Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Lee Marvin

Isolation cut in England from 10 to 7 days with negative tests on day 6 and 7.

Isolation in Scotland still 10 days even if you do not have covid.

Hate to say it, but England seem to be getting far more right than Scotland and Wales during this particular wave of the pandemic.

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Watch Boris introduce what the FM done on Christmas Eve and will come into affect on Boxing Day.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

What is the truth?


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Are you dismissing the data provided by South Africa, Denmark, The WHO, The BMJ and Cambridge University?

I'd have no problem if they said smothing along the lines of:

Despite early evidence suggesting Omicron is less severe, we'd like to err on the side of caution.

That would be a reasonable statement.

To lie and say there is no evidence is misleading the public.

Fans planning to attend football games on Wednesday are being urged to stay at home, as new Covid rules limiting the size of crowds don’t come into effect until Boxing Day.

Deputy first minister John Swinney said the cancellation of games is a matter for the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL).

Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland programme on Wednesday morning, Swinney said: “Our guidance to people is basically to restrict their social interaction – to stay at home more than they would do so.

“I would encourage people to do exactly that.

“There are clearly dangers of people travelling to football matches, because they’re going to be going on to multiple forms of transport, they will be car-sharing, they may well be using supporters’ buses and all the rest of it.

“These are opportunities for the virus to spread and we know that the Omicron variant spreads much more aggressively than is the case (with other variants).

“If people want to protect their community then I would encourage them to follow the guidance that we have set, which is to stay at home and restrict their social interaction.”

https://news.stv.tv/sport/football-f...-rules-imposed

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

Watch Boris introduce what the FM done on Christmas Eve and will come into affect on Boxing Day.

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Nap of the day.

All of them trying to "save Christmas" with their ridiculous rules.

The virus that is so dangerous it takes days off for religious festivals.

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

My son is exempt from wearing a mask, he doesn’t wear one at work but uses one of these plastic visors, when he has to pop in to shops or things like that he puts a mask on, he also has a lanyard explaining he is exempt from wearing a mask which he only wears while at work.

Anyone saying they can’t wear a mask for 20 minutes of shopping is talking crap, shops should be refusing entry to people who try to walk in to a Morrisons Sainsburys etc etc, at the Gyle the security guy just lets folk stroll in without them on, worst offenders are young worky guys who seem to think they don’t need them.

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That's because you actually cant force somebody to wear one.

You are completely right about workies though. Was in Greggs earlier and seems a Hi-viz jacket protects you from covid better than a mask.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

What is the truth?


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The truth is there is preliminary data and evidence that omicron may be producing favourable outcomes compared to previous variants.

Yes the evidence is incomplete and there are consideration that have to be taken into account but to say there is 'no evidence' or even 'no compelling evidence' is a lie.

I think treading with caution is a sensible policy at this point but actively denying evidence exists is just odd. Aside from anything else it seems to naively underestimate how accessible this is. People aren't getting it from some guy with a YouTube channel. It's respected institutions releasing this stuff.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

South African gov and public health England estimate 30% less severe, that's after adjusting for past infection and vaccination. Denmark estimate its milder, as does Australian government today and France yesterday. Apparently ukhsa are going to give there real world report at the end of this week and it will also say definitely milder but the only danger is how high and long the wave is.

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Which is great but if it’s 30% milder but 100% more transmissible then that still means a lot of people contracting it will get sick and need hospital.
And we will still have the massive staff shortages in the hospital due to isolating staff. That means cancer wards not operating as they should etc.
if it wasn’t for the massive staff shortages in our hospitals just now which is causing them to grind to a halt, I’d be with you 100%. We are all boosted now so let’s get opened up. But the NHS is struggling to cope and it’s a very real problem right now.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Lots of criticism as usual at all the inconsistencies in the guidelines. This has been happening since the beginning of the pandemic. And it happens to all govts all over the world. My what’s app group with friends in Oz is full of all the same discussions about their rules. How come this is deemed safe and not that? Etc etc. My sympathy extends even to Johnson & Co Down south on this. It’s very difficult to curbs peoples freedoms in this case and not upset people.

