Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

Much preferred this thread when we were speculating about them only having a 6% chance of survival. Now the way things are panning out I'd say it's looking more like there's probably only a 6% chance of liquidation.
So what, They'll come out of this in the Championship and financially better off and will feel like they've won a watch.
But they'll still be cheating ratbags.

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Just been looking at how the updated SPFL rules define a "season"
[*] Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;[*] Close Season means the period of the year outside the Season


the other bit of interest is
[*] Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting during a second or later Season then, for each such second or later Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 15 points and shall start each such second or later Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.

the bit in bold gives me the impression that the Yams have until the start of the new season to get out of Admin :rolleyes:

if you can be bothered, here's the link http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__ther...1388495541.pdf

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Its not going to drag on till then they know the new rules and can't be prepared to take that hit . They have more recently been preparing thier fans that administration could drag into March ,the problem is the fans are so up themselves that they just don't listen.if proposed meetings don't take place in February or do and don't reach quick decision knowing it then still has to go throughout the Lithuanian court process then that would be interesting as no idea how long that would take .

There was some talk of Administrators wanting draft documents and agreements in principle signed off Does any one with experience in this area think they could badger new hierarchy to try and say look we have everything in place,here is the written proof ,but we want to be able to come out of administration before it goes through the court in lithuania.

Baj, I've been trying to hazard a guess as to how much the BDO " supervision " is costing HOMFC.

Is there any way your source would have a clue as to the figure ?

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Originally Posted by EK_Hibs

Much preferred this thread when we were speculating about them only having a 6% chance of survival. Now the way things are panning out I'd say it's looking more like there's probably only a 6% chance of liquidation.
So what, They'll come out of this in the Championship and financially better off and will feel like they've won a watch.
But they'll still be cheating ratbags.

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It looks very bleak for Hearts, how do you come to this conclusion that they'll come out of this in any decent financial state?

Dunfermline were governed by the old SPL rules that have now been superseded by the new SPFL rules (voted in by ALL the SPFL clubs) that state that if a club is 'still' in admin at the start of a new season (i.e. the first league game ) then a 15 point deduction comes into force no matter what division they are in.
IF a club exits Admin but goes back into Admin within 5 years then a 25 point deduction applies, as told to the the rankgers when they enquired what would happen to them if they went into admin AGAIN !!

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Originally Posted by The Governor

It looks very bleak for Hearts, how do you come to this conclusion that they'll come out of this in any decent financial state?

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If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

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Their balance sheet will certainly look a lot better. Not too sure they're going to find it easy to adjust to spending just what they earn, especially just what they're going to earn in the championship ... or where they're going to find the money to rebuild their crumbling hovel?

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

If the cva is approved in a timely manner, they are, by definition, better off.

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And if my auntie had balls....

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Originally Posted by Jack

About the subsequent points penalty.

With regard to the UBIG shares, and possibly the UKIO ones. Am I right in thinking that some of these shares will have been acquired in the debt for equity swaps? £20+ million worth?

Another hazy memory is that this was a bit dodgy so perhaps how these came about will be the subject of more legal scrutiny than might otherwise have been in the already #allverycomplicated legal proceedings.

A dodgy UK company, the yams; dodgy Lithuanian companies; dodgy share transfer. Anyone any idea which country any court case would be heard in?

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This is exactly what I have been thinking:agree:
shares were being used as a tool to hide the true extent of the debt.
if this mechanism was used throught Vlads empire,then this would result in a no stone unturned,heavy dutie thorough investigation/court case that could last for years and years.
i have a hunch that the admins of UBIG and UKIO know this"hence the lack of urgency" and can just say yes no probs to anything verbally but can't give timescales for written agreements.

Wonder if this is Bandersons stamp



Attachment 11837

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Originally Posted by The Governor

And if my auntie had balls....

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She'd have to have one glass one to say whether or not the cva would be approved.

No one knows; not even your ball-less auntie.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Their balance sheet will certainly look a lot better. Not too sure they're going to find it easy to adjust to spending just what they earn, especially just what they're going to earn in the championship ... or where they're going to find the money to rebuild their crumbling hovel?

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Essentially hearts will be the same as us. Relying on season tickets, matchdays, merchandise and player sales to fund their playing squad, wages, taxes, maintenance etc but wih a low level debt. (Well, initially)

They won't have a new stand but if they get away with around £26m debt frankly they will be thinking so what?

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Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

Its not going to drag on till then they know the new rules and can't be prepared to take that hit . They have more recently been preparing thier fans that administration could drag into March ,the problem is the fans are so up themselves that they just don't listen.if proposed meetings don't take place in February or do and don't reach quick decision knowing it then still has to go throughout the Lithuanian court process then that would be interesting as no idea how long that would take .

There was some talk of Administrators wanting draft documents and agreements in principle signed off Does any one with experience in this area think they could badger new hierarchy to try and say look we have everything in place,here is the written proof ,but we want to be able to come out of administration before it goes through the court in lithuania.

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You're looking at this from a football perspective. The hit is a football hit and they have no choice in the matter if it get to that stage. If they don't get the shares then they don't get out of admin, no matter how much they really, really, really want to, and even then there is no guarantee that it'll be in time for August.

#allisnotbarry
#allisexceedinglybleak
#allispleasingforhibbiedom

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

A few theories have been floated on here:-

1. they have done their homework, and deduced that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

2. they have not done their homework, and have been "persuaded" that they won't get any more in a liquidation.

3. they have known for some time that liquidation is the most likely route, in which case they might get more; approving the CVA is just a political move to make them look less like the bad boys.

I'm not sure which I believe. I'd like to think that 1 is the most likely, but then I'm not privy to the way these guys think.

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Obviously I prefer 3. Because it has given them hope and then snatched it away. It seems a bit heartless (appropriately enough) perhaps but a longer process is more cruel (i.e more fun for us).

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Originally Posted by Twa Cairpets

You're looking at this from a football perspective. The hit is a football hit and they have no choice in the matter if it get to that stage. If they don't get the shares then they don't get out of admin, no matter how much they really, really, really want to, and even then there is no guarantee that it'll be in time for August.

#allisnotbarry
#allisexceedinglybleak
#allispleasingforhibbiedom

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I can't imagine the Lithuanian legal process being a quick one. Not sure what leverage BDO would have, if any, for getting it pushed through quickly.

First off, in the event Barry's magic stamp even works they'll have a lower income in the championship (attendances, tv money, prize money and sponsorship), they'll surely find it hard to get credit so even controlled borrowing will be out, maintenance and running Tynie will still cost a fair bit. Better than they are now but it's not going to be a "happy ever after" scenario.

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Originally Posted by The Governor

First off, in the event Barry's magic stamp even works they'll have a lower income in the championship (attendances, tv money, prize money and sponsorship), they'll surely find it hard to get credit so even controlled borrowing will be out, maintenance and running Tynie will still cost a fair bit. Better than they are now but it's not going to be a "happy ever after" scenario.

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I think what some people are saying is if that's the way it pans out they aren't exactly doing the time for having done the crime. The club effectively robbed a wide range of organisations and individuals including tax payers and charities. Blew the dough and their punishment is relegation and having to learn to live like the other middle income clubs in Scotland. A fair number of merricks will say it was worth it. Personally I was hoping for something worse for them (still am).

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Originally Posted by The Governor

First off, in the event Barry's magic stamp even works they'll have a lower income in the championship (attendances, tv money, prize money and sponsorship), they'll surely find it hard to get credit so even controlled borrowing will be out, maintenance and running Tynie will still cost a fair bit. Better than they are now but it's not going to be a "happy ever after" scenario.

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They also have tae rely on the diddies tae keep paying up otherwise a lot of their other income will have tae be used tae pay that back. I wonder if anybody had ever ran a successful business on the basis of voluntary DD's, if no, why no :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

They also have tae rely on the diddies tae keep paying up otherwise a lot of their other income will have tae be used tae pay that back. I wonder if anybody had ever ran a successful business on the basis of voluntary DD's, if no, why no :greengrin

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The DD's are an additional income to their season ticket money, matchday income, merchandise and player sales surely.

As far as I am aware we don't get any additional investment from anywhere else or am I missing something?

What's this 'Stamp' thing all about?
Has Barry Anderson been bumping his gums about a load of rubbish again?

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Originally Posted by EK_Hibs

Much preferred this thread when we were speculating about them only having a 6% chance of survival. Now the way things are panning out I'd say it's looking more like there's probably only a 6% chance of liquidation.
So what, They'll come out of this in the Championship and financially better off and will feel like they've won a watch.
But they'll still be cheating ratbags.

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Do clubs that hae suffered an insovency event generally rise like a Phoenix from the flames though?

Ask, Livingston, Dundee, Leeds Utd, Portsmouth and the answer is most likely, no they dont.... Even ask The Rangers how it's going for them.....

Years of financial hardship generally endure as these clubs are forced to live within their means...

Only club that seems to have done reasonably since an administration is Motherwell as far as I can tell.
:cb

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Originally Posted by HibbySpurs

Do clubs that hae suffered an insovency event generally rise like a Phoenix from the flames though?

Ask, Livingston, Dundee, Leeds Utd, Portsmouth and the answer is most likely, no they dont.... Even ask The Rangers how it's going for them.....

Years of financial hardship generally endure as these clubs are forced to live within their means...

Only club that seems to have done reasonably since an administration is Motherwell as far as I can tell.
:cb

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Disbelief will be followed by shock as the 'Big Team' fantasies are confronted by 'skint team' reality.

Assuming they do manage to start next season, I do hope Anne Budge gets her way and instals Levein as manager. Here is a man with a wildly inflated view of his own worth - a perfect match. If they get another 15 point deduction they'll do well to avoid a second relegation in two seasons.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

The DD's are an additional income to their season ticket money, matchday income, merchandise and player sales surely.

As far as I am aware we don't get any additional investment from anywhere else or am I missing something?

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The DD's are tae pay back the money FOF will be borrowing if they manage tae buy the club. The whole plans is based on those voluntary DD's. When those DD's from the diddes start tae dwindle as they surely will, the money tae pay back the loans from the biddies will need tae come from their other income.

Anybody any idea what the prize money would be for finishing say 6th in the Championship next year? Also what do you get for being the worst team in the SPFL or whatever its called now?

I heard the safety certificate for main stand expires in March....which should be fun.

Can anyone confirm this?

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I can't imagine the Lithuanian legal process being a quick one. Not sure what leverage BDO would have, if any, for getting it pushed through quickly.

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You know what Spike.
That is the happiest, most upbeat post I think you've ever made.
#Spikeisbarry
:wink::greengrin

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I can't imagine the Lithuanian legal process being a quick one. Not sure what leverage BDO would have, if any, for getting it pushed through quickly.

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That's quite cheery, are you ok? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Ryan69

I heard the safety certificate for main stand expires in March....which should be fun.

Can anyone confirm this?

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They have been given a year's grace each year and told it is the last time for the last 10 14 years. Nothing is going to change this year.

Hibs and Hearts were told to sort out their main stands or they would have to close them in 2000. Only one team did - at great cost.

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Originally Posted by Ryan69

I heard the safety certificate for main stand expires in March....which should be fun.

Can anyone confirm this?

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Not a problem....... That nugget Cardownie will make sure its signed off...... :wink:

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Originally Posted by TrinityHibs

Anybody any idea what the prize money would be for finishing say 6th in the Championship next year? Also what do you get for being the worst team in the SPFL or whatever its called now?

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Fill yer boots



.http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/a...econstruction/