Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

So is Ann Budge in the know ,and there are tentative dates set ,so she has parameters she is working to . Or is she pledging all this with the possibility they could go into liquidation and have to go Into third division ,hence she is giving them three to five years before she wants her money back .If she was just a Business woman you would say she wouldn't be interested if Liquidation was the most likely outcome but she is a fan with money to burn ,who presumably wants her club to survive at any cost ,but if she can make money out of them as well,all the better .Its intriguing ,as if they had a definite date for a Court date or dates you would think they would be ramming it down our throats .Hence March at earliest is best possible outcome mentioned to date .

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Ann Budge wont have to hand over a penny until the deal is done.

I wonder if budgie would still be interested in buying them if they were liquidated.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

I wonder if budgie would still be interested in buying them if they were liquidated.

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She wouldn't need to. The club itself (or at least its membership of the league structure) could be picked up for a token £1 plus agreement to meet the football debts in full. The big problem is that they would lose Tynecastle, because builders will jump at the opportunity to buy some prime land in central Edinburgh when the site is marketed separately.

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Originally Posted by Eyrie

She wouldn't need to. The club itself (or at least its membership of the league structure) could be picked up for a token £1 plus agreement to meet the football debts in full. The big problem is that they would lose Tynecastle, because builders will jump at the opportunity to buy some prime land in central Edinburgh when the site is marketed separately.

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If it is. The Rangers was not dismembered and sold off after liquidation. Can a similar dodgy deal be pulled with the merricks and merrickcastle?

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Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

So is Ann Budge in the know ,and there are tentative dates set ,so she has parameters she is working to . Or is she pledging all this with the possibility they could go into liquidation and have to go Into third division ,hence she is giving them three to five years before she wants her money back .If she was just a Business woman you would say she wouldn't be interested if Liquidation was the most likely outcome but she is a fan with money to burn ,who presumably wants her club to survive at any cost ,but if she can make money out of them as well,all the better .Its intriguing ,as if they had a definite date for a Court date or dates you would think they would be ramming it down our throats .Hence March at earliest is best possible outcome mentioned to date .

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Not sure of her motivations or her knowledge of the process of acquiring the shares but she can do nothing till she has them. But she certainly doesn't have money to burn - see other recent posts. If she buys the club for FOH and runs it as a tight ship she'll be seen, highly reluctantly by Hearts fans used to spenders beyond their means, as a savior who guaranteed the club wouldn't go into liquidation, and who facilitated fan ownership in 3-5 years time, when they pay her back.

However, if they aren't in the position to pay her back, she presumably owns the club. If she sells it, either as a going concern or for its separate assets (pbs land) she becomes a less heroic figure for the Yams. If she wants to buy the club at low cost it's in her interests to bleed FOH during her initial stewardship, thus depleting their cash for a fan owned sale.

The big buzz word around Hearts is agreement. Everybody is in agreement about the shares but the CVA hasn't been completed yet. If it miraculously is, and the Lithuanian courts join this 'agreement gang' then I'm sure Budge and FOH will 'agree' on desirability of fan ownership. I'd just be inclined to doubt it will actually happen.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

I believe BDO tried quite hard to prevent liquidation at pompey and failed. Just as their primary task is, apparently, to save the company and therefore avoid liquidation, there may be an argument that if they are succcessful in Hearts case why couldnt they have done it for Portsmouth. Surely it wasnt done at Portsmouth merely because it was convenient to do so?

It is also worth mentioning that Ann Budge is getting Hearts and all that they possess for less (in actual £'s and less than half price if adjusted for inflaton) than Farmer stumped up for Hibs 23 years ago.

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In Englandshire there is not automatic relegation to the bottom tier for Liquidation - that is the difference.

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Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

So is Ann Budge in the know ,and there are tentative dates set ,so she has parameters she is working to . Or is she pledging all this with the possibility they could go into liquidation and have to go Into third division ,hence she is giving them three to five years before she wants her money back .If she was just a Business woman you would say she wouldn't be interested if Liquidation was the most likely outcome but she is a fan with money to burn ,who presumably wants her club to survive at any cost ,but if she can make money out of them as well,all the better .Its intriguing ,as if they had a definite date for a Court date or dates you would think they would be ramming it down our throats .Hence March at earliest is best possible outcome mentioned to date .

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If the Big L happens they will not need AB's dough. Once there is a court date they will let us know about it.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

I wonder if budgie would still be interested in buying them if they were liquidated.

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Probably, she's a game old bird......sorry, should stick to tweets, oooops


Sent from my iphone

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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse

If it is. The Rangers was not dismembered and sold off after liquidation. Can a similar dodgy deal be pulled with the merricks and merrickcastle?

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No, it can't.

The "dodgy deal" that you mention was built into the Rangers CVA document. It was, effectively, "if you don't vote for Plan A (the CVA), by default Plan B takes effect (liquidation, but at a knockdown price)".

In Hearts case, there is no such Plan B.

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Originally Posted by Eyrie

She wouldn't need to. The club itself (or at least its membership of the league structure) could be picked up for a token £1 plus agreement to meet the football debts in full. The big problem is that they would lose Tynecastle, because builders will jump at the opportunity to buy some prime land in central Edinburgh when the site is marketed separately.

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In saying that, for a "new" football club with a large established support, Tynie is worth more as a football stadium (even with only 3 usable stands) than it would be to property developers.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

In saying that, for a "new" football club with a large established support, Tynie is worth more as a football stadium (even with only 3 usable stands) than it would be to property developers.

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It's long been a favourite theory of mine that waiting for them to go Pop and picking them up for a relatively low price was an attractive proposition for someone with money and a maroon scarf.

I am now wondering if AB has half an eye on that very scenario.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

In saying that, for a "new" football club with a large established support, Tynie is worth more as a football stadium (even with only 3 usable stands) than it would be to property developers.

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Worth more than a football stadium to whom?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's long been a favourite theory of mine that waiting for them to go Pop and picking them up for a relatively low price was an attractive proposition for someone with money and a maroon scarf.

I am now wondering if AB has half an eye on that very scenario.

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I'm also thinking that could be her game plan. If they liquidate, she can (like anybody else) get them for buttons, but she already has the goodwill of supporters as she supposedly 'assisted' fan ownership.

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

I'm also thinking that could be her game plan. If they liquidate, she can (like anybody else) get them for buttons, but she already has the goodwill of supporters as she supposedly 'assisted' fan ownership.

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Given the low value put on the stadium in the CVA, I am not sure that she would get it for much less.

However, the ongoing costs (particularly wages) wouldn't be so high.

It's doubtful she'd be able to buy a BIG club through any other circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

I'm also thinking that could be her game plan. If they liquidate, she can (like anybody else) get them for buttons, but she already has the goodwill of supporters as she supposedly 'assisted' fan ownership.

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After speaking recently to a prominent property developer in Scotland, given the correct planning consent, the PBS site is worth upwards of circa £6m - £7m. Said developer would also be happy to let the site rot for a number of years before demolition commenced. Budge will know the true value of the real estate and that's her 'insurance' should it all go breast skywards.

Of course, the caveat remains her getting her hands on the site and shares, but that's a simply a matter of the mythical Banderson 'rubber stamps'.

I don't think Budge has Herrts best interest at heart - not when she's apparently been taking advice from Craig Levien!

i for one would be delighted of he got the managers job. After the Scotland debacle I don't think there's many fans or the powers that be that actually like him. Also, Levien seems to employ some sort of siege mentality wherever he goes which is surely a sign that he's paranoid and prone to be wound up.

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Originally Posted by Mikey

I'm surprised that so many people still think that CWG, CG, PTS and Robinp (people who work in the industry) have just been making it all up for such a sustained period of time.

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But Accountants always make things up. They make up a set of accounts for the taxman, make up a set of accounts for the bank manager and then they make up they real set of accounts for the owner.

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Originally Posted by Seveno

But Accountants always make things up. They make up a set of accounts for the taxman, make up a set of accounts for the bank manager and then they make up they real set of accounts for the owner.

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Finally. Some sense on this thread.

END OF.

