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In a global pandemic where cases are increasing by more than 500,000 new infections a day lockdowns will be more commonplace. However it rips ma knittin that people describe what we have now in Scotland as a lockdown. Mild restrictions at best, even earlier this year it wasn't a full lockdown.
What influenced the decision is that West Lothian is still very high and NHS Lothian have a pool of beds. Therefore there was a risk that if we go up slightly and WL is yet to come down, there won't be enough bedsQuote:
Originally Posted by The Count
Fair point.Hibs will win in 90 minutes Glory Glory
Fair enough but it could seriously curtail our cup victory parade!🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by JOD
My excitement for today has just dampened opening this thread. Annoyed at myself.
The scot gov has been incredibly open and transparent on the reasons why tiers were selectedQuote:
Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs
Going over in detail on TV and also releasing all rationale on there website
The info is all there
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Some lower league games in England selling out
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-54704567
If fans are not alowed at Easter Road but they are in the Lowland League for example, who would you go to watch?Quote:
One club said it thought the interest stemmed from football being like a "Class A drug" for many supporters.
Yes, I’d go to as many games as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Science actually. Right now 46 million people have been confirmed to have this virus and every 72 hours the equivalent of a packed out Easter Road die from this virus. World Wide that figure is only rising. The measures being put in place here are slowing that rise but we are still being afforded a reasonable standard of life. If we all respect that there is a fair chance things will quickly get to Tier 2, 1 and hopefully zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Count
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Originally Posted by Juniper Greens
Its truly an awful state of affairs that Scottish people can't control their own borders or control their own finances in the midst of a global pandemic.
This really is one of the strangest countries and I really can't think of anywhere comparable anywhere in the world.
Somehow cases seem to be coming down though in Scotland and the 5 tier system does give at least some parts of rural Scotland a very good chance of some sort of normality with the central belt remaining in the balance.
I fear for the lower leagues though as they are going to struggle to complete their seasons and very surprisingly some of the Northern clubs ironically may have allowed fans in by then.
Based on last time, 250k people standing 2m apart on either side of the route means the parade will have to be over 150 miles long so it will need to start in Inverness.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee-boys
Their stadium to ours is 157 miles, so easy enough to plan.
Ross County granted government approval to admit 300 fans to Friday night’s Premiership game against Livingston.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Wonder what's happened today to change minds. Just a couple of hours ago this seemed dead in the water:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...r-fan-22955855
Happy to see progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Up to 4,000 fans allowed back into stadiums in England from 2nd December depending on what tier they are in.
Maximum of 4,000 in Tier 1
Maximum of 2,000 in Tier 2
Can’t even get 100 into a non league ground up here, chances of thousands anytime soon is extremely unlikely unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie
Ross County's had fans at their last two home games albeit nowhere near 4,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
300 I think. My point being that in England from tier 6 downwards fans have been allowed, whereas up here they still aren’t, so I wouldn’t trust us to be following England’s lead anytime soon on numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
I agree that we won't be following their lead. Fans can only return in level 0 and level 1 areas and at the moment that only applies to Ross County, Inverness and Elgin in terms of the 42 teams in the SPFL.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
Not bad, considering there are only 3 tiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
Not sure if I've missed the joke but I assume that means football tier. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I don't expect any fan news up here until we've started the vaccine roll out.
Might want to tell that to those in league 2 downwards that they aren’t playing for anything then..Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I wonder if the clubs will be that keen to have very small crowds allowed back in. I’m assuming it will be season ticket holders first with some sort of ballot so they won’t be generating any additional ticket revenue but will be required to cover additional policing/stewarding costs. Granted this might be offset by income collected at club shops, food kiosks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
I think he's referring to the Covid Restrictions Tiers, not the English Leagues.
I was quite clearly talking about the tiers of the English pyramid, seeing as there aren’t more than 6 Covid tiers. Fans in non league grounds in England below the national league have been allowed into grounds for months since they started back up. That’s not been the case up here which is a shambles, hence my point of us not following that route, so no chance of us following the 4000 or 50% route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
OK, I get you.
