The Trans Rights Debate

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...mes-extremism/

Excellent article on these far right culture wars.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...mes-extremism/

Excellent article on these far right culture wars.


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Trying to link all opposition to GRA and trans v women's rights is as bad as linking sexual predators to trans women

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/...UvMI4bwgplTGpg

Tavistock scandal 'on a par with East German doping of athletes'.

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The Tavistock is the scandal of our time, there could be as many as 1000 families issuing law suits against the Tavistock. most would have been gender non conforming kids like a feminine boy or masculine girl, who felt like they don't fit in with their peer group, many of whom are either autistic, gay or in some cases both, some of whom would develop body dysmorphia with puberty because they don't fit in, but if they were left alone 90% would have accepted their body at 18 or 19 the majority of these kids would have grown into being well adjusted autistic or gay young adults.

The gay community will eventually wake to the majority of the kids that were being sterilized were gay, so I don't know how the LGBT alliance is going to hold under that side of reality. This story gives the example of one clinical psychologist who was "horrified" at vulnerable children being given irreversible drug treatments following referral by the Tavistock.

Children as young as 10 were referred to specialists with a view to them being prescribed puberty-blocking drugs, and others were referred with very little consultation. This was why the Tavistock was closed following the Cass report.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...nder-children/

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...mes-extremism/

Excellent article on these far right culture wars.


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It's not 'far right' to be opposed to the SG's gender bill. Absurd link to make. Unless the majority of the Scottish electorate are of a 'far right' persuasion.

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Originally Posted by 147lothian

The Tavistock is the scandal of our time, there could be as many as 1000 families issuing law suits against the Tavistock. most would have been gender non conforming kids like a feminine boy or masculine girl, who felt like they don't fit in with their peer group, many of whom are either autistic, gay or in some cases both, some of whom would develop body dysmorphia with puberty because they don't fit in, but if they were left alone 90% would have accepted their body at 18 or 19 the majority of these kids would have grown into being well adjusted autistic or gay young adults.

The gay community will eventually wake to the majority of the kids that were being sterilized were gay, so I don't know how the LGBT alliance is going to hold under that side of reality. This story gives the example of one clinical psychologist who was "horrified" at vulnerable children being given irreversible drug treatments following referral by the Tavistock.

Children as young as 10 were referred to specialists with a view to them being prescribed puberty-blocking drugs, and others were referred with very little consultation. This was why the Tavistock was closed following the Cass report.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...nder-children/

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And yet Sturgeon remained blinkered to all this.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

And yet Sturgeon remained blinkered to all this.

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What an utterly bizarre take

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Originally Posted by He's here!

It's not 'far right' to be opposed to the SG's gender bill. Absurd link to make. Unless the majority of the Scottish electorate are of a 'far right' persuasion.

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No it's not. Making political capital out of using inflammatory language is though.

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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ansphobic-hate

Trans link to the recent child murder now one of the lines of inquiry. It wouldn’t be a surprise in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ansphobic-hate

Trans link to the recent child murder now one of the lines of inquiry. It wouldn’t be a surprise in the slightest.

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I found the initial response from the police totally baffling. I even went back to double check articles from a day or two ago and they were stating it wasn't a hate crime. Now, shock horror, they are checking that angle. Why they would rule it out initially I can't understand.

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Originally Posted by Mr Grieves

What an utterly bizarre take

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How so? What WAS bizarre was Sturgeon's take on the Cass findings. Her implausible view seems to be that it has no relevance to Scottish children. As I mentioned earlier, NHS England has now dramatically shifted the way it plans to attend to children with gender dysphoria, the emphasis being on the risks associated with inappropriate social transition and the importance of doing so on a case-by-case basis with medical supervision. Sturgeon, on the other hand, is attempting to open up the ultimate form of social transition with no clinical input whatsoever. Discredited campaiging charities such as Mermaids have for years succeed in persuading the NHS to adopt an affirmative approach to gender dysphoria, insisting it is always an indicator of a fixed trans identity and setting many children on the road to irreversible medical treatment. As well as dismissing the concerns of the UN's special rapporteur on this issue (among numerous others associated with her proposed reforms) Sturgeon failed to listen to the concerns of young people who received terrible care from the NHS in Scotland and now regret their transition. It's little wonder that the whole sorry mess has come back to bite her big time.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-care-scandal/

'Sturgeon told to stop ignoring damaging NHS care offered to trans children in Scotland'.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...box=1676396626


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Originally Posted by Paul1642

In short No.

Can’t drink, can’t smoke, can’t leave home without parental consent, cant gamble, can’t get a credit card, can’t get a mortgage, can’t drive, if they work a minimum wage job they get paid near enough 50% the wage of an adult doing the same job, can’t get a tattoo, can’t be interviewed by the police without an appropriate adult present, can’t serve on a jury, can’t write a will. can’t marry, can’t serve in the armed forces (can join with parental consent but basically in an education only role until 18), can’t watch porn, can’t buy fireworks, can’t vote (unless it suits the government on special occasions), and get special treatment at court including for the most serious of crimes. Infact a 16 Y/O can’t even view half the films at the cinema or buy the latest call duty.

