and wee team forever in our shadow :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
all valid and intelligent arguments.
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and wee team forever in our shadow :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
all valid and intelligent arguments.
Wee team, always in their shadow.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
That sorts all their problems dontcha know?
Sadly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
A Dundee win the previous day will relegate them :greengrin
Does the deduction not only happen when admin starts? And admin will only start when the admin of ukio call in the debt, surely? Given the mess the whole shooting match is in, that might take some time, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
If they go into liquidation and start again as a new club with no ground of their own, can the SFA really admit them back into SFL3 ? I think that Spartans would make a much better case for the vacant spot.
Ukio have been in Administration for months. They were in court and declared bankrupt last Thursday pending a 10 day appeal period. If they own Hearts the penalty should have been months ago when they first entered administration. It has only been since the bankruptcy hearing that the share ownership (everyone thought it was UBIG that owned then) that the bankruptcy company are laying claim to the shares. They should be docked the points now leaving them 5 points behind Dundee. Their SPL fate should be in our hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
anyone got the 1902 game on DVD? :wink: (nice shirt in 1902)Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
You're right about the scale of the debt, although the bigger it is the more likely it is that the administrator will hold out for more - if the debt was only £4m he might well accept £2m in settlement. That's why I think the the debt transfer will cause them real problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyrie
It's worth noting that there are two 'assets' in play here - the PBS, owned by HoMFC but held as security by Ukio and the HoMFC shares, owned by UBIG but apparently also held by Ukio as security. As a business investment the shares are worthless, but the fact that it's a football club with emotional attachments, plus the limited intelligence of those likely to be wanting to buy means the administrator can put some value on them. The PBS is worth whatever the market value is and the administrator is very unlikely to settle for less.
If Lithuanian insolvency laws are similar to those in the UK I think the administrator might seek to reverse the transfer of the £15m debt and go after UBIG for the lot if he can't get a satisfactory amount from dealing with HoMFC. Assuming UBIG still has no directors and their assets are still frozen they'll be a sitting duck and will quickly go under - that may take us beyond the end of the season but if they do I think a points deduction will be the least of the yams worries.
Should be a show on CBEEBIES - "Uncle Vlad's Crazy Projects".
The lithuanian administrator is bound to take all of that into account when he considers how best to recover the money the citizens of Lithuania are out of pocket because of the dear leader and his friends criminality.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Don't mention the war.
Just as an aside in all this, The Hearts website still lists Rodney as their CEO? Is that right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
Been having a peek over on kickback to see what they are saying about their accounts and there has only been 2 posts today on the thread. Both sort of say there must have been an element of forgiveness debt to get their profit and loss to nearly balance without the £ 1.5 million HMRC bill.
Obviously nobody on the site knows any more about the accounts than has been announced on the Yams own site.
One thing I did hear at the weekend , sort of second hand it must be said, was that Johnston Carmichael were not doing these accounts and that the Club had appointed new auditors :confused:. Will be very interested if true !
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...lure-cost.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
:agree: Lets hope that the administrators aren`t the Lithuanian branch of Duff and Phelps....Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
That article is dated 14th Feb.Quote:
Originally Posted by desantos0773
Doesn't mean that the instruction from the Central Bank isn't still in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Disappointed that Shaun Lawson hasn't chipped in on Sickshack. After all, he has his friends relegashaun, administrashaun and liquidashaun to play with.
Brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
I see what you did there....Shaun plays with himself....Ees funny 'cos ees true :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
His Ma has probably stopped wee shaun playing with the bad boys down gorgie way now that the truth is coming out so he will be frantically courting favour on another teams website somewhere. Don't check for him posting after dark though, his ma took the batteries out his torch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
https://newsclient.omxgroup.com/cdsP...ssageId=685432
Gintaras Adomonis, that is the guy who will be dealing with the Ukio Bankas bankruptcy.
Look him up on face book, he looks like one mean son-of-a-bitch. :greengrin
Spartans (and others) were strongly 'advised' by certain 'interested parties' not to bid for entry to the SFL against NewHun last season, I doubt Hearts could exert the same sort of pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
is that a green scarf? :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Maybe we should all have him as our avatar's for a bit?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
:top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by Billy Whizz
AN American property tycoon could be poised to swoop for debt-ridden Hearts.