In which case, I'd just like to point out that England has an ELEVEN tier system.
I never said they didn’t? I actually think they have more tiers than 11, but could be wrong. My point was fans were allowed from tier 6 (I think) essentially out EOS leagues and below. There’s no reason why we never followed that based on the numbers attending and the space available to distance in a predominantly terraced/open area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Elgin are allowed fans and they have said that they're struggling to make this happen due to the available space.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
I can only assume that the distancing required in Scottish stadia is greater than it is in England and therefore not practical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
This might sound a bit stupid but, are the SG restricting fans to only use seated areas?
That would be a bit of a killer for the likes of Elgin, as they have just under 500 seats, so restricting it to a small percentage of that would be mean a miniscule number of fans
I don't think it is just seated areas that they're allowed to use, Elgin's chairman said this the other week;Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
"The limitations at Borough Briggs stadium may possibly preclude it, but we will move hell and high water to endeavour to make it happen because we desperately want it.
"It is going to be really difficult in our stadium because all the seats are taken up by the red and amber zones. Our green zones, where fans could go, are the two ends and the far side and that may be the problem with access and social distancing when moving round."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...tball/54823753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
Thanks. So they basically have no available seats.
The quote from the Elgin Chairman did actually highlight the problem. When you have people standing, and probably milling around, it's not nearly as easy to ensure the minimum distance is being kept as it would be with designated seating.
Yeah, people I know who went to some English lower league games a few months ago said some were standing spread out but others were standing in groups as they normally would (of course some of those might be household groups, but many won't be). In one case a penalty was given just before the end and loads of people congregated behind that goal…Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Patience is a virtue at the moment.
Having fans back in limited numbers will cost Hibs money. I'd love to be part of a group of 1 or 2000 at a game, frankly watching on a screen leaves me disconnected and bored, but not if it doesn't make sense economically and from a health perspective.
We are close to a return to near normality. Heads down, get on with it and have ER rocking for the 1at game of next season.
I’m talking non league though. I go and watch Preston for example. Taking the stand being close, due to player changing, then I look around the pitch and see grass verges that well over 1000 people can get into. I stand outside a perimeter wall watching the game. I am not allowed to stand the other side of that perimeter wall and pay my £6 to get in, along with the 50-100 others. My point being at these grounds (where it isn’t stadia in the most part, it is all terraces/grass verges) then they should’ve had fans in a long time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
I’ve absolutely no doubt that the committee members of these clubs would take great pride in walking round making sure distancing is observed.
If England are to allow 4,000 fans in to games, most of their stadiums are more in keeping with Celtic and Rangers here, with some exceptions.
So 4,000 would be lost in say Man Utd stadium, but in Fulham it would have a bit of atmosphere!
Up here Hamilton and Livingston would be over half full!
Would that then be an advantage to smaller stadia'd teams???
It’s 4000 or 50% of capacity whichever is lower but not sure if they have to let any away fans in so if not that could be an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by where'stheslope
Excuse my ignorance 😁 But to save me trawling through recent news bulletins and updates , as well as countless threads.. Do we reckon we will be back in the stadiums at full capacity for next season or potentially earlier??
Full stadiums at the start of next season for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
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Originally Posted by Leith Green
Nobody really knows.
Full capacity probably won't happen until this time next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
I think fans will return to every stadium in small numbers from August.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
I can't see why it would take a full year for full stadiums when the vaccine is getting rolled out next month
Sooner the better , Only thing i have genuinely missed during this year is watching hibs
We'll see I suppose, just guesswork on my part.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbyAndy
I don't see us getting up to 20,000 people inside Easter Road until the vaccine's available to the general public, which it won't be for a long time yet.
