Brexit - What Now.

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Originally Posted by heretoday

I voted Remain but Brexit is here and we may as well make the best of it. Both sides seem satisfied enough so the end of the world as we know it has been averted.

I feel sorry for folk who wanted to live, work or study in Europe without hindrance. And we're all going to need more visas, insurance, paperwork etc to holiday or drive abroad, but I can remember when we weren't even in the Common Market and we got on OK, did we not?

Wait and see. Brexit might be OK after a disruptive period. Of course that may not suit those of us who clearly want it to fail for their own reasons.

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I don't really understand the "make the best of it" train of thought

Is that code for just accept what we have been served up even if it is far worse than what we were promised?

We have ended up with a very hard Brexit - out of CU and SM

It only appears more palatable because its pitched against the no deal cliff edge

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The UK (as it is just now) is about to become the world's leader in money laundering.

It will be swilling about in the dregs for everything else.

With an incompetent and corrupt government, the UK is in for an even rougher year than 2020. The whole process seems to have strengthened EU unity and weakened the UK's. Good results as far as I can see.

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

I don't really understand the "make the best of it" train of thought

Is that code for just accept what we have been served up even if it is far worse than what we were promised?

We have ended up with a very hard Brexit - out of CU and SM

It only appears more palatable because its pitched against the no deal cliff edge

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Blame for being out of the CU and SM has to be shared. The remain campaigners have to accept that their failure to accept the result of the referendum and pursue a soft brexit instead has contributed to the hard brexit we now have.


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Originally Posted by Callum_62

I don't really understand the "make the best of it" train of thought

Is that code for just accept what we have been served up even if it is far worse than what we were promised?

We have ended up with a very hard Brexit - out of CU and SM

It only appears more palatable because its pitched against the no deal cliff edge

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Hmm not really as we were not promised anything apart from leaving the EU.

All the prophesying on this thread about how no deal was the plan all along was just plain wrong. No surprise then to see many flip to immediately saying this deal is baaad even when the detail is unknown.

We’ll also have to await to see if the suggestions of hyper inflation and recession next year are as accurate as the assertions of the no deal plan all along ones.

I get being part of the EU came with open market access and many other alleged benefits but it also came with the many compromises that being part of a bloc of so many countries with such disparate needs and wants brought.

Even the fabled free movement of labour wrought significant influence over the type and shape of the UK economy (who can forget the only ‘tens of thousands’ promise of the outcome of opening up to the eastern bloc countries).

The balance may have been more good than bad and the future balance may be more bad than good but neither is anywhere near as clear cut nor certain as the majority on this thread (or for that matter Boris and his cohort) make out.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Hmm not really as we were not promised anything apart from leaving the EU.

All the prophesying on this thread about how no deal was the plan all along was just plain wrong. No surprise then to see many flip to immediately saying this deal is baaad even when the detail is unknown.

We’ll also have to await to see if the suggestions of hyper inflation and recession next year are as accurate as the assertions of the no deal plan all along ones.

I get being part of the EU came with open market access and many other alleged benefits but it also came with the many compromises that being part of a bloc of so many countries with such disparate needs and wants brought.

Even the fabled free movement of labour wrought significant influence over the type and shape of the UK economy (who can forget the only ‘tens of thousands’ promise of the outcome of opening up to the eastern bloc countries).

The balance may have been more good than bad and the future balance may be more bad than good but neither is anywhere near as clear cut nor certain as the majority on this thread (or for that matter Boris and his cohort) make out.

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I believe we were promised the same benefits, no downsides

I obvisouly didn't belive and then and I sure as hell don't believe it now

We are where we are though, I'm no trade expert but the thing that bothers me the most is my daughter has lost the chance to freely live and work in a big chunk of the world

That's a real shame imho

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Hmm not really as we were not promised anything apart from leaving the EU.

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Were you on Mars in 2016?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I really don’t have much sympathy for the SFF. Quite happy to get themselves right and stuff the rest of the industry.

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Their voice is bigger than their importance to the economy. 0.1% according to the BBC.

But tell that to the many communities that fishing sustains, especially in Scotland.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I really don’t have much sympathy for the SFF. Quite happy to get themselves right and stuff the rest of the industry.

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Agreed. It's mostly posturing because they didn't get the fantasy deal of exclusive rights to waters off the UK. Yes, having voted in big numbers for Brexit they would have hoped for a bit better, but it's still a decent deal for them and one which will improve over time.

Laughable to see the SNP seize on this 'betrayal' bearing in mind their stance on the Common Fisheries Policy.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

Agreed. It's mostly posturing because they didn't get the fantasy deal of exclusive rights to waters off the UK. Yes, having voted in big numbers for Brexit they would have hoped for a bit better, but it's still a decent deal for them and one which will improve over time.

Laughable to see the SNP seize on this 'betrayal' bearing in mind their stance on the Common Fisheries Policy.

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It's also laughable to see that tweet from Carlaw regarding Erasmus but you have probably just missed it 🙂

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Originally Posted by G B Young

Agreed. It's mostly posturing because they didn't get the fantasy deal of exclusive rights to waters off the UK. Yes, having voted in big numbers for Brexit they would have hoped for a bit better, but it's still a decent deal for them and one which will improve over time.

Laughable to see the SNP seize on this 'betrayal' bearing in mind their stance on the Common Fisheries Policy.

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That’s what the Tories promised them though. Just because their betrayal was totally predictable does not make it any less real.


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Originally Posted by G B Young

Agreed. It's mostly posturing because they didn't get the fantasy deal of exclusive rights to waters off the UK. Yes, having voted in big numbers for Brexit they would have hoped for a bit better, but it's still a decent deal for them and one which will improve over time.

Laughable to see the SNP seize on this 'betrayal' bearing in mind their stance on the Common Fisheries Policy.

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Do you have any idea what their stance is, given you seem to think it's laughable?

Nicola Sturgeon is to "ask" the UK GOV if Scotland can remain part of the Eurasmus scheme.

Will she get an answer.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

Agreed. It's mostly posturing because they didn't get the fantasy deal of exclusive rights to waters off the UK. Yes, having voted in big numbers for Brexit they would have hoped for a bit better, but it's still a decent deal for them and one which will improve over time.

Laughable to see the SNP seize on this 'betrayal' bearing in mind their stance on the Common Fisheries Policy.

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In what way is it decent, compared with what was promised by the torys, and how do you think it will improve?

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Do you have any idea what their stance is, given you seem to think it's laughable?

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It’s a rather opaque one is it not...

SNP.org talks about a fair deal and campaigning for huge reform or scrapping of the CFP and at the same time full control within Scotland of fisheries.

None of which would, of course, be remotely possible within the EU.

So I’m really none the wiser of what, in practical terms, their stance actually is...happy for you enlighten further beyond the muddled jumble above.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

It’s a rather opaque one is it not...

SNP.org talks about a fair deal and campaigning for huge reform or scrapping of the CFP and at the same time full control within Scotland of fisheries.

None of which would, of course, be remotely possible within the EU.

So I’m really none the wiser of what, in practical terms, their stance actually is...happy for you enlighten further beyond the muddled jumble above.

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You can’t reform the EU? Surely that is not true?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

You can’t reform the EU? Surely that is not true?


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Dunno why you are quoting my post when making that statement.

I said that the scrapping of the CFP and Scotland having complete control of fishing would be not be remotely possible within the EU. All of which appear to be stated aims of the SNP.

As I said of someone wants to clarify how those aims can be reconciled to any clear practical outcome I’m more than happy to listen.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan;6396071[B

]It’s a rather opaque one is it not[/B]...

SNP.org talks about a fair deal and campaigning for huge reform or scrapping of the CFP and at the same time full control within Scotland of fisheries.

None of which would, of course, be remotely possible within the EU.

So I’m really none the wiser of what, in practical terms, their stance actually is...happy for you enlighten further beyond the muddled jumble above.

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I'd say changeable. :wink: Reform of the CFP would be a good start, as it's part of the policy. :aok:

I was hoping that GBY was going to enlighten us, and give us all a laugh.

Fishing is supposed to be devolved, and as such the Scottish ministers should have been involved in the talks regarding the subject, but it's always been something that the UK GOV can't let go. They even preferred an English Lord at the table negotiating whilst we were in the EU. Kept the silly jocks on the side lines again.

Now that they've rail roaded the Internal market bill through the commons, it looks like the UK government want to take control.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

I'd say changeable. :wink: Reform of the CFP would be a good start, as it's part of the policy. :aok:

I was hoping that GBY was going to enlighten us, and give us all a laugh.

Fishing is supposed to be devolved, and as such the Scottish ministers should have been involved in the talks regarding the subject, but it's always been something that the UK GOV can't let go. They even preferred an English Lord at the table negotiating whilst we were in the EU. Kept the silly jocks on the side lines again.

Now that they've rail roaded the Internal market bill through the commons, it looks like the UK government want to take control.

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Just spotted this :-)

It just seems to me rich that the SNP are bemoaning a deal which improves the lot of the Scottish fishing industry yet their own policy would be to remain wedded to a policy which Scottish fisherman have long claimed is putting their livelihoods under threat.

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Originally Posted by G B Young

It just seems to me rich that the SNP are bemoaning a deal which improves the lot of the Scottish fishing industry yet their own policy would be to remain wedded to a policy which Scottish fisherman have long claimed is putting their livelihoods under threat.

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Andrew Locker, the director of the family-run business Lockers Trawlers, which operates two fishing boats out of Peterhead in Aberdeenshire, said 2021 was going to be challenging for many who worked on the North Sea because the system of quota swapping was being lost.

“I don’t know how the hell we’re going to get through 2021,” he said. “We used to swap quota we didn’t want with quota the French or Germans didn’t want and that enabled us to put together an annual fishing plan.