SunSport can reveal the US investor has been investigating a Jambos buyout.
A UK-based middle man is working on behalf of the Stateside financier. Hearts’ future is shrouded in doubt after Ukio Bankas went bust last month.
The Lithuanian bank is around £300million in the red and owed £15m by the Jambos.
The Tynecastle club’s debt could be called in as administrators Valnetas UAB begin their work.
Any move by the bean counters to recoup the cash owed would almost certainly plunge Hearts into administration.
That could then see Valnetas auction off ownership of the club to the highest bidder.
An alternative could be for them to try to flog off Tynecastle and other assets.
But it’s understood the American’s go-between has already opened lines of communication with Valnetas in a bid to be one step ahead, whatever scenario arises.
Currently all discussions are at a very preliminary stage — but the Yank IS keen to get the ball rolling if the conditions are right.
Valnetas’ presence has freed the club from Vladimir Romanov’s hands.
http://www.thesun.co...l#ixzz2SYaxFHCR
A property tycoon........hmmm?Quote:
Originally Posted by macca70
If this (a big IF as it is the Sun) is true, I can only see this as being bad news for Hearts! Someone can smell a huge profit in the land that the piggery sits upon....Vultures are already circling to feed on the carcass of HoMFC
Let us pray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprouleflyer
Dear Lord, please have mercy on the club known as HOMFC......ah fck it, just kill them, kill them now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TQM
Amen.
Can picture the yams outside Tynecastle kicking cowboy hats about the car park:greengrin
Even the brokebackers are dubious. I'm guessing that it must have been someone close to the property tycoon or Valnetas UAB who told 'The Sun'!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprouleflyer
Vultures? Maybe that should be 'let us prey' then. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by TQM
This is going to be one splendid spring/summer me thinks.
The American wants to swoop as he is keen to keep paying Hearts ongoing tax bill and also to share in the huge profits to be made from them !, cobblers . What's to stop someone putting this story out to try and force the price of the tin shack up ?.
Mickey Forrester...American property tycoon???
Are you guys serious?
Nothing can happen to Hearts just now as long as UBIG still holds ownership (if that is the case?)
What if that article in the herald was right yesterday and ukios actually own them, can they be sold then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay
There's a huge 'if' in that article. I would be hugely surprised if anyone thought Scottish football was a way to make a quick buck ( Sevco excluded).
if the article is right then hearts should be deducted 18 points immediatelyQuote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
Just had a look over on kickback and no mention of any Orc receiving their Hearts Accounts :confused:
Surely one of them must have a postal address or does the whole Royal Mail shut up shop on holiday weekends.
They are already claiming this guy is the white knight :hilariousQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay
Whoa there boy! who is he? have you ever heard of him? what are his assets? what are his motives for this? property tycoon? must mean Tesco's will be getting the land sooner than they thought.
Pathetic and I mean really pathetic, one crook out another one comes in, Yam class as usual
My wife's a shareholder so I'm also keen to see them...still waiting tooQuote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Aye, mikey has told us enough times :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
Just wondered if they'd be able to be sold though?
If the American tycoon thing is true then from a football point of view he is surely being linked with the wrong Edinburgh club. A wee shopping mall would look quite good down Gorgie way though!
I believe so, yes, but given they would almost certainly be in division 1 they would be an even less desireable purchaseQuote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
The Yam's really will just believe whatever they want.
Last week The Sun said they were going into administration and they were calling it a rag of a paper, no truth, check their sources etc
Today The Sun says some American tycoon is buying them and they are taking it as gospel.
Mind you. Brokeback? Cowboys? :cb
I must be being stupid cos I can't find anything bout this property tycoon.
Sorry having a bad morning.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...ambos-bid.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Aldo
Apologies to your wife for referring to her as an Orc ! There are always exceptions to a rule. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay
They think it might be Donald Trump i kid you not , :hilarious i think they are Donald Ducked !.
Correct. The administrator has stated that Ukio Bankas has a claim on 79% of Hearts shares and the last time I looked 79% was enough to confirm ownership.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
I'll keep this simple so any passing Jambos, and Barry, can understand it.
The SPL Rules are clear about this............
A6.8 Where a Club which was a member of the League in the immediately preceding Season takes, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event that Club shall be deducted the greater of 10 points and one third, rounded up to the nearest whole number, of the total number of points, excluding any points deducted for any reason, gained by that Club in the League in the immediately preceding Season and where a Club which was not a member of the League in the immediately preceding Season takes, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event that Club shall be deducted 10 points. Where the Insolvency Event occurs during a Season, the requisite points deduction shall apply immediately. Where the Insolvency Event occurs during the Close Season the requisite points deduction shall apply in respect of the immediately following Season, such that the Club starts that immediately following Season on minus the requisite number of points.
A6.9 Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting for more than one Season then, for each such Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 10 points and shall start each such Season on minus 10 points.
A6.10 In the event that a Club shall take, suffer or be subject to more than one Insolvency Event during any one Season and the immediately preceding Close Season, which, in the opinion of the Board, are not part of the same Insolvency Process, then that Club shall be deducted the requisite number of points determined in accordance with Rule A6.8 in respect of each separate such Insolvency Event.
A6.12 For the purposes of Rules A6.8 to A6.10 (inclusive) all references to a Club taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event and/or an Insolvency Process as well as including the owner and operator of a Club taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event and/or an Insolvency Process shall, if the Board so determines having regard to (i) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League; (ii) the reputation of the League; and (iii) the relationship between such owner and operator and the Group Undertaking concerned, also include any Group Undertaking of such an owner and operator taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event and/or an Insolvency Process.
Taken from here.....
http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...BER%202012.pdf
They should have had the 18 point deduction already. I really don't see how they can avoid it once the 10 day appeal period is up.
Just in case you missed it :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
Can't understand why anyone who doesn't have a connection to hearts would want to buy them, they are a shambles. If you were looking to buy a football club and were actually serious about it then surely you would avoid hearts like the plague
Correct. There's another club in Edinburgh that has very little debt, an up to date stadium and their own training facilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
And the current owner wouldn't be difficult to deal with if the right person came along.
Property tycoon? Bound to be declared a life long Yam soon.handy he is in the property game though, the £51m megasuperhotelstadium must be back on and maybe 2018 is the Champions league date? Christ they might even win another war. The clue might lie in property "tycoon". Maybe he's always wanted a debt ridden cash drain with all the other stigma that goes with this shower, not as if there are any other more viable clubs he could buy if he really wanted one, if indeed he exists!Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
Bitter, bitter hobo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
5-1
1902
You forgot -18Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage East
:hilarious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
What about the ' if the Board so determines ' above? What if 'they' don't determine it? Who are 'they'?
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images.../me_normal.jpg
Barry Anderson @BarryAnderson_
Sergejus Fedotovas tells #Hearts fans £15m debt to Ukio won't be recalled right now & answers other finance questions in today's #EEN.
#HMFC9:11 AM - 7 May 2013
I'd love to sit in on these conversations,
BA: "Awrite Serg, it's Barry is all still barry"
SF: "Yes, all is Barry Barry"
BA: "That's Barry"
Sorry saw that article I think I meant the guy himself. Phone playing silly beggars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
Cheers again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Surely Dundee FC should be all over this?
Mikey- worth emailing the spl a copy of their rules along with a link to the herald article?
If I was involved with Dundee I would be in touch with the spl demanding answers as to why the 18 point penalty has not been applied!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, I'm convinced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
No Fedotovas is right - the £15 million won't be recalled 'right now' - there's still another five days of the appeal to go...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
It's not been applied because no-one knew that the 79% had been transferred from UBIG to Ukio Bankas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimendhibs
They do now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimendhibs
But are the reports just that Ukio have a claim on the shares - so they don't actually own them (yet)?
Without p*ssing on the parade, is the "Claim to 79% of Hearts" not just security pledge by UBIG, i.e. they dont actually own 79% of Hearts, but were they to call in UBIG's debt HEarts would be handed over in the event of non payment?
Barry just sends his wee Lloytron tape recorder round to the PBS in a taxi. An hour later it returns with his daily #allisbarry moonbeams on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
Journalism of the highest order.
