Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lyonhibs

Is it just me or is that deal - relative to what it could have been - a relatively spawny, weaseled deal in favour of Hearts? Could HMRC not just have gone, "right, roond yeez, £1.75 million before this tax year ends" or similar.

Still, given as they are effectively starting each season on -£500,000 before a penny in wages, overheads, servicing the Vladdebt etc is paid, the future is far from rosy for our pink chums.

---

"Roon yez" would've resulted in £0 for Hector as they'd have gone straight to the liquidiser and Vlad's securities would keep all the asset value. I think they have spawned it a wee bit but it's still another big chain on their ankles.

I think best case for them is they'll be sold to some no-mark for a few million with the UBIG debt written off, this liability still in place, UBIG owning Tiny and charging £1M a season, the rent to pay at Riccarton, the repair bills for their crumbling stand, etc, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andrew70

From May 2013 they'll pay back £42000 a month. Surely this is just delaying the inevitable!? Hoping to find a buyer but when that's not forthcoming what will they do?

---

HOPE THEY DIE ON MAY 19TH:thumbsup:

Also any potential buyer will need to pay rent to Vlad the Hibee every month for the stadium as he aint going to hand it over, mmm im sure he wont be wanting too much ;0)

So huge debts and no assets!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lyonhibs

Is it just me or is that deal - relative to what it could have been - a relatively spawny, weaseled deal in favour of Hearts? Could HMRC not just have gone, "right, roond yeez, £1.75 million before this tax year ends" or similar.

Still, given as they are effectively starting each season on -£500,000 before a penny in wages, overheads, servicing the Vladdebt etc is paid, the future is far from rosy for our pink chums.

---

Not really. HMRC aren't daft. They would have got zip if they'd played that game.

This way, there is a chance that they will get some of that money.... and they also have the moral high ground of having been seen to help preserve jobs and future revenue for the Treasury.

Can anyone find the quote from hearts that said they would fight the tax case as hard as possible.

Now they are pleased to announce they lay back and took it.

So presumably they will be under pressure to pay all remaining tax and VAT on time? The amount paid yesterday - was that a previous bill? They must be due to pay another one soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

So presumably they will be under pressure to pay all remaining tax and VAT on time? The amount paid yesterday - was that a previous bill? They must be due to pay another one soon.

---

They are probably already late with the October PAYE, which was due on 22nd November.

This seems like a bad result for them but they are delighted on kickback.
At £42,000 a month it is equivalent to 3 top earners at Hibs or Aberdeen. With all their other liabilities including maintenance on their decrepit stadium and their smaller turnover they will be crippled for years.
And I still don't think they will make it to the end of the season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They are probably already late with the October PAYE, which was due on 22nd November.

---

So another winding up petition in the offing? Seems to be the only way to get them to pay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

So another winding up petition in the offing? Seems to be the only way to get them to pay.

---

Eh, No. They'll just negotiate a new settlement date with HMRC as usual. While everyone else pays on time.

Pathetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveF

Eh, No. They'll just negotiate a new settlement date with HMRC as usual. While everyone else pays on time.

Pathetic.

---

Which is good tactics by HMRC. Again, forcing Hearts into insolvency does them no good. The tactics employed by HMRC have, thus far, ensured that HMFC have kept (almost) up to date with their liabilities to the taxpayer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

And yes, they're tax dodgers that got caught.

---

In their rocket-surgeon minds all this will do is confirm them as a global brand like Starbucks or Amazon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Which is good tactics by HMRC. Again, forcing Hearts into insolvency does them no good. The tactics employed by HMRC have, thus far, ensured that HMFC have kept (almost) up to date with their liabilities to the taxpayer.

---

Aye that's all very well ------------- but it's not the really good news that we were all hoping for.

:devil:

There will still be more twists and turns in this saga yet. Hearts may see this as a good thing and to be honest it could of been worse, but at the end of the day thats just more debt they have racked up. They still have to pay all their players last months wages, this months will be due in a couple of weeks and also PAYE for October, November and December before they will surely try to cut the wage bill in January. And in May next year they will have 0.5 million to pay hector. All this at a time when their team are doing ***** and look like they could be serious candidates for relegation especially if they lose some of their better players next month.

In summary the good times are over for them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

There will still be more twists and turns in this saga yet. Hearts may see this as a good thing and to be honest it could of been worse, but at the end of the day thats just more debt they have racked up. They still have to pay all their players last months wages, this months will be due in a couple of weeks and also PAYE for October, November and December before they will surely try to cut the wage bill in January. And in May next year they will have 0.5 million to pay hector. All this at a time when their team are doing ***** and look like they could be serious candidates for relegation especially if they lose some of their better players next month.

In summary the good times are over for them

---

and they cannae afford tae sack uncle fester :thumbsup:

Doesn't seem like HMRC tactics with tax avoiders. Reduce the amount and agree payment plan? Stinks of back room political interference.

Now that Hearts have this extra £.5m per year on top of the tax they struggle to pay at moment what will happen next time they default?

And hopefully some of their other creditors will see this as a good time to get their final demands in.

I can understand no one wanting to be the one responsible for their liquidation but bills have to be paid. There will be gas, electricity, our Council's Business Rates and Rent, and all the rest in the in-tray.

The phones will be ringing at the PBS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Doesn't seem like HMRC tactics with tax avoiders. Reduce the amount and agree payment plan? Stinks of back room political interference.

Now that Hearts have this extra £.5m per year on top of the tax they struggle to pay at moment what will happen next time they default?

---

Too right it does. Seems like Fat Eck has done the trick after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

and they cannae afford tae sack uncle fester :thumbsup:

---

Why would they want to? He' certainly my favourite Hearts manager for a long time, i'm sure most hibees would agree :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Doesn't seem like HMRC tactics with tax avoiders. Reduce the amount and agree payment plan? Stinks of back room political interference.

Now that Hearts have this extra £.5m per year on top of the tax they struggle to pay at moment what will happen next time they default?

---

think it stinks too!

I guess they will just extend the period to allow for payments.

They also have wages deferred. Any other company would be liquidated surely. Cant pay there employees nor taxes on time... payment plans and deferrals, jeez.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

Why would they want to? He' certainly my favourite Hearts manager for a long time, i'm sure most hibees would agree :wink:

---

I think he's doing a grand job :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

There will still be more twists and turns in this saga yet. Hearts may see this as a good thing and to be honest it could of been worse, but at the end of the day thats just more debt they have racked up. They still have to pay all their players last months wages, this months will be due in a couple of weeks and also PAYE for October, November and December before they will surely try to cut the wage bill in January. And in May next year they will have 0.5 million to pay hector. All this at a time when their team are doing ***** and look like they could be serious candidates for relegation especially if they lose some of their better players next month.

In summary the good times are over for them

---

Which is the amount they are due from Sevco as the final instalment of the Templeton transfer. Were HMRC mindful of this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

think it stinks too!

I guess they will just extend the period to allow for payments.

They also have wages deferred. Any other company would be liquidated surely. Cant pay there employees nor taxes on time... payment plans and deferrals, jeez.

---

Would you prefer that the taxpayer got nothing, and that staff went on the dole? Because that would have been the case had HMRC not adopted the approach they have.

In recent years, HMRC have been much smarter in cases like this.... keep the patient alive, whilst taking their pound of flesh, instead of shutting them down and getting nothing, whilst costing the State in benefits. That's a result of two things..1. a more commercially aware attitude on their part. 2. the removal of their status as preferred creditor in liquidations.

Make no mistake, this is an excellent result for Hearts regarding their tax case.

To have it reduced from (potentially) over £2m to only £1.5m, and 3 years to pay it off is a huge step towards them being able to make it to the end of the season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

With all their other liabilities including maintenance on their decrepit stadium and their smaller turnover they will be crippled for years.

---

This is the main aspect of their financial troubles.

You just need to spend a couple of minutes doing the sums and you will see that, probably by the start of next season, they will have to survive on a player budget similar to the teams at the lower end of the SPL.

If, as he states, Vlad is no longer going to fund Hearts and they need to work within their financial restraints, then a potential annual debt liability of £2m (interest charges, debt servicing, tax liabilities, etc.) is a huge chunk off their potential wage pot. And that's not including the issues with the main stand, which seems to be causing further financial concern at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Would you prefer that the taxpayer got nothing, and that staff went on the dole? Because that would have been the case had HMRC not adopted the approach they have.

In recent years, HMRC have been much smarter in cases like this.... keep the patient alive, whilst taking their pound of flesh, instead of shutting them down and getting nothing, whilst costing the State in benefits. That's a result of two things..1. a more commercially aware attitude on their part. 2. the removal of their status as preferred creditor in liquidations.

---

I'll be perfectly honest in answer tae that if I may. Wouldnae have bothered me in the slightest, I wanted tae see that club squashed. No sure how much they will see anyway, they cannae pay what they have tae now, I dinnae ken why anybody thinks they'll now be able tae pay mair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Would you prefer that the taxpayer got nothing, and that staff went on the dole? Because that would have been the case had HMRC not adopted the approach they have.

---

What, so there would have been redundancies at HMRC because they didn't agree to this deal? I hate to think how many lay off's there will be due to the avoidance of Starbuck's, Google et al........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveF

What, so there would have been redundancies at HMRC because they didn't agree to this deal? I hate to think how many lay off's there will be due to the avoidance of Starbuck's, Google et al........

---

i suspect he means job loses at the wongadome

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveF

What, so there would have been redundancies at HMRC because they didn't agree to this deal? I hate to think how many lay off's there will be due to the avoidance of Starbuck's, Google et al........

---

I didn't say that.

Had HMRC put the company under, there would have been redundancies at HMFC. Those non-playing staff who couldn't find other jobs would have to go on benefits.

Double-whammy for us. No tax income, and benefits expense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

I'll be perfectly honest in answer tae that if I may. Wouldnae have bothered me in the slightest, I wanted tae see that club squashed. No sure how much they will see anyway, they cannae pay what they have tae now, I dinnae ken why anybody thinks they'll now be able tae pay mair.

---

... and that's the nub of the arguments on here. There is the emotional response, which is that we all want to see them suffer or die; that's what football rivalry is about. There is also the "greater-good" argument, which is about social responsibility.

Both are valid, IMO.

their only hope of getting back to being a competitive force again any time soon is to slash the wage bill in january and again in the summer and hope that they can stay in the spl and develop saleable assets- ie paterson walker, mchattie etc. Long shot really as although they're promising players their development isn't going to be helped by being played every week with fewer experienced players in the squad to help bring them on. that kind of pressure isnt good for the confidence of young players. I think their chances of a golden generation are low and that they're going to be screwed for a good few seasons at least. i bet they still won't learn their lesson though. nae luck jambos:na na:

It will be interesting to see what they do with their high wage earners. Common sense would say that they have to shift them from the club in January, no matter what transfer fee they get. They also cannot take the risk of playing these players during January, for fear that they get injured and have the triple whammy of no transfer fee, paying high wage earners not to play and medical bills.

I could not understand why they didn't get rid of them during last season's January window.

Looks like it is a weakened Hertz team in the SPL (or lower) for years to come. Result!