On the panto, let’s face it, the SG does not think it’s safe. They know it will cause people to contract Covid. It will spread the disease. They know this but they can’t do anything about it because they have no control over the finances needed to compensate the business if it closes down. As it is, I think it will close anyway due to cancellations and the 200 limit prob makes it unviable.

If Scotland were a normal independent country right now, all of these things would be closed just now and furlough restarted. As we are not, the SG can’t take the steps it wants to take. Only time will tell if those steps would be the correct thing to do. If we see hospitals overwhelmed in January then it’s on the UK govt only willing to provide support if England needs it.


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It's a big stretch (and entirely hypothetical) to claim things would be so much better handled if only we were independent. Besides that, I don't think who pays for what is what's fuelling the backlash against these latest restrictions. It's whether they're necessary in the first place which is hacking people off. The numbers hospitalised by Omicron thus far are miniscule, the booster/vaccine rollout continues to operate at impressive pace and yet we're now feeling 'guilted' into doing anything that might conceivably be deemed irresponsible. When you've been double vaccinated and boosted and complied with every measure introduced over the last couple of years only to be told we're effectively going back to square one when it comes to attending any sort of public event or hospitality venue then I think it's reasonable to question the decision-making process from the Scottish government - in particular when so little of it seems to conform to any sort of logic.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There is no assistance to apply for. Unless they feel England needs it, then Scotland won’t get it.


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Maybe they shouldn’t be doing what they’re doing then. Telling people not to go out without compensating the businesses affected is wrong. Trading peoples livelihoods for health is wrong and it’s not a decision they have the right to make imo.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There is no assistance to apply for. Unless they feel England needs it, then Scotland won’t get it.


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There are other funds, my business insurance would have covered a percentage of my losses had events been cancelled due to public health crisis. Plus the added costs of returning deposits as it’s not worth risking your reputation arguing that as they who are cancelling, its not returnable. The absolute pish message of you can still work but telling the public not to go to Christmas parties and now the table top only service with the 2m distance. Still waiting for the fine print about dancing …my December totally decimated 👏👏👏 well done Nippy

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ne...s-week-1364554

New restrictions in England could be avoided if hospital admissions in London do not soar this week .There are signs that Omicron cases in the capital and across the UK could be plateauing – but remain at a high level

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Fans planning to attend football games on Wednesday are being urged to stay at home, as new Covid rules limiting the size of crowds don’t come into effect until Boxing Day.

Deputy first minister John Swinney said the cancellation of games is a matter for the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL).

Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland programme on Wednesday morning, Swinney said: “Our guidance to people is basically to restrict their social interaction – to stay at home more than they would do so.

“I would encourage people to do exactly that.

“There are clearly dangers of people travelling to football matches, because they’re going to be going on to multiple forms of transport, they will be car-sharing, they may well be using supporters’ buses and all the rest of it.

“These are opportunities for the virus to spread and we know that the Omicron variant spreads much more aggressively than is the case (with other variants).

“If people want to protect their community then I would encourage them to follow the guidance that we have set, which is to stay at home and restrict their social interaction.”

https://news.stv.tv/sport/football-f...-rules-imposed

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He can **** off.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

The truth is there is preliminary data and evidence that omicron may be producing favourable outcomes compared to previous variants.

Yes the evidence is incomplete and there are consideration that have to be taken but to say there is 'no evidence' or even 'no compelling evidence' is a lie.

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That’s not what I’m saying though. I believe it will be milder and going by the data, that’s what it looks like. Which is fantastic.
But if the higher transmissibility means that more people are going to hospital then it will still overwhelm an already stretched health service.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Which is great but if it’s 30% milder but 100% more transmissible then that still means a lot of people contracting it will get sick and need hospital.
And we will still have the massive staff shortages in the hospital due to isolating staff. That means cancer wards not operating as they should etc.
if it wasn’t for the massive staff shortages in our hospitals just now which is causing them to grind to a halt, I’d be with you 100%. We are all boosted now so let’s get opened up. But the NHS is struggling to cope and it’s a very real problem right now.