:na na:

After a weekend in Edinburgh, I heard all following things;
- They have the shares
- Budge has bought them
- Potter to be manager assisted by Houston

I heard this from various people, yet its funny not one person ever mentioned frozen shares held in Lithuania.
Not managed to read hibs net all weekend, thank you for the home of the truth!

I look forward to the day when the Lithuanian court is asked to unfreeze the shares and refuses, giving the reason that UBIG are part of a wide ranging criminal investigation into the Romanov empire.

At that stage, the Yams will finally have to confront the truth - that Mr Romanov was a crook and that their club was funded through the proceeds of crime. Or to keep it simple for them, they are cheats.

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Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

After a weekend in Edinburgh, I heard all following things;
- They have the shares
- Budge has bought them
- Potter to be manager assisted by Houston

I heard this from various people, yet its funny not one person ever mentioned frozen shares held in Lithuania.
Not managed to read hibs net all weekend, thank you for the home of the truth!

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Any news on when the share certificates are being issued or how they got on with the Champions league win?

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Originally Posted by Seveno

I look forward to the day when the Lithuanian court is asked to unfreeze the shares and refuses, giving the reason that UBIG are part of a wide ranging criminal investigation into the Romanov empire.

At that stage, the Yams will finally have to confront the truth - that Mr Romanov was a crook and that their club was funded through the proceeds of crime. Or to keep it simple for them, they are cheats.

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They won't though. Their interpretation will be "Why should we be punished for a criminal's activities? It was bad enough us being punished for someone else's financial mismanagement, but now we're being punished for an established criminal's wrongdoing! It would be like when your house gets burgled, the burglar gets caught and then you get fined for having had your house burgled."

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Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

Any news on when the share certificates are being issued

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The share certificates are to be issued after the CVA has been completed.

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Originally Posted by StevieC

The share certificates are to be issued after the CVA has been completed.

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:agree:

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

In saying that, for a "new" football club with a large established support, Tynie is worth more as a football stadium (even with only 3 usable stands) than it would be to property developers.

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I would just repeat that, in my opinion, based on the pre mercer decade (when hearts lived within their means and were walloped all over the nation) there is no "large established support" unless there is a large unaccounted for credit card.

As credit is tightened their crowds will drop, in close correlation

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's long been a favourite theory of mine that waiting for them to go Pop and picking them up for a relatively low price was an attractive proposition for someone with money and a maroon scarf.

I am now wondering if AB has half an eye on that very scenario.

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I am sure she has.

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

I'm also thinking that could be her game plan. If they liquidate, she can (like anybody else) get them for buttons, but she already has the goodwill of supporters as she supposedly 'assisted' fan ownership.

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Goodwill counts for nothing in a bidding war.

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Originally Posted by Seveno

But Accountants always make things up. They make up a set of accounts for the taxman, make up a set of accounts for the bank manager and then they make up they real set of accounts for the owner.

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Do you know a good solicitor ?

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

They won't though. Their interpretation will be "Why should we be punished for a criminal's activities? It was bad enough us being punished for someone else's financial mismanagement, but now we're being punished for an established criminal's wrongdoing! It would be like when your house gets burgled, the burglar gets caught and then you get fined for having had your house burgled."

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You forgot to mention in your analogy that the homeowner was standing there the whole time shouting "c'mon the burglar" and celebrating every time he succeeded in taking anything valuable. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by StevieC

The share certificates are to be issued after the CVA has been completed.

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Maybe they can put them on the wall's outside Tynie, similar to what we did with the East Terrace bricks

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Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

I am sure she has.

Goodwill counts for nothing in a bidding war.

Do you know a good solicitor ?

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Generally I would agree, but football always has the potential to mobilise an angry mob. Hibs v Mercer and the reaction of some Hearts fans to Shoeshine Bob Jamieson's intervention spring to mind, and the hostility might be a little rich for the blood of a local person. Though an out of town/country developer wouldn't care about that.

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Originally Posted by The Green Goblin

You forgot to mention in your analogy that the homeowner was standing there the whole time shouting "c'mon the burglar" and celebrating every time he succeeded in taking anything valuable. :greengrin

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:thumbsup: