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Withey "Is that not the same questionjust asked in a different way" Lady Stacey "Can you help usout?"
AD shows court an email from Withey to asolicitor representing Jerome pensions Reads in part "at this moment intime no monies can be sent
Donald Findlay rises to object to thedocument, Lady Stacey sends jury home "Experience tells me this is goingto take more than 5 mins.
If I had realised that woud happen I wouldn’t have sent theafternoon in two blocks :greengrin
As ever, thanks for the updates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
My reading (and, without being in the Court, it's difficult to know) is that the AD is being harder on GW than he has been on the earlier witnesses. Maybe because, in different circumstances, GW himself would have been in the dock.... and therefore has some of the evidence to sink CW.
DF's cross-examination is going to be fun.
Agreed, I have not always bothered with the AD questioning, but this felt different. Still a lot of memory loss though. I particularly like the "I don't remember signing, it doesn't look like my signature" line from GW. What, you don't read the papers before you sign them, surely that is what you are paid for!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://thecelticblog.com/2017/05/bl...-heavens-fall/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Advocate deputy A(lex) Prentice. Small chuckle at that
No live tweeting of Craig Whyte trialtoday.
For legal reasons can't comment on why nolive tweets Will post updates during breaks
Won't affect us to much as that is what I've been doing anyway.
Security measures?????Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Some Celtc minded people have disappeared down the Resolution 12 rabbit hole. I've followed this quite closely and yet I am struggling to make sense of this latest blog.
The Advocate Depute is questioning formerlawyer Gary Withey
Withey: "I thought of something oddlast night can I explain
AD: let's stick to the traditionalstructure, I ask the questions and you answer"
AD Asks about Jerome group "retirementbenefits plan"
Withey email shown to court "the loanhas been to the club" £2,925,000.
Withey: "The surprising thing is thatthe money arrived in the first place
I can't think of any deal where the moneyarrived before the legal documents"
Advocate Depute "Did you anticipatemoney was going to have to be paid to the seller?" Withey "It was apound"
AD "Are there such things assolicitors account rules?" Withey: "Yes, but ask me if I've ever readthem?"
AD "Did you ever receive writteninstructions to move the money, think carefully you are under oath" Withey"I'm not sure"
AD "Did you know of any connectionbetween Mr Whyte and the Jerome group?
Withey says he had never heard of theJerome group, adds "Mr Whyte had significant power..I'd never seen thisbefore"
Withey asked about engaging with Scottishlaw, replies "It's like another language"
Withey on dealing with Murray Group"They were concerned, didn't want to suffer embarrassment
Says was unusual Mike McGill was writingdirectly to him rather than through his lawyer.
Adds "He wanted comfort that thiswouldn't turn into an embarrassing mess for everyone"
Withey on Murray "They never asked whowas financing the deal, they didn't seem to care
Continues: "Only deal I've ever workedon where the vendor was pushing so hard, they were desperate to get the dealover the line"
AD asks if any mention of Ticketus Withey "The answer is no but there is abigger story behind it, but you ask the questions"
Withey: "My personal view is that the Ticketus money was known about."
Withey "I was told by Mr Whyte not to show the Ticketus money...but theydidn't ask."
Court takes morning break
(My bold for emphasis)
He's never read the Solicitors' Accounts Rules?Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
:rolleyes:
Maybe there's a reason he is an Ex solicitor :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Whatever the reason they are twitchy around the high court today, during my lunchtime stroll there were the usual 2 coppers standing outside and there was a paparazzi car parked opposite, there were 3 cop cars milling around and a bike cop parked on the corner of Clyde St facing the wrong way, the polis helicopter has being doing circuits in the area for no apparent reason, as well as the usual mounties going for a stroll around Glasgow Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
I think I almost bumped into CW walking back to court, but he was on his own so I assume it wasnt him, as he wouldnt be out walking the streets of the weej on his own for fear of a lynching.
Can I ask a stupid question, what is this costing the tax payer, whyte probably on legal aid?
Rest of morning session
Email 26 October 2010, Withey email toStuart MacLean Confirms Liberty Capital have funds to complete purchase
AD What basis for this Withey "I wouldhave been told...you have to trust your client"
Withey: "We are saying we have theability to produce the funds" AD "That's not what it says"
Withey "The deal was the pound and thebank debt"
AD "There was a persistence fromMurray that you had the money?"
Withey "They didn't want theembarrassment of the deal not completing....They realised we had to get thefinancing in place
Withey "I got, I guess a thousand emails"Advocate Depute "I know, we've seen them"
Email, Withey confirms he has £27.5m inclient account" AD is that true? Withey "I believed it was held inclient account, I got that wrong
Witness "I couldn't give comfort toMurray group unless I got comfort. Comes back the the trust issue
If I didn't trust my client I would havewalked away" (there is that walkingaway again J )
Friday 6 May 2011, deal completed in EdinburghWithey says
Adds "Rangers were playing Celtic atthe weekend and Murray wanted to say we had a new owner"
Withey: "We'd all had enough of it, wewere all tired and wanted it to go away"
Withey "The deal was complete and thepound was paid across, the physical one pound for the shares"
Withey says Takeover panel didn't ruleuntil 6pm. Says offered a bankers draft to Murray but this was rejected as took3 days to clear
Withey "I was sure I could completethe Ticketus deal on the Friday, but I ran out of time"
Says would need a board meeting but"would just be Craig Whyte and Phill Betts"
AD asks if there was a commitment to paythe bank debt? Withey "Yes, and we did"
AD "The money used was the Ticketusmoney" Withey "Yes"
Withey: "What Ticketus want Ticketusget, if they wanted me to dance around naked I would have done it"
Withey "Ticketus were aware theirmoney was to be used to pay off the bank debt."
Judge "I know we are all feeling a bit unwell, thereare lots of coughs and splutters"
Withey "Am I speaking loudly enough?" LadyStacey "Not really, to be frank"
Withey agrees that Whyte could not sellseats to Ticketus until he was the owner of Rangers
LUNCH
nah can't be on legal aid - I heard that his wealth is off the radarQuote:
Originally Posted by DarlingtonHibee
I thought it was odd when you noted "The Advocate Depute is questioning formerlawyer Gary Withey"Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
I assumed what was meant was the former lawyer of Craig Whyte.
According to this, he is still a solicitor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/soli...152807.article
He resigned from Collyer Bristow, though, who ended up paying £24m to the Oldco's liquidators.
Last for today
Advocate Depute continues hiscross-examination of former solicitor Gary Withey
AD "did you have a missing link,Rangers got the Ticketus money but Wavetower had to pay the bank?"
Withey "This was missed by everyoneuntil the Monday, Ticketus missed it too"
AD "But you were corporatelawyer" Withey "I was under resourced
AD "What were you being paidfor?" Withey agrees he missed key clause in agreement. "Was beingworked on by my assistant"
AD: "You took your fee however"Withey: "3 months later" AD: "Is your answer yes" Withey:"Yes" AD: "You took your fee however" Withey: "3months later" AD: "Is your answer yes" Withey: "Yes"
9 May 2011 minutes of a Rangers boardmeeting in London Craig Whyte and Phillip Betts
Purpose was to authorise the Ticketusagreement started from 2011, lasted until 2015. Was passed.
AD "Did you have a plan on how thingswere to work, a timetable?" Withey "I don't think so"
Advocate Depute shows Withey email from himincluding timetable Withey says is a "draft timetable"
Advocate Depute ends Donald Findlay QCrises to cross-examine for the defence.
DF "You say anything you did had to beauthorised by the client, that is a gross overstatement"
Phone rings in court. Findlay asks whoeverhas it to turn it off or leave
Findlay asks when is a deal completed?Withey: "When contracts signed and exchanged."
DF "And you could hand the contract tome and I could..*rips up piece of paper* adds "It's when the deal iscompleted"
DF "Who was desperate to complete thisdeal" Withey "Murray"
DF "A client has to be able to trusthis lawyer, especially on technical details"
DF suggests the only way to pay"immediately" is to hand over a "suitcase full of cash"
Cheque takes time to clear, electronictransfer can "take a weekend" if bank shut on a Friday night.
Would we say "that's the whole dealnullified, let's all go home" Suggests "immediately" means"as soon as practicable"
Findlay asks if Ticketus was a secretWithey, "was impossible to keep a secret"
DF "Worst kept secret in history"
Court then adjourned. No proceedingstomorrow, witness asked to return Monday, 10am
Until Next Week.
And we are back.
sit back and get the popcorn out
Proceedings resume at 10.05 with defenceAdvocate Donald Findlay QC continuing his cross examination of Crown WitnessGary Withey
Witness says he acted as an advisor toHeart of Midlothian at flotation, also Crystal Palace
Findlay "Most football clubs arelimited companies, larger ones are public limited companies"
Findlay "do you have to tell thetakeover panel what you are doing or does it find out through divineintervention?"
Withey says this is done through thecorporate adviser, "the takeover panel doesnt like dealing withlawyers"
Withey on the Albion car park: "It wasa very odd sale and leaseback agreement."
Withey says a purchaser would usuallydisclose source of finance in takeover document Seller would also makedisclosure.
Withey says takeover panel should have beeninformed about Ticketus finance for Whyte's Rangers' bid.
"I told My Whyte he had no choice, itwasn't his decision to make..the takeover rules mean you had to disclose yourfinancing"
Withey agrees the seller of Rangers wouldalso have access to the Ticketus finance information if it was asked for
Findlay "from 2010 Mr Whyte was clearthe Ticketus money would be used to pay off the bank debt owed to Lloyds"
Withey on Ticketus deal "more than 80people knew about it"
Findlay "A secretary in London mightbe a Rangers supporter..is a world-wide brand..it would spread quickly'
Withey says David Grier knew about theTicketus deal, Findlay "are you saying he lied to a judge?"
Withey adds that Duff and Phelps were alsoaware of Ticketus deal,
Findlay asks if Murray International knewabout Ticketus deal? Withey "I dont know"
Withey says he would confirm a client'sidentity with: "A passport and a utility bill."
Withey says modern takeover "datarooms" are usually virtual environments that update automatically.
This was a box cupboard with a small deskand 6 files."
Withey says there were only 5 files in thedata room: "for a club that's been going for over 100 years, I wasshocked"
Witness says there was nothing in the dataroom about the "small tax case" only found out about it later.
"I was told it was always in the dataroom, but it wasn't"
Withey "the big tax case seemed toswamp everything in the end, but it wasn't in the data room"
Withey: "I told Mr Whyte he would bemad to go ahead with this transaction and he should walk away"
Withey says Andrew Ellis was "involvedin the transaction throughout"
Witness says reference in letter to "aUK financial institution" did not mean a bank: "A bank is called abank"
Deal at this point was £5.5m for shares and£27m for the bank Findlay "no tax case? no money for stadium falling tobits?"
Withey says at time of letter (November2010) he didn't know about the small tax case
More to follow….
Findlay "Most football clubs arelimited companies, larger ones are public limited companies"
A real scunner to the Huns who keep saying that the football club is separate from the limited company. To everyone else, including Findlay, they're one and the same.
I had to read the bit about the data room three times before I believed my eyes. The amount of information for any sizeable company would keep a small team busy for weeks.
My next question for the witness would beQuote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
"Was there a paper shredder in the room"?
The gift that keeps on giving
Withey says around £24m borrowed fromTicketus, was kept in a deposit account" Could only be released if bothparties authorised it.
Findlay Asks about 3rd party funding Witheysays is very common adds "They don't like to use their own money
Findlay on 3rd party funding "it's arisk" Withey "look at Lehman brothers"
Findlay shows court Share PurchaseAgreement between Murray and Whyte, it mentions "third party funding"
Findlay How could a lawyer not be aware ofthat means?" Withey "They could just ask, 'who is it?" Findlay"Did they?' Withey "No"
Withey continues "I was staggered thatthey didn't..they deleted the line [in the agreement] asking about thefunding"
Findlay says of mention of 3rd partyfunding in the agreement "it's not going to go away, although some peoplemight like it to."
Findlay says Murray Group"recommended" Ticketus to him for working capital
Withey says Murray Group told him: "Why not useTicketus, we use them all the time, they're really good."
Withey says he doubts anyone ever handedover a physical pound to pay for the shares. Findlay: "They could haveused it as a souvenir"
Withey says intention was to transfer moneyon Friday but didn't happen. Lloyds charged "interest over the weekend,which was a bit cheeky"
Findlay "Was it Mr Whyte's fault themoney wasn't paid in the Friday?" Withey "It was nothing to do withhim" Findlay "was a glitch"
Witness agrees Ticketus was aware loan wasto be used to pay back the bank debt Says "We were trying to get the samedeal as the club got"
Findlay asks what is wrong legally with acompany going to a third party and making an agreement subject to taking overanother company
Withey "I don't see anything wrongwith it"
Findlay: if Murray wanted a condition thatthe bank was paid by purchasers own funds he could have put that in agreement?
Withey "They could do what they wanted
Withey says clause in Share PurchaseAgreement about spending £5m a year on players was "window dressing"
Adds "It was an intention" notlegally enforceable.
Findlay "this is valuelessnonsense" Withey "it was very peculiar
Findlay on the £1.7m bill for the stadium"football was played the next season, something must have been done"
Withey "I believe they got a safetycertificate"
Withey says non-embarrassment clause was inagreement to avoid bad publicity for Murray
Findlay suggests a budget of £5m forplayers would be as useful as "a plaster on a slash wound" I thought I misread that one
Findlay "These are undertakings fromMr Whyte to Mr Whyte" as he controlled the company "he asks himselffor the money?"
Withey on the agreement "I've neverseen anything like it before, it didn't make any sense."
Isn't this financial assistance? I though that Whyte was charged with this, but there seems very little discussion about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
And I thought Withey was a lawyer. Shouldn't he know this stuff?
I thought the Glasers SD did a similar thing when acquiring man utd?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Good point. The Glasers borrowed heavily to buy Man U and then transferred the debt into the company. I think that Man U are still paying it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibs0666
It has been a standard way for Venture Capitalists to buy companies and then saddle them with debt. They often try to reduce the debt by selling the acquisitions property and then leasing it back.
Findlay on the £1.7m bill for the stadium"football was played the next season, something must have been done"
Withey "I believe they got a safety-certificate"
Was Withey winking and making 'Nudge-nudge' geatures when giving this reply ??. Straight from 'something must have been done' to 'I believe they got a safety-certificate' ??. No explanation in between the question and the answer of what, if any, work (and costs) that was carried out to see that the safety-certificate was given ?
But in their case they didn't pretend to the lenders that they were Man U., which is what CW is accused of doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
You are not allowed the use a company's own assets to fund your takeover bid though. Effectively, this is what Whyte did.