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But that's not what you asked tbf you said what a lie and I said that there is no evidence Omicron is milder. I'd go as far as saying it clearly is, australia seems to the best evidence of that as no past infection.

And I agree 30% less virulent could still be a huge problem if massive sustained spike. I'm all for restrictions if that looks likely, all eyes on London. If its a real drop then we're fine

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Originally Posted by silverhibee

My son is exempt from wearing a mask, he doesn’t wear one at work but uses one of these plastic visors, when he has to pop in to shops or things like that he puts a mask on, he also has a lanyard explaining he is exempt from wearing a mask which he only wears while at work.

Anyone saying they can’t wear a mask for 20 minutes of shopping is talking crap, shops should be refusing entry to people who try to walk in to a Morrisons Sainsburys etc etc, at the Gyle the security guy just lets folk stroll in without them on, worst offenders are young worky guys who seem to think they don’t need them.

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My missus is exempt from wearing one too. Don't mind wearing a mask these days.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Maybe they shouldn’t be doing what they’re doing then. Telling people not to go out without compensating the businesses affected is wrong. Trading peoples livelihoods for health is wrong and it’s not a decision they have the right to make imo.

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But they are charged with protecting Scotland’s health service. And they are taking that seriously.


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Originally Posted by Coco Bryce

That's because you actually cant force somebody to wear one.

You are completely right about workies though. Was in Greggs earlier and seems a Hi-viz jacket protects you from covid better than a mask.

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Or the trousers with all the patches/ pockets on them, but yeah the Hi Viz mob are untouchable.

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

There are other funds, my business insurance would have covered a percentage of my losses had events been cancelled due to public health crisis. Plus the added costs of returning deposits as it’s not worth risking your reputation arguing that as they who are cancelling, its not returnable. The absolute pish message of you can still work but telling the public not to go to Christmas parties and now the table top only service with the 2m distance. Still waiting for the fine print about dancing …my December totally decimated [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122] well done Nippy

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Which other funds?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

But they are charged with protecting Scotland’s health service. And they are taking that seriously.


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Not really, they are giving Omicron a week to do its worst, then do what you want on Christmas

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Not really, they are giving Omicron a week to do its worst, then do what you want on Christmas

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Everything in Scotland would have closed two weeks ago if it was possible without having to ask the UK govt for money.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

That’s not what I’m saying though. I believe it will be milder and going by the data, that’s what it looks like. Which is fantastic.
But if the higher transmissibility means that more people are going to hospital then it will still overwhelm an already stretched health service.


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But your respjsne was to a conversation about Drakeford saying there is no evidence omicron is weaker and calling him a liar.

Fwiw I agree with you hence saying we need to tread with caution, and move our isolation into line with England to ease some pressure, but I stand by the point that Drakeford is, along with anyone else who denies a growing body of evidence exists, a liar.

US army scientists have created a vax targeted to work against all SARS-Cov-2 variants and the original SARS as well.

https://www.defenseone.com/technolog...riants/360089/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...paign=sharebar

JVCI to recommend children under 12 'should NOT receive Covid vaccine unless vulnerable'

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

But they are charged with protecting Scotland’s health service. And they are taking that seriously.


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They’re also charged with protecting Scotland’s economy and they’re neglecting that. We’ve had nearly 2 years of this, it’s time for people to use their own judgment about how they want to asses the risk to themselves and act accordingly. By all means push the vaccines but spend the rest of their time increasing capacity and recruitment of staff. I’m 100% in agreement that the situation where we can’t reintroduce furlough unless England do is completely untenable, I’m not sure how anyone can argue against that, but we’ve ended up with worst of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

But your respjsne was to a conversation about Drakeford saying there is no evidence omicron is weaker and calling him a liar.

Fwiw I agree with you hence saying we need to tread with caution, and move our isolation into line with England to ease some pressure, but I stand by the point that Drakeford is, along with anyone else who denies a growing body of evidence exists, a liar.