“This year we’re going to be woefully short of the amount of saithe, hake and cod we can catch. I’m angry, disappointed and betrayed.”

Elspeth Macdonald, the chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, said she did not believe the deal delivered what had been promised.

She said: “The principles that the government said it supported – control over access, quota shares based on zonal attachment, annual negotiations – do not appear to be central to the agreement. After all the promises given to the industry, that is hugely disappointing.”

There is also concern about export of fish from the UK to mainland Europe. Tavish Scott, the chief executive of the Scottish Salmon Producers’ Organisation, said: “Brexit means the Scottish salmon sector now face the reality of lots more red tape, bureaucracy and paperwork which are the reality of the extra trade barriers.”

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Originally Posted by G B Young

Just spotted this :-)

It just seems to me rich that the SNP are bemoaning a deal which improves the lot of the Scottish fishing industry yet their own policy would be to remain wedded to a policy which Scottish fisherman have long claimed is putting their livelihoods under threat.

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Improves the lot of the Scottish fishing industry? Are you sure?


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Originally Posted by G B Young

Just spotted this :-)

It just seems to me rich that the SNP are bemoaning a deal which improves the lot of the Scottish fishing industry yet their own policy would be to remain wedded to a policy which Scottish fisherman have long claimed is putting their livelihoods under threat.

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Not according to the Scottish Fishing Industry.

Where are you getting your information?

Andrew Locker, chairman of the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, said they would be “absolutely worse off” as a result of the deal.

When Boris Johnson and his Government promised Brexit to the fishermen he promised none of us would be worse off

Andrew Locker, National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations
“I am angry, disappointed and betrayed. Boris Johnson promised us the rights to all the fish that swim in our exclusive economic zone and we have got a fraction of that,” he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.

“We are absolutely worse off. When we were within the EU we used to trade fish with the EU. We used to swap things we didn’t use with fish that they didn’t use and that enabled us to put together an annual fishing plan.

“What we have got now is a fraction of what we were promised through Brexit. We are going to really, really struggle this year.

“When Boris Johnson and his Government promised Brexit to the fishermen he promised none of us would be worse off. There is a considerable amount of fishermen – small families, small communities – absolutely worse off by this deal.”

https://jonworth.eu/on-the-brexit-de...-and-confused/


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://jonworth.eu/on-the-brexit-de...-and-confused/


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Thanks for that. :aok:

Labour and Tories with joint messaging today that the SNP is the party of ‘no deal’. Apart from the obvious embarrassment at their apparent merger, do they really think that this will cut through with the electorate and people will start to believe the SNP want a no deal brexit?


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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Not according to the Scottish Fishing Industry.

Where are you getting your information?

Andrew Locker, chairman of the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, said they would be “absolutely worse off” as a result of the deal.

When Boris Johnson and his Government promised Brexit to the fishermen he promised none of us would be worse off

Andrew Locker, National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations
“I am angry, disappointed and betrayed. Boris Johnson promised us the rights to all the fish that swim in our exclusive economic zone and we have got a fraction of that,” he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.

“We are absolutely worse off. When we were within the EU we used to trade fish with the EU. We used to swap things we didn’t use with fish that they didn’t use and that enabled us to put together an annual fishing plan.

“What we have got now is a fraction of what we were promised through Brexit. We are going to really, really struggle this year.

“When Boris Johnson and his Government promised Brexit to the fishermen he promised none of us would be worse off. There is a considerable amount of fishermen – small families, small communities – absolutely worse off by this deal.”

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It's almost as if they expect sole rights to fishing in UK waters but with permission to fish in EU waters and be able to sell their catch tariff free in the EU. The words having, eating and cake come to mind.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Labour and Tories with joint messaging today that the SNP is the party of ‘no deal’. Apart from the obvious embarrassment at their apparent merger, do they really think that this will cut through with the electorate and people will start to believe the SNP want a no deal brexit?


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Embaressing really isn't it

Are any other parties in the UK voting against it?

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https://twitter.com/AlynSmith/status...54520554541056

Somebody might want to point out to Alyn Smith that we've already left the EU. It's a vote between deal or no deal, not between deal v EU membership as he is bizarrely trying to claim.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

It's almost as if they expect sole rights to fishing in UK waters but with permission to fish in EU waters and be able to sell their catch tariff free in the EU. The words having, eating and cake come to mind.

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It’s what they thought they were promised. Cake and eat it? What’s not to like.?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Labour and Tories with joint messaging today that the SNP is the party of ‘no deal’. Apart from the obvious embarrassment at their apparent merger, do they really think that this will cut through with the electorate and people will start to believe the SNP want a no deal brexit?


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It's almost like the last 4 and a half years didn't happen.

The SNP laid motions in the Uk parliament ruling out a no deal "under any circumstances"

We lost the vote by 288 to 324 with several Labour MP's voting with the Tories. Quelle surprise.