The Trans Rights Debate

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I disagree. A large proportion of women will never want male bodied people doing female sports, using female refuges or being in mixed changing rooms even if males wish it. You'll disagree and the argument goes round.

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F that. Seen it too often on here to go down that route :greengrin:greengrin

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

In a generation, the likelihood is that they will be in the minority. That's the kind of societal shift that I'm suggesting, again just as it happened with LGB issues.

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One of the complaints from single sex space activists is that they are being force teamed with the T. I think the tipping point for many lesbians was being told they were akin to racists for not sleeping with men who 'identified' as women.

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Originally Posted by archie

One of the complaints from single sex space activists is that they are being force teamed with the T. I think the tipping point for many lesbians was being told they were akin to racists for not sleeping with men who 'identified' as women.

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That’s really bad. Who was telling them that?

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

That’s really bad. Who was telling them that?

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Tiktok and twitter extremists. The exact kind of people engagement algorithms promote. If you search "genital preference" on either platform, you'll find some rubbish like.

The problem is that gives them influence over less experienced trans youth. Like Andrew Tate does with young boys.

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

That’s really bad. Who was telling them that?

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A lot of it was in relation to this article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385.amp

This more polemical https://thecritic.co.uk/the-truth-will-out/

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Originally Posted by 500miles

Tiktok and twitter extremists. The exact kind of people engagement algorithms promote. If you search "genital preference" on either platform, you'll find some rubbish like.

The problem is that gives them influence over less experienced trans youth. Like Andrew Tate does with young boys.

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Ah. So just the usual social media idiots, as expected 👍

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Ah. So just the usual social media idiots, as expected 👍

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Nancy Kelley is the Chief Exec of Stonewall, not a social media random.

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Ah. So just the usual social media idiots, as expected 👍

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Andrew Tate is just a social media idiot, but the way social media works makes him a real problem, no?

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Originally Posted by 500miles

Andrew Tate is just a social media idiot, but the way social media works makes him a real problem, no?

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Absolutely - wasn’t intending to dismiss your point at all 👍

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65245498

https://news.stv.tv/politics/tory-ms...g-difficulties


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://news.stv.tv/politics/tory-ms...g-difficulties


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That'll be why he voted against the bill. 😒

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c497c665b4.jpg


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It's just fantastic that an issue that was already becoming fodder for the culture war is now about to be further exploited for political reasons. That can only be really helpful, surely?

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Originally Posted by One Day Soon

It's just fantastic that an issue that was already becoming fodder for the culture war is now about to be further exploited for political reasons. That can only be really helpful, surely?

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About to be? Too late for that now.


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https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2023...tion-35-order/

Some legal support for the SNP defending the parliament.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2023...tion-35-order/

Some legal support for the SNP defending the parliament.

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This has been said many times, and we're still waiting to hear what's to be amended in the bill from the Uk government.

"In addition, Ms Somerville stated that the Scottish Government felt it had “no option” but to pursue legal action because the reasons given by the UK Government for making the Order appear to leave little scope for amending the GRR Bill, and both Alister Jack and the UK Equalities Minister, Kemi Badenoch MP, have refused to assist either the Scottish Government or the Scottish Parliament’s committees in identifying appropriate amendments."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-65405563

Anyone who has seen this film will be baffled by these protests.

https://twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1651499028985593857?s=20

https://twitter.com/ForWomenScot/sta...200093184?s=20

I was watching a women's football match last night. SWFL East.

One of the teams had a player who stood out; not really because of her technical ability although she was a decent player but because of her sheer physicality, it was like watching Drogba or big Mixu in an under 17s game. Her team were 1-0 down, she scored 4 goals to turn the game round to 4-1, was subbed and the game ended 5-2. I had a copy of the team lines so after the game I googled this player to see why she wasn't playing at a higher level as she was the best or at least most effective player on the park by a mile. Google threw up a surprising number of results for a player at that level of women's football. Turns out she was born biologically male and has not yet fully transitioned, apparently her social media presence and some of the content has made her something of a local celebrity.

It again left me wondering how you find a solution to a situation like this that satisfies everyone. I find it difficult to argue anyone should be prevented from playing sport but then I also didn't really enjoy the spectacle of someone so physically imposing absolutely rag-dolling a young CB who looked about 18 and was on the verge of tears as she got put on her erse for the 10th time. I know physical mismatches can happen in football but this was beyond that and when the player in question was subbed the game noticeably evened up. I genuinely don't know what the solution is that is fair to all parties in such a scenario.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I was watching a women's football match last night. SWFL East.

One of the teams had a player who stood out; not really because of her technical ability although she was a decent player but because of her sheer physicality, it was like watching Drogba or big Mixu in an under 17s game. Her team were 1-0 down, she scored 4 goals to turn the game round to 4-1, was subbed and the game ended 5-2. I had a copy of the team lines so after the game I googled this player to see why she wasn't playing at a higher level as she was the best or at least most effective player on the park by a mile. Google threw up a surprising number of results for a player at that level of women's football. Turns out she was born biologically male and has not yet fully transitioned, apparently her social media presence and some of the content has made her something of a local celebrity.

It again left me wondering how you find a solution to a situation like this that satisfies everyone. I find it difficult to argue anyone should be prevented from playing sport but then I also didn't really enjoy the spectacle of someone so physically imposing absolutely rag-dolling a young CB who looked about 18 and was on the verge of tears as she got put on her erse for the 10th time. I know physical mismatches can happen in football but this was beyond that and when the player in question was subbed the game noticeably evened up. I genuinely don't know what the solution is that is fair to all parties in such a scenario.

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Is there any barrier to playing "male" Juvenile football for a female or someone who identifies as female? The scenario you describe is ridiculous, completely unsporting.

Everyone with common sense knows all male categories should be open and problem solved. Thankfully most sports are going that way, if they are good enough they will make it.

You often get female children playing the adult game in Scotlandin the lower levels. A trans female that has went through male puberty has the bone density and size so permanently damage a female.

I'm not sure how they can get pleasure from hammering girls constantly, surely sport is about the challenge. Its like me joining the 14s league and battering them and then celebrating like Ronaldo when I score

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I was watching a women's football match last night. SWFL East.

One of the teams had a player who stood out; not really because of her technical ability although she was a decent player but because of her sheer physicality, it was like watching Drogba or big Mixu in an under 17s game. Her team were 1-0 down, she scored 4 goals to turn the game round to 4-1, was subbed and the game ended 5-2. I had a copy of the team lines so after the game I googled this player to see why she wasn't playing at a higher level as she was the best or at least most effective player on the park by a mile. Google threw up a surprising number of results for a player at that level of women's football. Turns out she was born biologically male and has not yet fully transitioned, apparently her social media presence and some of the content has made her something of a local celebrity.

It again left me wondering how you find a solution to a situation like this that satisfies everyone. I find it difficult to argue anyone should be prevented from playing sport but then I also didn't really enjoy the spectacle of someone so physically imposing absolutely rag-dolling a young CB who looked about 18 and was on the verge of tears as she got put on her erse for the 10th time. I know physical mismatches can happen in football but this was beyond that and when the player in question was subbed the game noticeably evened up. I genuinely don't know what the solution is that is fair to all parties in such a scenario.

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That shouldn’t be happening and the football authorities should be acting.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

That shouldn’t be happening and the football authorities should be acting.


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He shouldn't be playing for the girls team in the first place. It shouldn't take any authorities to act.

Totally unfair on all the girls he's playing against.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I was watching a women's football match last night. SWFL East.

One of the teams had a player who stood out; not really because of her technical ability although she was a decent player but because of her sheer physicality, it was like watching Drogba or big Mixu in an under 17s game. Her team were 1-0 down, she scored 4 goals to turn the game round to 4-1, was subbed and the game ended 5-2. I had a copy of the team lines so after the game I googled this player to see why she wasn't playing at a higher level as she was the best or at least most effective player on the park by a mile. Google threw up a surprising number of results for a player at that level of women's football. Turns out she was born biologically male and has not yet fully transitioned, apparently her social media presence and some of the content has made her something of a local celebrity.

It again left me wondering how you find a solution to a situation like this that satisfies everyone. I find it difficult to argue anyone should be prevented from playing sport but then I also didn't really enjoy the spectacle of someone so physically imposing absolutely rag-dolling a young CB who looked about 18 and was on the verge of tears as she got put on her erse for the 10th time. I know physical mismatches can happen in football but this was beyond that and when the player in question was subbed the game noticeably evened up. I genuinely don't know what the solution is that is fair to all parties in such a scenario.

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Apparently there is a game that actually ended 4-2 and has now been given as a 0-3 the other way. Is this possibly the same game

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Originally Posted by 500miles

Apparently there is a game that actually ended 7-2 and has now been given as a 0-3 the other way. Is this possibly the same game

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I don't think it will be.

I was watching the game for a mate who coaches a team playing one of the teams involved in a couple of weeks and I know a coach from the opposition from midweek as well and neither have said anything about that happening.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I was watching a women's football match last night. SWFL East.

One of the teams had a player who stood out; not really because of her technical ability although she was a decent player but because of her sheer physicality, it was like watching Drogba or big Mixu in an under 17s game. Her team were 1-0 down, she scored 4 goals to turn the game round to 4-1, was subbed and the game ended 5-2. I had a copy of the team lines so after the game I googled this player to see why she wasn't playing at a higher level as she was the best or at least most effective player on the park by a mile. Google threw up a surprising number of results for a player at that level of women's football. Turns out she was born biologically male and has not yet fully transitioned, apparently her social media presence and some of the content has made her something of a local celebrity.

It again left me wondering how you find a solution to a situation like this that satisfies everyone. I find it difficult to argue anyone should be prevented from playing sport but then I also didn't really enjoy the spectacle of someone so physically imposing absolutely rag-dolling a young CB who looked about 18 and was on the verge of tears as she got put on her erse for the 10th time. I know physical mismatches can happen in football but this was beyond that and when the player in question was subbed the game noticeably evened up. I genuinely don't know what the solution is that is fair to all parties in such a scenario.

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I could get shot down for missing something here, and I concede there's no solution which will perfectly suit everyone, but I think there's 2 solutions:

1) A setup exclusively for trans-women. I would imagine there isn't enough demand to set that up for football though, but as a category I think it works for single person events (did London marathon do it recently?)

2) You play in the setup you were born into. So the woman you seen would therefore be limited to the men's football leagues.

The situation as you describe it doesn't seem fair, IMO the above two solutions are less unfair overall.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-65451979

The Stand comedy club seems to have lost its sense of humour.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...51167f69cf0b48

Good editorial.