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Ah ok, I wasn’t agreeing with Drakeford. All evidence points to it being milder so far.
My only point in this is that I know the hospitals are really struggling to cope with staff shortages just now and that is why we need to try slow down this wave. After that I think we need to just get on with it. Everyone who wants a vaccine can now get one so we need move to a more normal way of working. After this wave is over, we need to get to a situation where you only isolate if you have it. We can’t have ten people not working every time someone gets it. And the vaccine needs rolled out every winter. And if you don’t get a vaccine and get sick, we’ll that’s on you.


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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

They’re also charged with protecting Scotland’s economy and they’re neglecting that. We’ve had nearly 2 years of this, it’s time for people to use their own judgment about how they want to asses the risk to themselves and act accordingly. By all means push the vaccines but spend the rest of their time increasing capacity and recruitment of staff. I’m 100% in agreement that the situation where we can’t reintroduce furlough unless England do is completely untenable, I’m not sure how anyone can argue against that, but we’ve ended up with worst of both worlds.

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Recruiting staff almost impossible just now. There is a Labour shortage across the economy since brexit.
Control over Scotlands economy is reserved to Westminster. We can’t change VAT, corporation tax, capital gains tax etc. when it comes to who is responsible for what, I would say the SG have more responsibility for health and the UK govt for the economy. It would be great if the SG had both and a more joined up response might be forthcoming but I’m no defender of the current set up.


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Originally Posted by He's here!

It's a big stretch (and entirely hypothetical) to claim things would be so much better handled if only we were independent. Besides that, I don't think who pays for what is what's fuelling the backlash against these latest restrictions. It's whether they're necessary in the first place which is hacking people off. The numbers hospitalised by Omicron thus far are miniscule, the booster/vaccine rollout continues to operate at impressive pace and yet we're now feeling 'guilted' into doing anything that might conceivably be deemed irresponsible. When you've been double vaccinated and boosted and complied with every measure introduced over the last couple of years only to be told we're effectively going back to square one when it comes to attending any sort of public event or hospitality venue then I think it's reasonable to question the decision-making process from the Scottish government - in particular when so little of it seems to conform to any sort of logic.

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The Royal was over capacity last week despite having empty beds/wards .... entirely driven by available staff numbers

Following on from my post yesterday I can now confirm I have had my first two doses removed from my body.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Recruiting staff almost impossible just now. There is a Labour shortage across the economy since brexit.
Control over Scotlands economy is reserved to Westminster. We can’t change VAT, corporation tax, capital gains tax etc. when it comes to who is responsible for what, I would say the SG have more responsibility for health and the UK govt for the economy. It would be great if the SG had both and a more joined up response might be forthcoming but I’m no defender of the current set up.


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The Scottish government are currently sabotaging the Scottish economy based on data that so far is dubious. South Africa didn’t see massive hospitalisations, neither has Denmark and London seem to be coping fine. We were told cases would double every 2 days, that doesn’t appear to be happening.

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Originally Posted by HibsGW

In no way bigging up Douglas Ross here but he suggested this yesterday in parliament and they might as well have called him stupid, they (Nicola Sturgeon) basically just said no that would only lead to more people with coronavirus spreading it around.

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Five days is a long time in politics...

A quick thread on pertinent/justified media questions and coverage.

1/4

Dec 17 - Nicola Sturgeon asked about cutting self-isolation time. Reply: “Yeah, that would really help because that would spread infection even further.”

Dec 22 - John Swinney says self-isolation changes being considered.

2/4 https://t.co/Pi7QYwG020

Dec 17 - Nicola Sturgeon ridicules idea of finding more business support cash from her Budget in answer to Press Q. “I don't know where you think I should take it from? The health service?"

Dec 21 - Ms Sturgeon announces “a further £100 million from elsewhere in our budget”

3/4 https://t.co/qwjBk1prV9

Dec 18 - Nicola Sturgeon rubbishes Herald on Sunday front page about recall of parliament between Christmas New Year. Prompts 5.3k likes, accusations of "media lies", "bull****", etc

Dec 21 - It’s confirmed Parliament is to be recalled between Christmas and New Year

4/4 https://t.co/XuwGpsiAnD

https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/stat...q3vgj3OlA&s=19