Atlantic League

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

So your saying so long as Hibs are playing, you don’t care?


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More or less.

I think that's the thing though. In the end I doubt if a single true Hibs fan would abandon the club if they joined the Atlantic League or some other new cross border competition. As long as Hibs are there the fans will be too, whether it's Motherwell or Midtjylland that are the opposition.

So, in the context of the Atlantic league, I wouldn't be too concerned about the doubters and Ron and the club won't be either. If they think something like this would be a goer they'll jump at it.

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Originally Posted by mayo hibee

I think that's the thing though. In the end I doubt if a single true Hibs fan would abandon the club if they joined the Atlantic League or some other new cross border competition. As long as Hibs are there the fans will be too, whether it's Motherwell or Midtjylland that are the opposition.

So, in the context of the Atlantic league, I wouldn't be too concerned about the doubters and Ron and the club won't be either. If they think something like this would be a goer they'll jump at it.

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It’s not a goer. I’m sure Ron and the club knows this and the dreamers who think it is will accept that.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Yes, last thing we want is to be watching better quality players on both sides every week.[emoji849]


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I'll accept that as your answer to my first two questions, although it doesn't explain what benefit there is to Hibs.

Now, about my other three questions ....

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Originally Posted by mayo hibee

I think that's the thing though. In the end I doubt if a single true Hibs fan would abandon the club if they joined the Atlantic League or some other new cross border competition. As long as Hibs are there the fans will be too, whether it's Motherwell or Midtjylland that are the opposition.

So, in the context of the Atlantic league, I wouldn't be too concerned about the doubters and Ron and the club won't be either. If they think something like this would be a goer they'll jump at it.

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The Motherwell or Midtjytlland point is true. But only if we are winning. It took a once in a 114 years event to get us to the level of support we did. We backed that up by getting promoted then having a good season. Then when the performances started to dip, you started to see more empty spaces appearing.

Hibs will never be in a position where they can be unconcerned about losing an element of support.

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Originally Posted by easty

It’s not a goer. I’m sure Ron and the club knows this and the dreamers who think it is will accept that.

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I agree in that the proposals being discussed here look dead in the water at the moment. But not because a few fans don't like them.

Something along these lines is inevitable at some stage in the future though. The softening of UEFA's position brings league mergers into play all over Europe.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Apart from Tynecastle, the majority of our season ticket holders don’t want to watch us away from home.

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Well I haven’t been to Tynecastle for 20 years (League Cup Semi-Finals excluded). I have been to many other grounds in Scotland since then.

I don’t expect to travel over to Malmö or Odd.

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Originally Posted by mayo hibee

I think that's the thing though. In the end I doubt if a single true Hibs fan would abandon the club if they joined the Atlantic League or some other new cross border competition. As long as Hibs are there the fans will be too, whether it's Motherwell or Midtjylland that are the opposition.

So, in the context of the Atlantic league, I wouldn't be too concerned about the doubters and Ron and the club won't be either. If they think something like this would be a goer they'll jump at it.

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i will not be following Hibs into an Atlantic league. I guess I’ll leave that to the “true” Hibs fans.

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Originally Posted by mayo hibee

I agree in that the proposals being discussed here look dead in the water at the moment. But not because a few fans don't like them.

Something along these lines is inevitable at some stage in the future though. The softening of UEFA's position brings league mergers into play all over Europe.

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The few fans who don’t like them, on this site, appear to be the majority.

There’s nothing that makes a Scottish/Danish/Swedish/Finnish/Belgian/whatever hybrid league inevitable.

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Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia

i will not be following Hibs into an Atlantic league. I guess I’ll leave that to the “true” Hibs fans.

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It may be Hibs by name, but it certainly wouldn’t be the same Hibs by actions, by principles and beliefs. The fact the main driver for this is purely revenues based and how much our owner can take from us. shows how far people are happy to take us from our roots.

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Originally Posted by easty

The few fans who don’t like them, on this site, appear to be the majority.

There’s nothing that makes a Scottish/Danish/Swedish/Finnish/Belgian/whatever hybrid league inevitable.

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Atlantic league is not inevitable but I think change is. Just no idea what it will look like. One thing for sure is that the clubs are looking.

I wonder if the new laws to establish a UK single market will allow Scottish teams to seek entry to any UK competition? Surely if we really are to have a single UK market then Hibs are as entitled to play in the English leagues as Cardiff are?


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Originally Posted by hibbysam

It may be Hibs by name, but it certainly wouldn’t be the same Hibs by actions, by principles and beliefs. The fact the main driver for this is purely revenues based and how much our owner can take from us. shows how far people are happy to take us from our roots.

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Hibs are one of the biggest blocks to enlarging the premier league, were all for the original breakaway to form it from the old div 1 and generally are well capable of acting selfishly. And that was before we got an American owner who surely has to be here looking for a return on his investment.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Atlantic league is not inevitable but I think change is. Just no idea what it will look like. One thing for sure is that the clubs are looking.

I wonder if the new laws to establish a UK single market will allow Scottish teams to seek entry to any UK competition? Surely if we really are to have a single UK market then Hibs are as entitled to play in the English leagues as Cardiff are?


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Even if that were true we'd have no entitlement to leapfrog any teams. We'd be starting in the bottom league of the English pyramid which is the 10th tier in English football. That is where the phoenix club of Bury have had to start.

That would be even worse than the "Atlantic" league. A minimum of 8 years playing absolute crap before we got to the Championship. And there's no guarantees at all we'd be getting out league 1 and league 2 at the first attempt. Our TV revenues would be zero for the first 4 or 5 years, our crowds would be dreadful,next to no away fans, no o European football probably ever again. Horrendous idea.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Even if that were true we'd have no entitlement to leapfrog any teams. We'd be starting in the bottom league of the English pyramid which is the 10th tier in English football. That is where the phoenix club of Bury have had to start.

That would be even worse than the "Atlantic" league. An minimum of 8 years playing absolute crap before we got to the Championship. And there's no guarantees at all wee be getting out league 1 and league 2 at the first attempt. Our TV revenues would be zero for the first 4 or 5 years, our crowds would be dreadful,next to no away fans, no o European football probably ever again. Horrendous idea.

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And most, if not all of our good players would be gone. No guarantee we'd even get out the bottom pyramid leagues. Don't think Kevin Nisbet or Gogic would fancy playing Squires Gate away on a Tuesday night.

If there’s going to be. UK league set up (there won’t be), it would surely be by negotiation and amalgamation. Celts, Rangers, Hibs etc will not be starting at the bottom of the English pyramid.

How will the cross border leagues start, if at all? I think it will be a top down approach. No big clubs will move ( Celtic, Ajax etc) until the top tiers of any new Euro Super league are decided. I thought it was interesting as Dave Cormack spoke the other day in terms of multiple Super league divisions. Maybe just maybe that’s what Celtic are looking at as I’d imagine them being a tier 2 Euro super league candidate. If there ends up 3 or 4 divisions, then who’s left behind will have to make their choices whether to join forces with other similarly sized clubs/ leagues or not.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Even if that were true we'd have no entitlement to leapfrog any teams. We'd be starting in the bottom league of the English pyramid which is the 10th tier in English football. That is where the phoenix club of Bury have had to start.

That would be even worse than the "Atlantic" league. A minimum of 8 years playing absolute crap before we got to the Championship. And there's no guarantees at all we'd be getting out league 1 and league 2 at the first attempt. Our TV revenues would be zero for the first 4 or 5 years, our crowds would be dreadful,next to no away fans, no o European football probably ever again. Horrendous idea.

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Originally Posted by Since452

And most, if not all of our good players would be gone. No guarantee we'd even get out the bottom pyramid leagues. Don't think Kevin Nisbet or Gogic would fancy playing Squires Gate away on a Tuesday night.

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I agree, I wouldn’t be interested in joining the English set up. League 1 and 2 would be particularly hard to get past as they have the salary cap now and we would need to get rid of players to get past it.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I agree, I wouldn’t be interested in joining the English set up. League 1 and 2 would be particularly hard to get past as they have the salary cap now and we would need to get rid of players to get past it.


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Think it's long overdue we need to be given the chance to find our level,there is no growth within the current set up and doubtful the powers that be are willing to drive through any change within our current league set up.Let teams find theyre level,in my opinion I think the growth is there for quite a few clubs in Scotland but it's the current set up that stunts it,it's all too familiar.Look at Bournemouth and what they achieved i reckon it's perfectly reasonable that given that oppertunity teams in Scotland could match that.

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Originally Posted by JimboHibs

Think it's long overdue we need to be given the chance to find our level,there is no growth within the current set up and doubtful the powers that be are willing to drive through any change within our current league set up.Let teams find theyre level,in my opinion I think the growth is there for quite a few clubs in Scotland but it's the current set up that stunts it,it's all too familiar.Look at Bournemouth and what they achieved i reckon it's perfectly reasonable that given that oppertunity teams in Scotland could match that.

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For every Bournemouth there’s a Forrest or Leeds. What if our level ends up below where we expect it to be? You only have to look at us getting stuck in the championship for 3 seasons to see that a few bad years and it’s difficult to get out of the downward spiral. I think there’s more chance of us growing than the downward spiral but recent history shows us we’re very capable of making tough work of all our advantages.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Atlantic league is not inevitable but I think change is. Just no idea what it will look like. One thing for sure is that the clubs are looking.

I wonder if the new laws to establish a UK single market will allow Scottish teams to seek entry to any UK competition? Surely if we really are to have a single UK market then Hibs are as entitled to play in the English leagues as Cardiff are?


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Why would they want to though? Swap the (already too remote) possibility of winning things and playing in europe for it never happening, ever. Unless we sold our soul to some dodgy billionaire who wanted to bankroll us for a few seasons.

Hibs in England is an awful possibility.

I want to watch Hibs win things, and have good seasons every now and again. Bumming about in the english lower leagues with almost zero propsect of that ever happening again does not appeal to me in the slightest.

I would be watching whatever breakaway club emerged and started again at the bottom of the scottish pyramid, if that were to happen.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

For every Bournemouth there’s a Forrest or Leeds. What if our level ends up below where we expect it to be? You only have to look at us getting stuck in the championship for 3 seasons to see that a few bad years and it’s difficult to get out of the downward spiral. I think there’s more chance of us growing than the downward spiral but recent history shows us we’re very capable of making tough work of all our advantages.

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Its not about finding instant success,slim chances of that happening.Its about having the chance to find our level,i don't see any growth in Scottish Football just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by JimboHibs

Its not about finding instant success,slim chances of that happening.Its about having the chance to find our level,i don't see any growth in Scottish Football just my opinion.

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Because Hibs have found their level?

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Originally Posted by James Stephen

Why would they want to though? Swap the (already too remote) possibility of winning things and playing in europe for it never happening, ever. Unless we sold our soul to some dodgy billionaire who wanted to bankroll us for a few seasons.

Hibs in England is an awful possibility.

I want to watch Hibs win things, and have good seasons every now and again. Bumming about in the english lower leagues with almost zero propsect of that ever happening again does not appeal to me in the slightest.

I would be watching whatever breakaway club emerged and started again at the bottom of the scottish pyramid, if that were to happen.

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I’m definitely not advocating joining the English set up. I’d rather stay where we are but RG may feel differently if the opportunity presents itself. There are massive amount of money available in their game and RG will be looking to maximise his return.


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Originally Posted by James Stephen

Why would they want to though? Swap the (already too remote) possibility of winning things and playing in europe for it never happening, ever. Unless we sold our soul to some dodgy billionaire who wanted to bankroll us for a few seasons.

Hibs in England is an awful possibility.

I want to watch Hibs win things, and have good seasons every now and again. Bumming about in the english lower leagues with almost zero propsect of that ever happening again does not appeal to me in the slightest.

I would be watching whatever breakaway club emerged and started again at the bottom of the scottish pyramid, if that were to happen.

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I agree with this position completely. Look at this season for example, we have a very real chance of finishing third, qualifying for Europe and winning at least one trophy. That’s enough for me. As a Hibs fan I’m accustomed to not winning titles though I hold out the hope that one day we might push for one. But here in Scotland, not in England or a Scandinavian league I don’t care about.

I would also get behind any breakaway Hibs team in Scotland if we were to abandon our roots.

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Originally Posted by JimboHibs

Think it's long overdue we need to be given the chance to find our level,there is no growth within the current set up and doubtful the powers that be are willing to drive through any change within our current league set up.Let teams find theyre level,in my opinion I think the growth is there for quite a few clubs in Scotland but it's the current set up that stunts it,it's all too familiar.Look at Bournemouth and what they achieved i reckon it's perfectly reasonable that given that oppertunity teams in Scotland could match that.

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No sure Bournemouth is a great example of what you can achieve.

Obviously benefitted from the TV money on offer in the EPL but their sole objective was to survive every year. They never took cups seriously because all that mattered was staying in a rich league, where they were never going to achieve anything. Is that really something to aspire to?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’m definitely not advocating joining the English set up. I’d rather stay where we are but RG may feel differently if the opportunity presents itself. There are massive amount of money available in their game and RG will be looking to maximise his return.


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Apologies, I misunderstood your post.

Agree, and its always been the concern about Gordon's involvement - what does he think is in it for him?

I think if he made such a move and it had the fans backing, then I could accept I was in a laggard minority and put up with it. If he made such a move against the wishes of the fans, it would be uproar and I would not support it.

I'm not against looking at different ideas, and I wouldn't be against looking at some kind of North Sea Cup (in addition to, not instead of existing competition) - there used to be regional European tournaments decades ago, the Mediterranean Cup (I think?) and the Mitropa Cup, early precursors of European competition. Or just a radical reshaping of European competition, to have it more regional and more suitable for medium and smaller clubs - lets face it, the current structure serves only the really big clubs and has badly increased inequality in football.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’m definitely not advocating joining the English set up. I’d rather stay where we are but RG may feel differently if the opportunity presents itself. There are massive amount of money available in their game and RG will be looking to maximise his return.


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I'd be a bit wary of throwing those kind of comments around. It makes RG sound mercenary, I genuinely think he'd be for it but he would also listen to the supporters who would not be and go with them rather than chase riches.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

I'd be a bit wary of throwing those kind of comments around. It makes RG sound mercenary, I genuinely think he'd be for it but he would also listen to the supporters who would not be and go with them rather than chase riches.

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There would def be consultation but it looks like half the supporters are already open to change so it won’t take much of a sales job to get a majority in favour of any plan that comes forward.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There would def be consultation but it looks like half the supporters are already open to change so it won’t take much of a sales job to get a majority in favour of any plan that comes forward.


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You’d make a good MP with that spin Ozy.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

I'd be a bit wary of throwing those kind of comments around. It makes RG sound mercenary, I genuinely think he'd be for it but he would also listen to the supporters who would not be and go with them rather than chase riches.

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I have doubts whether profit for RG has anything to do with it. The reality of things now is that a gulf is growing between, Aberdeen-Hearts-Hibs and the other non OF teams. Unless we want to see a league year in year out from next season on which sees no change in the top five spots in the league then we will have to go for change.

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Originally Posted by ahibby

I have doubts whether profit for RG has anything to do with it. The reality of things now is that a gulf is growing between, Aberdeen-Hearts-Hibs and the other non OF teams. Unless we want to see a league year in year out from next season on which sees no change in the top five spots in the league then we will have to go for change.

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Hearts aren’t even in the top league, never mind the top 5 places.