The Trans Rights Debate

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Kathleen Stock: Protests at Oxford Union as talk goes ahead - BBC News

Credit to Stock for refusing to be shut down. With Cherry doing likewise in Edinburgh we're hopefully starting to see folk showing a bit of backbone here. Edinburgh University should take note.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Kathleen Stock: Protests at Oxford Union as talk goes ahead - BBC News

Credit to Stock for refusing to be shut down. With Cherry doing likewise in Edinburgh we're hopefully starting to see folk showing a bit of backbone here. Edinburgh University should take note.

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Ironically 95% of people would agree with what Kathleen Stock has to say that a man can't magically become a woman, the 5% who are trying to prevent Kathleen Stock from speaking at the Oxford Union are doing so because they know their arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w75i-65HDqY

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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It's been nice and quiet with normal discussions, let's hope the bickering doesn't start again.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Board has obviously opened up again. Discussion over and back to point scoring. [emoji849]


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There's surely plenty to discuss around these attempts to shut down free speech?

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Originally Posted by 147lothian

Ironically 95% of people would agree with what Kathleen Stock has to say that a man can't magically become a woman, the 5% who are trying to prevent Kathleen Stock from speaking at the Oxford Union are doing so because they know their arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w75i-65HDqY

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As Stock said last night: "If you don't go with reality it will hit you in the face. You can't overcome your body. When you are lost in the fiction and can't talk about reality you've got a problem."

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Originally Posted by He's here!

There's surely plenty to discuss around these attempts to shut down free speech?

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You weren't too keen when it was Gary Linekar.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

As Stock said last night: "If you don't go with reality it will hit you in the face. You can't overcome your body. When you are lost in the fiction and can't talk about reality you've got a problem."

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Isn't it ironic that it was right wingers that had a problem with free speech in 1970's they campaigned to get Monty Pythons, The Life of Brian banned, because it poked fun at religious dogma.

Everyone laughed at the absurdity of Stan when he said that he wanted to be a woman, and that a man can get pregnant. If the Life of Brian was made today, people that call themselves left wing, would be dissolving into a puddle from their own tears at how offensive this would be to them, I would say that there is nothing left wing about these new puritan's, because they say nothing about economic issues and it all goes to show how cancel culture is the midwife of stupidity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R79yYo2aOZs

There was a channel 4 documentary last night on the subject anyone catch it ,I've not yet

Review sounds interesting

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...P=share_btn_tw

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other


A very interesting comment piece in the observer.

I had a gay couple in the taxi yesterday, going up to Fountainbridge for brunch, one had a summer dress on, handbag and earrings, other shorts and shirt, it's still a bit strange seeing it but TBH not overly fussed what people want to wear nowadays. I said in a light hearted manner " so it's a summers dress type of day today" he laughed and said yes, he said he still gets looked at strangely but will do his own thing nonetheless. I said said well done you, do what you want and sod anyone who gives you grief, got a decent tip and left a happy punter at his destination. Basically life's too short to worry about others and what they are or what they wear, be nice and accept we're all different, it makes the world a better place.

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Originally Posted by J-C

I had a gay couple in the taxi yesterday, going up to Fountainbridge for brunch, one had a summer dress on, handbag and earrings, other shorts and shirt, it's still a bit strange seeing it but TBH not overly fussed what people want to wear nowadays. I said in a light hearted manner " so it's a summers dress type of day today" he laughed and said yes, he said he still gets looked at strangely but will do his own thing nonetheless. I said said well done you, do what you want and sod anyone who gives you grief, got a decent tip and left a happy punter at his destination. Basically life's too short to worry about others and what they are or what they wear, be nice and accept we're all different, it makes the world a better place.

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Couldn’t agree more.[emoji106]


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Originally Posted by J-C

I had a gay couple in the taxi yesterday, going up to Fountainbridge for brunch, one had a summer dress on, handbag and earrings, other shorts and shirt, it's still a bit strange seeing it but TBH not overly fussed what people want to wear nowadays. I said in a light hearted manner " so it's a summers dress type of day today" he laughed and said yes, he said he still gets looked at strangely but will do his own thing nonetheless. I said said well done you, do what you want and sod anyone who gives you grief, got a decent tip and left a happy punter at his destination. Basically life's too short to worry about others and what they are or what they wear, be nice and accept we're all different, it makes the world a better place.

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This x100.

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Originally Posted by J-C

I had a gay couple in the taxi yesterday, going up to Fountainbridge for brunch, one had a summer dress on, handbag and earrings, other shorts and shirt, it's still a bit strange seeing it but TBH not overly fussed what people want to wear nowadays. I said in a light hearted manner " so it's a summers dress type of day today" he laughed and said yes, he said he still gets looked at strangely but will do his own thing nonetheless. I said said well done you, do what you want and sod anyone who gives you grief, got a decent tip and left a happy punter at his destination. Basically life's too short to worry about others and what they are or what they wear, be nice and accept we're all different, it makes the world a better place.

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It’s really such an easy thing and would solve a lot of the problems with our world.

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Originally Posted by J-C

I had a gay couple in the taxi yesterday, going up to Fountainbridge for brunch, one had a summer dress on, handbag and earrings, other shorts and shirt, it's still a bit strange seeing it but TBH not overly fussed what people want to wear nowadays. I said in a light hearted manner " so it's a summers dress type of day today" he laughed and said yes, he said he still gets looked at strangely but will do his own thing nonetheless. I said said well done you, do what you want and sod anyone who gives you grief, got a decent tip and left a happy punter at his destination. Basically life's too short to worry about others and what they are or what they wear, be nice and accept we're all different, it makes the world a better place.

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I think that's all fine. The problems arise when people getting to live their life impacts on others trying to live theirs.

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Originally Posted by archie

I think that's all fine. The problems arise when people getting to live their life impacts on others trying to live theirs.

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That would rule out a **** load of freedoms we all take for granted.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

That would rule out a **** load of freedoms we all take for granted.

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Almost all of them in fact?!

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

That would rule out a **** load of freedoms we all take for granted.

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How?

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Almost all of them in fact?!

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Again, how?

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Originally Posted by archie

I think that's all fine. The problems arise when people getting to live their life impacts on others trying to live theirs.

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How would living their lives as they wish impact on others,unless what they do is illegal. We're talking about two gay guys, one wearing a dress and having the freedom to do so without harassment or ridicule, I honestly think you're controversial and argumentative deliberately just to get a reaction and that in my mind is trolling.

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Originally Posted by J-C

How would living their lives as they wish impact on others,unless what they do is illegal. We're talking about two gay guys, one wearing a dress and having the freedom to do so without harassment or ridicule, I honestly think you're controversial and argumentative deliberately just to get a reaction and that in my mind is trolling.

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I don't see how what I've said is trolling. I genuinely think it's none of my business how people choose to lead their life. Of course they should be able to lead their life without harassment or ridicule. But surely you don't believe that can be unconstrained? You must be familiar in the trans rights debate on the issues around single sex spaces, including prisons, single sex health and social care and so on.

To move it from the trans issue, you might remember the naked rambler. He wanted, for whatever reason, to ramble naked. He wanted to live his life as he choose. Unfortunately in doing that he kept getting lifted and jailed. I couldn't see that him being repeatedly jailed did anyone any good. But what about people who, for whatever reason, didn't want to see him naked? How do you balance his rights with those of others?

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Originally Posted by archie

I don't see how what I've said is trolling. I genuinely think it's none of my business how people choose to lead their life. Of course they should be able to lead their life without harassment or ridicule. But surely you don't believe that can be unconstrained? You must be familiar in the trans rights debate on the issues around single sex spaces, including prisons, single sex health and social care and so on.

To move it from the trans issue, you might remember the naked rambler. He wanted, for whatever reason, to ramble naked. He wanted to live his life as he choose. Unfortunately in doing that he kept getting lifted and jailed. I couldn't see that him being repeatedly jailed did anyone any good. But what about people who, for whatever reason, didn't want to see him naked? How do you balance his rights with those of others?

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My post had nothing to do with the well documented problems with the trans rights issues which I admit the SG got drastically wrong and the naked rambler broke the law around decency in public, so in his case more fool him. I posted a scenario in my taxi that I thought should show that if we all just let people be themselves, the world may be a better place, it was to point out homophobia and hatred should be a thing of the past and maybe life would be a better place.

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Originally Posted by J-C

My post had nothing to do with the well documented problems with the trans rights issues which I admit the SG got drastically wrong and the naked rambler broke the law around decency in public, so in his case more fool him. I posted a scenario in my taxi that I thought should show that if we all just let people be themselves, the world may be a better place, it was to point out homophobia and hatred should be a thing of the past and maybe life would be a better place.

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To be fair, homophobia has nothing to do with the trans debate going on at the moment. They are two separate issues and we need to be careful not to conflate them.

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Originally Posted by J-C

My post had nothing to do with the well documented problems with the trans rights issues which I admit the SG got drastically wrong and the naked rambler broke the law around decency in public, so in his case more fool him. I posted a scenario in my taxi that I thought should show that if we all just let people be themselves, the world may be a better place, it was to point out homophobia and hatred should be a thing of the past and maybe life would be a better place.

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Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

To be fair, homophobia has nothing to do with the trans debate going on at the moment. They are two separate issues and we need to be careful not to conflate them.

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The guy was wearing a dress, was he trans or just a gay guy wearing a dress? sometimes we need to look at these people as simply humans doing what they feel is natural and get on with our own lives. If a man is portraying as a woman and he gets grief in the street, that would be homophobia, whether he had a wig on or not.

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Originally Posted by J-C

The guy was wearing a dress, was he trans or just a gay guy wearing a dress? sometimes we need to look at these people as simply humans doing what they feel is natural and get on with our own lives. If a man is portraying as a woman and he gets grief in the street, that would be homophobia, whether he had a wig on or not.

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To answer your first question, I've absolutely no idea, how could I possibly know that? And to me it makes absolutely no difference. You are the one raising the question about this guys identification.

My point was simply is that this is a very nuanced debate and conflating homophobia with some people's concerns around the trans movement are completely different things.

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Originally Posted by archie

How?

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If you smoke, chances are someone will be passive smoking with you. You drive a car it effects the air quality. You have a party at home, neighbours might lose sleep. You eat white rice and valuable farming land for brown rice needed to sustain local nourishment in some countries gets lost.

The list is endless.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

If you smoke, chances are someone will be passive smoking with you. You drive a car it effects the air quality. You have a party at home, neighbours might lose sleep. You eat white rice and valuable farming land for brown rice needed to sustain local nourishment in some countries gets lost.

The list is endless.

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I'm actually staggered that anyone would find the point about how individual freedoms can clash against other people's individual freedoms is an any way exceptional. A key part of government, citizenry and society is how we regulate and control individual freedoms to make society work. That's why so many of these areas are regulated and why we accept it. When the citizenry doesn't accept it the the social contract fails.

I'm genuinely interested in what I'm missing here.

Rishi Sunak caught mocking transgender people in front of the 1922 committee.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ke-to-tory-mps

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Originally Posted by archie

I'm actually staggered that anyone would find the point about how individual freedoms can clash against other people's individual freedoms is an any way exceptional. A key part of government, citizenry and society is how we regulate and control individual freedoms to make society work. That's why so many of these areas are regulated and why we accept it. When the citizenry doesn't accept it the the social contract fails.

I'm genuinely interested in what I'm missing here.

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You're not missing anything, in fact you've made my point quite well. I guess it boils down in this case to who feels who is being denied individual freedom.

It's not the 50s the vast majority don't care who trans people sleep with, marry or wear. The only discussion is how we can give trans people every right without losing any hard gotten rights of biological women. Trying to stear it away from just the discussion on they small nuances is ridiculous.

Almost all on here agree trans women shouldn't play professional female sports, to some that would make us horrible transphobes, obviously to the vast majority that's nonsense.

Female prisons is obviously another that blew up. Yes we want trans to have every right they can, but sorry biological females must be protected there.

Unfortunately one group wants trans to have every right whether they effect women and the other side won't budge from wanting a few caveats, so we're stuck