How would he know it won't be recalled ?, they are just clinging on and hoping the dafties keep buying ST as it's another week without going on the Lithuanian dole que .
I wonder if 'Allis' Barry thought to ask how the £15m came to be on Ukio's books in the first place when the share offer stated that it was all due to UBIG.
Heard from a couple of sources close to the club that they will do whatever it takes to get to the end of the season before going into admin. Lie, cheat, steal, beg and borrow. So, pretty much business as usual.
Dundee's John Brown should get the guy who does his reading for him pick out the pertinent stuff from this thread. He'll be raging ... or smug.
:hilariousQuote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
Fedotovas is probably right in saying that however at the moment its not the 15 million they need to worry about for the time being at least. It's the debt that UBIG owe UB. As soon as that is recalled UBIG will be declared bankrupt which should (although I wouldn't put anything past the incompetency of the SPL) put Hearts into admin for definite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBean
Correct.
At the moment, UB don't own Hearts, it's just one possibility (though the most likely one) of what will happen next.
Spot on. :top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by HH_MYB
Hearts fans and staff seeming to be pinning their hopes on the fact that they are so insignificant to the administrator that by the time he gets to their debt, they'll have finished the season and be passed the cut off date. I have to assume however that UBIG will be much higher up the list. Possibly even first?
So, if no appeal within the ten days the claim to the shares is valid or what?
I manage to follow the sevco train crash pretty well but this is #allverycomplex and has me puzzled.
I take it after the ten days all debts to ukio are likely to be called in, and assuming ubigs inability to pay, they and in turn homo fc are buggered?
Remember Ukio Bankas have a claim on the shares if UBIG can't repay the £22m that they converted to equity to fund the take over - (pay off Hearts overdraft to HBOS). Once apeal period over then administrtaor will start calling in the UB loans to UBIG (£32m of UBIG's loans lent on to Hearts of which £22m converted to shares) and Hearts (£15m which UB have Tynecastle as security). UBIG will be declared bankrupt and at that point Hearts. Might just miss end of season though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HH_MYB
See my previous post, quite right though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Would it only be if they went into liquidation that the timing wouldn't matter? i.e punted to div 3 or cease to existQuote:
Originally Posted by desantos0773
Even if it does miss the end of season they would still be rodgered as Tynie would be taken away/sold most likely to a property developer which would leave them homeless (or hobo's :wink: ) plus with a depleted squad and a minus against next seasons point tally.Quote:
Originally Posted by desantos0773
I still think we're looking at a Jamco situation here regardless of the time period.
Probably been discussed in one of the previous 433 pages but who is providing banking facilties for their current financial dealings ?
The money for the Season tickets and LC payout must be going somewhere unless its in a tin under the bed .They wouldn't have been putting any of it into UKIO since news of their insolvency
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay
This is actually brilliant, they dont do irony at the PBS. Wonga splashed across the front of their shirts was last straw for me (kind of) regarding taking them seriously. But this is superb. Im going to start referring to them as hobos from now on, really just to confuse them, and once I've then had to explain it, to show up just how stupid they are and also just how donald ducked they really are!
Here's Barry's article. Utter nonsense. It's all just conjecture on Fedotovas part. The general gist is that he's hoping to make a deal with administrator.
What either Fed or Barry fails to mention, is that the Administrator is well within his to listen to these proposals and tell them to bugger off!Quote:
“£15m will not be called automatically. We plan to perform to the agreement and seek in co-operation with the administrator long-term future solutions. We believe that a sensible solution can be reached that satisfies the administrator and maintains the positive business momentum that the club has created.”
He might as well just say "We plan on purchasing several lottery tickets between now and the start of next season and by simply picking 6 correct numbers we can secure the future of Hearts"
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...debt-1-2921887
The fact that the Hearts director was also on the previous UBIG board will probably raise some danger flags to the credibility of any Hearts payment plan.
I wonder why they keep referring to the Administrator when they are Liquidators at this step of the process.
:faf::faf:
Fedotovas answered questions below from the Evening News in the wake of news that Ukio Bankas is to be liquidated:
Q What are Hearts’ plans for paying wages and bills during the summer months with no matches to generate income?
A “The wage bill will drop significantly in summer as much as business costs will go down in low season. We plan that enough cash will be available to take us to the start of the next season. The board is also working on varous investment options to bring more income and investment to the club.”
Q There are some suggestions that UBIG’s 79 per cent shareholding in Hearts has been transferred to Ukio Bankas. Can you tell us if this is true or false?
A “As far as we know it is false. The club had no indication this has happened.”
Q Do you know if the £15m debt Hearts owe Ukio Bankas will be recalled automatically?
A “£15m will not be called automatically. We plan to perform to the agreement and seek in co-operation with the administrator long-term future solutions. We believe that a sensible solution can be reached that satisfies the administrator and maintains the positive business momentum that the club has created.”
Q Do you have an indication of how long the liquidation of Ukio Bankas would take?
A “Ukio bankas is a relatively big business, it may take many months. The administrator will be in a position to advise once he gets hands on.”
Q Is it possible for Hearts to be sold to a new owner at the moment given Vladimir Romanov’s assets are frozen?
A “We believe certain possibilities exist given that all concerned parties will be in agreement.”
Q Bearing in mind the money owed by Hearts to UBIG and Ukio Bankas, what price would Mr Romanov be willing to accept to sell the club?
A “We are working on this at the moment, trying to establish the solution which will be best for Hearts.”
We belive, as far as we know etc are all meaningless reponses which ACTUALLY mean. 'I ken **** all!!' #all is barry
I wish I knew what STF's long term intentions are with the Club. I hope that he puts them in the ownership of a Trust so that we are never owned by a crook, foreigner or both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
He sold Kwik-Fit to Ford so that he could protect the future of the company 'for his people'. Ford pumped money like there was no tomorrow, allowing them to buy all sorts of loss-making concerns. They eventually sold them to a VC who did the usual chop-chop and sold them on to another VC - more chop-chop and asset stripping. They are now in the hands of a Japanese consortium which, given the long term nature of Japanese business decision making, should secure their future. I wouldn't want Hibs to be under any forweign ownership though.
Very considerate of him.:aok:Quote:
More answers may be forthcoming on the 23rd of this month at the club’s annual general meeting, which Fedotovas is expected to attend.
He was a director of UBIG when it happened. How can he not know about it?Quote:
Q There are some suggestions that UBIG’s 79 per cent shareholding in Hearts has been transferred to Ukio Bankas. Can you tell us if this is true or false?
A “As far as we know it is false. The club had no indication this has happened.”
He's speaking as a Hearts director here, not a UBIG one :cbQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
It annoys the hell out of me that the media keep buying the line that they are now self-sustaining. Since when did 'self-sustaining' mean conning your fans out of stumping up more cash, cake sales, face painting and selling club memorabilia. That seems to me to be a series of somewhat short term revenue streams.
Barry not think to ask how Hearts went from 'some banking facilities' to owing Ukio Bankas £15m in 6 months?
#allisShanderson
That one got me too. As a Director of UBIG AND of Hearts he should be in the best possible place to know that. If he knew that UB's claim wasn't valid he would come out and say it. Which leads me to two conclusions:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
1. Seriously no-one knows now what has happened in terms of the money/equity being shifted around from place to place and Hearts are in an even bigger mess than previously thought.
2. He knows that UB's claim is valid but won't want to release his knowledge yet for obvious reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
:tsk tsk: You give him too much credit.
That's all the qualifications for being a Hearts puppet right thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Another question is what is Sergejus Fedotovas hanging around for ? Does he think he will get a position with the new owners if they ever materialise or is he hoping for political asylum or refugee status.Quote:
Originally Posted by HH_MYB
Fedotovas made that comment in February - after Ukio went into interim administration. In October the share offer prospectus stated that all of the debt was due to UBIG and Ukio in administration could not have taken on that debt so it was racked up between the end of October 2012 and February 2013 - and they didn't bother to inform anyone about it. Fedotovas's 'some banking facilities' comment along with the fact that he was a director of UBIG when it was all going on illustrates the character of the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If you believe a word from him I know of a Nigerian prince that's just dying to meet you.
You would think that Barry would also have asked when the share certificates would be sent out while he had the chance.
I keep asking him on Twitter, and he keeps ignoring this specific point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey