Brexit - What Now.

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Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby

https://twitter.com/AlynSmith/status...54520554541056

Somebody might want to point out to Alyn Smith that we've already left the EU. It's a vote between deal or no deal, not between deal v EU membership as he is bizarrely trying to claim.

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It will sail through as the right wing xenophobes have an 80 seat majority. Those voting against or abstaining are basically saying this is on you and we are not complicit. Labour will be complicit by voting for it. There is no need to whip for an acceptance. Labour are ****ing pathetic

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Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby

https://twitter.com/AlynSmith/status...54520554541056

Somebody might want to point out to Alyn Smith that we've already left the EU. It's a vote between deal or no deal, not between deal v EU membership as he is bizarrely trying to claim.

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... or is it a procedural vote that will have no effect on whether the Westminster Government are able to sign the trade deal but does give room for political backslapping

https://twitter.com/lukecooper100/st...318078465?s=21


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Originally Posted by greenlex

It’s what they thought they were promised. Cake and eat it? What’s not to like.?

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I'm still waiting on Bozo to promise us cakes, even a battenburg would be a step in the right direction at this stage, didn't he say something about levelling the country up recently?

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Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

I'm still waiting on Bozo to promise us cakes, even a battenburg would be a step in the right direction at this stage, didn't he say something about levelling the country up recently?

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Levelling up most certainly does not mean Scotland. Luckily for us, it’s an empty promise anyway.


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https://www.cer.eu/insights/ten-refl...y-first-brexit


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Levelling up most certainly does not mean Scotland. Luckily for us, it’s an empty promise anyway.


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I think he's more likely to be actually levelling most of the North of England many of whom were attracted by the soundbites.

Scotland sadly could be collateral damage as he has no feel for the country, nor do the third rate folk who represent his goverment in Scotland.



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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Levelling up most certainly does not mean Scotland. Luckily for us, it’s an empty promise anyway.


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That's good news for munro baggers. 😉

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Not according to the Scottish Fishing Industry.

Where are you getting your information?

Andrew Locker, chairman of the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, said they would be “absolutely worse off” as a result of the deal.

When Boris Johnson and his Government promised Brexit to the fishermen he promised none of us would be worse off

Andrew Locker, National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations
“I am angry, disappointed and betrayed. Boris Johnson promised us the rights to all the fish that swim in our exclusive economic zone and we have got a fraction of that,” he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.

“We are absolutely worse off. When we were within the EU we used to trade fish with the EU. We used to swap things we didn’t use with fish that they didn’t use and that enabled us to put together an annual fishing plan.

“What we have got now is a fraction of what we were promised through Brexit. We are going to really, really struggle this year.

“When Boris Johnson and his Government promised Brexit to the fishermen he promised none of us would be worse off. There is a considerable amount of fishermen – small families, small communities – absolutely worse off by this deal.”

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Fair enough, I'm not going to claim I know more than him. It just seems to me when reading this breakdown of the how the fishing programme will be phased in that it ultimately leaves our fishing fleets in a significantly stronger position:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465081

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Labour and Tories with joint messaging today that the SNP is the party of ‘no deal’. Apart from the obvious embarrassment at their apparent merger, do they really think that this will cut through with the electorate and people will start to believe the SNP want a no deal brexit?


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Am I right in thinking that if this vote were to fail, then we'd leave the EU with no deal? That being the case what is the SNP's vote to reject the deal meant to signify?

If they don't want to be accused of backing no deal they'd be better just abstaining.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

Am I right in thinking that if this vote were to fail, then we'd leave the EU with no deal? That being the case what is the SNP's vote to reject the deal meant to signify?

If they don't want to be accused of backing no deal they'd be better just abstaining.

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If the vote fails then the UK govt would have a decision to make. That’s not on whoever votes against the bill.


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Originally Posted by G B Young

Am I right in thinking that if this vote were to fail, then we'd leave the EU with no deal? That being the case what is the SNP's vote to reject the deal meant to signify?

