Josh Campbell

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Originally Posted by brog

Well we don't just start to see it because you mention it in most posts. Personally I'm not convinced its relevant. I do agree numbers can be misleading, you fail to mention 22 of Josh's appearances were as a sub, some very fleeting. In his starts Josh has played at right back, wide left, holding mid, box to box mid and on Saturday he came on and went up front. I think those details put his 'infequency' of games in which he scored in some perspective.

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Good post.

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Originally Posted by easty

He didn't just score goals, he also assisted far more than Campbell does. He's miles better on the ball than Campbell.

Campbell is definitely a better athlete.

I cannae work out how, out of 2 attacking midfield players, the player who scores less, assists less, who's less comfortable on the ball and has worse technique is the "all round better player"?

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Is it because athleticism, whether we like it or not, is a big part of being an effective midfielder?

I used to feel heart sorry for Mallan. His attitude was fine, he clearly had ability but he just looked to have a level of athleticism that was just never going to improve. With a bit more of a burst of pace, he'd have been a much more effective midfielder, both in attack and defence but it just wasn't there, meaning he was sadly a liability in our midfield too often.

That athletic ability wasn't something that was going to be taught whereas you feel that with Campbell he's already got that and that the other stuff might well come with time (well, not a shot like Mallan's which isn't easily taught at all).

I was actually really impressed with Mallan when he played for Salford against Leeds the other week. He was playing deep and had a very good game, with his slowness never really ending up being exposed.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

There you go, you can use the numbers to suit yourself either way. He has shifted about a bit position wise but the majority of his appearances have been playing higher up the park and I don’t think he has enough end product consistently enough to play there. And I don’t think he has enough good attributes to play deeper in a Montgomery team, looking at how we are going to be set up. Reckon his game time will reduce this season.

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I very much doubt that the majority of his appearances have been playing higher up the park. I can't recall him playing there before last season.

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Originally Posted by brog

I very much doubt that the majority of his appearances have been playing higher up the park. I can't recall him playing there before last season.

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His appearances last season and this season make up the majority of his career Hibs appearances.

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Originally Posted by brog

I very much doubt that the majority of his appearances have been playing higher up the park. I can't recall him playing there before last season.

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He was our most attack minded midfielder last season, occasionally playing elsewhere. Prior to last season when it was the dreaded trio of him, JDH and Newell he was always the furthest forward of the three, albeit Maloney used him differently at times.

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Originally Posted by brog

I very much doubt that the majority of his appearances have been playing higher up the park. I can't recall him playing there before last season.

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And he okayed further up the park at City. He’s an attacking mid all day long. Oh and it’s a cert he will play less in a 442. He doesn’t suit that shape.

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Originally Posted by CapitalGreen

His appearances last season and this season make up the majority of his career Hibs appearances.

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I know but he continued to play in a variety of roles last season. I certainly remember 1st couple of months when Henderson was being used in the forward, midfield role.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

He was our most attack minded midfielder last season, occasionally playing elsewhere. Prior to last season when it was the dreaded trio of him, JDH and Newell he was always the furthest forward of the three, albeit Maloney used him differently at times.

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I really wish Hibs supporters would avoid calling 3 of our players, 'the dreaded trio''! It adds nothing to any debate.

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Originally Posted by brog

I really wish Hibs supporters would avoid calling 3 of our players, 'the dreaded trio''! It adds nothing to any debate.

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Whereas this post adds much more to the debate. Anyway, the only point I was making was that whenever he played in that three (prior to last season), Campbell was always the furthest forward of them (despite you not having seen him play forward prior to last season).

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Originally Posted by brog

I very much doubt that the majority of his appearances have been playing higher up the park. I can't recall him playing there before last season.

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Maloney had him playing as a DM imo and it wasn't till LJ was manager that we started to play him further up . He's also played RB and now under the new manager plays him as a striker. Great asset for a club to have in a player that's so versatile in being able to play so many different positions if needed . Even our current manager praised him for the shift he put in against killie too.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

Maloney had him playing as a DM imo and it wasn't till LJ was manager that we started to play him further up . He's also played RB and now under the new manager plays him as a striker. Great asset for a club to have in a player that's so versatile in being able to play so many different positions if needed . Even our current manager praised him for the shift he put in against killie too.

