The Trans Rights Debate

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

Could everyone in here against the GRA post their support for trans people, please?

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It's a really silly question, the two aren't linked as much as people crave them to be.

There's is undoubtedly a percentage of **** bags that are just anti trans in the uk. But when the public are polled it's in the high 90% that won't all rights for trans people bar a couple of caveats that don't detract for hard won women's rights.

If they added a few ammendments (like they already have with prisons) this would have been over months ago and out the news. I'm not against quicker GRA or lower age limits if a safe spaces ect were maintained. Thankfully most trans rights are already enshrined in law, the GRA doesn't actually change that much

This might interest some:-

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/633194

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Originally Posted by 147lothian

Exactly this, the recent disasters in The SNP all have a green source behind them, the greens have gone into government they don't like roads or building roads. The A9 promise is reneged upon which is huge in the Highland's. The GRA the failure to accept very reasonable amendments can only be explained by green pressure. The bottle return scheme, out of control under a green minister, the green tail has been wagging The SNP dog much to the detriment of government.

If you want another example of green extremism, it's not so long since the greens were accusing The SNP of transphobia.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...-talks-3284279

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I've posted elsewhere that the A9 is still being upgraded, I had personal involvement in decision making on the proposed routes of the sections between Perth and Drumochter. It's just taking longer than originally planned.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

This might interest some:-

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/633194

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Not sure how any right minded person would object to that

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Not sure how any right minded person would object to that

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The right minded aren’t the concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Must be a combination. There can be no denying the drop in the polls for both her personally and independence was due to it. It was too sharp and sudden to be anything else. She's usually so composed but I've never seen her as speechless as trying to defend Bryson in parliament. I think she was done like a kipper to be honest. Wish she'd stayed and the loons at the greens took the brunt

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Exactly this. What on paper might have struck most as a peripheral issue was so badly handled by Sturgeon that it's ended up playing a significant role in her downfall. It wasn't a here today gone tomorrow crisis as she tried to claim either. Those who could see the dangers inherent in the bill had been campaigning against it for years. By turning a deaf ear to all concerns and loading the bases with lobby groups aligned only to her own views she laid the foundations for the humiliation which followed.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Exactly this. What on paper might have struck most as a peripheral issue was so badly handled by Sturgeon that it's ended up playing a significant role in her downfall. It wasn't a here today gone tomorrow crisis as she tried to claim either. Those who could see the dangers inherent in the bill had been campaigning against it for years. By turning a deaf ear to all concerns and loading the bases with lobby groups aligned only to her own views she laid the foundations for the humiliation which followed.

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There were even a few posters on here saying back in 2019 this was going to cause splits in the SNP and cause issues. They were as usual dismissed as scaremongering. Funny old world.

People were laughing at Sturgeon and Gilruth when they could not answer those questions, when people start openly laughing at you then you are finished.

I wonder if a few weeks on the information they were after is now available and they could now answer.

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Originally Posted by James310

There were even a few posters on here saying back in 2019 this was going to cause splits in the SNP and cause issues. They were as usual dismissed as scaremongering. Funny old world.

People were laughing at Sturgeon and Gilruth when they could not answer those questions, when people start openly laughing at you then you are finished.

I wonder if a few weeks on the information they were after is now available and they could now answer.

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Her pedestal grew so high she was bound to fall off at some point. As you say when people start laughing at you, as they did with Boris, your time's up.

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Originally Posted by James310

There were even a few posters on here saying back in 2019 this was going to cause splits in the SNP and cause issues. They were as usual dismissed as scaremongering. Funny old world.

People were laughing at Sturgeon and Gilruth when they could not answer those questions, when people start openly laughing at you then you are finished.

I wonder if a few weeks on the information they were after is now available and they could now answer.

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For me the BBC Question Time team have to be commended for putting on the trans debate. Up to this point the BBC were over cautious about talking about it, this debate showed that when put to the test gender ideology just doesn't stand up to scrutiny, the audience at Kelvin Hall were laughing at Jenny Gilruth SNP MSP when she tied herself in knots.

Nicola Sturgeon also could be seen doing mental gymnastics trying to explain gender Self-ID regarding a rapist being sent to a woman only prison. Questions need to be asked now about Nicola Sturgeon's style of leadership, because if she had only listened to the nine members of her own party that broke the whip and proposed very reasonable amendments to the GRA she wouldn't be in the this position now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0cbQY0PKv4

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Originally Posted by 147lothian

For me the BBC Question Time team have to be commended for putting on the trans debate. Up to this point the BBC were over cautious about talking about it, this debate showed that when put to the test gender ideology just doesn't stand up to scrutiny, the audience at Kelvin Hall were laughing at Jenny Gilruth SNP MSP when she tied herself in knots.

Nicola Sturgeon also could be seen doing mental gymnastics trying to explain gender Self-ID regarding a rapist being sent to a woman only prison. Questions need to be asked now about Nicola Sturgeon's style of leadership, because if she had only listened to the nine members of her own party that broke the whip and proposed very reasonable amendments to the GRA she wouldn't be in the this position now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0cbQY0PKv4

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https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/nicola-sturgeon-ruled-snp-in-quasi-dictatorial-manner-and-her-resignation-leaves-scottish-independence-movement-adrift-stuart-crawford-4029812

'Quasi dictator' according to one of her former ministers.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Exactly this. What on paper might have struck most as a peripheral issue was so badly handled by Sturgeon that it's ended up playing a significant role in her downfall. It wasn't a here today gone tomorrow crisis as she tried to claim either. Those who could see the dangers inherent in the bill had been campaigning against it for years. By turning a deaf ear to all concerns and loading the bases with lobby groups aligned only to her own views she laid the foundations for the humiliation which followed.

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I wonder how much the position she took on it was influenced by Joanna Cherry being in the other canp with regards tomany of the concerns being raised. One thing can be in no doubt neither of them cared for each other - a 2 way street where not so thinly veiled barbs or, in the case of Sturgeon, ignoring the threats against Cherry's life/,wellbeing whilst very vocally condemning similar threats to those in her camp. Cherry has not given any stepping down words of thanks to her adversary. Clearly a wedge as driven as the one between Sturgeon and Salmond.

The other thing is all political careers of note end in some manner of loss - an election, public opinion, party maneouvering to satisfy ambition. There has been a pretty tight grip on dissent in the last 8 years, party controlled by Sturgeon and Murrell aided by people close to them, many also in relationships. However, that was never going to hold forever - especially if those "wheeshting for indy" didnt feel progress was being made.

There's a lot to come out I suspect over the coming months and weeks...

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The right minded aren’t the concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Qed

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I've posted elsewhere that the A9 is still being upgraded, I had personal involvement in decision making on the proposed routes of the sections between Perth and Drumochter. It's just taking longer than originally planned.

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wasn’t there an SNP MSP criticising the party last week as a section of it won’t be getting done, after commitments were made to doing it all?

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Originally Posted by McD

wasn’t there an SNP MSP criticising the party last week as a section of it won’t be getting done, after commitments were made to doing it all?

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Fergus ewing, former MSP, but the news was about a contract only having one bid and the delay in delivering the dualling. I can only think of 1 section that might not be built, the Birnam section is an engineering nightmare and there is opposition to the killiecrankie section as it impacts the battlefield.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Fergus ewing, former MSP, but the news was about a contract only having one bid and the delay in delivering the dualling. I can only think of 1 section that might not be built, the Birnam section is an engineering nightmare and there is opposition to the killiecrankie section as it impacts the battlefield.

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thank you :aok:

I think I must have got it a bit wrong, I thought he was saying that section wasn’t going ahead (something about the 1 bid not being cost effective or something along those lines)

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Agreed on that.

Edit. Just re-read the Sun piece. The headline is "Trans butcher charged...". The T word is unnecessary IMO, and only serves to help demonise an already marginalised community. Imagine if they had been described as gay, Muslim or (heaven forfend) cis.

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Now been charged with sexual assault. The Record are running with 'man' in the headline but 'transgender butcher' in the opening paragraph.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Now been charged with sexual assault. The Record are running with 'man' in the headline but 'transgender butcher' in the opening paragraph.

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Still unnecessary

Some awful, scaremongering, deeply worrying headlines today.

This debate has been 90% conducted around prisons, self spaces, conflicting rights, TERF feminism vs open house feminism. Plus a healthy dose of rapery=trans. Toxic stuff. But very little debate anymore on anti trans prejudice. Inability to get jobs, street attacks, and so on.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...rvey-2017a.pdf

It seems like a solid 20% (that pesky group again) of UK men have ‘self identified’ in polling as having some anti trans prejudice. It’s a group that ‘dare not speak its name’ though. Certainly on here, everybody seems to be signed up to the idea that being trans is OK as a life choice, it’s merely the minutiae of the policy making that folk always claim to have an issue with. Is that accurate? I’ve got to say I don’t find that very likely. Anyone want to be brave and just come out with it that trans people make you feel uncomfortable? It would be weird if no one on here was part of this 20%, wouldn’t it?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Still unnecessary

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Aye really really shocking stuff it has no relevance to his horrific crimes. Poor girl, **** knows why the police said she was safe and well if she was raped, brutal

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Some awful, scaremongering, deeply worrying headlines today.