If they don't want to be accused of backing no deal they'd be better just abstaining.

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You know as well as everyone else that the vote will be won by the Tories regardless of how any other party votes. They have an 80 seat majority. This is about saying that the whole **** show that will follow is the fault of the Tories and them alone. It seems that all other parties except the Labour party are either voting against or abstaining. The truly pathetic Labour party are trying to win back voters by following the Tories rather than by doing something different.

https://twitter.com/antonspisak/stat...416362498?s=21

Thread worth a read.


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Also remember when it was apparently that a no deal was better than a bad deal? Right now no one ****ing knows how the deal will end up as they have had about 5 minutes to read 1200+ pages of detail.

jan 15,2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpQfoWGIDRg

Did anyone see the interview with the guy who owned a glass eel farm/factory on Sky News yesterday? His eels were exported exclusively to the EU and his business was now on the verge of collapse.

He said "I might have voted differently in the referendum if I'd known that Brexit might cost jobs or even my business".

Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Did anyone see the interview with the guy who owned a glass eel farm/factory on Sky News yesterday? His eels were exported exclusively to the EU and his business was now on the verge of collapse.

He said "I might have voted differently in the referendum if I'd known that Brexit might cost jobs or even my business".

Seriously?

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What was probably needed was some sort of 3 word slogan on the side of a bus so we knew exactly what was being voted for.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Did anyone see the interview with the guy who owned a glass eel farm/factory on Sky News yesterday? His eels were exported exclusively to the EU and his business was now on the verge of collapse.

He said "I might have voted differently in the referendum if I'd known that Brexit might cost jobs or even my business".

Seriously?

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It’s incredible that someone can be clever enough to run a successful business and at the same time be so stupid not to realise that cutting off his main source of income might be a bad idea. The mind boggles.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

It’s incredible that someone can be clever enough to run a successful business and at the same time be so stupid not to realise that cutting off his main source of income might be a bad idea. The mind boggles.

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For a lot of people Brexit wasn't an intellectual choice, it was more an emotional response. So when guys like the above see the Union Jack being waved or hears some ancient English war dirge being sung any actual thinking just goes straight out the window, especially if a toff is delivering the message.

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Originally Posted by Kato

For a lot of people Brexit wasn't an intellectual choice, it was more an emotional response. So when guys like the above see the Union Jack being waved or hears some ancient English war dirge being sung any actual thinking just goes straight out the window, especially if a toff is delivering the message.

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And when the music stops and the flags are put away they’ll reap what they’ve sown.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

And when the music stops and the flags are put away they’ll reap what they’ve sown.

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That penny has dropped with quite a few people since the vote. For those that are embarrassed by it some just double down and some just refuse to admit their mistake. However for a lot of people the flag waving is the whole point.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

Fair enough, I'm not going to claim I know more than him. It just seems to me when reading this breakdown of the how the fishing programme will be phased in that it ultimately leaves our fishing fleets in a significantly stronger position:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465081

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Take a wee look at this. It might save you from having a go at the CFP next time. :wink:

https://t.co/9GbVMNK5Hz?amp=1

Scotland’s fishing sector adversely impacted by exit agreement.

The Brexit fisheries deal negotiated by the UK Government will mean a fall in the quantity of key fishing stocks landed by the Scottish fleet, according to Scottish Government analysis.

Scotland’s valuable staple fish stocks include Cod, Haddock, Whiting and Saithe. Far from having substantial increased opportunities in the future, the Scottish industry will have access to fewer of these fish than under the existing Common Fisheries Policy arrangements – even at the end of the five and half year phase-in period, according to the analysis.

These are the white fish stocks that a significant part of Scotland’s family-owned fishing fleet is dependent upon for their livelihoods and the shares even in five and a half years’ time, will still be less than their equivalents now. This also has a potential knock on effect for harbours, fish markets and processors – fewer fish caught means fewer being landed and sold on for processing in facilities all around Scotland.