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First bit isn’t true. He was the most advanced of the midfield plenty times before Johnson, particularly when in a three of him, Newell and JDH. That was under Ross when he first got in to the team, under SDG when he was in caretaker charge after Ross then under Maloney at times, although not all the time.

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Originally Posted by brog

I know but he continued to play in a variety of roles last season. I certainly remember 1st couple of months when Henderson was being used in the forward, midfield role.

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Whenever they both started in the first few months of last season, Henderson was always wide left and Campbell through the middle.

The exception to this was the Rangers game where Campbell started LWB before LJ changed it after half an hour, talking off Henderson and moving Campbell to attacking midfield.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

First bit isn’t true. He was the most advanced of the midfield plenty times before Johnson, particularly when in a three of him, Newell and JDH. That was under Ross when he first got in to the team, under SDG when he was in caretaker charge after Ross then under Maloney at times, although not all the time.

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The idea that Johnson turned him into a AM is just nonsense. He’s played there loads before LJ came beat Hibs. And David Gray would have told him that.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

First bit isn’t true. He was the most advanced of the midfield plenty times before Johnson, particularly when in a three of him, Newell and JDH. That was under Ross when he first got in to the team, under SDG when he was in caretaker charge after Ross then under Maloney at times, although not all the time.

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He scored once I think it was under Maloney and under LJ he got 8 and had 4 or 5 assist's . I don't remember him getting into the box under Maloney to often more playing a deeper role ( Getting any players in the box was a problem under Maloney most of the time. ).

Campbell regularly got himself in the box or outside it under LJ and the difference between Campbells position in our team under Maloney compared to LJ's was night and day imo .

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

He scored once I think it was under Maloney and under LJ he got 8 and had 4 or 5 assist's . I don't remember him getting into the box under Maloney to often more playing a deeper role ( Getting any players in the box was a problem under Maloney most of the time. ).

Campbell regularly got himself in the box or outside it under LJ and the difference between Campbells position in our team under Maloney compared to LJ's was night and day imo .

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Our whole team scored significantly less goals under Maloney than we did under LJ.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

He scored once I think it was under Maloney and under LJ he got 8 and had 4 or 5 assist's . I don't remember him getting into the box under Maloney to often more playing a deeper role ( Getting any players in the box was a problem under Maloney most of the time. ).

Campbell regularly got himself in the box or outside it under LJ and the difference between Campbells position in our team under Maloney compared to LJ's was night and day imo .

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We had next to no attacking threat under Maloney because we had the likes of Jasper, Wright, Melkersen, Scott and Henderson. But Campbell didn’t play deep all the time. At times he played deeper, at times he found himself playing out wide due to our lack of options. But he’d had plenty of games as a more attack minded midfielder before LJ arrived.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

First bit isn’t true. He was the most advanced of the midfield plenty times before Johnson, particularly when in a three of him, Newell and JDH. That was under Ross when he first got in to the team, under SDG when he was in caretaker charge after Ross then under Maloney at times, although not all the time.

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Maloney almost always played 3-4-3

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Originally Posted by Skol

Maloney almost always played 3-4-3

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He did which is why I mentioned where he was played prior to Maloney coming in. You’re right that Maloney predominantly played 433 but not all the time. He played Doidge and Nisbet together a few times prior to Nisbet doing his cruciate and played all of Newell, JDH and Campbell on a few occasions as well.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

We had next to no attacking threat under Maloney because we had the likes of Jasper, Wright, Melkersen, Scott and Henderson. But Campbell didn’t play deep all the time. At times he played deeper, at times he found himself playing out wide due to our lack of options. But he’d had plenty of games as a more attack minded midfielder before LJ arrived.

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Part of having no attacking threat under Maloney was down to poor management in not getting players to push forward. When we did attack generally we'd be lucky to have one player in the box . For all LJ's faults getting our players into the box wasn't one of them as we'd regularly have 5 or 6 in the box.

Campbell mainly played a deeper role under Maloney and out wide due to lack of options probably wasn't helped due to Maloney signing Demitri Mitchell who was a wide player with a injury history too . He still should have played Campbell in his main position and even the when he did which wasn't often you'd rarely see Campbell getting into the box which was mainly down to Maloney's awful style of football imo .

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

Part of having no attacking threat under Maloney was down to poor management in not getting players to push forward. When we did attack generally we'd be lucky to have one player in the box . For all LJ's faults getting our players into the box wasn't one of them as we'd regularly have 5 or 6 in the box.

Campbell mainly played a deeper role under Maloney and out wide due to lack of options probably wasn't helped due to Maloney signing Demitri Mitchell who was a wide player with a injury history too . He still should have played Campbell in his main position and even the when he did which wasn't often you'd rarely see Campbell getting into the box which was mainly down to Maloney's awful style of football imo .

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What do you see as Campbell’s ‘main’ position out of interest?

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

What do you see as Campbell’s ‘main’ position out of interest?

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I'm surprised you've asked that tbh as I'd have thought it was fairly obvious what Josh Campbell's main position was in fairness.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

I'm surprised you've asked that tbh as I'd have thought it was fairly obvious what Josh Campbell's main position was in fairness.

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Pretty straightforward question really. I’m just curious from your point of view. What I think you see as his main position wouldn’t really have been accommodated in Maloney’s preferred system (so not just a straightforward case of playing him somewhere different) just as it won’t be accommodated in Montgomery’s preferred system.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

I'm surprised you've asked that tbh as I'd have thought it was fairly obvious what Josh Campbell's main position was in fairness.

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Sub

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Pretty straightforward question really. I’m just curious from your point of view. What I think you see as his main position wouldn’t really have been accommodated in Maloney’s preferred system (so not just a straightforward case of playing him somewhere different) just as it won’t be accommodated in Montgomery’s preferred system.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Is it because athleticism, whether we like it or not, is a big part of being an effective midfielder?

I used to feel heart sorry for Mallan. His attitude was fine, he clearly had ability but he just looked to have a level of athleticism that was just never going to improve. With a bit more of a burst of pace, he'd have been a much more effective midfielder, both in attack and defence but it just wasn't there, meaning he was sadly a liability in our midfield too often.

That athletic ability wasn't something that was going to be taught whereas you feel that with Campbell he's already got that and that the other stuff might well come with time (well, not a shot like Mallan's which isn't easily taught at all).

I was actually really impressed with Mallan when he played for Salford against Leeds the other week. He was playing deep and had a very good game, with his slowness never really ending up being exposed.

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I remember Lennon lining us up against Celtc with Mallan at the base of midfield. Looked like suicide but iirc it was a convincing 2-0 win for us.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

I remember Lennon lining us up against Celtc with Mallan at the base of midfield. Looked like suicide but iirc it was a convincing 2-0 win for us.

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Stevie was outstanding that day spraying 40 yard passes all over the pitch

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Originally Posted by jacomo

I remember Lennon lining us up against Celtc with Mallan at the base of midfield. Looked like suicide but iirc it was a convincing 2-0 win for us.

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One of two league wins in about 3 months that led to his sacking. It was suicide, it just happened to work once.

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Originally Posted by Donegal Hibby

He scored once I think it was under Maloney and under LJ he got 8 and had 4 or 5 assist's . I don't remember him getting into the box under Maloney to often more playing a deeper role ( Getting any players in the box was a problem under Maloney most of the time. ).

Campbell regularly got himself in the box or outside it under LJ and the difference between Campbells position in our team under Maloney compared to LJ's was night and day imo .

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If you worked out what Maloneyball was all about you are way smarter than me.

Ping it to the midfielder being marked and use a bit of magic to create an opening?

Something I noticed last week was our front 2 are very similar to what has been seen at Villa, and if you look at them, they play Watkins as the main striker, and the second striker is often Diaby(a winger). Doidge played that second striker role and was dropping deep and dragging players about and it worked really well, I can see Campbell playing that role very well.

It would take out the need for him to get involved earlier on in the play and focus more on his movement/supporting the striker. It might suit his game a little more and I think he could make that second striker role his own, in time.

I also think we will see others played in that role that might not be a striker by trade, it's not an old fashioned 442 with 2 blocks of 4 and 2 strikers that stay high, its much more of a fluid 442 that almost resembles a 4231 in possession at times and that could suit Josh. Technically I'd say he's not really up to the required level to play in the midfield 2, but I also think there's a place for him in the team, although I can only see him playing upfront in this system, or out wide at a stretch as the wingers seem to come inside more like inside forwards rather than traditional wingers.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

If you worked out what Maloneyball was all about you are way smarter than me.

Ping it to the midfielder being marked and use a bit of magic to create an opening?

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I think Maloneyball was all about boring the opposition to sleep.