Why are any of these things more serious than medial consent?

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Just to keep us right, in Scotland 16 year olds can leave home without parental consent, can write a will, can get married and can vote in every election other than a UK general election.

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

Just to keep us right, in Scotland 16 year olds can leave home without parental consent, can write a will, can get married and can vote in every election other than a UK general election.

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Yet are classed as children in court.

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Originally Posted by Crunchie

Yet are classed as children in court.

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Completely off topic but talking of children in court I'm glad to see this utter ****bag got the severest sentence permitted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-64648815

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Completely off topic but talking of children in court I'm glad to see this utter ****bag got the severest sentence permitted;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-64648815

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Agreed, his pals all seemed to have got off lightly.

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Originally Posted by Crunchie

Yet are classed as children in court.

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What do you mean by that?

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Originally Posted by 147lothian

The Tavistock is the scandal of our time, there could be as many as 1000 families issuing law suits against the Tavistock. most would have been gender non conforming kids like a feminine boy or masculine girl, who felt like they don't fit in with their peer group, many of whom are either autistic, gay or in some cases both, some of whom would develop body dysmorphia with puberty because they don't fit in, but if they were left alone 90% would have accepted their body at 18 or 19 the majority of these kids would have grown into being well adjusted autistic or gay young adults.

The gay community will eventually wake to the majority of the kids that were being sterilized were gay, so I don't know how the LGBT alliance is going to hold under that side of reality. This story gives the example of one clinical psychologist who was "horrified" at vulnerable children being given irreversible drug treatments following referral by the Tavistock.

Children as young as 10 were referred to specialists with a view to them being prescribed puberty-blocking drugs, and others were referred with very little consultation. This was why the Tavistock was closed following the Cass report.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...nder-children/

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-golden-rule-for-scotlands-tavistock-see-nothing-say-nothing-think-nothing-rcdbh57qf

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-golden-rule-for-scotlands-tavistock-see-nothing-say-nothing-think-nothing-rcdbh57qf

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The issue is dead in Scotland now. It’s a victory for the culture warriors. Congrats.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The issue is dead in Scotland now. It’s a victory for the culture warriors. Congrats.


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Lee Anderson will be thrilled and looking to learn lessons

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The issue is dead in Scotland now. It’s a victory for the culture warriors. Congrats.


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The thread's about wider issues than just the SG's gender bill/ Sturgeon's poll tax fiasco...but from a Scottish perspective there remain serious concerns about Sandyford's emulation of the discredited Tavistock practices. A step in the right direction is their closure of the service to new patients:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23321587.sandyford-gender-identity-clinic-closed-new-patients/

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Originally Posted by He's here!

The thread's about wider issues than just the SG's gender bill/ Sturgeon's poll tax fiasco...but from a Scottish perspective there remain serious concerns about Sandyford's emulation of the discredited Tavistock practices. A step in the right direction is their closure of the service to new patients:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23321587.sandyford-gender-identity-clinic-closed-new-patients/

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The action is for staffing and funding reasons, not policy or ideological ones.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...064051bbcd95f4

SG bill looks set to be ditched altogether.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...064051bbcd95f4

SG bill looks set to be ditched altogether.

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That's shocking if true. Could have made some amendments to the bill as opposed to abandoning a marginalised section of society.

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

That's shocking if true. Could have made some amendments to the bill as opposed to abandoning a marginalised section of society.

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I've said a couple of times on this thread that I don't know enough about the Bill to give an opinion on it but definitely feel that ditching it completely would give out all the wrong signals.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...064051bbcd95f4

SG bill looks set to be ditched altogether.

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Fare enough. It’s been passed by the parliament. It’s on the UK governments desk now.


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Originally Posted by He's here!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-care-scandal/

'Sturgeon told to stop ignoring damaging NHS care offered to trans children in Scotland'.

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When you get yourself into a hole the best thing to do is stop digging. Barrister Simon Myerside QC has predicted a police investigation into the Tavistock by June 2023

https://twitter.com/SCynic1/status/1552776070352470016

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

That's shocking if true. Could have made some amendments to the bill as opposed to abandoning a marginalised section of society.

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Or a common sense solution to a hopelessly flawed piece of legislation which, if anything, would have undermined trans rights?

Sturgeon must privately wish it had never seen the light of day. She may have originally believed it would burnish her legacy but it's ended up being a key factor in bringing her down.

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

I've said a couple of times on this thread that I don't know enough about the Bill to give an opinion on it but definitely feel that ditching it completely would give out all the wrong signals.

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Getting it out of the headlines, which have been so relentlessly negative and damaging towards the SG, is likely to outweigh concerns about what signals abandoning it gives out.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Or a common sense solution to a hopelessly flawed piece of legislation which, if anything, would have undermined trans rights?

Sturgeon must privately wish it had never seen the light of day. She may have originally believed it would burnish her legacy but it's ended up being a key factor in bringing her down.

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This is known as the amendments I mentioned to include more safeguards. Why do you keep referencing one politician, it had cross party support?