I actually really agree with this, I had written off the prospect of getting into the ground this season when the second wave began showing signs. As you say it would be nice to get some folk back but at this point if its going to cost the club money I'd rather we just knuckle down and see this through to the vaccine rather than try and get a small number of people in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by HibbyAndy
I reckon that's a pretty shrewd estimate, reliant on the vaccine rollout going relatively smoothly. IMO it will take the rest of this season to hopefully build up from small attendances to a full house. It would only take a spike or two to put us right back into the Tom Kite again.
Only my take on it budQuote:
Originally Posted by CockneyRebel
Given the Christmas bubble announcement, I think the only places full in the New Year will be hospitals!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leith Green
I think the only way fans will get back into full stadiums will be through either,
You can show a valid ID along with proof of vaccination certificate
or
Roughly,75% of the population have been vaccinated.
KLM and Transavia are talking about only letting folk on board planes if they have proof of vaccination.(not sure on the full story though)
No joke, there are only three tiers in England, the post I replied to said there were 6 tiers :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
I blame the original post for confusing the league structure with the tiers of restrictions. :wink:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55073217
Sturgeon in no rush to put football at the front of the queue. Rightly so I feel.
Fairly clear it was regarding league structure considering I said it was tier 6 and below, and as you’ve rightly said there are only three Covid tiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Yet says football can’t be treated in isolation which is fine, which should mean we are treated the same as the rest of the country. That should mean that I am allowed to stand on a grass verge and watch a non league game of football, just as I can stand on a grass verge in the park, or down the links. The fact there is a football game on shouldn’t matter based on her statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
" it could be the death-knell of some of our best loved clubs - and Hearts" :)
No doubt Aberdeen, Ross County and Celtic will be at the front of the queue.
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I know someone who's going to Lanzarote next weekend, flying from Edinburgh. Airline insisting that they have vaccinations (expensive) no more than 48 hours before departure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass
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All current talk of tiers are commonly referring to the tiers of covid restrictions, you confused the issue by bringing an unexpected reference to a 6 tiers without mentioning that it's the English league pyramid you are talking about.. Clear as mud.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
What vaccination are they getting? 🤔Quote:
Originally Posted by EI255
I'm assuming you mean that the airline's insisting on them having a test?Quote:
Originally Posted by EI255
The flight will be pretty empty if they're insisting people need a vaccine.
Yip must be a test, think you need one to get into the Canaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
I might be missing the joke but... :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I assume they mean a test rather than a vaccine.
I look forward to next season with some optimism but can’t see there being meaningful numbers in grounds this season. That a small, three figure, number of fans get back this season would be good.
Vaccine may start to be distributed next month but I don’t see level zero being universal by the end of the season. Really want to be wrong on this.
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Ive written off this season and can’t really say I’ve got any interest in going back with a few hundred fans as a sort of trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
I’ll happily just wait till next season now. Also don’t really see how getting fans back in limited numbers will help clubs financially? Presumably it’ll be season ticket holders first so they’ve already paid their money. Won’t make money of catering and merchandise off a small number of fans so seems a bit of a pointless argument to be picking now.
Should just wait till next season now unless there’s real developments that allow decent crowds in before the end of the season.
Totally agree. Any limited numbers should firstly be offered to non league and lower league sides who may need it to survive. Top league clubs should have the option if they like, but I’d rather hibs had none in than lost money through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
It’s not about losing money, they have people’s money. As soon as they have the opportunity to get folk in, in whatever numbers, they need to do it. There are plenty folk who would take the opportunity, no matter how limited numbers are.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
Yeah but the SPFL letter to Sturgeon says that if they don’t allow some limited number of fans back in then it could cause clubs to be in serious financial trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Letting a limited number of fans back in won’t help anyone financially I wouldn’t have thought. Not to any significant amount anyway.
There are other aspects to it as well IMO, not just match day revenue. Getting folk to the stadium is the best way to engage them and fans need a bit hope that they’re going to be getting more for their money with season ticket renewals just round the corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
Limited numbers of fans would help a lot of the lower league clubs, I’m sure.
