).

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I always liked this idea, but I think the problem with it for a club of our size is it would actually lose money, as people would buy the 'carnet' ticket instead of a season ticket, in greater numbers than the uptake of 'new' ticket holders buying them.

Then you'd have the whole argument about where they come in the queue for Tynie tickets :stirrer:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby

Like Hibbyradge I'm another out of towner going to Aberdeen on Saturday (unlike him it's my first game since 'that day') and I'm delighted we're in a position that we spend pages discussing how to fill empty but paid for seats.

I suspect it's slightly off topic - but I'd like to see two other initiatives by the club:

1. A non-allocated seats area. A part of the ground where regulars can take irregular mates - part of the deal would be that the season ticket holder's regular seat would be resold. I think Swansea City have a similar scheme.

2. A 'Carnet' ticket - this is where you could buy tickets for say 5 or 10 games and use them whenever you were in town (it would probably have to be restricted to category B games).

However I suspect we are getting to the stage that we don't have enough spare capacity for either and we have to really look at ways of persuading non-attending season ticket holders to make their seats available more often.

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Any and every suggestion or solution to this issue is more than welcome Liberal, thank you.

In relation to your first point, it’s quite similar when a season ticket holder upgrades their ticket to a hospitality ticket... the club then resell your usual seat. The non allocated system you suggest would likely work like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

You are are definitely twisting my words to fit your purpose in this summary, the only thing that is apparent here is that it’s all about perspective.

I stated the empty seats are only worth it if it stops money going FROM the club into FANS pockets.

If you see your ST as a game-by-game purchase to you can are paying £20 per game and not £360 for 1 Season. Any return on your investment into a ST should be seen as you making a money back FROM the club

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I have bought a ticket for the game on Saturday.

I paid £22 for it, I think.

If I can't go, I'll give it back to the club to resell.

If they do resell it, I get a fiver towards my next ticket. If they don't, I get nothing.

So, Hibs have had £22 from me. They get another £22 from reselling my ticket.

I get £5 credit.

Hibs net £37.

Me net £ -17.

How am I making money from the club?

Now, extrapolate that into a season ticket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith

What an odd thing to say.

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Interesting that you keep editing my posts in your quotes to disclude important aspects of my responses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Interesting that you keep editing my posts in your quotes to disclude important aspects of my responses.

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I know, it's almost as if I'm using the quote function on the message board to pick up the parts I want to respond to.

Bonkers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I have bought a ticket for the game on Saturday.

I paid £22 for it, I think.

If I can't go, I'll give it back to the club to resell.

If they do resell it, I get a fiver towards my next ticket.

So, Hibs have had £22 from me. They get another £22 from reselling my ticket.

I get £5 credit.

Hibs net £37.

Me net £ -17.

How am I making money from the club?

Now, extrapolate that into a season ticket.

---

You buy two season tickets, one for you and one for the wee man. You ya yours every week. You buy his for £25. He rarely goes by for the big 6 games you resell his ticket to the club. You have already had a discounted ticket from the club, you will then get 6 x £5 credits. You paid £25, gained £30, £5 profit...

The club presumably make nothing from these cheap seasons (struggle to see how the could at £1.30 per game) so the resale would just about cover that, but they’re also paying out £30 to you.

Again, it’s opinions, you think people should be incentivised, I and others don’t and feel the club gaining maximum £££ to buy the eat payers should be the incentive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I have bought a ticket for the game on Saturday.

I paid £22 for it, I think.

If I can't go, I'll give it back to the club to resell.

If they do resell it, I get a fiver towards my next ticket.

So, Hibs have had £22 from me. They get another £22 from reselling my ticket.

I get £5 credit.

Hibs net £37.

Me net £ -17.

How am I making money from the club?

Now, extrapolate that into a season ticket.

---

because I feel that the numbers should look more like this.

£22 Initial outlay

You then choose not to attend the game, for whatever reason.

The club resells your ticket for £22.

Your net -£22 (same as if you had attended, after all its was your choice to miss the game)

Hibs net £44

Now extrapolate that over a ST and multiply by how ver man6 fans regularly miss matches they have already paid for through the purchase of their ST.

See £5 back to you multiplied by all the times you CHOOSE to miss a match and then further multiplied by the number of fans who regularly do the same is actually a vast amount of money.

Lets say the average is 500 fans a week for say 20 home fixtures a season, that’s 10,000 seats resold a season.

Multiply that by £22, that’s £220,000.

If you take £5 away for non attendance credit for each of these fans that’s a big chunk of potential wages for a new signing or signing on fees or even a transfer fee.

This is my point.

The logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many (the club and its fan base) outweigh the needs of the few (the individuals racking up a discount of next year ST, thus doing the club out of further funds!).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith

I know, it's almost as if I'm using the quote function on the message board to pick up the parts I want to respond to.

Bonkers.

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Thus making my responses seem less impactful or insightful to your sole benefit. Very good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by May2116

You buy two season tickets, one for you and one for the wee man. You ya yours every week. You buy his for £25. He rarely goes by for the big 6 games you resell his ticket to the club. You have already had a discounted ticket from the club, you will then get 6 x £5 credits. You paid £25, gained £30, £5 profit...

The club presumably make nothing from these cheap seasons (struggle to see how the could at £1.30 per game) so the resale would just about cover that, but they’re also paying out £30 to you.

Again, it’s opinions, you think people should be incentivised, I and others don’t and feel the club gaining maximum £££ to buy the eat payers should be the incentive.

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The club would only give a resell bounty if the ticket was sold.

Maybe a fiver for adult seats, £1 for kids. That can be determined.

The "bounty" discount is used towards a new, similar, season ticket.
What's the problem with that?

As has been pointed out, EPL clubs do this. Why not Hibs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by May2116

You buy two season tickets, one for you and one for the wee man. You ya yours every week. You buy his for £25. He rarely goes by for the big 6 games you resell his ticket to the club. You have already had a discounted ticket from the club, you will then get 6 x £5 credits. You paid £25, gained £30, £5 profit...

The club presumably make nothing from these cheap seasons (struggle to see how the could at £1.30 per game) so the resale would just about cover that, but they’re also paying out £30 to you.

Again, it’s opinions, you think people should be incentivised, I and others don’t and feel the club gaining maximum £££ to buy the eat payers should be the incentive.

---

Finally someone who sees it how I see it. Albeit much more concisely 😂

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

because I feel that the numbers should look more like this.

£22 Initial outlay

You then choose not to attend the game, for whatever reason.

The club resells your ticket for £22.

Your net -£22 (same as if you had attended, after all its was your choice to miss the game)

Hibs net £44

Now extrapolate that over a ST and multiply by how ver man6 fans regularly miss matches they have already paid for through the purchase of their ST.

See £5 back to you multiplied by all the times you CHOOSE to miss a match and then further multiplied by the number of fans who regularly do the same is actually a vast amount of money.

Lets say the average is 500 fans a week for say 20 home fixtures a season, that’s 10,000 seats resold a season.

Multiply that by £22, that’s £220,000.

If you take £5 away for non attendance credit for each of these fans that’s a big chunk of potential wages for a new signing or signing on fees or even a transfer fee.

This is my point.

The logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many (the club and its fan base) outweigh the needs of the few (the individuals racking up a discount of next year ST, thus doing the club out of further funds!).

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If Hibs don't resell, and make money from doing so, no discount is payable.

Have you missed that point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

The club would only give a resell bounty if the ticket was sold.

Maybe a fiver for adult seats, £1 for kids. That can be determined.

The "bounty" discount is used towards a new, similar, season ticket.
What's the problem with that?

As has been pointed out, EPL clubs do this. Why not Hibs?

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EPL clubs do this as a gesture because they can afford it!! SPFL teams need every penny!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

If Hibs don't resell, and make money from doing so, no discount is payable.

Have you missed that point?

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Not at all... I have said let’s average 500 tickets being resold every week. It may be higher than the truth but it just shows the numbers we are talking about!

The whole calculation is based on resold tickets... see line 4 of my response!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

EPL clubs do this as a gesture because they can afford it!! SPFL teams need every penny!

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You're not paying attention.

If I return my ticket, and it's not sold, I get nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Not at all... I have said let’s average 500 tickets being resold every week. It may be higher than the truth but it just shows the numbers we are talking about!

The whole calculation is based on resold tickets... see line 4 of my response!

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If Hibs resell, they make money.

We are not asking Hibs to add this as a revenue stream to factor their budget on every year... so whether the tickets are resold or not isn’t the point, the point is that if they do I fact resell this many tickets a season look at how much ‘bonus’ funds we can help generate, just from being what some may consider ‘charitable’ and not greedy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

If Hibs resell, they make money.

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EXACTLY!!!

and if no ‘incentive’ is returned what happens then???

HIBS MAKE MORE MONEY!!!

Let’s put it this way....

If the process became incentivised lie you suggest and £5 was returned to me should I miss a game and the club resell my seat (whether in credit or in actual cash), I would donate that incentive back to the club. No questions asked!

That’s the difference!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

We are not asking Hibs to add this as a revenue stream to factor their budget on every year... so whether the tickets are resold or not isn’t the point, the point is that if they do I fact resell this many tickets a season look at how much ‘bonus’ funds we can help generate, just from being what some may consider ‘charitable’ and not greedy!

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And we'll continue to watch the empty seats, week after week.

At least we'll be pure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Let’s put it this way....

If the process became incentivised lie you suggest and £5 was returned to me should I miss a game and the club resell my seat (whether in credit or in actual cash), I would donate that incentive back to the club. No questions asked!

That’s the difference!

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You're a star.

If only everyone was like you.

But, the reality is they're not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

You're not paying attention.

If I return my ticket, and it's not sold, I get nothing.

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Are you suggesting that EPL teams pay for unsold returns!!!!???????

The whole point is you should get nothing!!!

By purchasing the ST you have taken that specific revenue away from the club should you not attend!!!!

After all the club wants bums in seats, if you buy a ST and don’t attend do you think the club are 100% happy about it!!!?

From a financial POV they will be happy, they had a product and they sold it... good business.

From a football club POV they will want a bum in that seat shouting and singing and supporting the club further... and more than likely pumping more revenue into the club through pies and bovril and spontaneous club shop sales after we thump the Yams 5-0 and buy a T Shirt after the game that says so.........!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

You're a star.

If only everyone was like you.

But, the reality is they're not.

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And that is why many are called Hibs FANS.

I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

And that are what many call Hibs FANS.

I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!

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Super.

Well done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

And that is why many are called Hibs FANS.

I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!

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Check you

The whole FAN v SUPPORTER issue is universal in football, but in the current climate where we see 100,000 people in the streets of Edinburgh celebrating the Cup victory and then struggle to beat our noisy neighbours in ST sales it’s a valid point to be made!

We could mention the dreaded HIbs Class phrase but I know that will open a whole new can of worms!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

And we'll continue to watch the empty seats, week after week.

At least we'll be pure.

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This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.

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In an ideal world every season ticket holder who can't go to a match notifies the club without recompense, no one is disagreeing with that. We don't live in an ideal world though.

The club have details of the number of returns they get for each game, but human nature would suggest that these will be less for big games, because out of towers etc make a bigger effort to make the game. Next sold out game (no one that I can see is saying that an incentive will be paid if game isn't sold out) the club offers £5 credit to next year's season ticket (whether that is lower for child ST's is for discussion but for the sake of argument say £5 across the board) if you notify that your ticket can be resold and it sells. The club can then assess whether the scheme is profitable vs the uncompensated approach. No one knows the answer to this but a lot of posters (myself included) think it would be, you say it wouldn't be which is fine, but I'm sure we all agree that whichever is more profitable should be the route we go down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.

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You need to brush up your interpretation skills.

What you think was "moral" guilt (whatever that is) was, in fact, sarcasm. Why would I feel guilty about empty seats? :hilarious:

I have the same estimation of other Hibs supporters as I have of any other group of people. I have never suggested that there is only 1 way to encourage people to release their seats. Unlike you, I'm ruling no initiative out.

You would agree that recycling our waste is important, wouldn't you. Important to keep council tax down and important for the health of the planet, something which is even more vital than Hibs' continuing success.

Why doesn't everyone recycle all their recyclable waste? In the UK, around 50% of our glass bottles are not recycled. That's shocking, particularly when you consider that in Finland only 3% gets through the net.

Why the difference? You've guessed it. There is a small financial incentive for returning used glass bottles. Even for something as important as the health of our planet, and the environment that we and our children live in, people don't do the right thing.

Mind you, they're not supporters like you, right enough. (For the sake of clarity, that was also sarcasm).

In any case, as I've said before, it's academic so I'll just leave it there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

I think it’s a mixture, but looking at the Famous Five stand, I would estimate that the majority are children’s STs

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What does an empty children's seat look like compared to an empty adults?

All pretty straight forward, offer the ticket holder the money they paid for said seat when they hand it back to the club if they can't make certain games, not really rocket science, maybe charge a small admin fee to do so.

If there was an easy way where you could log on and give your ticket back, then recieve a small refund if sold, then i'm all for it.

Where i would not refund anything, would be if the ticket was a discounted one, they are already benefiting greatly in my opinion.

I'd imagine if it was easy, and if it did give that refund or a sum of credit say for the club shop, more folk would make the effort than if nothing was forthcoming.

Personally i feel that would be the fair way to go, sometimes a little incentive is needed for folk to act, it is easy to do nothing.

And of course if that ticket is resold, its win win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

You need to brush up your interpretation skills.

What you think was "moral" guilt (whatever that is) was, in fact, sarcasm. Why would I feel guilty about empty seats? :hilarious:

I have the same estimation of other Hibs supporters as I have of any other group of people. I have never suggested that there is only 1 way to encourage people to release their seats. Unlike you, I'm ruling no initiative out.

You would agree that recycling our waste is important, wouldn't you. Important to keep council tax down and important for the health of the planet, something which is even more vital than Hibs' continuing success.

Why doesn't everyone recycle all their recyclable waste? In the UK, around 50% of our glass bottles are not recycled. That's shocking, particularly when you consider that in Finland only 3% gets through the net.

Why the difference? You've guessed it. There is a small financial incentive for returning used glass bottles. Even for something as important as the health of our planet, and the environment that we and our children live in, people don't do the right thing.

Mind you, they're not supporters like you, right enough. (For the sake of clarity, that was also sarcasm).

In any case, as I've said before, it's academic so I'll just leave it there.

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I have said it once and I will say it again, I think we are going the same point with slightly differing perspectives... if a solution that maximises Hibs finances for ST return (ie no incentive) didn’t work, then I would say trying an incentivised solution would be the next step... I would just prefer that the fans backed the non incentive method.

Like the Finnish incentivised recycling programme, I don’t deny that it would work, but I cannot deny that it’s disappointing that funds that could be used for better things are used to pay people to ‘do the right thing’. Maybe it’s a generational thing, I see a lot more older generations that do not make the effort to recycle. It’s certainly not down to being misinformed about recycling in the uk, most councils do almost all of the work for you! Those who choose not to recycle in this country are more than likely just lazy. In the ST scenario the fans are actually asked to do a bit more work themselves (a quick email seems too much for some folk!) so I can see their struggle with the additional steps :)

Can I ask you directly, what is your issue with the club getting all the money from reselling STs?
You are more than aware of the process of returning your ST, do you return it if you cannot attend and cannot pass it on to a friend?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

Are you suggesting that EPL teams pay for unsold returns!!!!???????

The whole point is you should get nothing!!!

By purchasing the ST you have taken that specific revenue away from the club should you not attend!!!!

After all the club wants bums in seats, if you buy a ST and don’t attend do you think the club are 100% happy about it!!!?

From a financial POV they will be happy, they had a product and they sold it... good business.

From a football club POV they will want a bum in that seat shouting and singing and supporting the club further... and more than likely pumping more revenue into the club through pies and bovril and spontaneous club shop sales after we thump the Yams 5-0 and buy a T Shirt after the game that says so.........!

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:confused: Well that's a new one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

I have said it once and I will say it again, I think we are going the same point with slightly differing perspectives... if a solution that maximises Hibs finances for ST return (ie no incentive) didn’t work, then I would say trying an incentivised solution would be the next step... I would just prefer that the fans backed the non incentive method.

Like the Finnish incentivised recycling programme, I don’t deny that it would work, but I cannot deny that it’s disappointing that funds that could be used for better things are used to pay people to ‘do the right thing’. Maybe it’s a generational thing, I see a lot more older generations that do not make the effort to recycle. It’s certainly not down to being misinformed about recycling in the uk, most councils do almost all of the work for you! Those who choose not to recycle in this country are more than likely just lazy. In the ST scenario the fans are actually asked to do a bit more work themselves (a quick email seems too much for some folk!) so I can see their struggle with the additional steps :)

Can I ask you directly, what is your issue with the club getting all the money from reselling STs?
You are more than aware of the process of returning your ST, do you return it if you cannot attend and cannot pass it on to a friend?

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I'd imagine his issue is exactly the same as mine, that if incentives paid makes Hibs more money than the status quo then we should introduce them. Simple as that for me. The recycling analogy is relevant here, offer a reward and you'll get more people emailing the club I can almost guarantee it. If that amount more equates to more than the cost of the incentive (I would suggest it certainly would) then Hibs are making more than they would be doing nothing. I don't see what you're missing here?

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Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

What does an empty children's seat look like compared to an empty adults?

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There's no dents in the back of the seat infront

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Originally Posted by grammyb111

I'd imagine his issue is exactly the same as mine, that if incentives paid makes Hibs more money than the status quo then we should introduce them. Simple as that for me. The recycling analogy is relevant here, offer a reward and you'll get more people emailing the club I can almost guarantee it. If that amount more equates to more than the cost of the incentive (I would suggest it certainly would) then Hibs are making more than they would be doing nothing. I don't see what you're missing here?

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We are not debating the status quo tho are we... we are debating whether incentives should or shouldn’t be used to make fans aware of the process. Not whether incentives would work better than no incentives!!

So you are saying that you think Hibs making £22 per resold seat, is worse than Hibs making £17 on resold seats and you get a fiver!!!!!

My argument has always been to make the process easy, straight forward and most of all with no financial incentive. So that HIBS CAN MAXIMISE FUNDS, not you!!!

It’s seems that a lot of people on here would only return their unused ST if they were rewarded for doing so, which I feel is a shame.

What it seems many of you are doing in this debate is making assumptions that should every ST holder be perfectly aware of how to return their unused ST seat that most would only do so for financial gain!!!

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Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby

:confused: Well that's a new one.

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Another who reads one line out of context and highlights it for their own agenda I see!!!


Do you need me to explain in context???

Here’s a hint... read the rest of the post and you will understand the point.

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Originally Posted by BlackSheep

We are not debating the status quo tho are we... we are debating whether incentives should or shouldn’t be used to make fans aware of the process. Not whether incentives would work better than no incentives!!

So you are saying that you think Hibs making £22 per resold seat, is worse than Hibs making £17 on resold seats and you get a fiver!!!!!

My argument has always been to make the process easy, straight forward and most of all with no financial incentive. So that HIBS CAN MAXIMISE FUNDS, not you!!!

It’s seems that a lot of people on here would only return their unused ST if they were rewarded for doing so, which I feel is a shame.

What it seems many of you are doing in this debate is making assumptions that should every ST holder be perfectly aware of how to return their unused ST seat that most would only do so for financial gain!!!

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What I do agree with is that ideally everyone who couldn't go would release their ticket back to the club and the club would resell it. There are a number of issues with that though where 'maximising revenue' cannot work:
Since this is only happening for sold out games would we only resell that to an adult rather than concession, if it was to a concession we'd make less so aren't maximising revenue.
All the people (myself included) who can't go but pass on their ticket to a friend, if we passed it back to the club the club would make money, but just about everyone would accept that giving it to a friend is a reasonable thing to do

We have at most six games a season where this might be an issue. By all means the club could (and should) do more to make it clear to people that if they can't go they should return their season ticket, but how long does that plea fall on deaf ears before they give up? Some people need incentivised to do things, so give it a try and see if it's more profitable.

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Originally Posted by grammyb111

What I do agree with is that ideally everyone who couldn't go would release their ticket back to the club and the club would resell it. There are a number of issues with that though where 'maximising revenue' cannot work:
Since this is only happening for sold out games would we only resell that to an adult rather than concession, if it was to a concession we'd make less so aren't maximising revenue.
All the people (myself included) who can't go but pass on their ticket to a friend, if we passed it back to the club the club would make money, but just about everyone would accept that giving it to a friend is a reasonable thing to do

We have at most six games a season where this might be an issue. By all means the club could (and should) do more to make it clear to people that if they can't go they should return their season ticket, but how long does that plea fall on deaf ears before they give up? Some people need incentivised to do things, so give it a try and see if it's more profitable.

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Finally a sensible reply.

Yup, we all have friends to pass on our tickets to in our absence but there is the odd time that even they cannot go in your place.

This is where this discussion started.

Yes how long can the club ask for unused ST to be returned? No one knows because they haven’t tried it yet... their recent mention of the process on social media was the first I have seen publicly tried and it was more of a pop than with an attention catching bang if you get what I mean.

The one aspect of this discussion that seems to divide people is the incentive-to-make-folk-aware approach.

Until the club have tried and failed to make it public knowledge and shoved it down our throats that we can return unused STs I am not for trying the incentive based approach.

As for maximising profits, the tickets can be resold to any level of buyer be it Adult, Child or Concession... my only wish is that if the ticket is resold, HIbs keep 100% of the resale.

I am in not correct in saying that if we can create a system where ST holder return their ticket for no reward and Hibs make 100% resale then this is the best solution.

It just seems to me that some folk are not willing to try and spread the word and make fans aware of the process without an added incentive.