This debate has been 90% conducted around prisons, self spaces, conflicting rights, TERF feminism vs open house feminism. Plus a healthy dose of rapery=trans. Toxic stuff. But very little debate anymore on anti trans prejudice. Inability to get jobs, street attacks, and so on.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...rvey-2017a.pdf

It seems like a solid 20% (that pesky group again) of UK men have ‘self identified’ in polling as having some anti trans prejudice. It’s a group that ‘dare not speak its name’ though. Certainly on here, everybody seems to be signed up to the idea that being trans is OK as a life choice, it’s merely the minutiae of the policy making that folk always claim to have an issue with. Is that accurate? I’ve got to say I don’t find that very likely. Anyone want to be brave and just come out with it that trans people make you feel uncomfortable? It would be weird if no one on here was part of this 20%, wouldn’t it?

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When the GRA was passed, I have to say I was unsure about it. I worried about the women's rights angle.

After the aftermath, which included that absolutely toxic discussion on BBC QT a few weeks back, I'm convinced that passing the GRA was absolutely the right thing to do.

The blocking of the Act by the Westminster Government, whether international or not, has given the green light to transphobes to spout their vile prejudice.

The furore over the prisoner was completely irrelevant to the passing of the Act.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

Some awful, scaremongering, deeply worrying headlines today.

This debate has been 90% conducted around prisons, self spaces, conflicting rights, TERF feminism vs open house feminism. Plus a healthy dose of rapery=trans. Toxic stuff. But very little debate anymore on anti trans prejudice. Inability to get jobs, street attacks, and so on.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...rvey-2017a.pdf

It seems like a solid 20% (that pesky group again) of UK men have ‘self identified’ in polling as having some anti trans prejudice. It’s a group that ‘dare not speak its name’ though. Certainly on here, everybody seems to be signed up to the idea that being trans is OK as a life choice, it’s merely the minutiae of the policy making that folk always claim to have an issue with. Is that accurate? I’ve got to say I don’t find that very likely. Anyone want to be brave and just come out with it that trans people make you feel uncomfortable? It would be weird if no one on here was part of this 20%, wouldn’t it?

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I have said many times on here that one of the key issues is the extrordinarily broad definition of trans. I genuinely think that the vast majority of people don't have a problem with people who transition. I think the issue for people is where people live as the opposite sex but only socially transition, but wish to access spaces and services which is seen as encroaching on others rights. The FM referered to people not being 'legitimately trans' - I think that was the phrase. How do you determine that?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Still unnecessary

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The local border media has him as a cross dressing transvestite. As he was using 2 profiles on social media I would be inclined to believe the local press than the record!

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Aye really really shocking stuff it has no relevance to his horrific crimes. Poor girl, **** knows why the police said she was safe and well if she was raped, brutal

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Yes, 'found safe and well' was the what they said...neither was true by the sounds of it.

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Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes

When the GRA was passed, I have to say I was unsure about it. I worried about the women's rights angle.

After the aftermath, which included that absolutely toxic discussion on BBC QT a few weeks back, I'm convinced that passing the GRA was absolutely the right thing to do.

The blocking of the Act by the Westminster Government, whether international or not, has given the green light to transphobes to spout their vile prejudice.

The furore over the prisoner was completely irrelevant to the passing of the Act.

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Exactly. This thread has mirrored the MSM in paying lip service to sympathy for trans folk. They're collateral damage in the hunt for the SNP.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

The local border media has him as a cross dressing transvestite. As he was using 2 profiles on social media I would be inclined to believe the local press than the record!

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Still unnecessary IMO. Just puts a target on the back of people with "other" lifestyles.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Still unnecessary IMO. Just puts a target on the back of people with "other" lifestyles.

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:agree: If the attacker was black, Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, white, Asian, etc, it wouldn’t be mentioned

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

Exactly. This thread has mirrored the MSM in paying lip service to sympathy for trans folk. They're collateral damage in the hunt for the SNP.

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I think people have the right to live their life as they choose. But surely you acknowledge that there is a legitimate discussion about how living that life impacts on others? As for the 'hunt for the SNP' comment, the constitution is not the only prism that people can view issues through. A number of SNP supporters are very concerned about the issue. Are they anti SNP too?

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

Exactly. This thread has mirrored the MSM in paying lip service to sympathy for trans folk. They're collateral damage in the hunt for the SNP.

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If Kate Forbes becomes the SNP leader and as expected she drops the Bill does the SNP leader become anti SNP? That's wild.

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Originally Posted by James310

If Kate Forbes becomes the SNP leader and as expected she drops the Bill does the SNP leader become anti SNP? That's wild.

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You clearly don't understand the Holyrood system. The FM, whether that be the Kate Forbes or not, does not have the unilateral power to drop any bill.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

You clearly don't understand the Holyrood system. The FM, whether that be the Kate Forbes or not, does not have the unilateral power to drop any bill.

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She just drops the court action, who can stop her when she becomes FM?