Yeah and that’s your prerogative. My stance on it is I’d rather not go this season knowing it’ll cost my club more money, which could be better spent in the transfer market in January or the summer to allow me to see an even better side competing when I’m allowed back. Couple that with a horrendous atmosphere, sitting for 2 hours with a mask on, then unfortunately it’s not for me, and many others I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
The statement from the SPFL is regarding the grave danger of losing clubs if fans aren’t allowed in now. That may well be the case for lower league clubs and they’d be my focus, but it’s the total opposite for majority of top league clubs.
I get others will decide whether they fancy it or no. But having parted with £420 I don’t think I’ll be feeling guilty about costing the club money if I have the chance to attend!Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
meant testQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Holiday has just been cancelled anyways
Indeed! (test not vaccination)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
Holiday been cancelled anyway.
Absolutely, each to their own of course but I wouldn't feel an ounce of guilt by attending a match in the next couple of months.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
If it wasn't for season ticket holders digging deep 7 or 8 months ago, despite not having a clue what they were paying for, there may not have been a club in existence that we could do out of money.
Which is completely fair, I still think we’re a million miles away from being out of the woods financially though, every penny is still a prisoner, and I genuinely don’t think I’d get any enjoyment from going along, sitting on my hands, with a mask for 2 hours, without being able to sing and shout and celebrate any goals like I would normally. Fair play if you could, I’d just rather the club kept every penny and minimised outgoings this season, to ensure come the summer we can continue to build on this squad and give us an even better product to go back to in August.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
I think clubs will want to demonstrate to supporters that they are open for business-even if as rightly said it'll cost the bigger clubs to do it.
Jet2? We cancelled our holiday to Lanzarote that was booked for February due to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by EI255
400 and odd pound to get us all tested wasn’t worth it for a week away tbh.
I am not sure if I would go back with a couple of hundred in the ground but I think that there would be enough people who would want to go back - and would feel better for doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
Part of me also thinks it would be a wider pick me up indicating that things are getting better.
... not something to be rushed
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I think, more than anything, they’ll want to demonstrate to supporters that they’re doing all they can to get as many back in as are allowed at any given time. It wouldn’t look good if they were allowed supporters in, chose not to let them in, but at the same time were asking them to shell out for next years season ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
They’ll want to use it to help get things operational again as well, especially as things will likely be getting done a bit differently when we get back.
Liverpool and London placed into Tier 2 which means there could be up to 2,000 fans allowed into the Liverpool v Wolves and Spurs v Arsenal game on the 5th December.
Slightly different tack on the same point. The club will need people to attend to prove their system operates. If I'm lucky enough to get picked,I'm there.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
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Clubs will do all they can to get fans in , if I get the chance I'm in .Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Long way to go but need to get as close to normal before season end.
Would be an incentive for people to renew.
This has probably been raised already, but I can't be bothered to go back multiple pages to find out :greengrin
Aside from being nice and getting a few fans into the ground to cheer the players on, what incentive is there for Hibs to open the gates to a few thousand fans even if it was allowed? I would imagine there would be no catering and no hospitality, so Hibs wouldn't make any money from that and I imagine it would be a requirement to have some extra staff and stewards who would cost the club money.
And then how do you pick the say 2000? Even if it was a straight up ballot of ST holders what happens next time, are the lucky first time winners excluded from the next ballot?
If they are excluded what if the game they got lucky for was Hibs v Hamilton but they were then excluded from a chance at a cup tie against the Rangers or even Hearts?
What if Hibs decided 1500 would be ST holders and the other 500 tickets were put on general sale to give walk ups a chance?
We all know what this place is like, there would be uproar :devil:
I've pointed out before that there would only be costs involved for Hibs as the income has already been received.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
However it's a good way to keep fans engaged and I think it would only be season ticket holders eligible for any ballot as that would be a way of thanking those who forked out knowing that there was a real risk of not being able to attend any games.