Cod and Saithe landings will be hit particularly hard.

Pelagic landings (such as mackerel and herring) and some other stocks will see a modest gain.

At present Scottish boats land fish by a variety of means:

by catching quota that has been allocated to the Scottish industry
by leasing extra quota from other producers that cannot or do not want to fish as much as they have been allocated for a particular stock
by swapping quotas of fish that we have and still need but other countries want more of
Leasing and swapping quota is required to allow vessels to operate legally in very complex mixed fisheries in the northern waters of the Scottish fishing zone.

Under the Brexit deal, the swapping of quotas with individual member states will no longer be allowed and leasing will be prohibitively expensive, reducing the quantity of fish in key stocks available for the Scottish industry to land.

The amount of fish caught by the Scottish industry will also fall because a special scheme (called the Hague Preference) which gave Scottish boats extra quota has also been lost under the Brexit deal. An entitlement that was used every year and is a further loss of fishing quotas valued at over £9 million.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Take a wee look at this. It might save you from having a go at the CFP next time. :wink:

https://t.co/9GbVMNK5Hz?amp=1

Scotland’s fishing sector adversely impacted by exit agreement.

The Brexit fisheries deal negotiated by the UK Government will mean a fall in the quantity of key fishing stocks landed by the Scottish fleet, according to Scottish Government analysis.

Scotland’s valuable staple fish stocks include Cod, Haddock, Whiting and Saithe. Far from having substantial increased opportunities in the future, the Scottish industry will have access to fewer of these fish than under the existing Common Fisheries Policy arrangements – even at the end of the five and half year phase-in period, according to the analysis.

These are the white fish stocks that a significant part of Scotland’s family-owned fishing fleet is dependent upon for their livelihoods and the shares even in five and a half years’ time, will still be less than their equivalents now. This also has a potential knock on effect for harbours, fish markets and processors – fewer fish caught means fewer being landed and sold on for processing in facilities all around Scotland.

Cod and Saithe landings will be hit particularly hard.

Pelagic landings (such as mackerel and herring) and some other stocks will see a modest gain.

At present Scottish boats land fish by a variety of means:

by catching quota that has been allocated to the Scottish industry
by leasing extra quota from other producers that cannot or do not want to fish as much as they have been allocated for a particular stock
by swapping quotas of fish that we have and still need but other countries want more of
Leasing and swapping quota is required to allow vessels to operate legally in very complex mixed fisheries in the northern waters of the Scottish fishing zone.

Under the Brexit deal, the swapping of quotas with individual member states will no longer be allowed and leasing will be prohibitively expensive, reducing the quantity of fish in key stocks available for the Scottish industry to land.

The amount of fish caught by the Scottish industry will also fall because a special scheme (called the Hague Preference) which gave Scottish boats extra quota has also been lost under the Brexit deal. An entitlement that was used every year and is a further loss of fishing quotas valued at over £9 million.

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I could be wrong, but was the Scottish (and UK) fishing industry not generally pro-Brexit at the time of the referendum? Pretty astonishing given that Scotland's vast fishing grounds (?) were always going to be one of the first things sacrificed by the Westminster government when trying to iron out a deal.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

I could be wrong, but was the Scottish (and UK) fishing industry not generally pro-Brexit at the time of the referendum? Pretty astonishing given that Scotland's vast fishing grounds (?) were always going to be one of the first things sacrificed by the Westminster government when trying to iron out a deal.

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Think they were, but again they were promised the world would be better for them post Brexit. Like many people who voted for it , they’ve been lied to and duped.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

I could be wrong, but was the Scottish (and UK) fishing industry not generally pro-Brexit at the time of the referendum? Pretty astonishing given that Scotland's vast fishing grounds (?) were always going to be one of the first things sacrificed by the Westminster government when trying to iron out a deal.

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Very much so:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-eu-referendum

Probably played a part in the number of Scottish Tory seats won at the 2017 election.

Also mentioned in that article:

While many parts of Scotland voted heavily in favour of the EU, Moray came within 122 votes of backing leave at the referendum. Across Scotland, it is estimated that about 30% of SNP voters supported the leave campaign – the largest anti-EU group in the country.

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Originally Posted by bigwheel

Think they were, but again they were promised the world would be better for them post Brexit. Like many people who voted for it , they’ve been lied to and duped.

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I'm not an economist, nor am I particularly politically astute, but even I could see what was going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

I could be wrong, but was the Scottish (and UK) fishing industry not generally pro-Brexit at the time of the referendum? Pretty astonishing given that Scotland's vast fishing grounds (?) were always going to be one of the first things sacrificed by the Westminster government when trying to iron out a deal.

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Yes they were. Shafted by the Tories time and again, but still go back for more.

They probably thought the EU would roll over and they'd be able to fish as many fish as they wanted.

Interesting responses to pro Brexit voters on here - the English eel farmer can reap what he sows but the Scottish Fisheries Industry were lied to/duped/shafted.

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Originally Posted by stantonhibby

Interesting responses to pro Brexit voters on here - the English eel farmer can reap what he sows but the Scottish Fisheries Industry were lied to/duped/shafted.

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The Scottish fishermen can reap what they sow as well. They have been conned by the Tories so many times that the blame cannot be put on the Tories anymore.


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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Take a wee look at this. It might save you from having a go at the CFP next time. :wink:

https://t.co/9GbVMNK5Hz?amp=1

Scotland’s fishing sector adversely impacted by exit agreement.

The Brexit fisheries deal negotiated by the UK Government will mean a fall in the quantity of key fishing stocks landed by the Scottish fleet, according to Scottish Government analysis.

Scotland’s valuable staple fish stocks include Cod, Haddock, Whiting and Saithe. Far from having substantial increased opportunities in the future, the Scottish industry will have access to fewer of these fish than under the existing Common Fisheries Policy arrangements – even at the end of the five and half year phase-in period, according to the analysis.

These are the white fish stocks that a significant part of Scotland’s family-owned fishing fleet is dependent upon for their livelihoods and the shares even in five and a half years’ time, will still be less than their equivalents now. This also has a potential knock on effect for harbours, fish markets and processors – fewer fish caught means fewer being landed and sold on for processing in facilities all around Scotland.

Cod and Saithe landings will be hit particularly hard.

Pelagic landings (such as mackerel and herring) and some other stocks will see a modest gain.

At present Scottish boats land fish by a variety of means:

by catching quota that has been allocated to the Scottish industry
by leasing extra quota from other producers that cannot or do not want to fish as much as they have been allocated for a particular stock
by swapping quotas of fish that we have and still need but other countries want more of
Leasing and swapping quota is required to allow vessels to operate legally in very complex mixed fisheries in the northern waters of the Scottish fishing zone.

Under the Brexit deal, the swapping of quotas with individual member states will no longer be allowed and leasing will be prohibitively expensive, reducing the quantity of fish in key stocks available for the Scottish industry to land.

The amount of fish caught by the Scottish industry will also fall because a special scheme (called the Hague Preference) which gave Scottish boats extra quota has also been lost under the Brexit deal. An entitlement that was used every year and is a further loss of fishing quotas valued at over £9 million.

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Thanks.

I don't think I'm wrong though in suggesting that the CFP is far from beloved by the UK fishing industry?

As for the current row over fishing I'll be surprised if there isn't a good deal of political manoeuvering and compromise/compensation to come.

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Originally Posted by bigwheel

Think they were, but again they were promised the world would be better for them post Brexit. Like many people who voted for it , they’ve been lied to and duped.

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Yup, all the fish in UK waters would be exclusive to UK fishermen, and obviously the foreign boats that had bought UK licences from them.

With the easiest negotiations in history who'd have thought those pesky EU folk could slam huge tariffs on our exports and decimate their market.

It's as though the fisherfolk were too thick to think things through never mind the despicable lying torys.