As regards which match you get, that's pure luck and once you've accepted that's you until everyone else has been picked. I'd probably give people two weeks notice and ask for acceptances so that any seat which isn't accepted could then be offered to someone else. Seats would be non-transferable to enable track and trace. Family groups could be included together, so a family of three has three chance to be picked but if any one of them is picked then all three have to go or miss out.
Frankly I couldn't care whether I get top of the table Sevco or bottom of the league Hamilton - I'd just like to be there and won't be put off by wearing a mask or not sitting next to anyone.
IMO, they have a responsibility to give as many people as possible what they have paid for, whenever this becomes possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
Regarding who gets to go, I think it should be a case of a straightforward ballot with season ticket holders only. Find out who wants to be included/excluded and take it from there.
I haven't missed going to ER anything like as much as I thought I would and I have no real interest in being part of any limited crowds which might be allowed before the end of the season. However, it's a currently a lovely bright wintery morning in Edinburgh and with Hibs at home and playing a (hopefully) winnable game I'm thinking for the first time in a long while that it would be nice to be able to head down to the game today.
I think people might miss it more if it was the only thing in life that's changed, but the fact that it's a relatively small part of every day life being turned on it's head means the effect is lessened.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
Yes from my point of view I'd agree with that tho I'd suggest there are some fans for whom it's been a very big miss and the lack of that weekly (or more) routine and the companionship etc that often goes with it will have been hard to adjust to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
no danger there will be walk upsQuote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
Have to agree, that would just be ridiculous if all season ticket holders can’t get in.Quote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
how many ST holders are there again?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee
A bit over 11k. Don't know if a final figure was ever announced.Quote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
I know it's starting to sound like excuses from Lennon, but does he have a point about Celtic finding it harder going without fans? It could be argued that while Rangers look to be the better side this season there's less pressure on them trying to stop 10 in a row without their fans on their back, which would probably have happened if they'd started to slip up as they have done over the last couple of seasons. Celtic on the the other hand would likely benefit from their fans willing them on to reach the 10 in a row mark.
Overall, has anyone heard any players talk at any length about what it's like to play in empty stadia every game? While for some I imagine the absence of the pressure might help them shrug off any mistakes they make, I can't help thinking that for most it must feel a bit like playing training matches/closed doors (literally) games every week and it will arguably hard for them to raise their game.
Or does it not really bother players whether there are fans there or not?
I'm not sure on the commercial clauses behind our sponsorship contracts and whether or not we'd be able to offer any hospitality but I suspect any additional income from those areas would be offset by the extra costs. However, fans have already paid to be there so I think there's a degree of expectation on Hibs to get fans in as and when they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE
I'd suggest it's a ballot but one that ST holders apply for so as to avoid someone being picked and being unable to attend.
Once you're in once you don't re-enter the ballot until everyone else has had their shot too.
No walk ups until we're allowed over 11,000 (or whatever the ST sales were in the end) into the ground.
There is a company in Nottingham who have developed a Covid Killing mask (it kills all viruses) and is starting to be mass produced next month. I think professional sports should be investigating the potential with this. It could be a game changer in getting crowds back into stadia nationwide.
Do you have a link, I’d like to read more about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by roo62
I'm assuming it's this.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18 SFR
https://www.itv.com/news/central/202...dr-gareth-cave
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Sir David Gray
The company is Pharm2farm and the mask was developed by Dr Gareth Cave. They are working with a German company Volz who are supporting worldwide production requirements and they are also awaiting a production line from Spain to arrive in the UK mid December for testing. The opportunity for the NHS,Care Homes,Air travel, Cruise Ships ...and professional sports, theatre,music arenas...endless really.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18 SFR
Yes bothQuote:
Originally Posted by H18 SFR
Only a partial defence against breathing in droplets. No good for the 101 other ways you can become infected.Quote:
Originally Posted by roo62
After touching something that has the virus droplets and then touching your mouth/nose/eyes, what are the other 100?Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee